Re: Migrating Joint Pain

October 5, 2006

It is very common to be undertreated with hypothyroid and

Hashimoto's and it can definitely cause joint pain like you

describe.

What led them to believe that your husband had Hashi's in the first

place? And what testing did they do to " confirm " that he did not

have it? Do you have labs that you can post here? They would have

needed to test TPO antibodies and Thyroglobulin antibodies to

confirm Hashi's. It is very true that Hashimoto's disease..or any un

or under treated hypothyroid condition can cause the joint pain that

you are describing. Has he been tested for RA as well and did they

find anything there?

So sorry for all the questions. And I feel so badly for your

husband..I know what it is to have the pain, though mine usually

sits in my wrists, hands and arms..though it can migrate to my neck

and back.

Missy

--- In , " treefrog3781 " <tholland3@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been afflicted with

> migrating joing pain since January and we have been to two RA

> specialists. The last one said his ANA was high, tested him for

> Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.

According

> to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the joint pain he

has

> been experiencing. So - they sent us to an endocrinologist who

> proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us it's not

> Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my husband.

Now, we

> are back at square one and are so very frustrated. I'm hoping

someone

> out there has had these symptoms and has been diagnosed and

> successfully treated for this problem. If so, PLEASE, PLEASE let

me

> know so we can try to get him some help. He is in so much pain

and I

> just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

>

> His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is worse in the

> evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get in and out of

bed -

> low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint pain will be

in

> one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows, etc.) and then

the

> next day it's in a whole other area of his body. MOstly his hands

hurt

> all the time though.

>

> Help me if you can.... Thank you....

>

October 6, 2006

I don't know what I can do to help you other than to give you and

your husband my sympathy and understanding. I've had RA since last

Dec., and have lived with Hashimoto's most of my adult life. (though

that has usually been well controlled) I was surprissed to find,

after being dx'd with RA, that auto-immune disorders often go hand-

in-hand. So it's not uncommon for someone to have or develop more

than one.

I hope your husband gets answer and effective treatment soon!!!

--- In , " treefrog3781 " <tholland3@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been afflicted with

> migrating joing pain since January and we have been to two RA

> specialists. The last one said his ANA was high, tested him for

> Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.

According

> to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the joint pain he

has

> been experiencing. So - they sent us to an endocrinologist who

> proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us it's not

> Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my husband.

Now, we

> are back at square one and are so very frustrated. I'm hoping

someone

> out there has had these symptoms and has been diagnosed and

> successfully treated for this problem. If so, PLEASE, PLEASE let

me

> know so we can try to get him some help. He is in so much pain

and I

> just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

>

> His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is worse in the

> evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get in and out of

bed -

> low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint pain will be

in

> one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows, etc.) and then

the

> next day it's in a whole other area of his body. MOstly his hands

hurt

> all the time though.

>

> Help me if you can.... Thank you....

>

October 6, 2006

Thank you for responding. He was initially " diagnosed " with

Hashimoto's by a RA specialist when his ANA came back at 146, so the

doctor tested him for a bunch of the autoimmune diseases. When those

tests came back, his Thyroid Peroxidase came back at 160 which is

very high (it's supposed to be between 0-34). So, the RA Specialist

said " You have Hashimoto's - you will need to see an endocrinologist

to go forward with your treatment - let me know how it goes " . So...

we went to an endo dr. and happened to pick the worst one in the area

I think. He was very, very rude and when the labs came back he told

us point blank that even if he has Hasi, it isn't causing the joint

pain that was ridiculous. Then he said that his t3 and t4 were

normal so his thyroid is fine at this point. However, the TSH test

didn't come back in the labs so we had to rerun that one and are

waiting on the results. Also - his sonogram on his thyroid showed a

larger right side, and I guess the thyroid looked rough instead of

smooth. The dr said that is ok.

So - we went back to our primary physician (who we love) and he is

having the new lab work come to him. We should get those results

today. If the TSH is high or low or whatever, we will go to a new

endo doctor, but if it's normal I don't know where to go from there.

I feel like we have hit a brick wall and my poor husband hurts so

darn bad.

Let me know if you have any more thoughts on this. I'll keep you

posted on the new lab results.

T

> >

> > Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been afflicted

with

> > migrating joing pain since January and we have been to two RA

> > specialists. The last one said his ANA was high, tested him for

> > Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.

> According

> > to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the joint pain he

> has

> > been experiencing. So - they sent us to an endocrinologist who

> > proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us it's not

> > Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my husband.

> Now, we

> > are back at square one and are so very frustrated. I'm hoping

> someone

> > out there has had these symptoms and has been diagnosed and

> > successfully treated for this problem. If so, PLEASE, PLEASE let

> me

> > know so we can try to get him some help. He is in so much pain

> and I

> > just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

> >

> > His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is worse in the

> > evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get in and out of

> bed -

> > low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint pain will be

> in

> > one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows, etc.) and then

> the

> > next day it's in a whole other area of his body. MOstly his

hands

> hurt

> > all the time though.

> >

> > Help me if you can.... Thank you....

> >

>

October 6, 2006

Stay away from an Endo. They are the worst to treat thyroid. My GP treats

me. Email me or Missy privately about thyroid. We will both be glad to

point you to info. He needs thyroid meds. I personally feel Armour is the

best. But as with RA, Hashi's is tricky. I thought I was balanced and I'm

not! I know that what ever arthritis I have, it will take time to get it

balanced out.

Kate

At 07:43 AM 10/6/2006, you wrote:

>Thank you for responding. He was initially " diagnosed " with

>Hashimoto's by a RA specialist when his ANA came back at 146, so the

>doctor tested him for a bunch of the autoimmune diseases. When those

>tests came back, his Thyroid Peroxidase came back at 160 which is

>very high (it's supposed to be between 0-34). So, the RA Specialist

>said " You have Hashimoto's - you will need to see an endocrinologist

>to go forward with your treatment - let me know how it goes " . So...

>we went to an endo dr. and happened to pick the worst one in the area

>I think. He was very, very rude and when the labs came back he told

>us point blank that even if he has Hasi, it isn't causing the joint

>pain that was ridiculous. Then he said that his t3 and t4 were

>normal so his thyroid is fine at this point. However, the TSH test

>didn't come back in the labs so we had to rerun that one and are

>waiting on the results. Also - his sonogram on his thyroid showed a

>larger right side, and I guess the thyroid looked rough instead of

>smooth. The dr said that is ok.

>

>So - we went back to our primary physician (who we love) and he is

>having the new lab work come to him. We should get those results

>today. If the TSH is high or low or whatever, we will go to a new

>endo doctor, but if it's normal I don't know where to go from there.

>I feel like we have hit a brick wall and my poor husband hurts so

>darn bad.

>

>Let me know if you have any more thoughts on this. I'll keep you

>posted on the new lab results.

>

>T

>

> > >

> > > Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been afflicted

>with

> > > migrating joing pain since January and we have been to two RA

> > > specialists. The last one said his ANA was high, tested him for

> > > Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.

> > According

> > > to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the joint pain he

> > has

> > > been experiencing. So - they sent us to an endocrinologist who

> > > proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us it's not

> > > Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my husband.

> > Now, we

> > > are back at square one and are so very frustrated. I'm hoping

> > someone

> > > out there has had these symptoms and has been diagnosed and

> > > successfully treated for this problem. If so, PLEASE, PLEASE let

> > me

> > > know so we can try to get him some help. He is in so much pain

> > and I

> > > just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

> > >

> > > His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is worse in the

> > > evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get in and out of

> > bed -

> > > low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint pain will be

> > in

> > > one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows, etc.) and then

> > the

> > > next day it's in a whole other area of his body. MOstly his

>hands

> > hurt

> > > all the time though.

> > >

> > > Help me if you can.... Thank you....

> > >

> >

>

October 7, 2006

Hello and Welcome!

It's wonderful that you have come here for your

husband - we are also here for those who have family

member affected with RA and other autoimmune

illnesses, because these diseases affect not only the

patient, but the entire family, as you know.

It sure sounds like your husband has symptoms which

are very like RA or a similiar arthritis based immune

system disease. Have they prescribed any medications

for him? If you are not happy with the first doctor,

you can always go for a second opinion, and I would

recommend, if you have not already, to go to a

rheumatologist. If he does have RA (and Hashimoto's

thyroid problems are very often related to RA), then

it is very important that he begin an aggressive

treatment regimen as soon as possible. This means

DMARDs (disease modifying drugs) which will slow down

the progression of the disease and destruction of the

joints.

As far as pain is concerned, I do use heating pads,

hot showers, rice socks (which form very nicely to the

joint which is in pain), massage pads. Some people

find relief from ice. He should try both and see

which is best. He could also get parafin wax bath for

his hands - I think you can find them in most drug

stores, rite-aid, savon and the like. I have heard

that these can be very effective in soothing arthritis

pain in the hands. Also, Motrin or Aleve can be used,

but be sure to eat when taking them.

The best advice I can give you is to continue the

search for his diagnosis, and a doctor who will

address his joint pain. I hope that this has helped

you, at least you know that your husband and yourself

are not alone in this, and we are here to help you in

any way we can. If you tell us where you are, perhaps

someone in the group lives close and can recommend a

doctor.

Please continue to let us know what happens with your

husband. My prayers go out to the both of you -

Take care - Kathe in CA

--- treefrog3781 <tholland3@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been

> afflicted with

> migrating joing pain since January and we have been

> to two RA

> specialists. The last one said his ANA was high,

> tested him for

> Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's

> Thyroiditis. According

> to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the

> joint pain he has

> been experiencing. So - they sent us to an

> endocrinologist who

> proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us

> it's not

> Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my

> husband. Now, we

> are back at square one and are so very frustrated.

> I'm hoping someone

> out there has had these symptoms and has been

> diagnosed and

> successfully treated for this problem. If so,

> PLEASE, PLEASE let me

> know so we can try to get him some help. He is in

> so much pain and I

> just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

>

> His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is

> worse in the

> evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get

> in and out of bed -

> low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint

> pain will be in

> one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows,

> etc.) and then the

> next day it's in a whole other area of his body.

> MOstly his hands hurt

> all the time though.

>

> Help me if you can.... Thank you....

>

__________________________________________________

October 7, 2006

I do agree with this as many Endos seem to keep patients

undertreated and go mainly by TSH to adjust thyroid dosing. It is

best to learn all you can and then find the doctor who will dose you

by the Free T3 and Free T4 and clinical symptoms instead of going

just by TSH. It can be tough to find one..but well worth it.

As for his TPO antibodies coming back high like that..it means they

are attacking and destroying his thyroid. It is best to treat

Hashi's with full thyroid replacement..if the thyroid isn't active

then the antibodies will tend to come down. It is little known, but

Hashi's antibodies can actually attack other parts of the body such

as the brain too..so it is really important to get them under

control.

It is not true that you need an Endo to treat thyroid problems.

The only reason would be because of an unusual problem with it. I

see a general practice DO (osteopath) who treats my Hashi's with

Armour. He doses by symptoms and uses labs only as a guide. You

might look for a DO, especially an older, more mature doctor as they

seem more open to treating with Armour and will use clinical

symptoms if you ask. But I would ask your general practice doctor

first if he would be willing to treat your husband.

His Free T3 and Free T4 came back normal? Were both in the upper

part of the range? FT3 should be near the top of the range and FT4

should be in the top 1/3 of the range. That is where most patients

feel well. Anything lower means he most likely has symptoms of low

thyroid. Please know that with Hashi's, labs can be very

inaccurate because of antibody activity. TSH is the very worst lab

to use to Dx for your husband. So if it comes out high..then your

problem will be solved, they will treat. If it comes out low..then

they will think he is hyper..not true in his case because he has

Hashi's..and that will make TSH go up and down. If it comes out

normal, they will likely do nothing unless you educate yourself and

find a doc who is willing to treat him because of antibodies,

symptoms and low frees.

I truly hope for your husband's sake that ALL his joint pain is

related to his untreated Hashi's. And the reason I say that is

because it will be relatively easy to treat..not requiring all the

pain relieving drugs that RA does. But do look for a good doc..it

is well worth it. If you want more info on thyroid, email me

privately..I can steer you to some good sites to read.

Missy

> >Thank you for responding. He was initially " diagnosed " with

> >Hashimoto's by a RA specialist when his ANA came back at 146, so

the

> >doctor tested him for a bunch of the autoimmune diseases. When

those

> >tests came back, his Thyroid Peroxidase came back at 160 which is

> >very high (it's supposed to be between 0-34). So, the RA

Specialist

> >said " You have Hashimoto's - you will need to see an

endocrinologist

> >to go forward with your treatment - let me know how it goes " .

So...

> >we went to an endo dr. and happened to pick the worst one in the

area

> >I think. He was very, very rude and when the labs came back he

told

> >us point blank that even if he has Hasi, it isn't causing the

joint

> >pain that was ridiculous. Then he said that his t3 and t4 were

> >normal so his thyroid is fine at this point. However, the TSH

test

> >didn't come back in the labs so we had to rerun that one and are

> >waiting on the results. Also - his sonogram on his thyroid

showed a

> >larger right side, and I guess the thyroid looked rough instead of

> >smooth. The dr said that is ok.

> >

> >So - we went back to our primary physician (who we love) and he is

> >having the new lab work come to him. We should get those results

> >today. If the TSH is high or low or whatever, we will go to a new

> >endo doctor, but if it's normal I don't know where to go from

there.

> >I feel like we have hit a brick wall and my poor husband hurts so

> >darn bad.

> >

> >Let me know if you have any more thoughts on this. I'll keep you

> >posted on the new lab results.

> >

> >T

October 12, 2006

Hi Kathe,

I have a similar situation going on. Mine started in the middle of July. My

GP diagnoised RA, and put me on high doese of Prednisone, which helped

immediately. Then he suggested that I see a Rheumy. I live in North Qld, in

Australia, about 1100 km from the nearest specialists, so it's a pain in the bum

to see one, but I have been to one Rheumy who said that I had a virus, even

though it had been 11 weeks at that stage, he told me to gradually decrease the

prednisone that I am on, and then to get more blood tests. My original tests

showed slightly elevated RH factor and increased Sed rate. I am nearly off the

prednisone now and the pain is increasing proportionally. I am going to see

another Rheumy in about 2 weeks, and would like to get some type of diagnosis.

But my pain is very similar, moving all the time, and it is definetly worse in

the evening, I almost always have pain in my left knee. So there you go, I have

no idea what either your husband or myself

have, but it is comforting to know that I am not crazy and that other people

have the same syptoms. Also I don't have any redness of the joints, and very

little swelling, although I do have a hardening happening on my knee cap.

Pennie

Kathe Sabetzadeh <lv2ryd@...> wrote:

Hello and Welcome!

It's wonderful that you have come here for your

husband - we are also here for those who have family

member affected with RA and other autoimmune

illnesses, because these diseases affect not only the

patient, but the entire family, as you know.

It sure sounds like your husband has symptoms which

are very like RA or a similiar arthritis based immune

system disease. Have they prescribed any medications

for him? If you are not happy with the first doctor,

you can always go for a second opinion, and I would

recommend, if you have not already, to go to a

rheumatologist. If he does have RA (and Hashimoto's

thyroid problems are very often related to RA), then

it is very important that he begin an aggressive

treatment regimen as soon as possible. This means

DMARDs (disease modifying drugs) which will slow down

the progression of the disease and destruction of the

joints.

As far as pain is concerned, I do use heating pads,

hot showers, rice socks (which form very nicely to the

joint which is in pain), massage pads. Some people

find relief from ice. He should try both and see

which is best. He could also get parafin wax bath for

his hands - I think you can find them in most drug

stores, rite-aid, savon and the like. I have heard

that these can be very effective in soothing arthritis

pain in the hands. Also, Motrin or Aleve can be used,

but be sure to eat when taking them.

The best advice I can give you is to continue the

search for his diagnosis, and a doctor who will

address his joint pain. I hope that this has helped

you, at least you know that your husband and yourself

are not alone in this, and we are here to help you in

any way we can. If you tell us where you are, perhaps

someone in the group lives close and can recommend a

doctor.

Please continue to let us know what happens with your

husband. My prayers go out to the both of you -

Take care - Kathe in CA

--- treefrog3781 <tholland3@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone. I'm new here. My husband has been

> afflicted with

> migrating joing pain since January and we have been

> to two RA

> specialists. The last one said his ANA was high,

> tested him for

> Autoimmune diseases and said he has Hashimoto's

> Thyroiditis. According

> to the Mayo Clinic site, this disease can cause the

> joint pain he has

> been experiencing. So - they sent us to an

> endocrinologist who

> proceeded to do 17 more blood tests and then tell us

> it's not

> Hashimoto's and he has no idea what is wrong with my

> husband. Now, we

> are back at square one and are so very frustrated.

> I'm hoping someone

> out there has had these symptoms and has been

> diagnosed and

> successfully treated for this problem. If so,

> PLEASE, PLEASE let me

> know so we can try to get him some help. He is in

> so much pain and I

> just don't know what to do or where to go from here.

>

> His symptoms include, migrating joint pain that is

> worse in the

> evenings, it gets so bad he can hardly walk or get

> in and out of bed -

> low grade fever, and decreased sex drive. The joint

> pain will be in

> one spot (shoulders, knees, hips, hands, elbows,

> etc.) and then the

> next day it's in a whole other area of his body.

> MOstly his hands hurt

> all the time though.

>

> Help me if you can.... Thank you....

>

__________________________________________________

November 7, 2006

--- Kate Guynn <kguynn@...> wrote:

> Anyone else have problems in one set of joints, then

> it gets better(not

> 100%) but the major pain is now in a different set

> of joints?

Yep. I call it " roaming tendonitis "

-

=====================================================

Stein

WEBSITE: http://www.noblefusion.com/astein

BLOG: http://www.livejournal.com/users/astein142/

-----------------------------------------------------

________________________________________________________________________________\

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November 7, 2006

I have the very same problem - the aches and pain is never in the same spot.

Depend on which way the wind blows? ) Some days I almost wonder if it is not

Fibro instead. The name really doesn't matter much, call it what they may, all

we know is it hurts. Last night was in my toes and legs - thought someone was

going to pull them right out of their socket. Finally got to sleep by trying to

relax my body from scalp down - ended up concentrating so hard on that, think I

forgot about the pain.

Hope

Degenerative Disease Information

juliehope@...

Saskatchewan, Canada

Tel: 1 306 648-2642 (CST)

http://www.4betrhealth.com

[ ] migrating joint pain

Anyone else have problems in one set of joints, then it gets better(not

100%) but the major pain is now in a different set of joints? My Rhuemy

said it was " normal " to have that happen.

Thanks,

Kate

November 7, 2006

All the time! Some days feet are worst, some days hands, and I've really

noticed my knees today. I've also noticed that since I've been on MTX, my

pain is much more specific - it used to be more aches but all over, now it's

more pain and stiffness in much more specific areas.

Niki in NC

Kate asked:

Anyone else have problems in one set of joints, then it gets better(not

100%) but the major pain is now in a different set of joints? My Rhuemy

said it was " normal " to have that happen.

November 7, 2006

Yes Kate,

It is definately normal ?? for PA pain to go from joint to joint. As well as

being perfectly agravatiing

also. For the last 2 months my shoulders and left elbow were my trouble spots,

now it is invading

my left knee. And not for the first time. Just a little worse this time

because it doesn't want to hold

me up. Your rheumy was correct. Having this disease is like trying to lose

weight. What works

for one does not necessarily work for another, but with all this inactivity sure

wish it was easier to

get a handle on both. God Bless!!

Janet in Ca

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Kate Guynn <kguynn@...>

> Anyone else have problems in one set of joints, then it gets better(not

> 100%) but the major pain is now in a different set of joints?

November 7, 2006

Here, Here for the " not so " Merry go round pains! I have it jump from

joint to joint so much I sometimes wonder if it's not all in my head,

and sometimes it is! LOL I get these Awful headaches. I am still

waiting for the wonder drug. My Dr has put me on yet another nsaid

(Lodine XL). He says if this one dosen't knock the pain down we will

go to MTX. I say bring it on cause nothing else has worked thus far.

I go back to him on Monday. Going to hit him up for the MTX and a

handicap card for my truck although I have not even felt like driving

lately. Have to get him to fill out some paperwork for my JOB. I

have not worked yet this month because of this Desease. I awoke this

morning in the rain to not being able to close my hands, my rt wrist

felt like it was broken, both my knees and ankles swollen and I about

hit the floor when I stood up to go to the bathroom. Just another

Great day with the P. A.

Glenn

November 7, 2006