Trouble with previous neurofeedback - input?

[Guest guest]

Hi group,

I have been lurking in the group for a while, reading previous posts and trying

to relate it

to my situation. I have sought the opinion of a few providers, but I'd like to

see if I can't

understand the approach that was used on me so far and why I might have

responded in

the way I did. I think I can make a better educated decision about what to do

about it if I

hae some idea whats going on.

I was recommended to try neurofeedback by a Dr. that I was seeing to help with

sleep

issues that he thought was contributing to fatigue, but it doesn't seem to have

helped me,

in fact I now seem to have some new symptoms that I didn't have before. I

haven't had a

lot of luck finding a local practitioner that can explain my reaction to the

training and

what to do about.

My main issue seems to be that I am very sensitive to neurofeedback. It seems

that in the

locations that it is effective, it only takes 1 or 2 sessions to effect change -

and that

change seems persistent. This has confused the people I have spoken to, I guess

this isn't

very common. The problem is, the changes that have been effected to date

haven't helped

me, they have just caused new problems. So I need to get some perspective on

why that

might be, and how to at least " get back to where I started " since at this point

that is better

than where I am now.

These are the sessions I have had to date, and their effecst so far as I can

tell. I am

reading from the notes I have from the practitioner:

T3/T4 - reward 15-18, 12-15, 9-12, 6-9, 3-6, and then 0-3.

Effect: I felt like I had taken way too much xanax. I was very drowsy and

unmotivated. I

was less stressed, but too spaced out to do anything.

T3/T4 - reward 15-18 to 18-21, 21-24.

Effect: very irritable, on edge, stresssed, hyperactive, and anxious. It also

made me very

very sensitive to sound, to the point where I had to wear earplugs to go out in

public.

The practitioner then told me that the effects would just wear off in a couple

days and

then we could re-assess.

The problem is, the effects didn't wear off at all. Despite the following

sessions that

moved the electrodes around, I basically was left in this hyper/stressed/anxious

state that

started after the T3/T4 " up " sessions. The practitioner tried the following to

seemingly no

effect:

F3-F4 reward 15-18, inhibit 2-11,22-40 for 2 sessions

T4-P4 reward 12-15, inhibit 22-40, 2-7

T4-P4 reward 12-15, 11-14, 10-13, 9-11, 8-11

T4-F4 reward 12-15, 11-14, 10-13, 9-12, 8-11, inhibit 2-7, 22-40

F4-T4 reward 12-15, 11-14, 10-13, 9-12, 8-11, inhibit 2-7, 22-40

T4-Cz reward 12-15, inhibit 2-7 22-40

After this, I had to go on klonopin because the anxiety from the T3-T4 sessions

was so

bad and it didn't seem to wear off at all, nor were the above additional

sessions helping. I

then sought the opinion of a second NF provider. I basically requested that I

wanted back

to my pre-NF baseline. They did an evaluation and ran the following sessions:

CZ active, Fz reference - reward 12-16, inhibit 3-8, 20-24

1/2 session with Fz as active and Cz as reference and 1/2 session with Cz as

active and Fz

as reference - reward 12-16, inhibit 3-8 (I moved electrodes in the middle of

the session)

CZ active, Fz reference - reward 12-16, inhibit 3-8

Effects: After these 3 sessions I felt somewhat less anxious, but very very very

spaced out.

1/2 session C3 active, A1 reference, A2 ground - reward 12-16, inhibit 3-8

1/2 session C4 active, A2 reference, A1 ground - reward 12-16, inhibit 3-8

Effects: little to no change

C3 active, A1 reference, A2 ground - reward 12-15, inhibit 3-8

Effects: completely killed sex drive, made me very unmotivated and even more

spaced out,

don't seem to be able to form social bonds or judge social situations as well,

flatlined my

emotional response, made my memory worse and made my cognition worse. I seem to

now be in a state where I can no longer enter the " creative/brainstorming mode "

and

simultaneously I can't enter the technical/problem solving mode. I seem to be

stuck in

the middle - which isn't very udeful for me since I work in a technical field.

My ability and

interest seems dampened when it comes to technical things.

The second practitioner doesn't seem to know what happened. My anxiety was

definately

reduced, but the symptoms that came in its place are arguably worse. They say I

showed a

lot of " theta and high beta " at the locations they trained, and they were trying

to even it

out and they though it would help me. They don't seem to be able to figure out

why it

caused these other problems.

My questions for the group are:

-Why do you think the protocols were selected and what were they trying to

accomplish?

-Why might someone have such a fast (1-2 sessions) and persistent response to NF

in

some locations, but seemingly not in others?

-What can I do to get rid of the new symptoms that have occured and get back to

" me " , is

it just a simple change in frequency at those locations? Or is there a

completely different

procotol I should look at?

-What kind of evaluation can I do to better figure out whats going on?

- Can someone recommend a book or something so I can learn how NF providers make

these decisions and why symptoms are typically targetted at what locations?

sorry for such a long message, I have contacted some other practitioners for

their advice,

but I thought I'd send my message to this group to see if I could get your

perspectives on

what practically I could do about this..

thanks for any info

aaron