Re: Death rates in people with BMIs over 30?

[Guest guest]

>

> Subject: Death rates in people with BMIs over 30?

> To: Supertraining

> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 2:37 PM

> What are the statistics on death rates in

> people with BMIs over 30 who are physically active?

> Conventional wisdom is they are lower than in inactive

> people but maybe not.

> I am a 61 year old masters discus thrower and have competed

> and lifted weights since 1963 (with only a few short

> breaks). My BMI is 31, but I am in good shape. During the

> past few years, eight friends died at relatively young

> ages (55-66 yr), all of whom were world class strength

> athletes and physically active. While eight observations

> don't mean much, it makes me nervous.

>

> I only know of one study that examined death rates in

> former strength athletes: 

>

> Parssinen M, Kujala U,

>

> Vartiainen E, Sarna S and Seppala T. Increased premature

> mortality of

>

> competitive powerlifters suspected to have used anabolic

> agents. Int J Sports Med 21: 225-227, 2000. While

> interesting, it suffered from a small sample size. Some

> young researcher should do a large scale epidemiological

> study on longevity and health in old strength athletes.

>

> Tom Fahey

> California State Univ, Chico

****

You make an excellent point Tom. The problem with weight lifter with BMI great

than 30 is that there are no studies to prove that they are less likely to die a

premature death.

Until some one does a big longitudinal study on resistance trained atheletes,

such as the one done on endurance trained athletes (30 years) there is no way to

know for sure with the long term effects are.

One concern I have is the tendency for resistance training to bring on

concentric cardiac hypertrophy. While it is purported to healthy and can be

distinguished form pathological concentric hypertrophy there is not data.

Cardiac hypertrophy can lead to cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death.

The problem with concentric cardiac hypertrophy is that while the heart muscle

gets bigger the capillaries may not increase proportionately as happens with

other muscles enlarged through resistance training. This lack of capillaries

could lead to ischemia even in the presence of clean arteries and subsequently

cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

[Guest guest]

About 25 years ago, I gathered echocardiography data on world class strength

athletes. Although the number of subjects was small (10 subjects), there was a

moderate correlation (r=0.6) between 1-RM squat and interventricular septum

diameter.  One of the athletes died a few weeks ago at age 55.At age 30, his

best squat was more than 800 pounds (no suits in those days; best squat in the

group), threw the shot about 68 feet (Canadian record at the time) and competed

in the first World's Strongest Man competition. He also had the largest

interventricular septum diameter (18 mm) in the group. In general, the strongest

athletes had asymmetrical hypertrophy, with large interventricular septum

diameters and normal posterior wall thickness.

I think that Dr. Giarnella's point about cardiac hypertrophy vs blood supply is

important. I am not aware of any study showing increased coronary blood flow in

resistance trained athletes. As I understand it, the development of coronary

collateral circulation occurs only in ischemic hearts. 

In the late 1970s, I attended a week-long veterinary medicine conference in

Squaw Valley. One of the lectures was by Ross, coauthors of one of the

classic papers on cardiac biophysics: Braunwald E, Ross J Jr, Sonnenblick E

H. Mechanisms of Contraction of the Normal and failing heart. N Engl J Med.

Medical Progress Series. 1967; 277;794-800;853-63;910-20;962-71;1012-22. Ross

stated at the time that he thought heavy weight lifting could have long-term

0negative consequences for the heart. Perhaps he was right.

Tom Fahey

Cal State Univ, Chico

===============================================

Death rates in people with BMIs over 30?

> To: Supertraining

> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 2:37 PM

> What are the statistics on death rates in

> people with BMIs over 30 who are physically active?

> Conventional wisdom is they are lower than in inactive

> people but maybe not.

> I am a 61 year old masters discus thrower and have competed

> and lifted weights since 1963 (with only a few short

> breaks). My BMI is 31, but I am in good shape. During the

> past few years, eight friends died at relatively young

> ages (55-66 yr), all of whom were world class strength

> athletes and physically active. While eight observations

> don't mean much, it makes me nervous.

>

> I only know of one study that examined death rates in

> former strength athletes: 

>

> Parssinen M, Kujala U,

>

> Vartiainen E, Sarna S and Seppala T. Increased premature

> mortality of

>

> competitive powerlifters suspected to have used anabolic

> agents. Int J Sports Med 21: 225-227, 2000. While

> interesting, it suffered from a small sample size. Some

> young researcher should do a large scale epidemiological

> study on longevity and health in old strength athletes.

>

> Tom Fahey

> California State Univ, Chico

****

You make an excellent point Tom. The problem with weight lifter with BMI great

than 30 is that there are no studies to prove that they are less likely to die a

premature death.

Until some one does a big longitudinal study on resistance trained atheletes,

such as the one done on endurance trained athletes (30 years) there is no way to

know for sure with the long term effects are.

One concern I have is the tendency for resistance training to bring on

concentric cardiac hypertrophy. While it is purported to healthy and can be

distinguished form pathological concentric hypertrophy there is not data.

Cardiac hypertrophy can lead to cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death.

The problem with concentric cardiac hypertrophy is that while the heart muscle

gets bigger the capillaries may not increase proportionately as happens with

other muscles enlarged through resistance training. This lack of capillaries

could lead to ischemia even in the presence of clean arteries and subsequently

cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

============================

[Guest guest]

I ran across this paper on the topic:

Decreased Muscle Mass and Increased Central Adiposity are Independently Related

to Mortality in Older Men

S Goya Wannamethee, A Gerald Shaper, Lucy Lennon, and H Whincup

ABSTRACT

Background: Aging is associated with significant changes in body composition.

Body mass index (BMI; in kg/m2) is not an accurate indicator of overweight and

obesity in the elderly.

Objective: We examined the relation between other anthropometric indexes of

body composition (both muscle mass and body fat) and all-cause mortality in men

aged 60–79 y. Design: The study was a prospective study of 4107 men aged

60–79y with no diagnosis of heart failure and who were followed for a

mean period of 6 y, during which time there were 713 deaths. Results:

Underweight men (BMI   18.5) had exceptionally high mortality rates. After the

exclusion of these men, increased adiposity

[bMI, waist circumference (WC), and waist-to-hip ratio] showed little relation

with mortality after adjustment for lifestyle characteristics. Muscle mass

[indicated by midarm muscle circumference

(MAMC)] was significantly and inversely associated with mortality. After

adjustment for MAMC, obesity markers, particularly high WC ( 102 cm) and

waist-to-hip ratio (top quartile), were associated with increased mortality. A

composite measure of MAMC and WC most effectively predicted mortality. Men with

low WC ( 102 cm) and above-median muscle mass showed the lowest mortality

risk. Men with WC   102 cm and above-median muscle mass showed

significantly increased mortality [age-adjusted relative risk:

1.36;95%CI: 1.07, 1.74), and this increased to 1.55 (95% CI: 1.01, 2.39) in

those with WC   102 and low MAMC. Conclusion:

The findings suggest that the combined use of both WC and MAMC provides simple

measures of body composition to assess mortality risk in older men. Am J Clin

Nutr 2007;86:1339–46.

Tom Fahey

California State University, Chico

Chico, CA USA

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