Re: Pay the obese to lose weight

[Guest guest]

What happened to the idea of helping those who help themselves. This is sad.

Carson Wood.

Westbrook, ME USA.

Pay the obese to lose weight

The below may be of interest:

Pay the obese to lose weight, says study

21:00 09 December 2008 by Jim Giles

The focus of the next diet fad might be cash rather than

carbohydrates. Volpp of the University of Pennsylvania in

Philadelphia found that obese people offered a financial reward for

every kilogram shed lost more weight during a 16-week trial than

those given standard diet advice.

The drawback? Like other weight-loss methods, many of the

participants put the pounds back on once the programme ended. To

achieve longer-lasting results the monthly payments, some totalling

several hundred dollars, might have to be made for longer periods.

Volpp's results mean that obesity may join the list of social

maladies that can be addressed using financial incentives. Previous

experiments have shown that smokers and cocaine addicts can be weaned

off their habits by paying them to stay drug-free. Incentives have

also successfully been used to ensure that parents in developing

countries send their children to school.

One of the biggest incentives schemes ever run in a rich nation got

underway last year in New York. Over 5000 families are being studied

to see if cash incentives can improve the rate at which children

receive regular health check ups and adults attend work training

courses.

Journal reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, vol

300, p 2631

===================

[Guest guest]

Just one more example of being " bailed out. " Make bad loans -

government should help. Poor business model and poor car design -

government should help. Get fat - someone else should help me. Too

tired and hung over - I should get paid for my troubles.

Mark Ward

Silverdale, WA

________________________________

From: Supertraining

[mailto:Supertraining ] On Behalf Of Carson Wood

Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:22 AM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Pay the obese to lose weight

What happened to the idea of helping those who help themselves. This is

sad.

Carson Wood.

Westbrook, ME USA.

Pay the obese to lose weight

The below may be of interest:

Pay the obese to lose weight, says study

21:00 09 December 2008 by Jim Giles

The focus of the next diet fad might be cash rather than

carbohydrates. Volpp of the University of Pennsylvania in

Philadelphia found that obese people offered a financial reward for

every kilogram shed lost more weight during a 16-week trial than

those given standard diet advice.

The drawback? Like other weight-loss methods, many of the

participants put the pounds back on once the programme ended. To

achieve longer-lasting results the monthly payments, some totalling

several hundred dollars, might have to be made for longer periods.

Volpp's results mean that obesity may join the list of social

maladies that can be addressed using financial incentives. Previous

experiments have shown that smokers and cocaine addicts can be weaned

off their habits by paying them to stay drug-free. Incentives have

also successfully been used to ensure that parents in developing

countries send their children to school.

One of the biggest incentives schemes ever run in a rich nation got

underway last year in New York. Over 5000 families are being studied

to see if cash incentives can improve the rate at which children

receive regular health check ups and adults attend work training

courses.

Journal reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, vol

300, p 2631

===================

[Guest guest]

I'm just a layman, but it sounds to me like they are replacing the nebulous

rewards of " better health " and " better appearance " with something more

immediate and tangible. Personally, I don¹t think great strides will be made

toward helping the obese until medicine can regulate the physiological

forces that control appetite.

I can say from experience that restricting calories can be extremely

physically uncomfortable. I don't buy the idea that obese people simply have

no willpower to help themselves. And, environment may be part of it for some

people, but around here you can drive for miles and never see a restaurant,

and there are still plenty of heavy people.

Lynn Worth

Sparta NC USA

> What happened to the idea of helping those who help themselves. This is sad.

>

> Carson Wood.

> Westbrook, ME USA.

>

> Pay the obese to lose weight

>

>

> The below may be of interest:

>

> Pay the obese to lose weight, says study

> 21:00 09 December 2008 by Jim Giles

>

> The focus of the next diet fad might be cash rather than

> carbohydrates. Volpp of the University of Pennsylvania in

> Philadelphia found that obese people offered a financial reward for

> every kilogram shed lost more weight during a 16-week trial than

> those given standard diet advice.

>

> The drawback? Like other weight-loss methods, many of the

> participants put the pounds back on once the programme ended. To

> achieve longer-lasting results the monthly payments, some totalling

> several hundred dollars, might have to be made for longer periods.

>

> Volpp's results mean that obesity may join the list of social

> maladies that can be addressed using financial incentives. Previous

> experiments have shown that smokers and cocaine addicts can be weaned

> off their habits by paying them to stay drug-free. Incentives have

> also successfully been used to ensure that parents in developing

> countries send their children to school.

>

> One of the biggest incentives schemes ever run in a rich nation got

> underway last year in New York. Over 5000 families are being studied

> to see if cash incentives can improve the rate at which children

> receive regular health check ups and adults attend work training

> courses.

>

> Journal reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, vol

> 300, p 2631

>

> ===================

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Modify/cancel your subscription at:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

>

> Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you

> wish them to be published!

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sure that paying people to lose weight works. However, I doubt that

government programs that provide financial incentives for weight loss would

impact health care costs, longevity, or the incidence of type 2 diabetes or

heart disease. The program would end up as another government boondoggle. People

would probably gain weight so they could get government subsidies for weight

loss.

People have to take responsibility for their health care. I don't see droves of

people walking or running in the park or on city streets. With the poor economy,

gym memberships are falling. Until obese people follow at least the minimum

exercise and diet recommendations, we should follow the advice of Ebenezer

Scrooge: " Let them die and decrease the surplus population. "

Tom Fahey

California State University, Chico

=============================

Re: Pay the obese to lose weight

What happened to the idea of helping those who help themselves. This is sad.

Carson Wood.

Westbrook, ME USA.

Pay the obese to lose weight

The below may be of interest:

Pay the obese to lose weight, says study

21:00 09 December 2008 by Jim Giles

The focus of the next diet fad might be cash rather than

carbohydr

ates. Volpp of the University of Pennsylvania in

Philadelphia found that obese people offered a financial reward for

every kilogram shed lost more weight during a 16-week trial than

those given standard diet advice.

The drawback? Like other weight-loss methods, many of the

participants put the pounds back on once the programme ended. To

achieve longer-lasting results the monthly payments, some totalling

several hundred dollars, might have to be made for longer periods.

Volpp's results mean that obesity may join the list of social

maladies that can be addressed using financial incentives. Previous

experiments have shown that smokers and cocaine addicts can be weaned

off their habits by paying them to stay drug-free. Incentives have

also successfully been used to ensure that parents in developing

countries send their children to school.

One of the biggest incentives schemes ever run in a rich nation got

underway last year in New York. Over 5000 families are being studied

to see if cash incentives can improve the rate at which children

receive regular health check ups and adults attend work training

courses.

Journal reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, vol

300, p 2631

===================

[Guest guest]

> One of the biggest incentives schemes ever run in a rich nation got

> underway last year in New York. Over 5000 families are being studied

> to see if cash incentives can improve the rate at which children

> receive regular health check ups and adults attend work training

> courses

Ahhh the beauty of the mundane over the complex.

The only " change " concept worth its salt is " immediate gratification "

and anticiption of same --- either in " implicit " (sub/un/non/

conscious) or " explicit " attended to conscious awareness.. Folks can

go on about

" delayed gratifications " and " will power-choice " and such but when the

grains fall the " anticipation of benefit " is the seed that will grow.

Thanks for bringing reality to, as some wise soul on this list

said -- " don't make all of this to complex " (words to that effect).

Jerry Telle

Lakewood CO USA

[Guest guest]

,

My opinion is that the guidelines the insurance companies are using to

set rates were determined based on the health of the average American,

which we know is pretty pathetic. The BMI index is great for the

average Joe or Jane who may or may not do some some sort of exercise

for 30 minutes per day. We as athletes cannot fit into these

guidelines and maintain our health simultaneously. We are outside

the confidence levels of their curve and they have no financial reason

to make exceptions for us. We chose our lifestyles, life is not fair,

and we need to look at this as the price we pay for being athletes.

Most of us pay a financial price for something in our lives where we

are not considered normal. Fighting for fairness is expensive, time

consuming, draining, and takes focus away from our livelihoods.

Sometimes it's worth the fight and sometimes not, depending on what

makes you personally happy. I've heard the expression " CODB " , which

means Cost of Doing Business. This is what I say to myself when I run

into these situations.

I would love to see a change to the guidelines so we are included in

the definition of " healthy population " but I fear we (the people in

this group who are discussing this) may need to instigate it ourselves

because we are the only population that cares. This will cost time,

money and take focus away from our livelihoods.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY

>

> > The underwriter told me it was SOLELY MY BODYWEIGHT and that I could

> > undertake a medical review at MY expense and they do NOT reverse

> > these decisions.

>

> hi DD,

>

> So I'm guessing the next step is finding out exactly;

> 1. what criteria the right hand of god uses to control your life,

> 2. what the cost is,

> 3. if there is any other possibility of appeal,(not likely)

> 4. if exceptional blood characteristics and a winsome attitude would

> sway said inquisitioners?

>

> Jerry Telle

> Lakewood CO USA

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think they want their cake and to eat it too - and they'll cheerfully rob me

just so I can protect my own ass(ets) sigh.

The final quote is now a full 50% upcharge from the preferred rate by the way...

for the cheapest plan! All for not weighing 185.

I'm very sorry to read of your health difficulties and I hope you find good

solutions for this in the coming year. The more I hear from people, the more

determined I am to continue in the only way I know to stay healthy.

If anybody hears of a nice class action suit on this topic that I can leap

into....or a good economy fare to Sweden?

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

Hello (Deadliftdiva),

The insurance problem is a topic that really irks me also. I am an

endurance person -- run, swim, bike. 5'3, weight between 130-135.

This is somewhere around the very high end of " normal " but not yet

obese. My body fat is dangerously low. The scale says 12%, but I

haven't had a menstrual period in many years and was diagnosed with

osteoporosis several years ago. I am now age 46. Also have lots of

trouble with upper respiratory infections and have had a hip fracture.

I've been told that I need to increase fat / muscle ratio, but that

is not easy to do while maintaining my active lifestyle. All of this

has cost our insurance lots of money and they never bat an eyelash

because I am not yet in the " obese " range. These insurance people

are complete idiots. I would say they are out to make money but in my

case they are losing all that they save on you and they are too stupid

to know the difference.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY USA

> >

> > > Sigh. I just went 10 rounds with my health insurance carrier

again.

> > > Being fit and athletic but being 5'9 " 220 lbs = a 25% upcharge. I

> > > can weigh 185, they'll " permit " me to do that, but not be the fit,

> > > lean and powerful drug free athlete I am. Nothing is persuasive to

> > > them by the way.

> > >

> > > I was told I could submit a protest at my own expense, copy

records

> > > and argue - but that it was not likely they would rule in my favor

> >

> > Greetings DD (deadlifting diva)

> >

> > Are there not other criteria from which you could appeal? blood

> > pressure, blood profiles?

> >

> > I agree with their approach but someone needs to be aware that only

> > 68% of us fit into the first standard deviation. This has been a

> > problem forever with standardized systems. If your blood profiles

and

> > pressures are off we can fix that in about 3 months leaving you as

big

> > strong and beautiful as ever. If % bodyfat is a problem (it shouldnt

> > be) that takes more doing --the irony meaning use of anabolics!!

> >

> > Are there any studies correlating % bodyfat, blood pressure-

profiles

> > and CV-anaerobic efficency?

> >

> > Jerry Telle

> > Lakewood CO USA

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Gloria! 95% of the masses are clueless and that is who society will

always choose to govern and regulate.

If you are in the other 5% population group, you always be on your own.

Jay

Pasadena, CA

Re: Pay the obese to lose weight

,

My opinion is that the guidelines the insurance companies are using to

set rates were determined based on the health of the average American,

which we know is pretty pathetic. The BMI index is great for the

average Joe or Jane who may or may not do some some sort of exercise

for 30 minutes per day. We as athletes cannot fit into these

guidelines and maintain our health simultaneously. We are outside

the confidence levels of their curve and they have no financial reason

to make exceptions for us. We chose our lifestyles, life is not fair,

and we need to look at this as the price we pay for being athletes.

Most of us pay a financial price for something in our lives where we

are not considered normal. Fighting for fairness is expensive, time

consuming, draining, and takes focus away from our livelihoods.

Sometimes it's worth the fight and sometimes not, depending on what

makes you personally happy. I've heard the expression " CODB " , which

means Cost of Doing Business. This is what I say to myself when I run

into these situations.

I would love to see a change to the guidelines so we are included in

the definition of " healthy population " but I fear we (the people in

this group who are discussing this) may need to instigate it ourselves

because we are the only population that cares. This will cost time,

money and take focus away from our livelihoods.

Gloria Bach

Willseyville NY

>

> > The underwriter told me it was SOLELY MY BODYWEIGHT and that I could

> > undertake a medical review at MY expense and they do NOT reverse

> > these decisions.

>

> hi DD,

>

> So I'm guessing the next step is finding out exactly;

> 1. what criteria the right hand of god uses to control your life,

> 2. what the cost is,

> 3. if there is any other possibility of appeal,(not likely)

> 4. if exceptional blood characteristics and a winsome attitude would

> sway said inquisitioners?

>

> Jerry Telle

> Lakewood CO USA

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I have no right to say anything, being what I am, but none the less,

I'm looking at a United of Omaha Life Insurance Company applicantion as I

type, and the upper limit for them for a person 5 ft 9 inches is 277

pounds. Point being that you may want to shop around.

thanks,

Doherty

Cypress, Texas

> Well said Gloria! 95% of the masses are clueless and that is who society

> will always choose to govern and regulate.

>

> If you are in the other 5% population group, you always be on your own.

>

> Jay

> Pasadena, CA

> Re: Pay the obese to lose weight

>

> ,

> My opinion is that the guidelines the insurance companies are using to

> set rates were determined based on the health of the average American,

> which we know is pretty pathetic. The BMI index is great for the

> average Joe or Jane who may or may not do some some sort of exercise

> for 30 minutes per day. We as athletes cannot fit into these

> guidelines and maintain our health simultaneously. We are outside

> the confidence levels of their curve and they have no financial reason

> to make exceptions for us. We chose our lifestyles, life is not fair,

> and we need to look at this as the price we pay for being athletes.

> Most of us pay a financial price for something in our lives where we

> are not considered normal. Fighting for fairness is expensive, time

> consuming, draining, and takes focus away from our livelihoods.

> Sometimes it's worth the fight and sometimes not, depending on what

> makes you personally happy. I've heard the expression " CODB " , which

> means Cost of Doing Business. This is what I say to myself when I run

> into these situations.

>

> I would love to see a change to the guidelines so we are included in

> the definition of " healthy population " but I fear we (the people in

> this group who are discussing this) may need to instigate it ourselves

> because we are the only population that cares. This will cost time,

> money and take focus away from our livelihoods.

> Gloria Bach

> Willseyville NY

>

> >

> > > The underwriter told me it was SOLELY MY BODYWEIGHT and that I could

> > > undertake a medical review at MY expense and they do NOT reverse

> > > these decisions.

> >

> > hi DD,

> >

> > So I'm guessing the next step is finding out exactly;

> > 1. what criteria the right hand of god uses to control your life,

> > 2. what the cost is,

> > 3. if there is any other possibility of appeal,(not likely)

> > 4. if exceptional blood characteristics and a winsome attitude would

> > sway said inquisitioners?

> >

> > Jerry Telle

> > Lakewood CO USA

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am going to put my economics hat on for a second.I agree and

disagree with you Gloria. I agree that the BMI is an ok(no where near

great) guide for the typical person. As for the argument of it's the

price you pay for being an athlete or the cost of doing business, I am

not so sure. What would tend to happen is people would do a

cost-benefit analysis (maybe not on paper but in their head as they

continue to pay more and more money out of pocket). This means that if

the perceived benefit(winning competitions) becomes worth less than

the costs one will modify their behavior(most of us are not striking

it rich doing what we do, we do it because we love it). So if they are

weightlifters or power lifters they may forgo the higher weight

classes and restrict their progress because going any further may be

to expensive and the sport suffers. I can see where this could turn

into a real problem if public policy is hell bent on charging their

citizens per pound(or kg) as opposed to their actual fitness. It

unfortunately is the athletes and their trainers who are going to have

to fight the fight if this becomes an en vogue political

movement(which I doubt because politicians don't like to isolate that

big of a voter base).

Tim da Silva

Attleboro,Mass.

> >

> > > The underwriter told me it was SOLELY MY BODYWEIGHT and that I

could

> > > undertake a medical review at MY expense and they do NOT reverse

> > > these decisions.

> >

> > hi DD,

> >

> > So I'm guessing the next step is finding out exactly;

> > 1. what criteria the right hand of god uses to control your life,

> > 2. what the cost is,

> > 3. if there is any other possibility of appeal,(not likely)

> > 4. if exceptional blood characteristics and a winsome attitude would

> > sway said inquisitioners?

> >

> > Jerry Telle

> > Lakewood CO USA

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

From Dr. Mercola's newslatter:

The Route to Obesity Passes Through Your Tongue

obesity, taste, taste buds, sugar, bitter, tongue, leptin,

insulinAccording to neuroscientists, obesity gradually numbs the taste

sensation of rats to sweet foods, and drives them to consume larger

and sweeter meals. There is apparently a critical link between taste

and body weight.

Previous studies have suggested that obese persons are less sensitive

to sweet taste, but little is known about the specific differences in

sense of taste between obese and lean individuals. Researchers

investigated these differences by studying the taste responses of two

strains of rats.

Compared to the lean and healthy LETO rats, the taste responses in

OLETF rats mirror those in obese humans. These rats tend to

chronically overeat due to a missing satiety signal, and they become

obese and develop diabetes. The obese rats also show an increased

preference for sweet foods.

The researchers implanted electrodes in the rodents' brains to record

the firing of nerve cells when the rats' tongues were exposed to

various tastes. The OLETF rats had about 50 percent fewer neurons

firing when their tongues were exposed to sucrose, suggesting that

obese rats are overall less sensitive to sucrose.

Sources:

* Science Daily November 26, 2008

* Brain Research Bulletin January 31, 2008;75(1):70-6

Some food for thought,

W.G.

Ubermensch Sports Consultancy

San Diego, CA

> > >

> > > > Sigh. I just went 10 rounds with my health insurance carrier

> again.

> > > > Being fit and athletic but being 5'9 " 220 lbs = a 25% upcharge. I

> > > > can weigh 185, they'll " permit " me to do that, but not be the

fit,

> > > > lean and powerful drug free athlete I am. Nothing is

persuasive to

> > > > them by the way.

> > > >

> > > > I was told I could submit a protest at my own expense, copy

> records

> > > > and argue - but that it was not likely they would rule in my favor

> > >

> > > Greetings DD (deadlifting diva)

> > >

> > > Are there not other criteria from which you could appeal? blood

> > > pressure, blood profiles?

> > >

> > > I agree with their approach but someone needs to be aware that only

> > > 68% of us fit into the first standard deviation. This has been a

> > > problem forever with standardized systems. If your blood profiles

> and

> > > pressures are off we can fix that in about 3 months leaving you as

> big

> > > strong and beautiful as ever. If % bodyfat is a problem (it

shouldnt

> > > be) that takes more doing --the irony meaning use of anabolics!!

> > >

> > > Are there any studies correlating % bodyfat, blood pressure-

> profiles

> > > and CV-anaerobic efficency?

> > >

> > > Jerry Telle

> > > Lakewood CO USA

> >

>