Re: Plopping, non-compliance in school & placement question

[Guest guest]

Hi Christy,

It appears that the school is focusing on behavior rather than looking at his

school day, reviewing the educational program. I think you would benefit from an

independent ed consultant with expertise in inclusion and autism to do a

comprehensive evaluation including program review and observations, request it

in an IEP meeting. Do not agree to a behaviorist. It may give you a better

picture of what goes on in his day. It certainly doesn't seem right. I do not

believe the work is being modified correctly or he is engaged in the classroom.

He would not be trying to run out the door. Does the classroom teacher use peer

tutoring? Does he sit together with his peers? Is an aide velcroed to his side?

Are weekly team support meetings to review modifications done weekly? Are you

invited to these meetings?Does he have a sensory diet in the classroom?  Why is

he being pulled out with an inclusion specialist? The inclusion specialist

should be doing pull ins not

pull outs. Inclusion means being included and educated with your class

together. The inclusion specialist should be co-teaching in the classroom.  Is

he doing classwork separately at a table with an aide? Have you observed his

day? Behavior is communication. He is telling you something isn't right. If the

school had good intentions they would be reviewing his program than focusing on

just behavior. Been there. They are not practicing inclusion with proper

supports and services but using the name to justify the program.

Charlyne

Subject: Plopping, non-compliance in school & placement question

To:

Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 1:02 AM

Hello all. I am in need of your sage advice.

My son is fully included in second grade with a 1:1. They are having major

issues this year

with his plopping/yelling/ non-compliance in class. He has always exhibited

these

behaviors, but they seem to be more of a problem (for the school) this year. I

know 2nd

grade is tougher than first and the expectations are higher, but they are really

cracking

down on his behaviors and even though they have good intentions and are trying

everything they can think of to give him breaks, picture schedule, rewards etc,

they are

beginning to groom me (I am starting to think) for placing him in more of a life

skills

environment.

Have any of you succeeded in keeping your DS/ASD children in an inclusion

setting? We

are starting to wonder at what time going back into a smaller self-contained

classroom

would be the best decision for him. He has gotten SO MUCH out of inclusion and

peer-

modeling, I would hate to lose that, but the school is saying that modifying the

curriculum

is not a problem, but his behaviors will keep him from being able to continue in

class.

My idea is that his 'behaviors' are part of him and his diagnosis, and you can't

have the

attitude of 'once we get rid of those behaviors (ie: cure that pesky autism) we

can start to

educate him'.

We are having a very difficult time trying to find any consistent antecedents to

the

behavior (plopping to the floor, yelling, running for the door, general

avoidance goodies).

There seems to be no pattern of behavior. Most of the time he freaks out with

crowds and

noise, like an assembly, but occasionally he is fine. Usually he loves going to

speech and

pull-out with the inclusion specialist, but sometimes he 'plops' on his way

there,

sometimes on his way back to class. Transitions have always been difficult.

We are all so frustrated. Do you have any tips for managing this behavior? How

to you

manage the dreaded stop drop and plop?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Christy

[Guest guest]

I can relate to this when my son was younger.

My son did not succeed here in inclusion at this age, but in your

son's case knowing on what is out there compared to back in my son's

days. There are other trials that could be tried besides on what has

already been tried should you seek to the last resort of placing him

in a life-skills classroom.

Charlyne would be the best person who travels this journey with

inclusion. Hope you hear from her.

Thought I share this even though you need some solutions now but it

will help hopefully at home and out in the community.

Book is called:

No More Meltdowns: Positive Strategies for Managing and Preventing

Out-Of-Control Behavior [iLLUSTRATED] (Paperback)

by Jed Baker (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/More-Meltdowns-Strategies-Out-Control/dp/1932565620

Other reading-

For the best example of how a person with autism thinks, read Temple

Grandin,Ph.D.'s book " Thinking In Pictures. " Dr. Grandin has autism

and write about her experiences from inside of autism. She has

Asperger's Disorder which is a form of autism that has some skills

that others with ASD may not have.

Autism is a neurological disorder that the child is born with.

Research by Dr. Margaret Bauman has shown that children with autism

have immature development in certain parts of the brain. It is caused

by abnormal development and growth of brain regions involved with

emotion and the processing of sensory input from the eyes, nose and

skin. Symptoms of autism usually become evident at age two or three.

Some of the most common sysmptoms are:

* Lack of speech

* No interest in people

* No eye contact

* Oversensitivity to noise

* Appearance of deafness

* Temper tantrums

My Experiences with Visual Thinking Sensory Problems and Communication

Difficulties

http://www.autism.org/temple/visual.html

Wanted to wish you well on this mission, hope something works out for

your son to stay within the inclusion setting.

Irma,20,DS/ASD

>

> Hello all. I am in need of your sage advice.

>

> My son is fully included in second grade with a 1:1. They are

having major issues this year

> with his plopping/yelling/non-compliance in class. He has always

exhibited these

> behaviors, but they seem to be more of a problem (for the school)

this year. I know 2nd

> grade is tougher than first and the expectations are higher, but

they are really cracking

> down on his behaviors and even though they have good intentions and

are trying

> everything they can think of to give him breaks, picture schedule,

rewards etc, they are

> beginning to groom me (I am starting to think) for placing him in

more of a life skills

> environment.

>

> Have any of you succeeded in keeping your DS/ASD children in an

inclusion setting? We

> are starting to wonder at what time going back into a smaller

self-contained classroom

> would be the best decision for him. He has gotten SO MUCH out of

inclusion and peer-

> modeling, I would hate to lose that, but the school is saying that

modifying the curriculum

> is not a problem, but his behaviors will keep him from being able to

continue in class.

>

> My idea is that his 'behaviors' are part of him and his diagnosis,

and you can't have the

> attitude of 'once we get rid of those behaviors (ie: cure that

pesky autism) we can start to

> educate him'.

>

> We are having a very difficult time trying to find any consistent

antecedents to the

> behavior (plopping to the floor, yelling, running for the door,

general avoidance goodies).

> There seems to be no pattern of behavior. Most of the time he

freaks out with crowds and

> noise, like an assembly, but occasionally he is fine. Usually he

loves going to speech and

> pull-out with the inclusion specialist, but sometimes he 'plops' on

his way there,

> sometimes on his way back to class. Transitions have always been

difficult.

>

> We are all so frustrated. Do you have any tips for managing this

behavior? How to you

> manage the dreaded stop drop and plop?

>

> Thanks for letting me vent.

> Christy

>

[Guest guest]

Yep Charlyne,

You are just awesome, totally agree here on what you had posted.

Hope Zeb is doing well.

Irma

[Guest guest]

Hi Christy,

My daughter is now in grade three and has been fully included since

preschool. The behaviours you describe are very familiar to me. In

fact it is only this year that Sophie has stopped doing the stop, drop

and flop. I think it is probably maturity more than anything else

which has made her stop.

We had some success in the past using motivators to get her up and

moving. She used to be obsessed with sticky things like tape and

blutack and one of her better teaching assistants had the great idea

of sticking blutack up on the door frame and usually she would get up

to reach for it and then start moving.

Sometimes she would walk if other kids in the class encouraged her.

But honestly, when her class walked anywhere outside the school

grounds (eg to swimming lessons at the local pool) I used to have to

go to school to drive her because there was no guarantee that she

would walk the whole way.

And it wasn't just at school. Sophie used to do the stop, drop and

flop with us at home or when we went out. Same with the bad

behaviours. All of the behaviours improved at the same time at home

and school which is why I think maturity played a large part in it.

The teacher's attitude plays a big part in getting through these early

years. Her Kindergarten teacher wanted to " cure " her before she could

include her and was stressed the whole year trying to change her. We

were constantly pressured to remove her from the school.

Her grade one teacher was much more accepting of her, including her in

the class, helping the other kids understand and addressing her

behavioural issues calmly.

Grade 2 was not wonderful - I want to wipe the memory of it from my

brain actually, but Grade 3 has been brilliant. Once again because of

a fantastic teacher and really good teaching assistants.

At a particularly low point I happened to come across the DVD

" Educating " about a boy with DS who transfers to an inclusive

setting in 4th grade. He doesn't have autism, but many of his

behaviours were so familiar!!! It made me feel so much better about

our experience at school. I highly recommend it. It is so nice to

know we are not alone and that inclusion can work.

Lisette

in Australia

[Guest guest]

i agree, its partly a maturity issue. is 17years old and its been years

since he's done the drop flop wet noodle thing. I think it was around 3-4th

grade too for him to stop this. We used lots of incentives to get him to walk,

Iowa City figured out it was a transition issue, so we started with transition

items to distract him from the actual transitioning and as an item of comfort

too. For it was strings, cars and his woody dolls. To this day, even at

highschool he has his backpack full of his transition/comfort toys per his pick

and he takes that pack to every class, knowing they are there if he needs them,

infact he wont part with the pack. Also, stick with the picture schedules,

social stories and timers, they help reinforce the changing of scenery.

shawnahttp://sewshawna.spaces.live.comhttp://sewshawna.blogspot.com

To: @...: lmfarmjs@...: Fri, 19 Sep 2008

10:58:55 +0000Subject: Re: Plopping, non-compliance in school &

placement question

Hi Christy,My daughter is now in grade three and has been fully included

sincepreschool. The behaviours you describe are very familiar to me. Infact it

is only this year that Sophie has stopped doing the stop, dropand flop. I think

it is probably maturity more than anything elsewhich has made her stop.We had

some success in the past using motivators to get her up andmoving. She used to

be obsessed with sticky things like tape andblutack and one of her better

teaching assistants had the great ideaof sticking blutack up on the door frame

and usually she would get upto reach for it and then start moving.Sometimes she

would walk if other kids in the class encouraged her.But honestly, when her

class walked anywhere outside the schoolgrounds (eg to swimming lessons at the

local pool) I used to have togo to school to drive her because there was no

guarantee that shewould walk the whole way.And it wasn't just at school. Sophie

used to do the stop, drop andflop with us at home or when we went out. Same with

the badbehaviours. All of the behaviours improved at the same time at homeand

school which is why I think maturity played a large part in it.The teacher's

attitude plays a big part in getting through these earlyyears. Her Kindergarten

teacher wanted to " cure " her before she couldinclude her and was stressed the

whole year trying to change her. Wewere constantly pressured to remove her from

the school. Her grade one teacher was much more accepting of her, including her

inthe class, helping the other kids understand and addressing herbehavioural

issues calmly.Grade 2 was not wonderful - I want to wipe the memory of it from

mybrain actually, but Grade 3 has been brilliant. Once again because ofa

fantastic teacher and really good teaching assistants.At a particularly low

point I happened to come across the DVD " Educating " about a boy with DS who

transfers to an inclusivesetting in 4th grade. He doesn't have autism, but many

of hisbehaviours were so familiar!!! It made me feel so much better aboutour

experience at school. I highly recommend it. It is so nice toknow we are not

alone and that inclusion can work.Lisettein Australia