Filisann

[Guest guest]

Have to stick my two cents in here and disagree. We are all part of this support group because of these implants. The implants made us ill, the doctors lied to us. Why should we have to shut up and not mention our implants? Yes, I do agree that many, many doctors turn away and decide to tune us out when we bring up our implants; however, that is THEIR problem, not ours. If they don't want to listen to us, then perhaps they are in the wrong profession. You don't have to agree with your pt, but you SHOULD be empathetic and still try to keep an open mind, especially since they (the doctors) say there is no conclusive research stating that implants cause illness. And for this reason alone, it is all the more reason they should be listening to us and keeping an open mind---not telling us to keep quiet if we want adequate treatment!! I am way too outspoken and angry to keep quiet. If we do that it's like all of us committing suicide---essentially we're all giving up and allowing the medical establishment to win! We need to speak up and voice our concerns and our experiences. So one doctor doesn't want to hear about implant illness--another one might! And I, for one, am on a roll, looking to topple every doctor off his thrown who screws around with me!! And god help those who cross my path!! e ----- Original Message ----- From: carrie_heer Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:36 AM Subject: Filisann I am so glad to see that your are still posting here, I am with youand the advice your Dr gave you in regards to implants and yourillness. I too believe that it is best, since the implants are goneto move forward and treat the problem that still exists withoutbringing the implants up too much. I did mention them to my new Drbut only in passing, I simply said that was when my symptoms startedand that while I had no proof that it was the implants I decided Idid not even like them enough to risk it, I looked at it like yaknow, if there was even a 1% chance I would get better that was worthit, took that chance and never looked back, and it worked out for me.I too had days when I could hardly move or get out of bed so yeah Iknow what you are saying.It is tough to just go to the Dr and leave out the implant issue,however, it is definetly something that might be in your bestinterest.Good luck and please keep us posted and stay in touch, I care and sodo the others here,Love,In @y..., "filisann2000" <Filisann@c...> wrote:> It's been a long time since I posted---but I'm lurking and reading> messages. Happy New Year to you girls!!>> I e-mailed a doctor at UCSD this morning regarding my situation and> was amazed that he called me almost right away. This doctor was> involved a while back in some studies on silicone----even though he> admitted he was one that thought it was a possible problem he gaveme> a bunch of talk on the studies. He did say that there was no more> funding or studies and there would definitely be no more in the> future.>> He suggested that I (if I were his wife) do not mention silicone or> my implants to any doctor in the future unless they specificallyask> me about it. He said that if I keep mentioning it and questioning> that I would be "labled" and the very doctors that are trying tohelp> me would no longer be willing to do so. Soooooo, I will try and do> that. After boo hooing about it, I decided he is probably right.He> was extremely nice and very kind.>> My white count and lymphocyte count continue to rise but I actually> feel pretty good. I always think back to how sick I was for almost> two years before I had my implants out. I had days when I couldn't> even get up. I am now functional and refusing to give up. I'mgoing> out kicking. I gave up my anti-depressants--I'm tired of feeling> like the victim. I'm doing more to entertain "me" and trying tolive> every day--one day at a time.>> I wish you all peace with yourselves and a very happy New Year.> Warm hugs, Phyllis:-)

[Guest guest]

In searching for new doctors, (I've had to find new

primary care physicians four times in the past year),

I've called their offices (I look for women doctors),

and ask if they have taken positions that claim

implants do not cause problems. I tell them that I had

them, was very ill but that I had them removed and am

doing very well now . . . and that I'm a low

maintenance patient now. I tell them that I'm looking

for a doctor who is aware of the complications that

can result from having had breast implants and is

willing to work with me to stay healthy.

Thus far, I've had very good results in finding a

doctor. Since I usually have to leave a message, the

doctors have an opportunity to refuse me (they just

don't call back), or I'm assured that I will receive

good service from the doctor, either through one of

their personnel, or the doctor calling me back.

When I do see them, I do not dwell on the implants . .

.. the subject usually comes up when the doctor asks me

if I ever experienced certain symptoms. Then I can

tell the doctor that, when I had implants, what

experienced, but that it has improved to whatever

point is appropriate.

However, when I was the sickest and didn't have a

clue, I was bounced around from one doctor to another

.. . . with all sorts of diagnoses. . . Then I learned

that my doctor's wife had implants and he was in total

denial . . . I quit him. . . My hubby continued seeing

him. Then one day he gave my hubby an inordinate

amount of sample medication (shopping bag full). I

think that was his signal that he wanted me to come

back in . . . but I didn't. My parting words to the

doctor was a warning that, if his wife ever suspected

a rupture, it was time for surgery on an emergency

basis.

Rogene

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Rogene I think that is an excellent approach and a calm and rational one, I

agree that no one should remain completely silent about what we have been

through, and if something I said came out that way then please know it was

not meant to, I guess it was a talk I had one day with a local acupuncturist

that really made me see things clearly.

I went in there and saw him and gave him all my background and the surgeries

etc he treated me like I was kind of a nut, the next acupuncturist I went to

I omitted anything about surgery and he treated me like there was something

missing, he didn't quite understand how I went from fine to where I was with

nothing changing in my life.

Well, when I went to my new rheumy I decided to kind of stand in the middle

ground, in other words I explained that my symptoms started shortly after

receiving saline implants, and that after they were removed some symptoms,

like the neurological ones, resolved and others seemed to stay .....I

focused more on treatment options and pain relief and also blood work etc,

rather than quizzing him on what he thought it was, implants etc.

My husband felt that I should take the stance that the implants are gone, so

we should treat the current situation and that I would probably have better

luck that way.

Again it is an individual thing, I don't think that any one should remain

silent however, once the implants are gone, trying to convince people who

don't want to listen as we have see time and again on this group, gets us

nowhere and only adds to our frustration.

If we cannot convince some women with implants who are ill that it is the

implants then how can we convince the Dr's? We certainly are free to try

though.

Thanks,

Love,

----- Original Message -----

From: " Rogene S " <saxony01@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:06 AM

Subject: Re: Filisann

> In searching for new doctors, (I've had to find new

> primary care physicians four times in the past year),

> I've called their offices (I look for women doctors),

> and ask if they have taken positions that claim

> implants do not cause problems. I tell them that I had

> them, was very ill but that I had them removed and am

> doing very well now . . . and that I'm a low

> maintenance patient now. I tell them that I'm looking

> for a doctor who is aware of the complications that

> can result from having had breast implants and is

> willing to work with me to stay healthy.

>

> Thus far, I've had very good results in finding a

> doctor. Since I usually have to leave a message, the

> doctors have an opportunity to refuse me (they just

> don't call back), or I'm assured that I will receive

> good service from the doctor, either through one of

> their personnel, or the doctor calling me back.

>

> When I do see them, I do not dwell on the implants . .

> . the subject usually comes up when the doctor asks me

> if I ever experienced certain symptoms. Then I can

> tell the doctor that, when I had implants, what

> experienced, but that it has improved to whatever

> point is appropriate.

>

> However, when I was the sickest and didn't have a

> clue, I was bounced around from one doctor to another

> . . . with all sorts of diagnoses. . . Then I learned

> that my doctor's wife had implants and he was in total

> denial . . . I quit him. . . My hubby continued seeing

> him. Then one day he gave my hubby an inordinate

> amount of sample medication (shopping bag full). I

> think that was his signal that he wanted me to come

> back in . . . but I didn't. My parting words to the

> doctor was a warning that, if his wife ever suspected

> a rupture, it was time for surgery on an emergency

> basis.

>

> Rogene

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

This is really a two edged sword.

The other consideration here is that if we keep our mouths shut so that we can get respect in our care, we perpetuate by default the belief that implants don't cause illness....and the connection between implants and disease remains shrouded in mystery.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: e L

Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:52 AM

Subject: Re: Filisann

Have to stick my two cents in here and disagree. We are all part of this support group because of these implants. The implants made us ill, the doctors lied to us. Why should we have to shut up and not mention our implants? Yes, I do agree that many, many doctors turn away and decide to tune us out when we bring up our implants; however, that is THEIR problem, not ours. If they don't want to listen to us, then perhaps they are in the wrong profession. You don't have to agree with your pt, but you SHOULD be empathetic and still try to keep an open mind, especially since they (the doctors) say there is no conclusive research stating that implants cause illness. And for this reason alone, it is all the more reason they should be listening to us and keeping an open mind---not telling us to keep quiet if we want adequate treatment!! I am way too outspoken and angry to keep quiet. If we do that it's like all of us committing suicide---essentially we're all giving up and allowing the medical establishment to win! We need to speak up and voice our concerns and our experiences. So one doctor doesn't want to hear about implant illness--another one might! And I, for one, am on a roll, looking to topple every doctor off his thrown who screws around with me!! And god help those who cross my path!!

e

----- Original Message -----

From: carrie_heer

Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:36 AM

Subject: Filisann

I am so glad to see that your are still posting here , I am with youand the advice your Dr gave you in regards to implants and yourillness. I too believe that it is best, since the implants are goneto move forward and treat the problem that still exists withoutbringing the implants up too much. I did mention them to my new Drbut only in passing, I simply said that was when my symptoms startedand that while I had no proof that it was the implants I decided Idid not even like them enough to risk it, I looked at it like yaknow, if there was even a 1% chance I would get better that was worthit, took that chance and never looked back, and it worked out for me.I too had days when I could hardly move or get out of bed so yeah Iknow what you are saying.It is tough to just go to the Dr and leave out the implant issue,however, it is definetly something that might be in your bestinterest.Good luck and please keep us posted and stay in touch, I care and sodo the others here,Love,In @y..., "filisann2000" <Filisann@c...> wrote:> It's been a long time since I posted---but I'm lurking and reading> messages. Happy New Year to you girls!!>> I e-mailed a doctor at UCSD this morning regarding my situation and> was amazed that he called me almost right away. This doctor was> involved a while back in some studies on silicone----even though he> admitted he was one that thought it was a possible problem he gaveme> a bunch of talk on the studies. He did say that there was no more> funding or studies and there would definitely be no more in the> future.>> He suggested that I (if I were his wife) do not mention silicone or> my implants to any doctor in the future unless they specificallyask> me about it. He said that if I keep mentioning it and questioning> that I would be "labled" and the very doctors that are trying tohelp> me would no longer be willing to do so. Soooooo, I will try and do> that. After boo hooing about it, I decided he is probably right.He> was extremely nice and very kind.>> My white count and lymphocyte count continue to rise but I actually> feel pretty good. I always think back to how sick I was for almost> two years before I had my implants out. I had days when I couldn't> even get up. I am now functional and refusing to give up. I'mgoing> out kicking. I gave up my anti-depressants--I'm tired of feeling> like the victim. I'm doing more to entertain "me" and trying tolive> every day--one day at a time.>> I wish you all peace with yourselves and a very happy New Year.> Warm hugs, Phyllis:-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Phyllis,

I was reading a book last night called "Food Enzymes, The Missing Link to Radiant Health" by Humbart Santillo, MH, ND, and there was a section in there that brought you to my mind immediately.

He was talking about the relationship of enzymes to the immune system, and to increased white blood cell count.

Here is part of what I read:

"There is a connection between the strength of our immune systems and our enzyme levels. The greater the amount of enzyme reserves, the stronger our immune systems, the healthier and stronger we will be. It has been clearly stated that enzyme activity increases during digestion and also during any other increase in metabolism, such as that found in acute diseases. But what is the exact correlation between our immune system and enzymes?

Our white blood cells (leukocytes) are responsible for destroying foreign, disease-producing substances in the blood and lymph fluids in the body. During acute diseases and infections, the white blood cell count increases to help fight off these pathologies.

Dr. Willstatter, in an early enzyme research study, demonstrated that there were 8 different amylase enzymes found in leukocytes. Investigations also have shown that leukocytes contain proteolytic and lipolytic enzymes which are also common to those secreted by the pancreas. These enzymes act very much like the enzymes that are in our digestive tract (breaking down proteins, fats and carbohydrates that have been absorbed by the blood, causing disease conditions.)

Enzymes act as scavengers in the body. They latch onto foreign substances and reduce them to a disposable form. They also prevent the arteries from clogging up and joints from becoming gummed up.

It was always thought that the pancreas produced all of these enzymes, but as we mentioned earlier, this idea is erroneous. As small as the pancreas is, it couldn't possibly produce all of the enzymes found in the muscles, glands, and tissues, as well as to produce those used up daily in digestion and those lost in the sweat, urine and feces. Enzymes are produced by all the tissues and cells of the body. And, in fact, it has been shown that the enzymes found in the white blood cells act very much like the enzymes found in the pancreas, especially the proteolytic enzymes.

Dr. Willstatter found it remarkable how closely the enzyme systems of white blood cells and the pancreatic glands agree with one another. Since the same enzymes are found in the white blood cells as are found in the pancreas, and since white blood cells transport these enzymes throughout the body, it seems that the pancreas and other enzyme secreting glands receive a great portion of these enzymes via the leukocytes.

After eating a cooked food meal, when digestive enzymes are desperately needed, the white blood cell count increases, seemingly to aid in the digestive process. Since every metabolic process is, at all times, interdependent and interrelated, this increase in the white blood cell count after the ingestion of a cooked meal, indicates a definite compensatory measure.

The body must supply a large amount of digestive enzymes because the enzymes that were once present in the food, were destroyed by the heating process. Dr. Kautchakoff, in his book that demonstrates the relationship of cooking and its effects on our systems, showed that there was an increase in white blood cells after eating a cooked food meal.

This increase in leukocytes is needed to transport enzymes to the digestive tract. Kautchakoff also demonstrated that after a raw food meal, there was no substantial increase in leukocytes, showing that the body has to work much harder to produce and transport enzymes for digestion after a cooked food meal.

It is important to remember that enzymes in raw food aid in the digestive process and that their action removes the stress of having to borrow them from the body's enzyme reserve, particularly from the white blood cell count (an important part of our immune systems.)

A most important point in Kautchakoff's experiment is that "leukocytosis" (increased white blood cell count) is a term which describes a medical pathology. Anytime the white blood cell count is increased to any great extent, it is considered that an acute illness or infection is present somewhere in the body. During acute diseases, enzyme levels rise. During chronic diseases, the body enzyme levels are decreased. The pancreas and digestive tract ar weakened, for example, during diabetes, cancer, or chronic intestinal problems.

During the course of a chronic disease, the immune system also shows signs of great expenditure. The correlation is clear. Enzymes are found to be related to all diseases via the immune system, whether the disease is acute or chronic. Our enzyme levels MUST BE MAINTAINED AT ANY EXPENSE to help maintain vitality, endurance, and to prevent disease. (emphasis mine)

If the pancreatic output of enzymes is hindered, the whole body is affected. If a disease is present, enzymes are used up to fight the condition and the pancreas is affected. You can see how eating mostly cooked food all our lives, or trying to overcome a chronic disease while still eating this type of diet, can be detrimental."

Phyllis, are you taking any enzymes at this time?

We have talked before about enzymes that fight inflammation, such as Wobyenzymes, and I believe Dr. Kolb uses Carozymes. I have used several different digestive enzymes in the past---taking them on an empty stomach helps to reduce inflammation.

For all of the ladies here who are trying to get back your health, I would recommend two things:

1. Eat as much raw food as possible, as oppposed to cooked foods. Heat above 129 degrees destroys life giving enzymes.

2. Take digestive enzymes between meals in largely sufficient quantities. Don't skimp.

And for your educational benefit if you are interested, read some books about the necessity of enzymes to our daily life. Books on juicing are good for this as well.

Patty