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Posted
Posted

HI ,

I have a friend who had something similar, but

instead of a tens type unit his is something that

shoots morphine to the spinal area, but still some

thing that is inserted into his body.

It took something like this to give him back his

life. He fell out of a Helicopter where he became

injured. He use to be on a lot of medication prior

and now that he has this inserted he is doing well.

Maybe a morphine pump is an option, and it isn't

enough morphine that reacts to the rest of his system

just enough to effect the spinal cord pain.

I don't know which is the better choice, I would

probably go the tens unit inserted....

I know I use the external tens unit, and it helps

when I have it cranked up to full volume.

Wow, my heart goes out to you and I pray

there is a really good answer and Dr. who will

get you through the other side of this.

I am going to have disc replacement in just over

a week.

http://joanneupdate.blogspot.com/

Blessings to you,

Joanne

Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hey All,

My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests done

and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each level

but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see a

pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to help

the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I understand

it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here have

one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

Thank you for reading my plea for help.

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Posted
Posted

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi

I read your email to and that you work with spine surgeons.

I had a massive back spasm in summer of 2003 (though I had small ones from the

early 90's to the big one in 2003.)

Im now 44.

For the last 2 years Ive been in pain about every single day.

2007 I had #5 epidurals that seemed to work at the L5 nerve root.

This summer I have had #2 and they arent working, only giving me more pain.

My MRI says I have a small tear at L3-4 and a small central herniation at L4-5.

Doesnt show anything else. Yet I continue to have pain in my low back to my

right sacrum, right sciatica every day, decreased flexibility in right big toe

as well as ankle relex and fasiculations in 2,3 toes on right foot.

So far the one Neurosurgoen I have seen at town says if I can live with it

I should. He said the herniation is very small. But than he said they can

really cause problems too.

He said the same thing you have. That you trade one set of problems for

another.

I have a consult with another Neurosurgeon at town- a guy who is the big

time local king of the minimally invasive surgery.

Dr. Faheem Sandhu. Dont know if you have heard of him.

Anyway- that appt is in another week.

Your right- the pain is terrible, wears on you day and in. I dont live life

like I used to, not very active, have to take pain pills first thing in the

morning as the morning is the worse. Ice packs mornings and evenings .... like

this for over a year now.

Is a Cat scan any better than an MRI? I have had 5 MRI's since 2006.

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

, a CAT scan is useful if you have had a fusion with instrumentation (ie:

screws, etc). The MRI uses magnets to see what's inside you, if you have

hardware it will blur the image of your spine at that area and will not be

clear. That is why they would use CT. If you don't have hardware, you shouldn't

need a CT.

It sounds quite likely to me that you may have trigger points. Do some research

on them on the internet and there's a great book called " The Trigger Point

Therapy Workbook " that shows you how to treat them yourself. The deal with

trigger points is that a muscle " spasm " occurs in a muscle that is involved in

an injured part of your body. They can couse incredible pain and muscle spasms.

Just because you had a scan that shows you have some pathology in your back,

does not mean it is the source of your pain. Did you know that half the

population with no pain would show some sort of disk issue if scanned? Your doc

is right on when he says this and you can trust that he is saying this for your

own good. He is more concerned for you than his wallet. He sees the truth day in

and day out when patients return to him with pain after the surgery. Once you

have surgery on a disk, it becomes dried out and " degenerative " and will become

unstable which is when they do

a fusion. Some docs like my own will do the fusion at the time of a diskectomy

because he knows the likelihood of you needing them in the future is so likely,

he's saving you the pain and trouble.

Read up on trigger points and consider trying that route. If you go to a pain

clinic, they can do " trigger point injections " which sort of " shock " the spasm

into calming. It feels great after, but it isn't a permanent fix. You can

permanently get rid of them with home trigger point therapy.

Good luck to you and let me know if I can help in any way.

Take Care,

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi Tracey

My massage therapists works on those all the time.

it is helpful, it is painful.

My Phsyiatrist MD thinks its the tears in the Disc that is causing the pain.

He says the leak a caustic material which burns the nerves.

The way they treat those is no picnic either.

thanks for your insight.

wendy

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

the Physiatrist wants me to have a Discogram to check the 2 discs and see if

indeed they are the culprit.

Not looking forward to that.

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

He is correct in that. Tha annulus is highly innervated and the disk material is

caustic and can be painful. I discogram is no fun, but it shouldn't be as bad

for you as it was for me. mine was done by my neuro surg and interventional

readiologist. he gave me a spinal headache which is caused by puncturing the

dura. It's quite difficult to achieve that doing a discogram. he was a moron. He

also refused to admit he did it and sent me out of his office on a stretcher and

vomiting. He gave me all kinds of pills to shut me up. That asshole!

I would listen to your surgeon. He sounds like he knows his stuff and is looking

out for your best interest. Your body may heal itself, although it may take some

time. If you have surgery, you are opening Pandora's box and there are no

guarantees. I know you hurt, oh yes I do. Try to practice some meditation or

something. I was able to use breathing to relax my spasms when they were so bad.

My massage therapist told me that and it really does help.

---

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi

the woman I am going to is a Physiatrist who does these all the time in the

group practice. Everyone in the practice says she is very good. Doctor

Wittenburg (the doc) told me she doenst pressurize it all the way if she can

tell its a problem disc.

Question- do you ever see success stories?

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Posted
Posted

Sadly, I haven't ever seen one. But I'm sure there are some? I hate to sound all

doom and gloom, really I do. But , the sad thing is...I would give most

anything to be you with what we call a " virgin back " , never been touched. Really

I would. If you literally do everything you can, and stay healthy, keeo your

weight down and keep a strong core, I guarantee you will have a much better

outlook. I know it sounds cliche, but if you swim and work out gently and DO the

physical therapy exercizes every day of your life, the odds that you will get

better are outstanding! Swimming is a back saver. But you MUST take this

seriously. Even when you don't feel like it and even if you feel better...your

future depends on it sweetie! If you are overweight at all...you would not

believe the difference losing weight will make on your pain. I am as serious as

I can possibly be. If you haven't had surgery, you have the best chance of all

of us at getting better. I

would swear it on my children's lives!---

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

Hello ,

I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back pain

sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in every

aspect of spine everything!

First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt

to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery as

it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

your surgeon.

Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a spine

stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS unit

only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never

should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have worked

in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you

want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me horrendous

pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last week

to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not

go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this

doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can prove

that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you

may have a chance.

Good luck to you dear--

>

> Hey All,

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the

> opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

done

> and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

level

> but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see

a

> pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

help

> the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too,

> the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

understand

> it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

have

> one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> Thank you for reading my plea for help.

>

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

I have to second what is telling you! I wish I had known then

what I know now! I NEVER would have had the two back surgeries! Even

the Neurosurgeon that I went to see agreed with me!!! Sad, but true!

>

> Sadly, I haven't ever seen one. But I'm sure there are some? I hate

to sound all doom and gloom, really I do. But , the sad thing

is...I would give most anything to be you with what we call a " virgin

back " , never been touched. Really I would. If you literally do

everything you can, and stay healthy, keeo your weight down and keep

a strong core, I guarantee you will have a much better outlook. I

know it sounds cliche, but if you swim and work out gently and DO the

physical therapy exercizes every day of your life, the odds that you

will get better are outstanding! Swimming is a back saver. But you

MUST take this seriously. Even when you don't feel like it and even

if you feel better...your future depends on it sweetie! If you are

overweight at all...you would not believe the difference losing

weight will make on your pain. I am as serious as I can possibly be.

If you haven't had surgery, you have the best chance of all of us at

getting better. I

> would swear it on my children's lives!---

>

>

>

> Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

>

> Hello ,

>

> I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back

pain

> sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

> specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in

every

> aspect of spine everything!

>

> First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever

attempt

> to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

> xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

> necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery

as

> it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

> your surgeon.

>

> Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a

spine

> stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

> felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

> substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

> electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

> does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

> gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

> surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

>

> If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

> Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

> only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

> electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

> stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

> deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS

unit

> only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

> wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

> relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

> inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

> impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

> minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

> help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

>

> I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

> too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

> operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

> have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk?

Did

> you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

> just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

>

> In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was.

Never

> should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

> surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have

worked

> in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

> surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

> client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

> buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

> The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

> way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting,

you

> want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

> pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

>

> I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me

horrendous

> pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last

week

> to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do

not

> go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if

this

> doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

>

> I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

> is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

> hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

> become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

> lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can

prove

> that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently,

you

> may have a chance.

>

> Good luck to you dear--

>

>

> >

> > Hey All,

> > My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all

the

> > opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short

story

> > is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> > later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> > because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> > that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

> done

> > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

> level

> > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> > than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now

see

> a

> > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

> help

> > the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> > Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict

too,

> > the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

> understand

> > it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

> have

> > one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> > Thank you for reading my plea for help.

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I am listening to you all- I am trying to pursue alternate therapies- Ive been

doing Accupuncture for over a year, massage for 4 years, PT off and on since

2006- epidural/ nerve blocks...

the problem areas I suffer from are a chronic SI joint dysfunction which just

gets stuck on the right side and jams the sacrum up and out and that pain is

terrible, because of that the Physical Medicine Docs think I developed the

herniated L5 disc. But they really dont know.

So I have sciatica on the right from the disc as well as the SI joint- L5 and S1

nerves are irritated.

Right now its the SI joint- Sacrum that is driving me off the wall.

I have seen some cases where people get their SI joints radiofrequencied. I

wonder about that as there are quite a few nerves that come out of the sacrum.

At any rate Im supposed to have a Discogram to confirm or not if the pain is

Discal in origin.

The Physical Medicine Docs have a variety of most un-fun sounding things they

can do on an outpatient basis for the disc and pain management.

so still trying to do the right things.

wendy

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

>

> Hello ,

>

> I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough time. I'm a 15 year back

pain

> sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical technician with one

> specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite knowledgeable in

every

> aspect of spine everything!

>

> First off...let me just tell you that no surgeon should ever

attempt

> to remove hardware based on an xray saying the fusion is good. An

> xray is not enough as any respectable surgeon will tell you. It's

> necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to agreeing to do surgery

as

> it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake on the part of

> your surgeon.

>

> Second, I understand the thought process of waning to go with a

spine

> stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort technique and I've

> felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that there are

> substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the

> electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it

> does not work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study

> gained relief, and there are also the risks associated with any

> surgery and surgery involving the spinal cord.

>

> If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an

> Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit,

> only the current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the

> electrodes to give a stronder current. This is not felt by us as

> stronger, but it means the electrical impulses from the unit can go

> deeper into the area of our spine. I have used both and the TENS

unit

> only gave me relief at the highest settings and only while I was

> wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long lasting pain

> relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

> inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the

> impulses to travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40

> minutes and get at least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does

> help, it is quite cumbersome to rely on for the rest of your life.

>

> I have had five surgeries since I was 16. Mistakes were made on me

> too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they never should have

> operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they wouldn't

> have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk?

Did

> you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you

> just may be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?

>

> In my opinion, your doc was as operation happy as my first was.

Never

> should someone with a new herniated disk have surgery so soon. The

> surgeons I work with would never have operated on you. I have

worked

> in one of the countrys formost hospitals in Boston, MA. Every spine

> surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be a repeat

> client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as

> buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient.

> The surgeon I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other

> way and all avenue's are tried. I know that when you are hurting,

you

> want the surgery and hope it will be a quick fix for your horrible

> pain. But we know now that there is never a quick fix.

>

> I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me

horrendous

> pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last

week

> to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do

not

> go into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if

this

> doesn't help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.

>

> I don't have any advice for you other that only you can decide what

> is good for you and what risks you are willing to take. Most of us

> hurt so bad we are willing to accept higher risks than other as we

> become desperate. Also, you may want to consider a malpractice

> lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can

prove

> that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently,

you

> may have a chance.

>

> Good luck to you dear--

>

>

> >

> > Hey All,

> > My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all

the

> > opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short

story

> > is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> > later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction

> > because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after

> > that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware

> > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests

> done

> > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each

> level

> > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse

> > than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now

see

> a

> > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to

> help

> > the situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot.

> > Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict

too,

> > the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I

> understand

> > it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here

> have

> > one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the

> > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got

> > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got it.

> > Thank you for reading my plea for help.

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Okay.. I'll put my two cents in. I definitly agree with the statement. " If I

knew then what I know now. " but for me what I would have done differently is

first.. STOP the high impact sports.. I really didn't think it would cause so

many problems down the line. But I would also have to say those were some of

the best/funniest days of my life. Second, when I first herniated my disc and

it was at a level 9-10 of pain I wish I went to our local ER instead of an

Urgent care. It took 6 months before I finally saw my neurosurgeon and he did

my first microdiscectomy/Lamectomy and I was immediately reliefed of the

sciatica pain the next day. Unfortunately since I waited six months I suffered

permanent nerve damage which left me with pain in my foot (burning and feels

like pebbles are in my shoes). Third, I finally stopped high impact sports and

this last episoide came on unexpectedly (unlike the first one which was while

doing high impact sports .. this was 8 years ago) and again the pain shot up to

a 9 very quickly and I waited one day while icing and taking Advil and pain

killers.. but the next day the leg was numb (NOT GOOD!). I immediately went

into my ER and they contact my neurosurgeon and he removed two cashew size

fragments that had broken off and loged in my spine. I did the surgery the next

day and I immediatly got some feeling back but if I went in sooner I probably

wouldn't have had any nerve damage. The good news this time is since I got

those fragments out soon the nerve was not frayed or severed so I am getting

more feeling and strength back. You don't want to wait until you leg gets numb

especially if it comes on quickly. Numb means the nerve is not even firing to

the skin or muscles.

my two cents.

-

spinal problems@...: wendy.tom@...:

Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:50:27 -0400Subject: RE: Re:

Spinal Cord Stimulation

I am listening to you all- I am trying to pursue alternate therapies- Ive been

doing Accupuncture for over a year, massage for 4 years, PT off and on since

2006- epidural/ nerve blocks... the problem areas I suffer from are a chronic SI

joint dysfunction which just gets stuck on the right side and jams the sacrum up

and out and that pain is terrible, because of that the Physical Medicine Docs

think I developed the herniated L5 disc. But they really dont know.So I have

sciatica on the right from the disc as well as the SI joint- L5 and S1 nerves

are irritated.Right now its the SI joint- Sacrum that is driving me off the

wall.I have seen some cases where people get their SI joints radiofrequencied. I

wonder about that as there are quite a few nerves that come out of the sacrum.At

any rate Im supposed to have a Discogram to confirm or not if the pain is Discal

in origin.The Physical Medicine Docs have a variety of most un-fun sounding

things they can do on an outpatient basis for the disc and pain management.so

still trying to do the right things.wendy Re: Spinal

Cord Stimulation> > Hello ,> > I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough

time. I'm a 15 year back pain > sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical

technician with one > specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite

knowledgeable in every > aspect of spine everything!> > First off...let me just

tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt > to remove hardware based on an

xray saying the fusion is good. An > xray is not enough as any respectable

surgeon will tell you. It's > necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to

agreeing to do surgery as > it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake

on the part of > your surgeon.> > Second, I understand the thought process of

waning to go with a spine > stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort

technique and I've > felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that

there are > substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the >

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it > does not

work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study > gained relief, and

there are also the risks associated with any > surgery and surgery involving the

spinal cord.> > If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an >

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit, > only the

current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the > electrodes to give a

stronder current. This is not felt by us as > stronger, but it means the

electrical impulses from the unit can go > deeper into the area of our spine. I

have used both and the TENS unit > only gave me relief at the highest settings

and only while I was > wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long

lasting pain > relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

> inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the > impulses to

travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40 > minutes and get at

least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does > help, it is quite cumbersome

to rely on for the rest of your life.> > I have had five surgeries since I was

16. Mistakes were made on me > too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they

never should have > operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they

wouldn't > have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

> you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you > just may

be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?> > In my opinion, your

doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never > should someone with a new

herniated disk have surgery so soon. The > surgeons I work with would never have

operated on you. I have worked > in one of the countrys formost hospitals in

Boston, MA. Every spine > surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be

a repeat > client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as >

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient. > The surgeon

I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other > way and all avenue's

are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you > want the surgery and hope it

will be a quick fix for your horrible > pain. But we know now that there is

never a quick fix.> > I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me

horrendous > pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last

week > to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not > go

into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this > doesn't

help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.> > I don't have any

advice for you other that only you can decide what > is good for you and what

risks you are willing to take. Most of us > hurt so bad we are willing to accept

higher risks than other as we > become desperate. Also, you may want to consider

a malpractice > lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can

prove > that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you >

may have a chance.> > Good luck to you dear--> > > >> > Hey All,>

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I

ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later,

laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was

having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk

at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt.

I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the

metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he

thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > >

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain

management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the

situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to

compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to

implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc

and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he

has a patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before

he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions

of this message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

> >> > Hey All,> > My

name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story >

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > >

later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > >

because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > >

that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > >

installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests > done

> > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some

worse > > than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I

now see > a > > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot

of drugs to > help > > the situation. They do help but not well

enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to compound the situation by

becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to implant a

spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them?

The doc and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a

mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got > > one and is now

taking more drugs than he was before he got it. > > Thank you for

reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

Terry,

No offense taken.. I had the Peripheral Neuropathy before the surgery plus

pain down the back of my leg so the pain down the back of my leg was gone as

project by the neurosurgen and he predicted that the pain in my foot might

remain. Also, this neurosurgeon is considered the best in our area and actually

people come from hundreds of miles away to seek his skills. He is the one they

call on when brain surgery is required so I have a great deal of respect for

him. I did my research before selecting him. It has been 8 years since that

first surgery. I am aware of DDD and my MRI's show otherwise good health of my

discs (no darken colored) but I do have to DDD and I may need a fusion or

artificial disc at a later date but for now the disc health looks good.. no

darkness, no bulges.. etc. With regard to the most recent surgery it has been 6

weeks so I know I still can get some feeling back and it may take up to a year.

But the good news.... I can tolerate the pain in my foot much better now. I

no longer need to take any pain medications and otherwise I am in excellent

health being an athletic most of my life. My only remaining issues are..

getting feeling and strength back to my leg/foot and ensuring I take very good

care of my back. strong core, swiming, cycling, inversion table... and last but

certainly not least.. DON " T DO SOMETHING STUPID like lift something too heavy.

-

spinal problems@...: tpowell1977@...:

Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:35:14 +0000Subject: Re: Spinal

Cord Stimulation

> >> > Hey All,>

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I

ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later,

laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was

having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk

at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt.

I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the

metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he

thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > >

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain

management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the

situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to

compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to

implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc

and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he

has a patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before

he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions

of this message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

Isn't it so hard to be good while you're try ing to recover?

Everyone's always on your case trying to make sure you behave...I

hate that! ;) It's great that you are feeling so well and I really

hope that you will be a great success story. Stay strong and yes,

don't overdo it (guilty) keep your core strong and you may be able to

prevent more damage. I hope for a speedy recovery for you. The disk

replacements are a great alternative for fusion. I'm not a candidate

in this country right now as I've had prior fusion and multiple

levels. Anyhow, good luck to you!

---

> >> > Hey All,> > My

name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story >

> is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > >

later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > >

because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > >

that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > >

installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests > done

> > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he

> > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was

> > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some

worse > > than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I

now see > a > > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot

of drugs to > help > > the situation. They do help but not well

enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to compound the situation by

becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to implant a

spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them?

The doc and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a

mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got > > one and is now

taking more drugs than he was before he got it. > > Thank you for

reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

thanks

I think it really all depends on how bad it gets and how numb or how much pain

you are suffering even when taking pain pills and doing the Physical Therapy,

etc...

you guys all have good information.

thanks,

wendy

Re: Spinal

Cord Stimulation> > Hello ,> > I'm sorry to hear you have had a rough

time. I'm a 15 year back pain > sufferer at age 30 and my job is a surgical

technician with one > specialty being spine surgery. I am also quite

knowledgeable in every > aspect of spine everything!> > First off...let me just

tell you that no surgeon should ever attempt > to remove hardware based on an

xray saying the fusion is good. An > xray is not enough as any respectable

surgeon will tell you. It's > necessary to have a CAT scan done prior to

agreeing to do surgery as > it gives a much clearer picture. That was a mistake

on the part of > your surgeon.> > Second, I understand the thought process of

waning to go with a spine > stimulator. It is most definitely a last resort

technique and I've > felt bad enough to want it myself. The problem is that

there are > substantial risks. You could develop a lesion where the end of the >

electrode lies, it is effective on only about 50% of your pain,it > does not

work for everyone, only about 50-60% of people in a study > gained relief, and

there are also the risks associated with any > surgery and surgery involving the

spinal cord.> > If you are interested, I can give you some indo about an >

Interferential Therapy unit. It looks and feels like a TENS unit, > only the

current is stronger and crosses in the middle of the > electrodes to give a

stronder current. This is not felt by us as > stronger, but it means the

electrical impulses from the unit can go > deeper into the area of our spine. I

have used both and the TENS unit > only gave me relief at the highest settings

and only while I was > wearing it. The Interferential Therapy Unit give long

lasting pain > relief. The TENS only works subcutaneously and your spine is 6-8

> inches down under your skin. What this unit does is allow the > impulses to

travel deep enough to get relief. I only wear it for 40 > minutes and get at

least 4 hours of pain relief. Now, while it does > help, it is quite cumbersome

to rely on for the rest of your life.> > I have had five surgeries since I was

16. Mistakes were made on me > too. When I had a ruptured disk at age 15, they

never should have > operated on me. If I had known then what I know now, they

wouldn't > have. Did you know that your body can absorb fee pieces of disk? Did

> you know that with therapy, exercize and help of a pain clinic, you > just may

be able to cope long enough for your body to heal itself?> > In my opinion, your

doc was as operation happy as my first was. Never > should someone with a new

herniated disk have surgery so soon. The > surgeons I work with would never have

operated on you. I have worked > in one of the countrys formost hospitals in

Boston, MA. Every spine > surgeon knows that once you have surgery, you will be

a repeat > client. Sadly, there are some docs out there who only look at it as >

buisness, money in their pocket. Not what is best for the patient. > The surgeon

I see will NOT operate on you unless there is no other > way and all avenue's

are tried. I know that when you are hurting, you > want the surgery and hope it

will be a quick fix for your horrible > pain. But we know now that there is

never a quick fix.> > I am now going to have my hardware out as it is giving me

horrendous > pain, at least we are hoping it's the hardware. I had a CAT last

week > to be sure the fusion was good. This will be surgery #6 and I do not > go

into this lightly. I am facing disability at the age of 30 if this > doesn't

help. I'm running out of hope that anything will help.> > I don't have any

advice for you other that only you can decide what > is good for you and what

risks you are willing to take. Most of us > hurt so bad we are willing to accept

higher risks than other as we > become desperate. Also, you may want to consider

a malpractice > lawsuit, although that is a long, hard process. But if you can

prove > that a reasonable surgeon might have done something differently, you >

may have a chance.> > Good luck to you dear--> > > >> > Hey All,>

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I

ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later,

laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was

having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk

at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt.

I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the

metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he

thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > >

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain

management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the

situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to

compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to

implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc

and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he

has a patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before

he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions

of this message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

Sorry I got your name wrong (Terry). I guess my memory is going too.

Thanks for your good wishes. I am getting a little stronger every couple

days. But you are right.. my mistakes have been pushing too hard too

soon. I just used to such a high level of activity and like many people

I am not very patient. I think if I learned anything from this last injury,

it is to be PATIENT!

Maybe it is just my nature but I have to say I have gained wisdom from

all the pain and suffering.. I guess it doesn't come cheap. Each event

has changed me in a significant way and it certainly wasn't an easy journey

but in the end some good has come from it. I am now so much more

sensitive and empathetic to people with disabilities then I ever was.

I used to be a runner, Triathlete, volleyball player and tennis player.

After

my first injury I had to give them ALL up and it was really tough. I think

it took me 5 years before I finally got rid of my volleyball knee pads

(serious

denial). I could no longer even wear tennis shoes since they irritated my

foot to the nth degree. BUT.. since I couldn't do any of those sports I

always

wanted to learn how to surf, so at the age of 48 I picked it and absolutely

LOVED it. I can't imagine ever living my life without surfing. Plus it was

the

only place my foot didn't hurt (dangling off my board in the cold water). So

something good came from it. That was many years ago. Anyhow, I know

others in this group have probably experienced similar enlightenments.

It is a tough and difficult road most of us are on and I pray for all of us

that we heal and make it through a better " person " then we were.

-

spinal problems@...: tpowell1977@...:

Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:32:21 +0000Subject: Re: Spinal

Cord Stimulation

Isn't it so hard to be good while you're try ing to recover? Everyone's always

on your case trying to make sure you behave...I hate that! ;) It's great that

you are feeling so well and I really hope that you will be a great success

story. Stay strong and yes, don't overdo it (guilty) keep your core strong and

you may be able to prevent more damage. I hope for a speedy recovery for you.

The disk replacements are a great alternative for fusion. I'm not a candidate in

this country right now as I've had prior fusion and multiple levels. Anyhow,

good luck to you!---> >> > Hey All,>

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I

ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later,

laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was

having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk

at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt.

I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the

metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he

thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > >

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain

management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the

situation. They do help but not well enough and I take a lot. > > Trying not to

compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to

implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc

and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he

has a patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before

he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions

of this message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

,

I'm glad that you have found a sport that you can anjoy and works for you! I

haven't been so lucky. I work in the OR as a surgical technologist and I

absolutely love my job! It's a perfect fit for me mentally and emotionally,

unfortunately we are finding out not so physically! I've been doing this job for

only five years and I'm currently facing never being able to do it again. We'll

see what happens after the hardware removal. I've heard people say it's helped

so much. If I do not get substantial pain relief, I'm facing disability or some

real creative something else! I really loathe the idea of giving up working in

the OR. I love helping people get better, especially since I'm feeling so bad. I

can't sit, I can't lift or carry  anything heavy. I can't think of anything that

I know how to do and will bring in more than minimum wage. My hubby is about to

take a long walk off a short pier if you know what I mean. He works so much

overtime just to make

ends meet and we've cut back a lot.

I also haven't found a way to stay in shape that suits me physically either.

Swimming works but I find it so boring. I miss doing light weights, lots of

abs(which made things way worse for me) and running. I hate my untoned and soft

body now. Plus it isn't good for my back. I can't even garden anymore, and that

was good cathartic balance time for me. Sometimes I feel hopeless and like I'll

be in a wheelchair when I'm 40. I'm only thirty! My life has really just begun

and it's been 15 years of this and 5 surgeries, soon to be 6. I have two other

DDD and bulging levels which are asymptomatic at this time and have been for

years. In time, they will go too. My hubby calls me the Bionic Woman. I told my

surgeon to just sew in a zipper for easy future access!

A sense of humor has been key for me. That and a very positive outlook.

It's great talking to you !

---

Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation> > > > >

> >> > Hey All,>

> My name is

and I have been dealing with my back and all the > > opinions that come

with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I ruptured the disk at

L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During

PT, I was put into traction > > because I was having so much pain. I had a whole

lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and

hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests >

done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he > >

had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was > > solid, per

the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each > level > > but still took

the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > > than others. I have not

worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain management doctor. He

has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the situation. They do help but

not well enough and I

take a lot. > > Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict

too, > > the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand

> > it to be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > >

one? Know about them? The doc and all the advertising make the > > divice sound

like a mirecle. My DO says he has a patient that got > > one and is now taking

more drugs than he was before he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for

help.> >> >

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,

I really pray that they find a solution for you. How did this all begin for

you at such an early age? Was it a bad surgeon, diagnosis, back or something

else? I will keep good thoughts for you and hope that you get your life back

so at least you can enjoy gardening and some of your other passions. I assume

you have done the research to find the best neurosurgeons in your area.

Everyone talks about the German hospital for artifical discs... maybe they can

solve your problem too.

Hoping for a better life for you!

-

spinal problems@...: tpowell1977@...:

Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:08:39 -0700Subject: Re: Re:

Spinal Cord Stimulation

,I'm glad that you have found a sport that you can anjoy and works for you!

I haven't been so lucky. I work in the OR as a surgical technologist and I

absolutely love my job! It's a perfect fit for me mentally and emotionally,

unfortunately we are finding out not so physically! I've been doing this job for

only five years and I'm currently facing never being able to do it again. We'll

see what happens after the hardware removal. I've heard people say it's helped

so much. If I do not get substantial pain relief, I'm facing disability or some

real creative something else! I really loathe the idea of giving up working in

the OR. I love helping people get better, especially since I'm feeling so bad. I

can't sit, I can't lift or carry anything heavy. I can't think of anything that

I know how to do and will bring in more than minimum wage. My hubby is about to

take a long walk off a short pier if you know what I mean. He works so much

overtime just to makeends meet and we've cut back a lot.I also haven't found a

way to stay in shape that suits me physically either. Swimming works but I find

it so boring. I miss doing light weights, lots of abs(which made things way

worse for me) and running. I hate my untoned and soft body now. Plus it isn't

good for my back. I can't even garden anymore, and that was good cathartic

balance time for me. Sometimes I feel hopeless and like I'll be in a wheelchair

when I'm 40. I'm only thirty! My life has really just begun and it's been 15

years of this and 5 surgeries, soon to be 6. I have two other DDD and bulging

levels which are asymptomatic at this time and have been for years. In time,

they will go too. My hubby calls me the Bionic Woman. I told my surgeon to just

sew in a zipper for easy future access!A sense of humor has been key for me.

That and a very positive outlook. It's great talking to you !--------

Original Message ----From: Rosenfeld <rosenfelds@...>To:

spinal problems@...: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:18:10

PMSubject: RE: Re: Spinal Cord StimulationSorry

I got your name wrong (Terry). I guess my memory is going too.Thanks for your

good wishes. I am getting a little stronger every coupledays. But you are

right.. my mistakes have been pushing too hard toosoon. I just used to such a

high level of activity and like many peopleI am not very patient. I think if I

learned anything from this last injury,it is to be PATIENT! Maybe it is just my

nature but I have to say I have gained wisdom fromall the pain and suffering.. I

guess it doesn't come cheap. Each eventhas changed me in a significant way and

it certainly wasn't an easy journeybut in the end some good has come from it. I

am now so much more sensitive and empathetic to people with disabilities then I

ever was.I used to be a runner, Triathlete, volleyball player and tennis player.

Aftermy first injury I had to give them ALL up and it was really tough. I

thinkit took me 5 years before I finally got rid of my volleyball knee pads

(seriousdenial). I could no longer even wear tennis shoes since they irritated

my foot to the nth degree. BUT.. since I couldn't do any of those sports I

alwayswanted to learn how to surf, so at the age of 48 I picked it and

absolutelyLOVED it. I can't imagine ever living my life without surfing. Plus it

was theonly place my foot didn't hurt (dangling off my board in the cold water).

Sosomething good came from it. That was many years ago. Anyhow, I know others in

this group have probably experienced similar enlightenments. It is a tough and

difficult road most of us are on and I pray for all of us that we heal and make

it through a better " person " then we were.-spinedisorderssuppo

rtgroup@gro ups.comFrom: tpowell1977Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008

20:32:21 +0000Subject: Re: Spinal Cord

StimulationIsn't it so hard to be good while you're try ing to recover?

Everyone's always on your case trying to make sure you behave...I hate that! ;)

It's great that you are feeling so well and I really hope that you will be a

great success story. Stay strong and yes, don't overdo it (guilty) keep your

core strong and you may be able to prevent more damage. I hope for a speedy

recovery for you. The disk replacements are a great alternative for fusion. I'm

not a candidate in this country right now as I've had prior fusion and multiple

levels. Anyhow, good luck to you!---- -- In spinedisorderssuppo

rtgroup@gro ups.com, Rosenfeld <rosenfelds@ ...> wrote:>> > Terry,> No

offense taken.. I had the Peripheral Neuropathy before the surgery plus pain

down the back of my leg so the pain down the back of my leg was gone as project

by the neurosurgen and he predicted that the pain in my foot might remain. Also,

this neurosurgeon is considered the best in ourarea and actually people come

from hundreds of miles away to seek his skills. He is the one they call on when

brain surgery is required so I have a great deal of respect for him. I did my

research before selecting him. It has been 8 years since that first surgery. I

am aware of DDD and my MRI's show otherwise good health of my discs (no darken

colored) but I do have to DDD and I may need a fusion or artificial disc at a

later date but for now the disc health looks good.. no darkness, no bulges..

etc. With regard to the most recent surgery it has been 6 weeks so I know I

still can get some feeling back and it may take up to a year. But the good

news.... I can tolerate the pain in my foot much better now. I no longer need to

take any pain medications and otherwise I am in excellent health being an

athletic most of my life. My only remaining issues are.. getting feeling and

strength back to my leg/foot and ensuring I take very good care of my back.

strongcore, swiming, cycling, inversion table... and last but certainly not

least.. DON " T DO SOMETHING STUPID like lift something too heavy.> > -> > > >

spinedisorderssuppo rtgroup@. ..: tpowell1977@ ...: Fri, 11 Jul 2008

19:35:14 +0000Subject: Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation> >

> > > > >> > Hey All,>

> My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > >

opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I

ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later,

laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was

having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk

at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt.

I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the

metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he

thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each >

level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > >

than others. I have not worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain

management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the

situation. They do help but not well enough and Itake a lot. > > Trying not to

compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to

implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive

internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc

and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he

has a patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before

he got it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions

of this message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> >

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, I have looked into the German hospitals, but I don't have all the $$$$ to

pay for that. It's all out of pocket and it's tens of thousands of dollars.

Now that I work in the OR and spine surgery is my specialty, I am one of the

lucky few who REALLY kows how to get a good surgeon. You can't go much by

recommendations. Most people think their doc is great, but they have nothing to

base that on. Other physicians may refer you, but they don't really even know

what they are like. So...what makes a good surgeon? A good surgeon not only has

good bedside manner,which to me is on the bottom of the list as I'd rather have

an asshole who was good with the knife! A good surgeon is the guy that stays

late in the OR because someone needs help, or he stays late because the

positioning of the screws isn't just right and he will do it over and over until

it's right. Minor details like that can have a profound effect on the success of

the fusion. This surgeon stays until it is done right, even though his wife is

calling and he's missing dinner with his family or the chance to tuck the kids

in. Let me tell you, that is

exceedingly rare. A good surgeon shows support and empathy while he puts off

your surgery because he knows it is truly better for you, though sometimes not

what you want to hear. A good surgeon will try everything possible to avoid

surgery and focus on what can be done, even if it doesn't benefit him. A good

surgeon is one who does strictly one specialty service( ex, spine OR brain) I

have worked with some fantastic brain surgeons who really aren't so good at

spine, and vice versa. That's usually the way it is nowadays. The

ultraspecialists. Although they do the same damn surgeries day in and day out,

they become the absolute best at what they do.

 I have worked alongside my surgeon, helping him do what he was going to be

doing to me. This man is particularly difficult for most of the OR staff to work

with. I made it my mission to quickly learn all I could about his technique and

preferences. I made it into the top two peole who would be allowed to scrub with

him and let me tell you, I learned so much about the vital differences in

surgeons. This guy was never boastful outside the OR. You would never look at

him and guess the man inside. I now trust him with my life and that of anyone

else I love. He is that good.

Now, if only I had known so much when I was just a youngun'! What happened to

me. OK...This will take a while. I will try to give you the abridged edition...

No one really knows why my disk injury happened. We have guesses, genetic

tendencies must have been the edge that made the things that happened more

likely to injure me than others. I jumped onto a big tire innertube on a lake

and got stuck inside the big inner circle, stuck arched backwards...ouch! But I

felt fine soon after. Then it could have been all the gymnastics I did

throughout my childhood. Surgeons say that's one of the top contributors in

women. Anyway or it could be the heavy dogs I lifted in my high school job at

the vet's office. Or likely a combination.

When I was fifteen, I developed back pain that came on fairly sudden. I was

getting achy one monthe and the next it became so severe I was standing in

school. My PCP said it was a muscle strain. Uh huh. Who hasn't heard THAT one

before! I tried physical therapy, and really stuck with it about as long as any

teenager would.I had the MRI which showed that I had a ruptured disk with a free

fragment. There was no pain clinic or anything. Just a few weeks of half-assed

PT which didn't help and then it was to the OR with me. I wanted it. They gave

me the choice of trying more PT or surgery. My parents and I all thought surgery

was a quick fix. Plus this doc was chief of pedi neuro surg. At the time we

thought it meant something to be chief, like most people. Few people know that

it doesn't mean they are the best. It's simply a title given to the doc in

charge of the neurosurg stuff for the hospital. It's more administrative. The

joke was on us I guess. So I

had the microdiskectomy. Was walking that night, home the next and felt great.

Being a teeneger, I went back to life as normal. My parents freaked when my surg

gace me permission to go skiing 6 wks after surgery.

Had I known that free fragments will be absorbed by the body over time, I would

never had done the surgery. Well, ok I would because I was young and had no idea

what was in store for me.

I had a good outcome and was pain free for a year. You see, when there is a tear

in the annulus that allows the nucleus pulposus to come out of the disk...OR

when a surgical hole is made in the disk to remove the bulging portion of the

disk...it allows more pulposus to come out. It's like an open window. Also, with

that hole, the disk does dry out and thins which is what we know as DDD. So a

year later I started to have pain again. Tried PT. No go. Back to surgery. This

time I was eighteen and my last surgeon was pedi and passed me off to a reg

neuro guy. So this neuro guy says we can do a regular diskectomy and

laminectomy. But he wants to do discography first to make sure my pain is coming

from the disk. No prob, except I told him I only would do that if he promised

there was no risk of a " spinal headache " which is what happens when after the

dura is punctured. The worst pain of my life! I had already had one with a

previous Myleogram before my first

surg. No way he says. We don't even go near it! So I go and all went well until

that night when I started with a " spinal headache " . My local community hosp ER

could do nothing for me as they had no neurosurgeon there, as is the case with

many community hosp. I went to three ERs and in the ambulance a few times before

it got someone to do a blood patch a WEEK later! My mom brought me on a

stretcher into his office. I could NOT sit up. He denied it was from the

procedure and said I was being dramatic. He actually got mad at me! He gave me

valium and a few other things to shut me up. That night my mom had to call

Ambulance to bring me back to this hospitals ER. Now this was the major hospital

of the state of Rhode Island which is also the teaching hospital for Brown

University. And people think that counts.  So I had the surgery and was feeling

great for a year and a half. Then the pain came all over again.

This time I decided I was going to Boston. My mom was able to get me an

appointment with this " big, up and coming surgeon who was the guypeople come to

from all over the world. " Yeah, I thought that must mean something too. He was

known for doing impressive brain surgery at the time. So ha says he wants to try

a new technique on me that they've just started doing. It's supposed to be the

next best thing in fusion surgery. So we were all wowed. I felt ao lucky to be a

part of this. I didn't understand that " new procedure that we just started

doing " means that they are inexperienced at performing it and they have no long

term studies to prove it's so good. Anyway, I had an ALIF/ PLIF. They go in from

the front to remove the biggest part of the disk at the place it's bulging at

and place a bone graft there(aka from a cadaver).  Most people don't realize

that the usual place the disk bulges is on the anterior side, facing the front.

they cannot access this

from your back. Then they flip you over (buck naked) and operate from the back

where they perform more diskectomy and add more bone draft, used to be from your

hip, but the big docs are getting away from that as they have something similar

to use but since the hip grafting is so painful, they use something else.

Anyway, the main way to fuse your spine is with pedicle screws. They go through

a thick and relatively strong bony proninence. There also is not a lot of nerves

there. Well, this new procedure was facet screw fixation. Your facets are a

joint that is the hinge between each vertebrae. Basically, the analogy I think

of is it's like puttin a skinny screw into your funny bone to keep it from

moving. Lots of nerves and a much smaller bony prominence to put a screw though.

So, I was in hospital 4 day and recovery was a bitch. I wore a brace for 3 or 4

months which was a piece of plastic which was molded to my shape. It went from

my nipples to my hip. VERY incomfortable. At this time I was 21 and had two boys

who were 1 1/2 and 2 1/2. Not great timing. All of my postop visits my surg said

my bone was fusing 50% faster than normal. He was ecstatic. He used photos and

narrative from my surgery on a Power-Point  presentation at Harvard. After I

recovered, I had

absolutely NO PAIN for about 3 or 4 years. I thought I could not be hurt as I

had all bone and no disk. WRONG!!! What I didn't know was that the bone was NOT

fused. An xray before my last surgery showed a crumbled mess. I didn't know it

because the screws were holding the joint from moving. Until one day I was

jogging and I felt a horrific pain shoot in my back and I couldn't move. I later

found out that's when I likely broke my titanium screws. Yes, titanium the

worlds strongest metal.

 I went back to my surg and he said more PT!!! If that didn't help he would

operate again. I was like NO WAY to that! I focused on PT and I seriously got my

body strong. Started to feel better, but was taking Ultram for the pain still.

Then I started to go crazy on my abs thinking I'd look good and it would be good

for my core. Well I was doing bad things to my back in the process and I broke

another screw. I went back to see mt neuro who did a CT, MRI and bone scan. He

said we'll try facet injections and if that doesn't help, we'll operate.

I then got ahold of my radiology reports and I knew what they said as now I was

a surgical tech. What I read made me physically ill. It said there was NO

evidence of fusion at all plus a few other things. Oh my world crumbled. I just

didn't want to go though another surgery. I held off so long that both of my

buttocks were numb at the top and my toes were either numb or tingly. So I gave

in after literally trying everything, but with a " non-union " or

" pseudoarthrosis " as it is referred to, it had to be fixed.

At this time I was working in another BIG NAME Boston Hospital and went to the

man who I trust. Dr. Glazer. He did another ALIF/PLIF, this time he had to

go up one level to L4, L5. I have six pedicle screws which are the size of my

pinky finger and two fusion rods as well as a crosslink which connects the right

and left sides. He did a fantastic job and I was finally able to return to work

after seven months. I have to be able to lift up to 50 lbs to go back , so it

took a long time! I finally started to really feel like I was on the home

stretch at 9 mos and was feeling pretty great. But then I started to ache in the

facet areas of L4-S1. I went to the pain clinic at Big Hospital and tried

everything. Initially it helped, but only for a while. I even had Botox

injections to stop the muscle spasm...it did NOT work. So now my neuro says it's

likely the hardware. It happens frequently. Titanium is a pretty inert

metal...but it doesn't belong there.

Surgery is now scheduled for August 4.

I have a few bulging disks above with some DDD, but as yet I am asymptomatic.

WHEW!!! Did I lose you yet???

Sorry, i know it was long!

[spinal Disorders

Support] Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation> > > > > > >> > Hey All,> > My name is and I have been dealing with my

back and all the > > opinions that come with it for almost 5 years now. The

short story > > is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days

> > later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was put into traction > >

because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more after > > that. I/We

blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and

hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon

said, lets take the metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered

that the fusion he thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did

another fusion at each > level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain

everyday. Some worse > > than others. I have not worked since the day I got

hurt. I now see > a > > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of

drugs to > help > > the situation.

They do help but not well enough and Itake a lot. > > Trying not to compound

the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to implant a

spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive internal

tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc and all the

advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a

patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got

it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> >

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,

A couple of comments. First,thanks for taking the time to educate me on

your history. What a journey you have been on. Second, I completely agree with

your assessment of surgeon selection and as you point out one of the best

indicators are the " nurses " that work besides them. They know more than most

about the skills, talents, and dedication of the surgeons. I got my references

from previous patients, friends of mine who are doctors and nurses. So like

your surgeon I have confidence in him. Funny you should mention " bedside

manner " .. his is absolutely terrible. Many people won't go to him because he

is rather stone faced and not very empathetic but I still would pick him over

some of the other docs that are compasionate and friendly. To give you an

example, he did my second surgery on Valentines day in 2003. A day I am sure

he would have preferred to be home with his wife. I had my wife surprise him

by drawing a heart around his incision point before going under he knife with

words like .. Happy Valentines Day.. Please take care of my husband. I heard

it was one of the few times he smiled as I was rolled into OR. He also is NOT

quick to suggest surgery (which I had heard from my references). Finally, he as

always been blunt honest with me both before and after the surgery. Sometimes

it was hard to swallow but I had a better idea of what to expect. So far he is

batting 100 on his predictions. Some I wish he were wrong. Anyhow, enough

about him. It sounds like we both have found our premier surgeon. (side note-

I was pre-med and volunteered in ER for two years, and worked with my father who

was a doctor and my brother is an ER doc so I have some experience in this

field)

With regard to your history..Oh my G_d .. have you gone through a lot at an

early age. We (this group) are lucky to have you responding to peoples

questions, concerns and education. You have a wealth of information to provide

to this community. I do pray that your Ausgust surgery goes well. Sounds like

you have the best working on you so if anyone can do it he can! For me, if I am

getting close to needing an Artificial Disc .. I will take out an equity loan on

my home to pay to go to Germany. My life is worth so much more than 40,000.

But I may be in a different financial profile than yourself. Obviously, I hope

that doesn't come to pass and by the time it does. The US will have caught up

with Europe.

I pray your August surgery greatly improves your condition and thank you once

again for enlightening me on your history.

-

spinal problems@...: tpowell1977@...:

Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:33:01 -0700Subject: Re: Re:

Spinal Cord Stimulation

, I have looked into the German hospitals, but I don't have all the $$$$ to

pay for that. It's all out of pocket and it's tens of thousands of dollars. Now

that I work in the OR and spine surgery is my specialty, I am one of the lucky

few who REALLY kows how to get a good surgeon. You can't go much by

recommendations. Most people think their doc is great, but they have nothing to

base that on. Other physicians may refer you, but they don't really even know

what they are like. So...what makes a good surgeon? A good surgeon not only has

good bedside manner,which to me is on the bottom of the list as I'd rather have

an asshole who was good with the knife! A good surgeon is the guy that stays

late in the OR because someone needs help, or he stays late because the

positioning of the screws isn't just right and he will do it over and over until

it's right. Minor details like that can have a profound effect on the success of

the fusion. This surgeon stays until it is done right, even though his wife is

calling and he's missing dinner with his family or the chance to tuck the kids

in. Let me tell you, that isexceedingly rare. A good surgeon shows support and

empathy while he puts off your surgery because he knows it is truly better for

you, though sometimes not what you want to hear. A good surgeon will try

everything possible to avoid surgery and focus on what can be done, even if it

doesn't benefit him. A good surgeon is one who does strictly one specialty

service( ex, spine OR brain) I have worked with some fantastic brain surgeons

who really aren't so good at spine, and vice versa. That's usually the way it is

nowadays. The ultraspecialists. Although they do the same damn surgeries day in

and day out, they become the absolute best at what they do. I have worked

alongside my surgeon, helping him do what he was going to be doing to me. This

man is particularly difficult for most of the OR staff to work with. I made it

my mission to quickly learn all I could about his technique and preferences. I

made it into the top two peole who would be allowed to scrub with him and let me

tell you, I learned so much about the vital differences in surgeons. This guy

was never boastful outside the OR. You would never look at him and guess the man

inside. I now trust him with my life and that of anyone else I love. He is that

good.Now, if only I had known so much when I was just a youngun'! What happened

to me. OK...This will take a while. I will try to give you the abridged

edition...No one really knows why my disk injury happened. We have guesses,

genetic tendencies must have been the edge that made the things that happened

more likely to injure me than others. I jumped onto a big tire innertube on a

lake and got stuck inside the big inner circle, stuck arched backwards...ouch!

But I felt fine soon after. Then it could have been all the gymnastics I did

throughout my childhood. Surgeons say that's one of the top contributors in

women. Anyway or it could be the heavy dogs I lifted in my high school job at

the vet's office. Or likely a combination.When I was fifteen, I developed back

pain that came on fairly sudden. I was getting achy one monthe and the next it

became so severe I was standing in school. My PCP said it was a muscle strain.

Uh huh. Who hasn't heard THAT one before! I tried physical therapy, and really

stuck with it about as long as any teenager would.I had the MRI which showed

that I had a ruptured disk with a free fragment. There was no pain clinic or

anything. Just a few weeks of half-assed PT which didn't help and then it was to

the OR with me. I wanted it. They gave me the choice of trying more PT or

surgery. My parents and I all thought surgery was a quick fix. Plus this doc was

chief of pedi neuro surg. At the time we thought it meant something to be chief,

like most people. Few people know that it doesn't mean they are the best. It's

simply a title given to the doc in charge of the neurosurg stuff for the

hospital. It's more administrative. The joke was on us I guess. So Ihad the

microdiskectomy. Was walking that night, home the next and felt great. Being a

teeneger, I went back to life as normal. My parents freaked when my surg gace me

permission to go skiing 6 wks after surgery.Had I known that free fragments will

be absorbed by the body over time, I would never had done the surgery. Well, ok

I would because I was young and had no idea what was in store for me.I had a

good outcome and was pain free for a year. You see, when there is a tear in the

annulus that allows the nucleus pulposus to come out of the disk...OR when a

surgical hole is made in the disk to remove the bulging portion of the disk...it

allows more pulposus to come out. It's like an open window. Also, with that

hole, the disk does dry out and thins which is what we know as DDD. So a year

later I started to have pain again. Tried PT. No go. Back to surgery. This time

I was eighteen and my last surgeon was pedi and passed me off to a reg neuro

guy. So this neuro guy says we can do a regular diskectomy and laminectomy. But

he wants to do discography first to make sure my pain is coming from the disk.

No prob, except I told him I only would do that if he promised there was no risk

of a " spinal headache " which is what happens when after the dura is punctured.

The worst pain of my life! I had already had one with a previous Myleogram

before my firstsurg. No way he says. We don't even go near it! So I go and all

went well until that night when I started with a " spinal headache " . My local

community hosp ER could do nothing for me as they had no neurosurgeon there, as

is the case with many community hosp. I went to three ERs and in the ambulance a

few times before it got someone to do a blood patch a WEEK later! My mom brought

me on a stretcher into his office. I could NOT sit up. He denied it was from the

procedure and said I was being dramatic. He actually got mad at me! He gave me

valium and a few other things to shut me up. That night my mom had to call

Ambulance to bring me back to this hospitals ER. Now this was the major hospital

of the state of Rhode Island which is also the teaching hospital for Brown

University. And people think that counts. So I had the surgery and was feeling

great for a year and a half. Then the pain came all over again.This time I

decided I was going to Boston. My mom was able to get me an appointment with

this " big, up and coming surgeon who was the guypeople come to from all over the

world. " Yeah, I thought that must mean something too. He was known for doing

impressive brain surgery at the time. So ha says he wants to try a new technique

on me that they've just started doing. It's supposed to be the next best thing

in fusion surgery. So we were all wowed. I felt ao lucky to be a part of this. I

didn't understand that " new procedure that we just started doing " means that

they are inexperienced at performing it and they have no long term studies to

prove it's so good. Anyway, I had an ALIF/ PLIF. They go in from the front to

remove the biggest part of the disk at the place it's bulging at and place a

bone graft there(aka from a cadaver). Most people don't realize that the usual

place the disk bulges is on the anterior side, facing the front. they cannot

access thisfrom your back. Then they flip you over (buck naked) and operate from

the back where they perform more diskectomy and add more bone draft, used to be

from your hip, but the big docs are getting away from that as they have

something similar to use but since the hip grafting is so painful, they use

something else. Anyway, the main way to fuse your spine is with pedicle screws.

They go through a thick and relatively strong bony proninence. There also is not

a lot of nerves there. Well, this new procedure was facet screw fixation. Your

facets are a joint that is the hinge between each vertebrae. Basically, the

analogy I think of is it's like puttin a skinny screw into your funny bone to

keep it from moving. Lots of nerves and a much smaller bony prominence to put a

screw though. So, I was in hospital 4 day and recovery was a bitch. I wore a

brace for 3 or 4 months which was a piece of plastic which was molded to my

shape. It went from my nipples to my hip. VERY incomfortable. At this time I was

21 and had two boys who were 1 1/2 and 2 1/2. Not great timing. All of my postop

visits my surg said my bone was fusing 50% faster than normal. He was ecstatic.

He used photos and narrative from my surgery on a Power-Point presentation at

Harvard. After I recovered, I hadabsolutely NO PAIN for about 3 or 4 years. I

thought I could not be hurt as I had all bone and no disk. WRONG!!! What I

didn't know was that the bone was NOT fused. An xray before my last surgery

showed a crumbled mess. I didn't know it because the screws were holding the

joint from moving. Until one day I was jogging and I felt a horrific pain shoot

in my back and I couldn't move. I later found out that's when I likely broke my

titanium screws. Yes, titanium the worlds strongest metal. I went back to my

surg and he said more PT!!! If that didn't help he would operate again. I was

like NO WAY to that! I focused on PT and I seriously got my body strong. Started

to feel better, but was taking Ultram for the pain still. Then I started to go

crazy on my abs thinking I'd look good and it would be good for my core. Well I

was doing bad things to my back in the process and I broke another screw. I went

back to see mt neuro who did a CT, MRI and bone scan. He said we'll try facet

injections and if that doesn't help, we'll operate.I then got ahold of my

radiology reports and I knew what they said as now I was a surgical tech. What I

read made me physically ill. It said there was NO evidence of fusion at all plus

a few other things. Oh my world crumbled. I just didn't want to go though

another surgery. I held off so long that both of my buttocks were numb at the

top and my toes were either numb or tingly. So I gave in after literally trying

everything, but with a " non-union " or " pseudoarthrosis " as it is referred to, it

had to be fixed.At this time I was working in another BIG NAME Boston Hospital

and went to the man who I trust. Dr. Glazer. He did another ALIF/PLIF, this

time he had to go up one level to L4, L5. I have six pedicle screws which are

the size of my pinky finger and two fusion rods as well as a crosslink which

connects the right and left sides. He did a fantastic job and I was finally able

to return to work after seven months. I have to be able to lift up to 50 lbs to

go back , so it took a long time! I finally started to really feel like I was on

the home stretch at 9 mos and was feeling pretty great. But then I started to

ache in the facet areas of L4-S1. I went to the pain clinic at Big Hospital and

tried everything. Initially it helped, but only for a while. I even had Botox

injections to stop the muscle spasm...it did NOT work. So now my neuro says it's

likely the hardware. It happens frequently. Titanium is a pretty inert

metal...but it doesn't belong there.Surgery is now scheduled for August 4.I have

a few bulging disks above with some DDD, but as yet I am asymptomatic.WHEW!!!

Did I lose you yet???Sorry, i know it was long! Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation> >

> > > > >> > Hey All,> >

My name is and I have been dealing with my back and all the > > opinions

that come with it for almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I ruptured the

disk at L5-S1, at work. I had surgery 10 days > > later, laminectomy/ discetomy.

During PT, I was put into traction > > because I was having so much pain. I had

a whole lot more after > > that. I/We blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and

hardware > > installed. It hurt and hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests >

done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon said, lets take the metal out. While he > >

had me on the table, he discovered that the fusion he thought was > > solid, per

the X-Rays, was not. He did another fusion at each > level > > but still took

the hardware out. I have pain everyday. Some worse > > than others. I have not

worked since the day I got hurt. I now see > a > > pain management doctor. He

has been giving me a lot of drugs to > help > > the situation.They do help but

not well enough and Itake a lot. > > Trying not to compound the situation by

becoming a drug addict too, > > the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord

stimulator. I > understand > > it to be a very expensive internal tens unit.

Does anyone here > have > > one? Know about them? The doc and all the

advertising make the > > divice sound like a mirecle. My DO says he has a

patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got

it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> >

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Posted
Posted

& anyone else who has SI joint Dysfunction - before you have surgery,

please try

either ACTIVE RELEASE THERAPY

http://www.activerelease.com/what_patients.asp

OR

INTEGRATIVE MANUAL THERAPY (IMT)

http://www.centerimt.com/WhatisCenterimt.asp

IMT is PT based & more likely to be covered by insurance.

Some people get excellent results. I know one person who was scheduled for

surgery but

cancelled because ART worked.

To find an ART practitioner, go to

www.activerelease.com/providerSearch.asp

When choosing a practitioner, pick the one with the most coursework, preferably

an

instructor. The more experience they have, the better the results.

To find Integrative Manual Therapy, go to

http://www.centerimt.com/locations.asp

www.centerimt.com/locations.asp

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Posted
Posted

Hi & ,

Wow reading about your story just grips me....how much you have endured

and gone through.

You know at Stenum in Germany they have Blue Shield and Blue Cross coverage.

I am leaving in two days to fly over to Germany for a disc replacement.

Nervous, scared and excited all mixed together, but being bed-ridden the rest of

my life is not an option for me.

From what I understand the Drs. and the care over there is phenomenal. They have

done thousands of these procedures between the two Drs.

They are also known for fixing bad surgeries, complicated surgeries that have

been messed up by the US Drs.

Coarse they don't go in and correct bad fusions since fusions are pretty much

the end of the line.

I have a facet joint issue due to the damaged disc

it turns out that the Maverick disc will correct that problem, just by the

nature of how the Maverick disc is made.

, your right in the cost it is between 35-40

thousand to have the procedure done.

I definately wish you well this " go round " and pray for a wonderful out come for

you...you have suffered incredibly and you amaze me as to what you have endured.

Blessings to you both,

Joanne

Re: Spinal

Cord Stimulation> > > > > > >> > Hey All,> > My name is and I

have been dealing with my back and all the > > opinions that come with it for

almost 5 years now. The short story > > is I ruptured the disk at L5-S1, at

work. I had surgery 10 days > > later, laminectomy/ discetomy. During PT, I was

put into traction > > because I was having so much pain. I had a whole lot more

after > > that. I/We

blew the disk at L4-L5. I had a fusion and hardware > > installed. It hurt and

hurt and hurt. I have a bunch of tests > done > > and my Orthopedic Surgeon

said, lets take the metal out. While he > > had me on the table, he discovered

that the fusion he thought was > > solid, per the X-Rays, was not. He did

another fusion at each > level > > but still took the hardware out. I have pain

everyday. Some worse > > than others. I have not worked since the day I got

hurt. I now see > a > > pain management doctor. He has been giving me a lot of

drugs to > help > > the situation.They do help but not well enough and Itake a

lot. > > Trying not to compound the situation by becoming a drug addict too, > >

the pain doc wants to implant a spinal cord stimulator. I > understand > > it to

be a very expensive internal tens unit. Does anyone here > have > > one? Know

about them? The doc and all the advertising make the > > divice sound like a

mirecle. My DO says he has a

patient that got > > one and is now taking more drugs than he was before he got

it. > > Thank you for reading my plea for help.> >> > [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]> >

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When I looked into Stenum almost two years ago now,

there was nothing saying they contracted with Blue

Cross. I wouldn't even think to look for it and am

very surprised that they do it, although it's a

sensible choice. I know in Germany you can get

multi-level disk replacements and they've been doing

it for so long. It stinks that our contry is so far

behind the 8 ball in this. I did my research on Stenum

and know them to be an outstanding group of

practitioners and agree that many of us will have a

much better future with work done over there. I wish

years ago....but who knew? ---

--- Joanne Shively <thruhiseyes1@...> wrote:

> Hi & ,

> Wow reading about your story just grips

> me....how much you have endured and gone through.

> You know at Stenum in Germany they have Blue Shield

> and Blue Cross coverage.

> I am leaving in two days to fly over to Germany for

> a disc replacement.

> Nervous, scared and excited all mixed together, but

> being bed-ridden the rest of my life is not an

> option for me.

> From what I understand the Drs. and the care over

> there is phenomenal. They have done thousands of

> these procedures between the two Drs.

> They are also known for fixing bad surgeries,

> complicated surgeries that have been messed up by

> the US Drs.

> Coarse they don't go in and correct bad fusions

> since fusions are pretty much the end of the line.

> I have a facet joint issue due to the damaged disc

> it turns out that the Maverick disc will correct

> that problem, just by the nature of how the Maverick

> disc is made.

> , your right in the cost it is between 35-40

> thousand to have the procedure done.

>

> I definately wish you well this " go round " and pray

> for a wonderful out come for you...you have suffered

> incredibly and you amaze me as to what you have

> endured.

>

> Blessings to you both,

> Joanne

>

>

>

> Re: [spinal Disorders

> Support] Re: Spinal Cord Stimulation

>

> , I have looked into the German hospitals, but I

> don't have all the $$$$ to pay for that. It's all

> out of pocket and it's tens of thousands of dollars.

> Now that I work in the OR and spine surgery is my

> specialty, I am one of the lucky few who REALLY kows

> how to get a good surgeon. You can't go much by

> recommendations. Most people think their doc is

> great, but they have nothing to base that on. Other

> physicians may refer you, but they don't really even

> know what they are like. So...what makes a good

> surgeon? A good surgeon not only has good bedside

> manner,which to me is on the bottom of the list as

> I'd rather have an asshole who was good with the

> knife! A good surgeon is the guy that stays late in

> the OR because someone needs help, or he stays late

> because the positioning of the screws isn't just

> right and he will do it over and over until it's

> right. Minor details like that can have a profound

> effect on the success of the fusion. This surgeon

> stays

> until it is done right, even though his wife is

> calling and he's missing dinner with his family or

> the chance to tuck the kids in. Let me tell you,

> that isexceedingly rare. A good surgeon shows

> support and empathy while he puts off your surgery

> because he knows it is truly better for you, though

> sometimes not what you want to hear. A good surgeon

> will try everything possible to avoid surgery and

> focus on what can be done, even if it doesn't

> benefit him. A good surgeon is one who does strictly

> one specialty service( ex, spine OR brain) I have

> worked with some fantastic brain surgeons who really

> aren't so good at spine, and vice versa. That's

> usually the way it is nowadays. The

> ultraspecialists. Although they do the same damn

> surgeries day in and day out, they become the

> absolute best at what they do. I have worked

> alongside my surgeon, helping him do what he was

> going to be doing to me. This man is particularly

> difficult for most of the OR staff to work

> with. I made it my mission to quickly learn all I

> could about his technique and preferences. I made it

> into the top two peole who would be allowed to scrub

> with him and let me tell you, I learned so much

> about the vital differences in surgeons. This guy

> was never boastful outside the OR. You would never

> look at him and guess the man inside. I now trust

> him with my life and that of anyone else I love. He

> is that good.Now, if only I had known so much when I

> was just a youngun'! What happened to me. OK...This

> will take a while. I will try to give you the

> abridged edition...No one really knows why my disk

> injury happened. We have guesses, genetic tendencies

> must have been the edge that made the things that

> happened more likely to injure me than others. I

> jumped onto a big tire innertube on a lake and got

> stuck inside the big inner circle, stuck arched

> backwards... ouch! But I felt fine soon after. Then

> it could have been all the gymnastics I did

> throughout

> my childhood. Surgeons say that's one of the top

> contributors in women. Anyway or it could be the

> heavy dogs I lifted in my high school job at the

> vet's office. Or likely a combination. When I was

> fifteen, I developed back pain that came on fairly

> sudden. I was getting achy one monthe and the next

> it became so severe I was standing in school. My PCP

> said it was a muscle strain. Uh huh. Who hasn't

> heard THAT one before! I tried physical therapy, and

> really stuck with it about as long as any teenager

> would.I had the MRI which showed that I had a

> ruptured disk with a free fragment. There was no

> pain clinic or anything. Just a few weeks of

> half-assed PT which didn't help and then it was to

> the OR with me. I wanted it. They gave me the choice

> of trying more PT or surgery. My parents and I all

> thought surgery was a quick fix. Plus this doc was

> chief of pedi neuro surg. At the time we thought it

> meant something to be chief, like most people. Few

> people know

> that it doesn't mean they are the best. It's simply

> a title given to the doc in charge of the neurosurg

> stuff for the hospital. It's more administrative.

> The joke was on us I guess. So Ihad the

> microdiskectomy. Was walking that night, home the

> next and felt great. Being a teeneger, I went back

> to life as normal. My parents freaked when my surg

> gace me permission to go skiing 6 wks after

> surgery.Had I known that free fragments will be

> absorbed by the body over time, I would never had

> done the surgery. Well, ok I would because I was

> young and had no idea what was in store for me.I had

> a

=== message truncated ===

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