Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

January 15, 2002

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

Dear ,

To answer your questions. My husband is German, his family is here as well, my daughter's only living grandparents...but mostly we returned to Germany because of stable work in his occupation, we were struggling in the U.S. This is my second time living in Germany, we've been here since Feb 27, 2001...so that will be a year next month. Last time we lived here together for 14 months.

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already. I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

I wasn't happy with the idea that she would live with this...I researched online and found a few mothers who spoke of milk allergies (although food allergies can be controversial to in that arena - imagine that, some people have no common sense :-) anyway...I went to another more local healthfood store in search of cod liver oil and/or flax seed oil as I read on a few sites including Dr. Anrew Weil's site that it can help and again the owner gave me very important information. So I started giving her the cod liver oil and about that same time was doing trial and error with the food. When it was extremely bad to the point it blood was visible, but not really bleeding was when I withdrew all foods for until she was better...within 2 weeks her skin had improved tremendously....her skin was healing...I think I went another 2 weeks before introducing food again...it had all but completely healed...mild dry area where she was having the problem on her right inside forearm. Then hesitantly I began introducing foods excluding certain things such as wheat, corn and/or meat products. She started to get worse again....when I removed all dairy products from her diet, she improved again. However, not perfectly not 100%....then I removed almost all dairy from my diet....then she improved more. I think if it weren't for the fact that I have a tiny little milk in my coffee, it would probably be gone. But that's not going to happen, it's the one treat that helps me keep my sanity...and not worth the stress for me to stop it completely. I would hope that she weans soon. Sorry, but it's something I grappled over and that's the way it is. I don't do many other things that most parents do and realize I am not perfect and can only do so much. So if anyone wants to criticize me over this flaw, then so be it.

I am so very sorry that you experienced a horrible outcome from the implants. Thank you for your message and I hope your health improves dramatically.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

I certainly am not going to criticize you on your child rearing for sure, so rest easy, I just would be concerned about breast feeding with implants, that is all, other than that I think that breast feeding is great, I am not sure I understand the whole issue of the bacteria connection either, hopefully when I get my implant analysis report back I will have a better idea of what went wrong there.

I am much better now so I think I am on the right track I certainly feel 100 times better now than I did with implants! Thank god they are gone,

More from me later I have to get to work,

Good to hear from you,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:11 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear ,

To answer your questions. My husband is German, his family is here as well, my daughter's only living grandparents...but mostly we returned to Germany because of stable work in his occupation, we were struggling in the U.S. This is my second time living in Germany, we've been here since Feb 27, 2001...so that will be a year next month. Last time we lived here together for 14 months.

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already. I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

I wasn't happy with the idea that she would live with this...I researched online and found a few mothers who spoke of milk allergies (although food allergies can be controversial to in that arena - imagine that, some people have no common sense :-) anyway...I went to another more local healthfood store in search of cod liver oil and/or flax seed oil as I read on a few sites including Dr. Anrew Weil's site that it can help and again the owner gave me very important information. So I started giving her the cod liver oil and about that same time was doing trial and error with the food. When it was extremely bad to the point it blood was visible, but not really bleeding was when I withdrew all foods for until she was better...within 2 weeks her skin had improved tremendously....her skin was healing...I think I went another 2 weeks before introducing food again...it had all but completely healed...mild dry area where she was having the problem on her right inside forearm. Then hesitantly I began introducing foods excluding certain things such as wheat, corn and/or meat products. She started to get worse again....when I removed all dairy products from her diet, she improved again. However, not perfectly not 100%....then I removed almost all dairy from my diet....then she improved more. I think if it weren't for the fact that I have a tiny little milk in my coffee, it would probably be gone. But that's not going to happen, it's the one treat that helps me keep my sanity...and not worth the stress for me to stop it completely. I would hope that she weans soon. Sorry, but it's something I grappled over and that's the way it is. I don't do many other things that most parents do and realize I am not perfect and can only do so much. So if anyone wants to criticize me over this flaw, then so be it.

I am so very sorry that you experienced a horrible outcome from the implants. Thank you for your message and I hope your health improves dramatically.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

Well, thanks...I guess it's so touchy with me. I have mixed feeling and thoughts about it. I go through such great extents to protect my daughter and now after 2 years I read about these type of concerns...it's a little late for me to just up and change the course, I can't reverse the past.. Besides, I still believe in my heart that was all I could do, plus I believe she benefited from the breastmilk rather than some manmade product called 'formula'. And to top it off I was not only encouraged by doctors, midwifes and the nurses, they told me it was ok. The concern at that time, was if my body could physically transport the milk to my baby...I had the incision around the nipple. I've had no trouble.

I didn't mean to sound to defensive, I've had a rough day. And this whole implant scare has put a lot of stress in my home. I got in a fight with my husband today over things like calling the doctor for me, then my daughter is fussing making it difficult to call doctors and someone on the board claims the vaccines are necessary for children and yet defends the cause of toxic implants in women. That gets me really confused about who to trust. I feel like I am in a panic and don't want to be scared into surgery. My husband managed to make 2 appointments today with English speaking plastic surgeons, so I'll need to make a list of pertinent questions. I know one of them I get a half hour for 40 Euros, the other one is 30 Euros - don't know how much time I get, but I want to be prepared.

I'm glad you are better, the stress alone without having them in must improve your health.

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:38 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I certainly am not going to criticize you on your child rearing for sure, so rest easy, I just would be concerned about breast feeding with implants, that is all, other than that I think that breast feeding is great, I am not sure I understand the whole issue of the bacteria connection either, hopefully when I get my implant analysis report back I will have a better idea of what went wrong there.

I am much better now so I think I am on the right track I certainly feel 100 times better now than I did with implants! Thank god they are gone,

More from me later I have to get to work,

Good to hear from you,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:11 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear ,

To answer your questions. My husband is German, his family is here as well, my daughter's only living grandparents...but mostly we returned to Germany because of stable work in his occupation, we were struggling in the U.S. This is my second time living in Germany, we've been here since Feb 27, 2001...so that will be a year next month. Last time we lived here together for 14 months.

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already. I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

I wasn't happy with the idea that she would live with this...I researched online and found a few mothers who spoke of milk allergies (although food allergies can be controversial to in that arena - imagine that, some people have no common sense :-) anyway...I went to another more local healthfood store in search of cod liver oil and/or flax seed oil as I read on a few sites including Dr. Anrew Weil's site that it can help and again the owner gave me very important information. So I started giving her the cod liver oil and about that same time was doing trial and error with the food. When it was extremely bad to the point it blood was visible, but not really bleeding was when I withdrew all foods for until she was better...within 2 weeks her skin had improved tremendously....her skin was healing...I think I went another 2 weeks before introducing food again...it had all but completely healed...mild dry area where she was having the problem on her right inside forearm. Then hesitantly I began introducing foods excluding certain things such as wheat, corn and/or meat products. She started to get worse again....when I removed all dairy products from her diet, she improved again. However, not perfectly not 100%....then I removed almost all dairy from my diet....then she improved more. I think if it weren't for the fact that I have a tiny little milk in my coffee, it would probably be gone. But that's not going to happen, it's the one treat that helps me keep my sanity...and not worth the stress for me to stop it completely. I would hope that she weans soon. Sorry, but it's something I grappled over and that's the way it is. I don't do many other things that most parents do and realize I am not perfect and can only do so much. So if anyone wants to criticize me over this flaw, then so be it.

I am so very sorry that you experienced a horrible outcome from the implants. Thank you for your message and I hope your health improves dramatically.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

Hi ,

I hope I can help shed some light on some of your concerns in your letter....I will address them individually below, with a little snipping:

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:11 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear ,

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

I believe you will do fine if you can make contact with Cosima in Switzerland, or MarLou in Holland. These are some very courageous women fighting breast implants in Europe and they will know who can help you there.

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Using cortisone on a child that small is not such a good idea! Dr. Weil cautions about that in his books, actually cautions against anyone using them carelessly, even over the counter steroid creams. You were very smart to check into the food allergy idea. One other area that you may need to investigate is the prevalence of saturated fats in your diets. If you cut out the saturated (animal) fats, and make sure there are good quantities of omega 3's and Omega 6's (found in fish and vegetable oils, such as flaxseed oil), you should see all around improvement. Dairy products, meats and all animal related products contribute saturated fat in the diet, and those follow a metabolic pathway that leads to inflammation. Essential fatty acids, (the Omega 3's and Omega 6's) have an opposite effect, and actually reduce inflammation.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already.

, here's the rub....when the immune system is working up to snuff and very strong, it can effectively deal with bacteria, viruses and pathogens...even cancer! It is when the immune system has been decimated by chemicals, free radicals, and weakened in a myriad of ways, not the least of which can be breast implants, that it becomes unable to cope with these same bacteria. It has been shown by experimentation with cancer cells that this is the case. Here is what happened, in simple words....a researcher (I can find the name and actual published discussion if you wish), injected cancerous cells into the bodies of a control group of mice, and subject group of mice to determine if they would both develop cancer from it. Those mice that had strong immune systems were able to destroy the cancer cells. However, those mice who had compromised immune systems were not able to destroy them, and indeed, developed cancerous tumors inside their bodies. Incredibly, so sure was this researcher of the validity of his theory, that he injected himself with cancer cells to see what would happen. He suffered nothing more than a slightly reddened irritation and soreness where the injection had been made, and recovered. It was apparent that his immune system was able to destroy the diseased cells, and the same happened to his assistants. He did further research on other human beings who already had cancer, and found that their bodies were affected by the injection in a negative way, with the growth of additional tumors. So, the very most important weapon we have against cancer and other diseases is a very strong immune system. Breast implants sabatoge our immune systems, leaving us no longer able to fight disease as before.

I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

We are assaulted by bacteria and pathogens daily. It is a war in our bodies! Again, the most important aspect of maintaining health is to strengthen the immune system if weakend, and keep it strong. As long as implants are in the body and the body fights them, the immune system has a very hard time recovering. Also, certain foods, as you have discovered create trouble for our immune systems, when we develop allergies to them. So, paying attention to diet is imperative. Sugar is very insidious--it delivers a blow to the immune system that takes about 4 hours for it to recover. So, when you are sick, cut out sugar completely. (You should anyway.) The key to health is a strong immune system, and you don't need drugs to make the immune system strong. You need healthy foods that help in the fight for us!

Hope this helped!

Patty

January 15, 2002

,

I am also one who believes vaccines are dangerous for children. I have posted about the dangers of vaccines before on this group, and the possible connection between the mercury based preservative, thimerosal, and the skyrocketing rates of autism in this country. I am with you...I do not vaccinate my children and I recommend for those that insist on doing so, at least to wait until the immune systems of the children have had a fighting chance to develop. That means waiting until past the age of 2. I believe the current system of injecting little babies with all kinds of foreign stuff is atrocious. Furthermore, I had both mumps and measles as a kid and I didn't think it was that bad! I think natural immunity to disease is much preferred to vaccination.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Well, thanks...I guess it's so touchy with me. I have mixed feeling and thoughts about it. I go through such great extents to protect my daughter and now after 2 years I read about these type of concerns...it's a little late for me to just up and change the course, I can't reverse the past.. Besides, I still believe in my heart that was all I could do, plus I believe she benefited from the breastmilk rather than some manmade product called 'formula'. And to top it off I was not only encouraged by doctors, midwifes and the nurses, they told me it was ok. The concern at that time, was if my body could physically transport the milk to my baby...I had the incision around the nipple. I've had no trouble.

I didn't mean to sound to defensive, I've had a rough day. And this whole implant scare has put a lot of stress in my home. I got in a fight with my husband today over things like calling the doctor for me, then my daughter is fussing making it difficult to call doctors and someone on the board claims the vaccines are necessary for children and yet defends the cause of toxic implants in women. That gets me really confused about who to trust. I feel like I am in a panic and don't want to be scared into surgery. My husband managed to make 2 appointments today with English speaking plastic surgeons, so I'll need to make a list of pertinent questions. I know one of them I get a half hour for 40 Euros, the other one is 30 Euros - don't know how much time I get, but I want to be prepared.

I'm glad you are better, the stress alone without having them in must improve your health.

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:38 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I certainly am not going to criticize you on your child rearing for sure, so rest easy, I just would be concerned about breast feeding with implants, that is all, other than that I think that breast feeding is great, I am not sure I understand the whole issue of the bacteria connection either, hopefully when I get my implant analysis report back I will have a better idea of what went wrong there.

I am much better now so I think I am on the right track I certainly feel 100 times better now than I did with implants! Thank god they are gone,

More from me later I have to get to work,

Good to hear from you,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:11 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear ,

To answer your questions. My husband is German, his family is here as well, my daughter's only living grandparents...but mostly we returned to Germany because of stable work in his occupation, we were struggling in the U.S. This is my second time living in Germany, we've been here since Feb 27, 2001...so that will be a year next month. Last time we lived here together for 14 months.

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already. I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

I wasn't happy with the idea that she would live with this...I researched online and found a few mothers who spoke of milk allergies (although food allergies can be controversial to in that arena - imagine that, some people have no common sense :-) anyway...I went to another more local healthfood store in search of cod liver oil and/or flax seed oil as I read on a few sites including Dr. Anrew Weil's site that it can help and again the owner gave me very important information. So I started giving her the cod liver oil and about that same time was doing trial and error with the food. When it was extremely bad to the point it blood was visible, but not really bleeding was when I withdrew all foods for until she was better...within 2 weeks her skin had improved tremendously....her skin was healing...I think I went another 2 weeks before introducing food again...it had all but completely healed...mild dry area where she was having the problem on her right inside forearm. Then hesitantly I began introducing foods excluding certain things such as wheat, corn and/or meat products. She started to get worse again....when I removed all dairy products from her diet, she improved again. However, not perfectly not 100%....then I removed almost all dairy from my diet....then she improved more. I think if it weren't for the fact that I have a tiny little milk in my coffee, it would probably be gone. But that's not going to happen, it's the one treat that helps me keep my sanity...and not worth the stress for me to stop it completely. I would hope that she weans soon. Sorry, but it's something I grappled over and that's the way it is. I don't do many other things that most parents do and realize I am not perfect and can only do so much. So if anyone wants to criticize me over this flaw, then so be it.

I am so very sorry that you experienced a horrible outcome from the implants. Thank you for your message and I hope your health improves dramatically.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

Hi Patty: How did the school system let you get away with not vaccining your children? What do you think about the polio vaccine? My daughter has to get it this week or she is not allowed in school. She is 6 1/2 yr's old.

I've read that the MMR could be a factor why so many kids are autistic. Because all three of these vaccines are given together. Vaccines are no longer made with mercury in them. But you should call your pediatrician and make sure that their vaccines do not contain mercury.

Thanks

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,

I am also one who believes vaccines are dangerous for children. I have posted about the dangers of vaccines before on this group, and the possible connection between the mercury based preservative, thimerosal, and the skyrocketing rates of autism in this country. I am with you...I do not vaccinate my children and I recommend for those that insist on doing so, at least to wait until the immune systems of the children have had a fighting chance to develop. That means waiting until past the age of 2. I believe the current system of injecting little babies with all kinds of foreign stuff is atrocious. Furthermore, I had both mumps and measles as a kid and I didn't think it was that bad! I think natural immunity to disease is much preferred to vaccination.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Well, thanks...I guess it's so touchy with me. I have mixed feeling and thoughts about it. I go through such great extents to protect my daughter and now after 2 years I read about these type of concerns...it's a little late for me to just up and change the course, I can't reverse the past.. Besides, I still believe in my heart that was all I could do, plus I believe she benefited from the breastmilk rather than some manmade product called 'formula'. And to top it off I was not only encouraged by doctors, midwifes and the nurses, they told me it was ok. The concern at that time, was if my body could physically transport the milk to my baby...I had the incision around the nipple. I've had no trouble.

I didn't mean to sound to defensive, I've had a rough day. And this whole implant scare has put a lot of stress in my home. I got in a fight with my husband today over things like calling the doctor for me, then my daughter is fussing making it difficult to call doctors and someone on the board claims the vaccines are necessary for children and yet defends the cause of toxic implants in women. That gets me really confused about who to trust. I feel like I am in a panic and don't want to be scared into surgery. My husband managed to make 2 appointments today with English speaking plastic surgeons, so I'll need to make a list of pertinent questions. I know one of them I get a half hour for 40 Euros, the other one is 30 Euros - don't know how much time I get, but I want to be prepared.

I'm glad you are better, the stress alone without having them in must improve your health.

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:38 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I certainly am not going to criticize you on your child rearing for sure, so rest easy, I just would be concerned about breast feeding with implants, that is all, other than that I think that breast feeding is great, I am not sure I understand the whole issue of the bacteria connection either, hopefully when I get my implant analysis report back I will have a better idea of what went wrong there.

I am much better now so I think I am on the right track I certainly feel 100 times better now than I did with implants! Thank god they are gone,

More from me later I have to get to work,

Good to hear from you,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:11 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear ,

To answer your questions. My husband is German, his family is here as well, my daughter's only living grandparents...but mostly we returned to Germany because of stable work in his occupation, we were struggling in the U.S. This is my second time living in Germany, we've been here since Feb 27, 2001...so that will be a year next month. Last time we lived here together for 14 months.

I too have concerns about having implants removed in a foreign country, but I try to reassure myself that it's probably not as bad as I worry and if the doctor is fluent in English - then I can get my questions answered without being too worried about misunderstanding (hopefully).

The milk question: of course only as of recent I have thought about it. But what comes to mind at her 6-8 month point...prior to introducing her to foods outside of breastmilk her skin was absolutely fine. Then around 6 months I started to introduce some soft foods, although she was only semi-interested. But she loved pudding!! :-), applesauce, I would try offering her a variety of soft foods...Anyhow, by 8 months she had such as bad spot on her arm it was slightly bleeding. Before it got to that point, we went to a dermatologist, who did next to nothing, told us we'd have to live with it and gave us a prescription for cortisone. He also said to keep it moisturized. Well when looking for ointment, I would read the ingredients, I don't know if I read it somewhere (probably?) or it was my common sense that thought alcohol in cream cannot be good for dry, scaly skin. Everything contained the alcohol it seemed...so we went to a health food store and asked for something all natural. After speaking with the owner of the healthfood store, he told me to be wary of cortisone as it contains steroids and has a tendency to suppress the outbreaks only to have a more intensive outbreak later (he said it in different words of course). I kept this in mind and would only put the cortisone on - pretty much during the night when the itching is the worse and reduced it to only nights that itching was intense and at my wit's end to figure this out.

Something I don't understand is if bacteria is in our body already and it gets into and out of the saline implant and our bodies either cope or don't cope with the bacteria in our body already then I'm a little confused how it's going to be more worse - if it's in both places already. I have a lot of questions concerning some of the logic of the osmosis explanation. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, I just have yet to completely comprehend it. And I wonder how much bacteria we ingest through eating, drinking, breathing, touching, etc. It also seems to be from what little I know that viruses seem to be the bigger of the 2 evils. This past year my husband, daughter and self got extremely ill from eating something. They don't just provide refrigerators here or kitchens in general (rarely) in German apartments, and we went without a fridge for a month :-(. It was awful having to go grocery shopping every other day, since we couldn't 'keep' any kind of refrigerated food, and we ate out alot :-)...but that's what got us sick.

I wasn't happy with the idea that she would live with this...I researched online and found a few mothers who spoke of milk allergies (although food allergies can be controversial to in that arena - imagine that, some people have no common sense :-) anyway...I went to another more local healthfood store in search of cod liver oil and/or flax seed oil as I read on a few sites including Dr. Anrew Weil's site that it can help and again the owner gave me very important information. So I started giving her the cod liver oil and about that same time was doing trial and error with the food. When it was extremely bad to the point it blood was visible, but not really bleeding was when I withdrew all foods for until she was better...within 2 weeks her skin had improved tremendously....her skin was healing...I think I went another 2 weeks before introducing food again...it had all but completely healed...mild dry area where she was having the problem on her right inside forearm. Then hesitantly I began introducing foods excluding certain things such as wheat, corn and/or meat products. She started to get worse again....when I removed all dairy products from her diet, she improved again. However, not perfectly not 100%....then I removed almost all dairy from my diet....then she improved more. I think if it weren't for the fact that I have a tiny little milk in my coffee, it would probably be gone. But that's not going to happen, it's the one treat that helps me keep my sanity...and not worth the stress for me to stop it completely. I would hope that she weans soon. Sorry, but it's something I grappled over and that's the way it is. I don't do many other things that most parents do and realize I am not perfect and can only do so much. So if anyone wants to criticize me over this flaw, then so be it.

I am so very sorry that you experienced a horrible outcome from the implants. Thank you for your message and I hope your health improves dramatically.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

I am curious about your situation, how long and how come you live in Germany? I am just wondering if I missed something while I was away.

I would be concerned about removing implants in a foreign country but there must be someone there who could do it, hopefully you will find someone.

Have you considered that your daughters allergies to milk and other little problems you mentioned might be a reaction from the breast milk? Just a thought, also I can tell you I had saline implants only 18 months and they came out fine, except the water in them had turned to a viscous gel and yellow, I am still awaiting the results of the analyzing, however I was extremely ill from these implants, almost right away, within 3 months I had achene's and then went on to develop more problems, including dizziness, numbness in my toes and fingers, fatigue, restlessness, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, and constant sore throats, and upset stomachs.

I am better now after a little over a year, but still have some health issues that I am working on, I am just so grateful to have come as far as I have, it was and is allot of hard work, and sometimes I know I should be eating better, but I am allot healthier than I was and I felt like I was on my death bed with implants.

God bless you and your family,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: DanzButterflies@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:33 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

Dear Patty,

Thank you tremendously for this referral, I look forward to hearing from someone soon.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:11 AM

Subject: Fw: Fw: 10 year old saline implants

,Here was my reply from Ilena on a contact for you in Europe...you should behearing from someone soon if you haven't already.Take care and let us know what kind of help you get over there!Love,Patty----- Original Message -----From: "ilena rose" <ilena@...>>> I'll send this to Cosima and also give her MarLou in Hollands' # ... sheis> also very helpful.>>> One good piece of news ... the MTV Saline piece with Kristy is being> rebroadcast twice this week!>> YEAH!

January 15, 2002

Dear Patty,

WOW!! What a wealth of information you provided. I'll have to re-read this message more to digest it fully.

Yes, we do not use butter in our home we use margarine...I hope that is not too bad. And I recently wondered about sugar...if that might be contributing to my headaches sometimes. I think I probably have way too much sugar sometimes.

That is an amazing story about the cancer research guy. It's not absolutely necessary you pull out the original article. I'm not a good one for understanding some of the medical documentation that's usually written in unfamiliar terms for me. I like to have it explained in layman's terms...so I will believe you when you say that is what you read. He must have had alot of confidence in his own immune system to do that. I was amazed by that.

I still have a feeling of uncertainty concerning how people in here say that the implants are a breeding ground because it's a warm, dark, the temp issue...but what about all the other dark, warm, wet places in our bodies..such as fat or other areas. Why wouldn't our bodies harvest the bacteria in those regions and cavities in our bodies. Well, I've heard that toxins do get stored in the fat cells, I think it was by Dr. Weil - but not for sure though.

Thanks for going into a little depth in simpler terms, I appreciate that. It does make sense about compromising our immune systems, I can understand that if in fact that's what the implant does.

I know as someone who had implants put in...I think in general 'we' never thought of the chemicals that made the shell. I mean yes, we were told silicone, but I don't know why that was a 'friendly' word so to say at that time. I guess alot of people envisioned it as a form of plastic and plastic seemed to have such a hard time breaking down. I mean...look at all the issues raised over the years about the harm plastic does to our environment. Anyway just some other thoughts that come to mind as to why it seemed ok at the time - no red flags - to put these things in our bodies.

It just goes to show that words really do hurt people....all I can remember to this day is being called 'bird-chest' by an ex-boyfriend in junior high in front of all my classmates. I was humiliated at those critical growing years...and then without my mom around (when I did the implants) to say, "no way" you're not doing that, I was doomed to my insecurity. And then I guess there is no excuse for age 28, except that I was still lost, at least I got the silicone out, I do think that could be more catastrophic. I guess it's a toss up. I think our generation is learning alot about how we contaminate ourselves, whether it be through implants, lead pipes, vaccines, toxic waste in our water system.....well, toxic pollution in general...recently I was reading a chapter in this book called "How to Find Your Ideal Home" by Gene GeRue - chapter 28 Toxic Pollution: Air, Water, Radiation, Thermal, Land, Radon(this one occurs naturally), Sewage-Oil-Mining Pollution, Solid Waste, Incineration...it don't even think it mentioned electramagnetic, I'm sure the list could go on.

That's all for the moment. Thanks again for what you wrote to me.

Sincerely,

----- Original Message -----

From: Patty

Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:27 PM