Re: What about children that are known to harm others - KEEP Posting.

December 7, 2008

Sara and all list members,

Please keep this 'loop' of posts going - you are providing compelling

evidence that 'Change' must occur and you are leaving not only the new

Presidential Admin. but as well you state Senators NO CHOICE but to

respond. What is being told is the TRUTH. This MUST stop. I thought

a decade ago we had a good handle on this type of non education. In

many states " Child Protective Services " would be very involved in

these cases. I know other states have diff. name for the same type of

gov't agency. They will charge a teacher, Director, Principal, or

even the superintendent of schools with crimes if you document these

cases. The missing element that I'm not seeing alot of on the List is

the State and District's name. That's all we need.

We don't need to expose people so they are retaliated against

(parents), but we do need to expose what I consider not only abuse but

a 'gross negligence' by the states that allow this to happen.

When I type 'allow' I do NOT mean they know about it - it's not up to

me or you to know this is happening the burden falls directly upon the

State dept. of Ed, and then the Gov. of the State. The Political

influence you may be bringing forward with these posts is monumental.

There is no excuses, there is no reasoning for it, and there is

definitely recourse for this type of sickening behavior that is being

displayed. And we thought our children need behavior Modification..

these people need alot of things - and they are called 'Bars' aka a

prison cell. Keep the loop going and try to include district

names/state.. if you saw my 'inbox' you would need motion sickness

meds. Peace be with you and your children.

E. , Sr. The Office of Advocacy for Autistic Children

>

> > , Recently I was told my son is going to have to move out

of a

> > classroom with a teacher he loves because of a new student coming

> > into this class. Why? because this student is being placed in the

> > best possible classroom for him and he is a child that is known to

> > lash out at others. It is not fair that this school district does not

> > deal with behavior problems and that my child would have to move to

> > another class just because my son could be a target. Now let me

> > explain more. Last year my son was bit by another child at school. I

> > saw this child in action and he was like watching a vampire. They put

> > this child into a classroom with children that were in wheelchairs,

> > and that did not know how to protect themselves. I had a meeting with

> > the school and the school board because they wanted to move my child

> > out of a classroom that he was requested to be in by me. The school

> > board asked me what I thought they should do with the other child. I

> > said he needs behavior management and should be isolated if he is a

> > kids that bites. Now my child has a strep infection because of this

> > child biting my son. I know that time out rooms and a restraints are

> > the topic here but we also have to address affectively what can be

> > done for children with problems behaviors they have a right to

> > education to. However they should not be put in rooms with children

> > that do not know how to defend themselves.Example kids in

> > wheelchairs, blind, or mentally challenge kids that do not know how

> > to defend themselves. If a child is to succeed he needs a ABA

> > therapist to work on the problems and not just throw the child in a

> > time out room. That will accomplish nothing. I am with you on the way

> > these timeout rooms or restraints are used. If I ever found out my

> > child was restrained without a therapist setting there with him and

> > showing him how to act, you would see me on national news. I warned

> > his schools along time ago that I better never come in and see my son

> > sitting in a restrictive chair/with restraints. That is not how you

> > train any child. Cyndi B

> >

>

> --

> Sara - Life is a journey- we choose the path.

>

December 7, 2008

To All,

Sometimes I need to throw some humor in a non humorous situation.

I can not believe the size of the 'rock' I just overturned across the

nation with the original post about Time out rooms and other illegal

forms of restraint and abuse.

A few decades ago there was a joke that went around.. Many of you

probably know it.. What is one attorney thrown to the bottom of the

Ocean ? " A Good Start " . My revision of this joke is very

serious.. " What is an abusive non educating school district/state? "

The Answer - " Without Federal Funding VERY SOON " . If the states

want to allow this to continue.. They can go ahead until they are

given nothing in Fed funds for Anything. Our New Presidential Admin.

will not stand for this abuse. I guess these people/Admin's/States

think nobody is watching. We're not only watching... we're setting

the bait for the trap that is already there. They have fallen into

this trap and are rapidly eating the bait daily. Now lets let 'The

Hammer Fall' .... Our children that are without sin will be edified.

Those that do harm to them and have done harm to them will pay with

not our 'revenge', but with justice.. not just here on earth.. but

after we leave this world filled with so many that are 'of' it, and

not 'in it' as we are. May Peace be with you.

E. , Sr. The Office of Advocacy for Autistic Children

> >

> > > , Recently I was told my son is going to have to move out

> of a

> > > classroom with a teacher he loves because of a new student coming

> > > into this class. Why? because this student is being placed in the

> > > best possible classroom for him and he is a child that is known to

> > > lash out at others. It is not fair that this school district

does not

> > > deal with behavior problems and that my child would have to move to

> > > another class just because my son could be a target. Now let me

> > > explain more. Last year my son was bit by another child at school. I

> > > saw this child in action and he was like watching a vampire.

They put

> > > this child into a classroom with children that were in wheelchairs,

> > > and that did not know how to protect themselves. I had a meeting

with

> > > the school and the school board because they wanted to move my child

> > > out of a classroom that he was requested to be in by me. The school

> > > board asked me what I thought they should do with the other child. I

> > > said he needs behavior management and should be isolated if he is a

> > > kids that bites. Now my child has a strep infection because of this

> > > child biting my son. I know that time out rooms and a restraints are

> > > the topic here but we also have to address affectively what can be

> > > done for children with problems behaviors they have a right to

> > > education to. However they should not be put in rooms with children

> > > that do not know how to defend themselves.Example kids in

> > > wheelchairs, blind, or mentally challenge kids that do not know how

> > > to defend themselves. If a child is to succeed he needs a ABA

> > > therapist to work on the problems and not just throw the child in a

> > > time out room. That will accomplish nothing. I am with you on

the way

> > > these timeout rooms or restraints are used. If I ever found out my

> > > child was restrained without a therapist setting there with him and

> > > showing him how to act, you would see me on national news. I warned

> > > his schools along time ago that I better never come in and see

my son

> > > sitting in a restrictive chair/with restraints. That is not how you

> > > train any child. Cyndi B

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Sara - Life is a journey- we choose the path.

> >

December 7, 2008

>

> Sara and all list members,

>

> Please keep this 'loop' of posts going - you are providing compelling

>

Hi ,

Just exactly what are you planning to DO with this information, and

HOW is our membership posting information helping you? I understand

you're " gathering information, " but how about tell us a tangible

outcome of members' sharing their heart-felt stories and valuable

time away from their families to assist you?

I've gone back and read your early posts. Although I have no problem

with the discussion, it seems to me there are more productive ways for

you to get this information from people, including htis membership.

For example, what about using an online meeting tool such as Go to

Meeting (www.gotomeeting.com) to have exactly THIS conversation?

Sometimes focusing on things without looking for the constructive

solution is not exactly conducive to a positive outlook and can

culminate in adversarial advocacy and frustration for list members.

What I mean is that it's fine for folks to share - particularly if

they're in the midst of things - but to encourage a list to dwell on

topics that can bring up emotional trauma for us or our kids is

draining. I know it is for me.

AS the " Senior Officer " of your organization, can you not invite the

people you are learning from HERE to an online meeting or conference

call that is then transcribed? Such tools exist for small fees - many

for free for a time.

Your post feels a bit like you are using us to get information that is

likely not that difficult to obtain. It feels a little like we're

being used for your benefit.

I understand you have a productive cause. Use the tools available to

you to gather information in a professional and productive manner.

Take care,

Joan Medlen

List owner

December 7, 2008

, So eloquently put. Let justice be done.Cyndi B

>

> To All,

>

> Sometimes I need to throw some humor in a non humorous situation.

> I can not believe the size of the 'rock' I just overturned across

the

> nation with the original post about Time out rooms and other illegal

> forms of restraint and abuse.

> A few decades ago there was a joke that went around.. Many of you

> probably know it.. What is one attorney thrown to the bottom of the

> Ocean ? " A Good Start " . My revision of this joke is very

> serious.. " What is an abusive non educating school

district/state? "

> The Answer - " Without Federal Funding VERY SOON " . If the states

> want to allow this to continue.. They can go ahead until they are

> given nothing in Fed funds for Anything. Our New Presidential

Admin.

> will not stand for this abuse. I guess these people/Admin's/States

> think nobody is watching. We're not only watching... we're setting

> the bait for the trap that is already there. They have fallen into

> this trap and are rapidly eating the bait daily. Now lets let 'The

> Hammer Fall' .... Our children that are without sin will be edified.

> Those that do harm to them and have done harm to them will pay with

> not our 'revenge', but with justice.. not just here on earth.. but

> after we leave this world filled with so many that are 'of' it, and

> not 'in it' as we are. May Peace be with you.

> E. , Sr. The Office of Advocacy for Autistic

Children

>

> > >

> > > > , Recently I was told my son is going to have to

move out

> > of a

> > > > classroom with a teacher he loves because of a new student

coming

> > > > into this class. Why? because this student is being placed in

the

> > > > best possible classroom for him and he is a child that is

known to

> > > > lash out at others. It is not fair that this school district

> does not

> > > > deal with behavior problems and that my child would have to

move to

> > > > another class just because my son could be a target. Now let

me

> > > > explain more. Last year my son was bit by another child at

school. I

> > > > saw this child in action and he was like watching a vampire.

> They put

> > > > this child into a classroom with children that were in

wheelchairs,

> > > > and that did not know how to protect themselves. I had a

meeting

> with

> > > > the school and the school board because they wanted to move

my child

> > > > out of a classroom that he was requested to be in by me. The

school

> > > > board asked me what I thought they should do with the other

child. I

> > > > said he needs behavior management and should be isolated if

he is a

> > > > kids that bites. Now my child has a strep infection because

of this

> > > > child biting my son. I know that time out rooms and a

restraints are

> > > > the topic here but we also have to address affectively what

can be

> > > > done for children with problems behaviors they have a right to

> > > > education to. However they should not be put in rooms with

children

> > > > that do not know how to defend themselves.Example kids in

> > > > wheelchairs, blind, or mentally challenge kids that do not

know how

> > > > to defend themselves. If a child is to succeed he needs a ABA

> > > > therapist to work on the problems and not just throw the

child in a

> > > > time out room. That will accomplish nothing. I am with you on

> the way

> > > > these timeout rooms or restraints are used. If I ever found

out my

> > > > child was restrained without a therapist setting there with

him and

> > > > showing him how to act, you would see me on national news. I

warned

> > > > his schools along time ago that I better never come in and see

> my son

> > > > sitting in a restrictive chair/with restraints. That is not

how you

> > > > train any child. Cyndi B

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Sara - Life is a journey- we choose the path.

> > >

December 8, 2008

Joan,

Please understand that I am ALSO spending valuable time (alot of it)

away from my family, and my kids including one with Autism. I have

explained thoroughly what the posts and offlist emails will be used

for. I am not 'using' anyone. I am compiling data to go along with a

proposed Presidential Act that will hopefully slow down the rate of

this non compliance and sometimes outright abuse of our kids.

I can handle critical statements or emails towards me, I deal with

School district Attorney's and even State Attorneys quite often. I

understand there are many ways of gathering this information. As I

stated in the post I had no idea that I would get this much

overwhelming feedback. Because of this a contact I have has asked

that I compile it by state.

I definitely respect your position and would hope you would

respect mine as well. I don't think a whole lot that goes on that

needs Advocacy is 'positive' - which is very unfortunate for not only

the listmembers here but as well for all of us parents.

It seems as if you would like to 'cut off' this request by your

very critical post. If that is so please do it without stating I am

using you or your listmembers. I feel it was a 'low blow' to state

what you did to me about that. I could walk away from all of this but

I refuse to. It's about our kids and not about us. I hope you

understand where I am coming from. If you have indeed read my

previous posts I can see no reason why you would block alot of parents

from getting out information that is crucial to stop the abuse that is

happening in our schools. I am also a moderator and listowner for a

private list for the Office of Advocacy, one thing I don't do is tell

people what to post. If I don't like the post I will contact the

person via offline email, which you easily could have done. Again,

This is not about me or you, this is about kids that are in need of

intervention and somebody has to be bold enough to face those that can

make the change. If you want me off your list you can go ahead and

take me off of it. I feel that it would be injustice to our children

but after all - you OWN it.

Sincerely,

E. , Sr. The Office of Advocacy for Autistic Children

> >

> > Sara and all list members,

> >

> > Please keep this 'loop' of posts going - you are providing compelling

> >

>

> Hi ,

>

> Just exactly what are you planning to DO with this information, and

> HOW is our membership posting information helping you? I understand

> you're " gathering information, " but how about tell us a tangible

> outcome of members' sharing their heart-felt stories and valuable

> time away from their families to assist you?

>

> I've gone back and read your early posts. Although I have no problem

> with the discussion, it seems to me there are more productive ways for

> you to get this information from people, including htis membership.

>

> For example, what about using an online meeting tool such as Go to

> Meeting (www.gotomeeting.com) to have exactly THIS conversation?

>

> Sometimes focusing on things without looking for the constructive

> solution is not exactly conducive to a positive outlook and can

> culminate in adversarial advocacy and frustration for list members.

>

> What I mean is that it's fine for folks to share - particularly if

> they're in the midst of things - but to encourage a list to dwell on

> topics that can bring up emotional trauma for us or our kids is

> draining. I know it is for me.

>

> AS the " Senior Officer " of your organization, can you not invite the

> people you are learning from HERE to an online meeting or conference

> call that is then transcribed? Such tools exist for small fees - many

> for free for a time.

>

> Your post feels a bit like you are using us to get information that is

> likely not that difficult to obtain. It feels a little like we're

> being used for your benefit.

>

> I understand you have a productive cause. Use the tools available to

> you to gather information in a professional and productive manner.

>

> Take care,

> Joan Medlen

> List owner

>

December 8, 2008

Wait Just a Minute - USED for MY Benefit ??? Do you have ANY IDEA of

how much time and effort it takes to even propose legislation. It

takes more then just typing skills and the ability to put someone down

that is trying to help the children. I find it very 'Wrong' that you

are the one complaining and not the members of the list. You may be a

'Senior' whatever, but you don't own the people and you certainly are

not doing anything about these abuses... or I wouldn't see such a

dramatic response from the people here. After reading that post from

you again I find that you were extremely offensive and obviously don't

have the problem that many have all over the country.

I don't appreciate you making this statement on the list, you broke

your own rules.

E. , Sr.

> >

> > Sara and all list members,

> >

> > Please keep this 'loop' of posts going - you are providing compelling

> >

>

> Hi ,

>

> Just exactly what are you planning to DO with this information, and

> HOW is our membership posting information helping you? I understand

> you're " gathering information, " but how about tell us a tangible

> outcome of members' sharing their heart-felt stories and valuable

> time away from their families to assist you?

>

> I've gone back and read your early posts. Although I have no problem

> with the discussion, it seems to me there are more productive ways for

> you to get this information from people, including htis membership.

>

> For example, what about using an online meeting tool such as Go to

> Meeting (www.gotomeeting.com) to have exactly THIS conversation?

>

> Sometimes focusing on things without looking for the constructive

> solution is not exactly conducive to a positive outlook and can

> culminate in adversarial advocacy and frustration for list members.

>

> What I mean is that it's fine for folks to share - particularly if

> they're in the midst of things - but to encourage a list to dwell on

> topics that can bring up emotional trauma for us or our kids is

> draining. I know it is for me.

>

> AS the " Senior Officer " of your organization, can you not invite the

> people you are learning from HERE to an online meeting or conference

> call that is then transcribed? Such tools exist for small fees - many

> for free for a time.

>

> Your post feels a bit like you are using us to get information that is

> likely not that difficult to obtain. It feels a little like we're

> being used for your benefit.

>

> I understand you have a productive cause. Use the tools available to

> you to gather information in a professional and productive manner.

>

> Take care,

> Joan Medlen

> List owner

>

December 8, 2008

,

In Joan's defense, this board was created specifically for families to support

and help each other through difficult times and good times. This is OUR on line

support group. Many times people have come on line for other reasons and have

been redirected to start another group and invite those who want to participate

in that group to go there, or to email privately. We did this very recently

with the election.

Honestly, I come to this group to find out what is going on with my extended

family. Get important announcements about what is going on with the ds/autism

community and to get FYI information. If I want to know more about that

information, I go to those places and read. We do share information we find. I

understand what Joan is saying about rehashing emotional situations from our

past. It does bring up so much and it has a toll on the rest of your day.

I don't have a problem with people emailing you directly if they want to be

involved with what you are doing. I love that someone is able to do things on

the political end. For me right now, I am just trying to get through the day.

Understand that Joan is only looking out for our emotional well being and the

integrity of this board.

Sincerel,

Holly

December 8, 2008

Holly,

If you are a moderator could you please take down the posting I made

that you responded to. After reading her post about her mom and

responding to it with a humble post and prayer, and reading your post

- I stand corrected. I must share with you the truth because that's

how I operate - I never expected this kind of response from the groups

I belong to. It has brought up the exact same emotions from within me

as well so I completely understand. My son is 15 now but today I have

the emotions going through me that I had a decade ago - that's not

good for anyone. The overwhelming response was enough to have to hire

someone to help sort through just the offline responses alone. It

will send a strong message. I hope for the best for Joan and her

family - and for all listmembers. I've been on this list for quite

some time but I'm not always active due to my schedule. Again I

apologize to anyone that has been affected by this.

E. , Sr. The Office of Advocacy

>

> ,

> In Joan's defense, this board was created specifically for families

to support and help each other through difficult times and good times.

This is OUR on line support group. Many times people have come on

line for other reasons and have been redirected to start another group

and invite those who want to participate in that group to go there, or

to email privately. We did this very recently with the election.

>

> Honestly, I come to this group to find out what is going on with my

extended family. Get important announcements about what is going on

with the ds/autism community and to get FYI information. If I want to

know more about that information, I go to those places and read. We

do share information we find. I understand what Joan is saying about

rehashing emotional situations from our past. It does bring up so

much and it has a toll on the rest of your day.

>

> I don't have a problem with people emailing you directly if they

want to be involved with what you are doing. I love that someone is

able to do things on the political end. For me right now, I am just

trying to get through the day. Understand that Joan is only looking

out for our emotional well being and the integrity of this board.

>

> Sincerel,

> Holly

>

December 8, 2008

I agree with joan, and i think michael, you should apologize for behaving

like this, we are all caring parents here, we each choose to fight our battles

in our own way. We are each here to support eachother, and are there for

eachother in a way you apparently dont understand. not to just use up for

information and then bash the moment we get put on the spot. I aslo received

a " grouply " invite from you and THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED!!!!!! I will also

be blocking any further emails from you and your horrible attitude

towards joan, who has one of the very few places for those of us with children

with down syndrome and autism to go to. shawna

Wishing all a very Merry Chirstmas!

http://sewshawna.blogspot.com

________________________________

To:

Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 2:54:35 PM

Subject: Re: What about children that are known to harm others -

KEEP Posting.