Training With Bands

[Guest guest]

Greetings Everyone,

I have recently started experimenting with bands. I want to share a few

ideas just to test my understanding.

If someone squats say 300 pounds for 5 reps, he/she is squatting a constant

weight. Put another way, the resistance is static. If he attaches a band

to each side of the bar, two things happen: The static resistance is

reduced. He will not squat the same 300 pounds for 5 reps with the bands.

He may have to use 250 pounds plus the bands. On the other hand, dynamic

resistance is added; i.e., the resistance of the bands increases as the

squatter moves toward completion of the lift. Of course, at the bottom of

the lift (e.g., coming out of the parallel position) the lift is easier

because, at that point, there is less weight on the bar and the bands are

offering minimal resistance.

So, why use bands? From the perspective of a competitive lifter, it seems

to me that the reason for training with bands is to improve power in the

lock-out or completion stage of a lift. It's a kind of specialized

training. But what about the person who is training for general development

of strength and mass? For that person, one issue is the ability to change

the pattern of stress in order to maximize adaptation and minimize

accommodation. There are, of course, a number of ways to do that. For any

given exercise--in this case, the squat--he can vary the relation between

intensity and volume (250 for 10 reps, then 300 for 5 reps, then 350 for 2-3

reps, etc.), he can change the exercise (squats for a few weeks, then front

squats, then belt squats, etc.), or he can change the pattern of stress by

moving from a static resistance (no bands) to a dynamic resistance (bands)

version of the same exercise (squats).

What I am debating is whether that " dynamic resistance " version of the

exercise is a worthwhile way to change the pattern of stress, for the

purpose of avoiding accommodation. Or, with reference to my example, does

it make more sense to do the squats using the 300 pounds through a full

range of movement, then, after a period, change the exercise, leaving bands

out of the mix?

I suppose one other possibility with respect to changing the pattern of

resistance would be to do some sets with bands (to maximize resistance at

the upper end of the squat) and some sets that start at the lower position

of the exercise from a dead stop (to maximize the effort at the lower end).

At any rate, thanks for lending an ear. I would be interested in any

comments.

Pitruzzello, Ph.D.

Chicago, IL

[Guest guest]

I have trained with bands and chains for many years and in a variety of ways on

all of the power lifts. Elite fitness has numerous ways you can use them. I

honestly cannot say that they have improved my lifts over any other exercise. I

think for my age and size I am one of the best dead lifters in the world and I

have never used bands to train the dead lift with any success.

I like benching with bands and a close grip for the triceps as well as chains

and I do like bands with the box squat however both have injured me in over

using them. The most success I have had that had tremendous impact on my lifts

came from learning and doing the Sheiko routines.

I put over 50 pounds on my squat and dead lift at age 55. By using Metal

Militia training and learning to use my shirt better I put about 30 pounds on my

bench. I can't say that bands ever did anything for me like that. Each of us

is different and I aspire to much of West side training but I have to be honest

" Comrade if you want to lift more lift more " , as my Russian friends say. The

best way in my humble opinion to train the power lifts is plain old high

volume/high intensity exercises and a lot of ice baths. I know will

probably disagree with me on this one but for me Smolov and Sheiko know what

they are talking about and they don't talk about bands or chains. Keep in mind

this is an old man's two cents worth and I could be wrong.

Eddie White

Blue Springs, Mo.

[Guest guest]

Though the weight may be constant, the force may be different, depending on the

acceleration at each moment. At least during the changeover from eccentric to

concentric vice versa the acceleration, hence the force, will be resp. higher

and lower.

Practically, this study may give more insight:

The Effects of Combining Elastic and Free Weight Resistance on Strength and

Power in Athletes.

Original Research Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 22(2):567-574,

March 2008.

, Corey E; Sforzo, A; Sigg, A

Abstract:

This study was undertaken to determine whether combined elastic and free weight

resistance (CR) provides different strength and power adaptations than free

weight resistance (FWR) training alone. Forty-four young (age 20 +/- 1 years),

resistance-trained (4 +/- 2 years' experience) subjects were recruited from

men's basketball and wrestling teams and women's basketball and hockey teams at

Cornell University. Subjects were stratified according to team, then randomly

assigned to the control (C; n = 21) or experimental group (E; n = 23). Before

and after 7 weeks of resistance training, subjects were tested for lean body

mass, 1 repetition maximum back squat and bench press, and peak and average

power. Both C and E groups performed identical workouts except that E used CR

(i.e., elastic resistance) for the back squat and bench press, whereas the C

group used FWR alone. CR was performed using an elastic bungee cord attached to

a standard barbell loaded with

plates. Elastic tension was accounted for in an attempt to equalize the total

work done by each group. Statistical analyses revealed significant (P < 0.05)

between-group differences after training. Compared with C, improvement for E was

nearly three times greater for back squat (16.47 +/- 5.67 vs. 6.84 +/- 4.42 kg

increase), two times greater for bench press (6.68 +/- 3.41 vs. 3.34 +/- 2.67 kg

increase), and nearly three times greater for average power (68.55 +/- 84.35 vs.

23.66 +/- 40.56 watt increase). Training with CR may be better than FWR alone

for developing lower and upper body strength, and lower body power in

resistance-trained individuals. Long-term effects are unclear, but CR training

makes a meaningful contribution in the short term to performance adaptations of

experienced athletes.

Cheers,

Huizing

The Netherlands

=========================================

Training With Bands

Greetings Everyone,

I have recently started experimenting with bands. I want to share a few

ideas just to test my understanding.

If someone squats say 300 pounds for 5 reps, he/she is squatting a constant

weight. Put another way, the resistance is static. If he attaches a band

to each side of the bar, two things happen: The static resistance is

reduced. He will not squat the same 300 pounds for 5 reps with the bands.

He may have to use 250 pounds plus the bands. On the other hand, dynamic

resistance is added; i.e., the resistance of the bands increases as the

squatter moves toward completion of the lift. Of course, at the bottom of

the lift (e.g., coming out of the parallel position) the lift is easier

because, at that point, there is less weight on the bar and the bands are

offering minimal resistance.

So, why use bands? From the perspective of a competitive lifter, it seems

to me that the reason for training with bands is to improve power in the

lock-out or completion stage of a lift. It's a kind of specialized

training. But what about the person who is training for general development

of strength and mass? For that person, one issue is the ability to change

the pattern of stress in order to maximize adaptation and minimize

accommodation. There are, of course, a number of ways to do that. For any

given exercise--in this case, the squat--he can vary the relation between

intensity and volume (250 for 10 reps, then 300 for 5 reps, then 350 for 2-3

reps, etc.), he can change the exercise (squats for a few weeks, then front

squats, then belt squats, etc.), or he can change the pattern of stress by

moving from a static resistance (no bands) to a dynamic resistance (bands)

version of the same exercise (squats).

What I am debating is whether that " dynamic resistance " version of the

exercise is a worthwhile way to change the pattern of stress, for the

purpose of avoiding accommodation. Or, with reference to my example, does

it make more sense to do the squats using the 300 pounds through a full

range of movement, then, after a period, change the exercise, leaving bands

out of the mix?

I suppose one other possibility with respect to changing the pattern of

resistance would be to do some sets with bands (to maximize resistance at

the upper end of the squat) and some sets that start at the lower position

of the exercise from a dead stop (to maximize the effort at the lower end).

At any rate, thanks for lending an ear. I would be interested in any

comments.

===========================

[Guest guest]

I don't disagree with high volume and high intensity - but that can be expressed

by using a higher percentage of 1 rep max and using more reps, not the lower

percentages Sheiko usually employs through most of the program. If you have a

different form than the one published generally, I'd enjoy reading the program

for information. I use a high intensity program for deadlift, and a medium one

on raw bench. Squat is a different matter, I tend to limit my sets as I'm

gaining most of my strength on dl and need form rather than to gut out longer

sets on sq - long legs and a previous knee injury makes me loathe to endanger my

entire program on sq risk. I think the reason for some of the more intense sq

and bp programs in tandem is the build of the lifters using them actually.

Westside being a prime example of a program generally speaking aimed at the

sq/bp specialists and not having as much help to someone more built to pull.

Your mileage may truly vary on bands and chains - I know a guy here who actually

lost ground on his bench to his disgust using bands. He went from 425 raw to

365 that was a struggle to lock out, and that was that for him. Didn't help his

shirted lifts either. To hear him tell it, bands are the Antichrist... and yes,

he was setting it up properly etc. Simply didn't work for the guy. He went off

them and returned to his regular sets and his strength was back in a few months.

Then there are people who swear by bands, chains, and boards. To properly use

these items requires at least a training partner OR as many as 3-4 people in

order to get your workout done though... if you must train alone by way of your

location (say in your garage or basement) or your situation on timing or other

things (no team or training partner), you cannot just pick up a civilian off the

sidelines to help without risking your neck - literally, in the case of assisted

bench moves!

I've seen some poor results on Sheiko but hey, everybody is different and again,

mileage may truly differ. Smolov I haven't seen anybody use around here yet, so

that's one I'm not familiar with myself.

Unless that's the famous " improve your bench in 6 weeks Russian program " I've

heard of a few times but never seen a coherent copy in evidence.... it's always

something about a former Eastern Bloc nation and a miracle cure <grin>. Program

probably isn't any more novel than 21's which crop up in a certain bb mag from

time to time....

I agree in principle that moving more weight is a function of doing a lot of

reps, with proper form, and fixing any weak points you can find to move more

weight. Bands can help on that partial lift progression BUT you must have good

spotting help to ensure safety as the bands will make the bar highly

unpredictable in its movements. Best analogy there is that a band lift can

move as crazy as a new shirt lift, where the bar does things you can't see

coming and you want a hand on the bar just in case... everything from

handcuffing to complete groove failures on a band bench for example.

But if there was ever a move I personally suffered through during my captivity

with the bad coach, it was the notion you HAD to do certain things...and one he

had a jones for was suspended band benches. Getting crushed by a weight and

screamed at on a narrow bench parked in a rack with a bad handoff and no shirt

to protect my shoulders probably wasn't what Westside had in mind there... Just

because there's a band involved does not mean the move is useful nor safe!

Bands do allow some egos to get flexed though, as the weights are usually more

than the person can do without the band's assistance.

It's good to experiment when you have the time, but requiring everyone to do

bands or other things is just as foolish as requiring all your athletes to do

the same style on a move. Programs, like form and other variables, must be

fitted to the athlete, not the other way around. To use bands in the bench and

squat in particular require alert, strong, and experienced spotters to make the

risk acceptable.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

I have trained with bands and chains for many years and in a variety of ways on

all of the power lifts. Elite fitness has numerous ways you can use them. I

honestly cannot say that they have improved my lifts over any other exercise. I

think for my age and size I am one of the best dead lifters in the world and I

have never used bands to train the dead lift with any success.

I like benching with bands and a close grip for the triceps as well as chains

and I do like bands with the box squat however both have injured me in over

using them. The most success I have had that had tremendous impact on my lifts

came from learning and doing the Sheiko routines.

I put over 50 pounds on my squat and dead lift at age 55. By using Metal Militia

training and learning to use my shirt better I put about 30 pounds on my bench.

I can't say that bands ever did anything for me like that. Each of us is

different and I aspire to much of West side training but I have to be honest

" Comrade if you want to lift more lift more " , as my Russian friends say. The

best way in my humble opinion to train the power lifts is plain old high

volume/high intensity exercises and a lot of ice baths. I know will

probably disagree with me on this one but for me Smolov and Sheiko know what

they are talking about and they don't talk about bands or chains. Keep in mind

this is an old man's two cents worth and I could be wrong.

Eddie White

Blue Springs, Mo.

[Guest guest]

I haven't done much training with bands. I used them for squatting in

high school, but don't remember much from back then. All I know is

that we weren't using a box, and Louie talks a lot about how

when you use box squats and bands, the bands accelerate the bar down

and when you hit the box the kinetic energy is transferred into the

body as reversal strength, causing you to raise proportionately as

fast as you went down. Anyway, I haven't used them on the squat or

bench press since high school, but I have used them on speeds pulls,

and it helped improve my lockout. I didn't have a jump stretch

platform or anyting, so I just draped the bands over the bar and

stepped on them, which offered resistance at the top, but not the

bottom (unless I doubled them up, but then the tension was too much

for what I can lift at the moment). Other then that, bands have been

excellent for supplemental work.

With chains, I did some dynamic effort cycles and they didn't seem to

do much of anything for my squat. I started using them for max effort

though and ascending 5x5's and that has helped quite a bit. Much more

effective then the speed work was for me.

Just my two cents.

Luc Lefebvre

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada