Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.

December 11, 2008

Please send me the info via my private email addy of redjaxjm@...,,

thanks and welcome!

Subject: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:25 PM

I have been a member of the group for some years now, lurking mostlybut I have posted a few times. My history is that I was diagnosedHep-C positive genotype 3A in Oct 99. I was a heavy drinker at thetime and my viral load was 4.9x10^6 then. I stopped drinking for 6months and my viral load dropped to 437,460. I started treatment inApr00 for the 24 weeks of Interferon and Rebotol. At 12 weeks into thetreatment, the viral load was 2231, good news, I was an earlyresponder, and the viral load was undetectable by month 3. The 4 weekpost treatment showed I was also a non-sustained responder and theviral load was 24K. It kept increasing and jumped up to 2.1x10^6 at my5 month post treatment date. Since then it has fluctuating between1.9x10^6 and 710K. My last liver biopsy in Jan 07 showed stage 4cirrhosis with mild inflammation.A good friend of mine, Hep-C geno-1A, suggested this life stylechange

after he had relapsed on his third round of treatment. He wentto a totally raw diet and started working out regular basis. It kepthis viral load in remission for over a year now. I decided to try thisapproach instead of the 48 week re-treatment offered by Duke.I'm not selling anything here, and the information is free. I havebeen slowly modifying my lifestyle and have dropped my viral load from602K in Jan05 to 32K in Oct08. My liver enzymes are almost normal(SGPT=58, SGOT=52) and I feel great and have really improved my energylevels. If you are considering treatment, and are interested in what I did toaddress the viral load, I would like to help. Post here and I willrespond.

December 11, 2008

Hi ,

Welcome to the List.

Several of our members who can't treat, or tried and failed,

are having some success at least in quality of life and feeling

much better using Dr. Burt Berkson's protocol..

I'm glad you have also found an alternative that works for you..

Sheena

I have been a member of the group for some years now, lurking mostlybut I have posted a few times. My history is that I was diagnosedHep-C positive genotype 3A in Oct 99. I was a heavy drinker at thetime and my viral load was 4.9x10^6 then. I stopped drinking for 6months and my viral load dropped to 437,460. I started treatment inApr00 for the 24 weeks of Interferon and Rebotol. At 12 weeks into thetreatment, the viral load was 2231, good news, I was an earlyresponder, and the viral load was undetectable by month 3. The 4 weekpost treatment showed I was also a non-sustained responder and theviral load was 24K. It kept increasing and jumped up to 2.1x10^6 at my5 month post treatment date. Since then it has fluctuating between1.9x10^6 and 710K. My last liver biopsy in Jan 07 showed stage 4cirrhosis with mild inflammation.A good friend of mine, Hep-C geno-1A, suggested this life

stylechange after he had relapsed on his third round of treatment. He wentto a totally raw diet and started working out regular basis. It kepthis viral load in remission for over a year now. I decided to try thisapproach instead of the 48 week re-treatment offered by Duke.I'm not selling anything here, and the information is free. I havebeen slowly modifying my lifestyle and have dropped my viral load from602K in Jan05 to 32K in Oct08. My liver enzymes are almost normal(SGPT=58, SGOT=52) and I feel great and have really improved my energylevels. If you are considering treatment, and are interested in what I did toaddress the viral load, I would like to help. Post here and I willrespond.

December 12, 2008

Hi ,

I, also, would like to hear what you are doing. Please send me off list the info.

I am using Dr Berkson's protocol and will be going to his clinic for IV treatment of Alpha Lipoic Acid in January. Anyone interested in that may email me off list and I will send what I have ---But you may also get a lot of info by simply typing in Dr Burt Berkson on yahoo.search. I just have several good articles I can email with out lots of searching.

We ALL know that as of now---THERE IS NO CURE FOR HEP C. The conventional treatment does give some SVR, but the virus remains--Just not active. And the figures are not wonderful ---many don't respond to treatment and it can be very debilitating for many.

The cardinal rule for slowing the virus is NO ALCOHOL. Dr Berkson also recommends healthy diet and exercise with his protocol. I do not take herbs. I do take the supplements recommended by Berkson. I have had Hep C 43+ years, do not have cirrhosis, and have not done conventional treatment. I have made my choice based on my situation. Don't know what choices I might have made had my situation been different.

I do believe that each of us needs to look at the whole picture before making ANY choices. The more information we have, the better choice we can make. So thank you for offering to share what you are doing. I look forward to getting the info from you.

Cheers, SuziQ

I have been a member of the group for some years now, lurking mostlybut I have posted a few times. My history is that I was diagnosedHep-C positive genotype 3A in Oct 99. I was a heavy drinker at thetime and my viral load was 4.9x10^6 then. I stopped drinking for 6months and my viral load dropped to 437,460. I started treatment inApr00 for the 24 weeks of Interferon and Rebotol. At 12 weeks into thetreatment, the viral load was 2231, good news, I was an earlyresponder, and the viral load was undetectable by month 3. The 4 weekpost treatment showed I was also a non-sustained responder and theviral load was 24K. It kept increasing and jumped up to 2.1x10^6 at my5 month post treatment date. Since then it has fluctuating between1.9x10^6 and 710K. My last liver biopsy in Jan 07 showed stage 4cirrhosis with mild inflammation.A good friend of mine, Hep-C geno-1A, suggested this life

stylechange after he had relapsed on his third round of treatment. He wentto a totally raw diet and started working out regular basis. It kepthis viral load in remission for over a year now. I decided to try thisapproach instead of the 48 week re-treatment offered by Duke.I'm not selling anything here, and the information is free. I havebeen slowly modifying my lifestyle and have dropped my viral load from602K in Jan05 to 32K in Oct08. My liver enzymes are almost normal(SGPT=58, SGOT=52) and I feel great and have really improved my energylevels. If you are considering treatment, and are interested in what I did toaddress the viral load, I would like to help. Post here and I willrespond.

December 12, 2008

Hi

I too am interested in what you have been doing? Glad you found

something to help. I have not treated and have been going the

supplement route with IV's of ala. Energy level is up so hopefully

that means the virus's is down.

Take care

Debbie L.

December 13, 2008

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the post

was going to be received.

1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NO

alcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually contain

alcohol.

2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, no

excuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just more

toxins the liver needs to process.

3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and is

toxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, is

that it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate the

metabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skin

and kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.

4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3

months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will start

leaching minerals from the system. Stay on distilled water for the

rest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.

5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thing

you can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes joint

inflammation.

6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liver

to metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a day

to stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today for

protein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-based

proteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cells

overburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studies

today say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easily

consumed via vegetables.

7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in the

system. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.

The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from the bones and

teeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones than

just taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually not

assimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys.

8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is very

low in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That's

why when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Your

stomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system is

saying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes are

the catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at

110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.

9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritional

void but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The body

stores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fatty

deposits must be stored away from the blood system, or else they would

make the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in the

interior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.

10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liver

has a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up and

starts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shifts

mode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that you

should be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. If

you are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal for

the best effect.

11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:

a. Enriched Flour

b. Salt

c. Sugar

d. White fat (meats)

e. Dairy

This is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic like

myself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also the

hardest for me personally to deal with.

The key to these dietary changes has to do with keeping the body in an

alkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and this

creates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virus

or parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidic

environment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fight

the virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with high

meat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver to

filter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend on

detoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed your

system trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health.

We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat it

with respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 days

with the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the most

important aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6

months in your lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement in

you energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weight

with this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.

Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices and

we are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.

(Shawshank)

December 13, 2008

welcome to the group

I do however have to disagree with you on the coffee,, in the last couple of years, they've found that coffee actually reduces the chance of liver cancer.. now thats not to say you need to drink an entire coffeepot of the stuff to do the job,, but one or two cups per day is NOT bad for you and can prevent liver cancer...

I also do question the low protein unless one has ammonia issues.. the Liver NEEDS adequate protein in order to manufacture Glutathione which is the most important enzyme in the liver. When on Interferon based treatment, one is advised to eat a protein based diet as it helps tx to work better AND it helps prevent nausea as well as worsening diabetes. That not to say that you need to eat bacon and eggs, fatty meats etc,, low fat proteins are very important for the liver... Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor.

If one has ammonia issues, then they do need to consult with their hepatologist or nutritionist to determine the correct amount of protein. Cutting way down on protein will pretty much almost guarantee failure with Interferon treatment.. not to say that there are not the exceptional rule here either but for the most part, one must be on a protein based diet.. and the riba should be taken with a small amount of fat as the fat will make it break down better and be more usable against the virus.

I agree that raw foods are really good for you but if you are on treatment, they may not be the best,, typically those on interferon treatment need to eat that protein based diet but typically they need to eat whatever they CAN in order to nourish their bodies. IM not talking about eating junk foods..but lots of raw foods can be impossible to eat while on tx due to the soreness most of us get and the canker sores etc,, raw food would be impossible,,

lightly steamed veggies actually are more healthy than raw as the steaming can help to release more of the enzymes and start the breakdown so that the body can digest them.

Im glad that you've found things that have helped you, but you cannot PRESCRIBE a one diet fits all here,, especially if someone is on treatment. I agree with the white stuff and along with you, sugar is my downfall altho I've never had trouble with alcohol,, I DO like my gobstoppers..lol.. but white meat is not bad, its the leanest if you are talking about fish, foul and poultry..

We usually remind people that especially while on treatment that we usually need to drink at least half our weight in ounces of water so we're drinking LOTS of water on treatment and drinking city water would not be good as it has too many things in it, arsenic, fluoride etc, so drinking FILTERED water is appropriate here. and since distilled water would need to have things added back to it, why not simply drink filtered water and add lemon juice to it so that it makes the body more alkaline?

EVERY person MUST discuss their diet with their doc.. as everyone has a different metabolism, different make up and as I said, there is no ONE diet that fits all..

WE 'try' hard not to prescribe here but to suggest.. I think you've got some good ideas here but we all have to consider that when on treatment, everything changes,,

jax

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 1:33 PM

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the postwas going to be received. 1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NOalcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually containalcohol.2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, noexcuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just moretoxins the liver needs to process.3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and istoxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, isthat it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate themetabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skinand kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will startleaching minerals from the system. Stay on

distilled water for therest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thingyou can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes jointinflammation. 6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liverto metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a dayto stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today forprotein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-basedproteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cellsoverburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studiestoday say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easilyconsumed via vegetables.7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in thesystem. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from

the bones andteeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones thanjust taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually notassimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys. 8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is verylow in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That'swhy when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Yourstomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system issaying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes arethe catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritionalvoid but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The bodystores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fattydeposits must be stored away from the blood system, or

else they wouldmake the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in theinterior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liverhas a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up andstarts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shiftsmode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that youshould be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. Ifyou are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal forthe best effect.11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:a. Enriched Flourb. Saltc. Sugard. White fat (meats)e. DairyThis is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic likemyself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also thehardest for me personally to deal with.The key to these dietary changes has to do with

keeping the body in analkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and thiscreates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virusor parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidicenvironment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fightthe virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with highmeat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver tofilter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend ondetoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed yoursystem trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health. We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat itwith respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 dayswith the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the mostimportant aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6months in your

lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement inyou energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weightwith this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices andwe are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.(Shawshank)

December 14, 2008

Subject: Re: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy---nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 14, 2008

Point well taken SuziQ,

I am sure that Jackie did not mean to be offensive.

Like you I know alot of vegans. Was one myself for many years.

Now just vary my diet.

Love

Janet

"There are souls in this world that have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go"

Frederick Faber

To: Hepatitis_C_Central Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:43:56 AMSubject: Re: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.

From: Jackie on <redjaxjmyahoo (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy--- nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 14, 2008

My sisters ex is also a vegan and he looks like crap , but the point is his daugher was admitted to the hospital for malnutrition at one point because she wasn't getting enough of the right proteins . On the whole most vegans are unhealthy , but they're are a few who do great .I am sorry you took offense at Jackie's post but it's her opinion as it is mine . The back and forth of this forum is that way cause of opinions , and tho many don't agree with each other . We don't attack when someone says something we don't like , take it off board if you feel that strongly but don't attack a co-owner . Nothing in her post was malicious

Re: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy---nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 14, 2008

Thanks Janet.

I could not follow my son's very healthy lifestyle as I simply do not have the discipline. Guess it sort of hit me wrong as I am--as all parents are--so very proud of him and his accomplishments. I'm quick to defend his lifestyle.

I do agree with Jackie that 's lifestyle is NOT for those doing treatment--at least from what I have read of treatment. However, a healthy lifestyle and diet helps many health problems .

Love, SuziQ

Quinn

In the swamp in secluded recesses, a shy and hidden bird is warbling a song. Walt Whitman

From: Jackie on <redjaxjmyahoo (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy--- nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 14, 2008

Well everyone, I certainly did NOT mean to offend anyone regarding the vegan diet.. Im sure that if one is truely dedicated to it one can be very healthy, Im only speaking about the ones I've seen who really dont seem to pay attention to what they are doing in order to make sure they get complete proteins via foods other than flesh foods.. I was not trying to offend you Suzi or anyone else..

I stand firm tho regarding the need for a protein based diet while on tx.. and with that,

Im going to take a break from this board because it seems that ppl for whatever reason believe for some reason that Im awful and IM truely sorry if I offended anyone..

This is the LAST and ONLY post I will make regarding THIS TOPIC on the forum and if anyone wishes to discuss it with me further, please email me privately.. I will NOT tolerate or participate in another forum war... Everyone certainly has the right to state their own opinions and what their experience is,, EVERYONE DOES... but what I do NOT understand is how anyone would think that I deliberately said something to deliberately hurt ANYONE'S feelings.

I will be back in a few days.. This emotional roller coaster is NOT good for me either...

Im available via email for anyone who wants to talk..

I love you all, Im sorry if I offended anyone,

Jax

From: Jackie on <redjaxjmyahoo (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy--- nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 15, 2008

Wait just a minute Ms,Ms.

I have to approve your leave of absense from the board. *grin*

Look I need you here. And you are very valuable to me.

If anyone has a problem with you they need to come to me.

I am the boss here. And I will deal with it in a appropriate manner. As I always have in the past.

Leave disapproved, because the Boss lady said so.

You can take a few days off, but come back post haste.

Love

The boss Lady

Janet

"There are souls in this world that have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go"

Frederick Faber

From: Jackie on <redjaxjmyahoo (DOT) com>Subject: Re: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:28 PM

"Vegetarians actually are not as healthy as those who eat protein and there are some B vitamins that cannot be found in any other food except red meat, of course you can supplement but supplements are never the same as what is found in real food. Most Vegans and vegetarians I've met are not healthy , look weak, gaunt and have very poor color and skin turgor."

For a different view of Vegans----My son, , has been a vegan for MANY years. He is NOT unhealthy--- nor are his children. In fact they were rarely sick as children. broke the WORLD RECORD for double Ironman triathlon in 1994 and his time was not beaten until 2002. He also competed in the Triple Ironman in 1994 where he came in 2nd with both 1st and 2nd beating previous records. He was 37 at that time. A number of his friends are vegans--and they are not unhealthy and sure don't look weak, gaunt or have poor color---nor do my granddaughters or their mom, who is an ER nurse.

I truly dislike the back and forth on the forum that erupts at times about what is right and what is wrong---But this rather demeaning picture that you painted of vegans was very distasteful to me---especially since it is a lifestyle my son has chosen and certainly is not an accurate picture of him or his family or his friends. He is in process of getting an advanced degree in applied math and physics while working full time and continuing with exercise. My older grand daughter is a college grad and works for Microsoft. My younger is in her second yr of college.

I don't believe that meant his post to be what we should all do. I think he was attempting to share a list of rules HE follows and perhaps worded it poorly. But I don't know that for certain.

Sincerely, SuziQ

December 15, 2008

i couldn't do it and wouldn't want to. i enjoy life more with many of

those things listed and i am willing to subtract a few years from my

life if it means i can enjoy it more. lucky for me i can take a shot

and a few pills but for those that can go through the kind of regiment

you suggest has my blessings.

December 15, 2008

HI , Please send me the info also to thestephanier@...

Just this weekend I ordered a book from Amazon regarding the Raw diet. Thank yo so much for posting!

Steph

Subject: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:25 PM

I have been a member of the group for some years now, lurking mostlybut I have posted a few times. My history is that I was diagnosedHep-C positive genotype 3A in Oct 99. I was a heavy drinker at thetime and my viral load was 4.9x10^6 then. I stopped drinking for 6months and my viral load dropped to 437,460. I started treatment inApr00 for the 24 weeks of Interferon and Rebotol. At 12 weeks into thetreatment, the viral load was 2231, good news, I was an earlyresponder, and the viral load was undetectable by month 3. The 4 weekpost treatment showed I was also a non-sustained responder and theviral load was 24K. It kept increasing and jumped up to 2.1x10^6 at my5 month post treatment date. Since then it has fluctuating between1.9x10^6 and 710K. My last liver biopsy in Jan 07 showed stage 4cirrhosis with mild inflammation.A good friend of mine, Hep-C geno-1A, suggested this life stylechange

after he had relapsed on his third round of treatment. He wentto a totally raw diet and started working out regular basis. It kepthis viral load in remission for over a year now. I decided to try thisapproach instead of the 48 week re-treatment offered by Duke.I'm not selling anything here, and the information is free. I havebeen slowly modifying my lifestyle and have dropped my viral load from602K in Jan05 to 32K in Oct08. My liver enzymes are almost normal(SGPT=58, SGOT=52) and I feel great and have really improved my energylevels. If you are considering treatment, and are interested in what I did toaddress the viral load, I would like to help. Post here and I willrespond.

December 15, 2008

I would also like more info,

mistystarla@...

THanks so much!!!

--- Ruggio wrote:

> HI , Please send me the info also to

> thestephanier@...

>

> Just this weekend I ordered a book from Amazon

> regarding the Raw diet. Thank yo so much for

> posting!

> Steph

>

> Subject: Diet, Exercise &

> Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.

> To: Hepatitis_C_Central

> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:25 PM

>

> I have been a member of the group for some years

> now, lurking mostly

> but I have posted a few times. My history is that I

> was diagnosed

> Hep-C positive genotype 3A in Oct 99. I was a heavy

> drinker at the

> time and my viral load was 4.9x10^6 then. I stopped

> drinking for 6

> months and my viral load dropped to 437,460. I

> started treatment in

> Apr00 for the 24 weeks of Interferon and Rebotol. At

> 12 weeks into the

> treatment, the viral load was 2231, good news, I was

> an early

> responder, and the viral load was undetectable by

> month 3. The 4 week

> post treatment showed I was also a non-sustained

> responder and the

> viral load was 24K. It kept increasing and jumped up

> to 2.1x10^6 at my

> 5 month post treatment date. Since then it has

> fluctuating between

> 1.9x10^6 and 710K. My last liver biopsy in Jan 07

> showed stage 4

> cirrhosis with mild inflammation.

>

> A good friend of mine, Hep-C geno-1A, suggested this

> life style

> change after he had relapsed on his third round of

> treatment. He went

> to a totally raw diet and started working out

> regular basis. It kept

> his viral load in remission for over a year now. I

> decided to try this

> approach instead of the 48 week re-treatment offered

> by Duke.

>

> I'm not selling anything here, and the information

> is free. I have

> been slowly modifying my lifestyle and have dropped

> my viral load from

> 602K in Jan05 to 32K in Oct08. My liver enzymes are

> almost normal

> (SGPT=58, SGOT=52) and I feel great and have really

> improved my energy

> levels.

>

> If you are considering treatment, and are interested

> in what I did to

> address the viral load, I would like to help. Post

> here and I will

> respond.

>

December 15, 2008

Hi ,

This is the best post I have read to date.

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 1:33 PM

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the postwas going to be received. 1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NOalcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually containalcohol.2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, noexcuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just moretoxins the liver needs to process.3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and istoxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, isthat it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate themetabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skinand kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will startleaching minerals from the system. Stay on

distilled water for therest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thingyou can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes jointinflammation. 6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liverto metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a dayto stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today forprotein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-basedproteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cellsoverburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studiestoday say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easilyconsumed via vegetables.7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in thesystem. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from

the bones andteeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones thanjust taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually notassimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys. 8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is verylow in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That'swhy when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Yourstomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system issaying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes arethe catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritionalvoid but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The bodystores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fattydeposits must be stored away from the blood system, or

else they wouldmake the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in theinterior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liverhas a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up andstarts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shiftsmode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that youshould be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. Ifyou are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal forthe best effect.11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:a. Enriched Flourb. Saltc. Sugard. White fat (meats)e. DairyThis is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic likemyself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also thehardest for me personally to deal with.The key to these dietary changes has to do with

keeping the body in analkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and thiscreates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virusor parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidicenvironment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fightthe virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with highmeat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver tofilter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend ondetoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed yoursystem trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health. We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat itwith respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 dayswith the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the mostimportant aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6months in your

lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement inyou energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weightwith this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices andwe are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.(Shawshank)

December 16, 2008

, Where did you get your info about the protein reduction?

Steve

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:33 PM

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the postwas going to be received. 1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NOalcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually containalcohol.2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, noexcuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just moretoxins the liver needs to process.3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and istoxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, isthat it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate themetabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skinand kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will startleaching minerals from the system. Stay on

distilled water for therest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thingyou can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes jointinflammation. 6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liverto metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a dayto stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today forprotein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-basedproteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cellsoverburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studiestoday say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easilyconsumed via vegetables.7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in thesystem. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from

the bones andteeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones thanjust taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually notassimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys. 8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is verylow in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That'swhy when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Yourstomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system issaying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes arethe catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritionalvoid but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The bodystores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fattydeposits must be stored away from the blood system, or

else they wouldmake the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in theinterior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liverhas a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up andstarts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shiftsmode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that youshould be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. Ifyou are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal forthe best effect.11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:a. Enriched Flourb. Saltc. Sugard. White fat (meats)e. DairyThis is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic likemyself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also thehardest for me personally to deal with.The key to these dietary changes has to do with

keeping the body in analkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and thiscreates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virusor parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidicenvironment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fightthe virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with highmeat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver tofilter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend ondetoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed yoursystem trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health. We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat itwith respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 dayswith the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the mostimportant aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6months in your

lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement inyou energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weightwith this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices andwe are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.(Shawshank)

December 16, 2008

Steve, please be very cautious about reducing your protein intake without discussing it with your own physician,, especially if you are on tx,, protein is very very important for your liver in order for it to make glutathione..

now if you have ammonia issues, then you probably would need to reduce your protein intake but your doc will tell you how much to reduce it to..

Just remember that we're all different and we all are in different stages of damage from this virus and so we all need to remember to run everything by our own hepatologist or GI.. What works for one person may not work for another...

just siding on caution!

jax

From: <dcat917charter (DOT) net>Subject: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:33 PM

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the postwas going to be received. 1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NOalcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually containalcohol.2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, noexcuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just moretoxins the liver needs to process.3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and istoxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, isthat it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate themetabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skinand kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will startleaching minerals from the system. Stay on

distilled water for therest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thingyou can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes jointinflammation. 6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liverto metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a dayto stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today forprotein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-basedproteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cellsoverburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studiestoday say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easilyconsumed via vegetables.7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in thesystem. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from

the bones andteeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones thanjust taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually notassimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys. 8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is verylow in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That'swhy when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Yourstomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system issaying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes arethe catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritionalvoid but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The bodystores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fattydeposits must be stored away from the blood system, or

else they wouldmake the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in theinterior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liverhas a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up andstarts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shiftsmode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that youshould be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. Ifyou are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal forthe best effect.11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:a. Enriched Flourb. Saltc. Sugard. White fat (meats)e. DairyThis is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic likemyself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also thehardest for me personally to deal with.The key to these dietary changes has to do with

keeping the body in analkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and thiscreates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virusor parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidicenvironment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fightthe virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with highmeat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver tofilter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend ondetoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed yoursystem trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health. We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat itwith respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 dayswith the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the mostimportant aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6months in your

lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement inyou energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weightwith this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices andwe are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.(Shawshank)

December 17, 2008

What Jackie said about any dietary changes.is so true, need to go through your doctor. And every bit of advice given on this site, whether it is

from a member or moderator should be checked with your doctor

before you try it. Each person is a different, and it takes different

ways to make sure that it works best for you.

Love

Janet

"There are souls in this world that have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go"

Frederick Faber

Subject: Re: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:40 PM

December 17, 2008

I must have missed the flame wars here, and am glad I did. Thanks to

all for their feedback, even those that contradict the post. I was not

aware of the caffeine being good for the liver. Yes, vegans and

vegetarians are at risk of low B vitamins and you will need to

supplement that area. Jackie made some other valid points and is much

more knowledgeable about the current standard treatments. She was very

helpful to me back in 2000 when I was treating and had relapsed.

My post was meant to be viewed as an alternative treatment and not one

to pursue while on RX for sure. This is more of an information sharing

exercise, ie 'your mileage may very', and only what I did, and one

size does not fit all. And yes I am not a doctor just a dragon fighter

like all of you that took a different road.

When I first was introduced to the idea it scared me to death. I

thought I could never do all of those things. But much like an ant

eats and elephant, one bite at a time; I started with the fried foods

and moved on from there. It took over a year before I was really in

the program, and I do occasionally indulge in some nice fried fish,

but only as an exception.

To my prior post, I forgot one of the most important dietary aspects.

Juicing raw vegetables and fruits. Juice your veggies and eat your

fruit. Buy yourself a good juicer, one that can handle carrots and

beets. I choose a Champion model because of the ease of cleanup. Beets

are great for the liver. Real live beets are nothing like what you eat

at Thanksgiving. I juice a handful of carrots, 1 beat, 1 apple, 3

stalks of celery. Strain it to remove the pulp that made it passed the

juicer and drink as soon as possible. This stuff is like a miracle

cure for me. I have had arthritis since I was 17, maxed out on

Celebrex two years ago, it was eating holes in my stomach, a quit

taking it altogether at that time. This juice and lifestyle has

reduced my joint swelling and sensitivity and I can now use those

joints with very little pain. Well enough about juicing, but if you do

only one thing on the list, do this one for the biggest bang for you buck.

Part 2: Exercise

The second part of the program that I would like to talk about is

physical exercise, it does a body good. I would like to suggest Yoga &

Pilates to you. These forms of exercise are low impact and build and

tone your inner core and strengthen the mind-body connection. Most

people shy away from these thinking they are to stiff or weak to do

it. That is not correct, the only requirement for doing Yoga, is

knowing how to breath. Take it slow and after about a month, you will

notice you are much more limber and in touch with your inner strength.

It will also improve your balance which comes in handy every day in so

many ways.

You also need a good cardio plan. Start out easy and be consistent. It

takes about 4 weeks for a new activity to become a habit. Any form of

cardio is good for the body. This gets more oxygen into your system

and that's where the body gets over 90% of its nutritional needs from,

without oxygen nothing works in the system. By increasing the amount

of oxygen to the brain (through deep breathing exercises or cardio),

we increase our mental abilities and life force. This will also help

increase the oxygen level to the cells and they will have more energy

for the body to repair itself.

The other aspect of physical exercise is that it helps improve the

body's mental and emotional state. We need to be outside breathing and

exercising, not inside where the air is much more polluted. It is also

very empowering to complete a good week of workouts and you feel

tired but much stronger and positive.

A positive attitude is also required. The effect of your brain on your

immune system has been scientifically validated. They call it the

placebo effect and it's a variable that all clinical trials must

factor in. The mind can influence the body and a negative mind can

weaken you prospect for recovery.

This leads into the last element of the program, the mind-body or

spiritual component. I'll post back to the group by the weekend, need

to go get some shopping done. Merry Christmas to you all, fight the

good fight.

December 17, 2008

NOW THIS was an excellent post and I am very glad you posted about juicing as I think its excellent too.. I need to try a real beet,, all I've ever been exposed to were pickled beets and just the smell of them cooking causes me to gag and wretch uncontrollably.. I dont know why that happens as I cannot ever remember eating much of them.. I do however remember a couple of places that put some beets on salad and I would have to have them completely remake the salad,, not just remove the actual pieces of beets or I would be tossing my cookies all over the restaurant.. My dear hubby buys them occasionally and hides them in his office and eats them when IM asleep, its amazing how they affect me but IM told if you buy real beets and cook them that they do not have the same smell.. I CAN taste the beets in V-8 juice too and I have to purposefully ignore it or I cannot drink it and I like the juice..lol.. perhaps if there ever was a past life or something,

I had some kind of bad experience with them,, I dunno..

I DO know that while I was on treatment that I could hardly drink any kind of juice because my mouth was so sore.. and eating fruit was difficult as well.. I managed to eat those dole fruit cups , I bought the ones in water and not in syrup.. but even those at times really hurt my poor mouth.

I think you have some excellent ideas regarding an overall program.. but while on tx, its so very important to get enough protein, whether from flesh foods or from veggies, beans and rice etc,, ones liver, unless compromised with ammonia issues really does need it to make glutathione..

Thanks for the great posts .. I hope you will have a great holiday and thank you for taking my post in the manner in which I gave it.. I wasnt trying to be 'critical', just telling what I know too..

take care,

hugs,

jax

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 5:26 PM

I must have missed the flame wars here, and am glad I did. Thanks toall for their feedback, even those that contradict the post. I was notaware of the caffeine being good for the liver. Yes, vegans andvegetarians are at risk of low B vitamins and you will need tosupplement that area. Jackie made some other valid points and is muchmore knowledgeable about the current standard treatments. She was veryhelpful to me back in 2000 when I was treating and had relapsed.My post was meant to be viewed as an alternative treatment and not oneto pursue while on RX for sure. This is more of an information sharingexercise, ie 'your mileage may very', and only what I did, and onesize does not fit all. And yes I am not a doctor just a dragon fighterlike all of you that took a different road.When I first was introduced to the idea it scared me to death. Ithought I could never do all of those things. But much

like an anteats and elephant, one bite at a time; I started with the fried foodsand moved on from there. It took over a year before I was really inthe program, and I do occasionally indulge in some nice fried fish,but only as an exception. To my prior post, I forgot one of the most important dietary aspects.Juicing raw vegetables and fruits. Juice your veggies and eat yourfruit. Buy yourself a good juicer, one that can handle carrots andbeets. I choose a Champion model because of the ease of cleanup. Beetsare great for the liver. Real live beets are nothing like what you eatat Thanksgiving. I juice a handful of carrots, 1 beat, 1 apple, 3stalks of celery. Strain it to remove the pulp that made it passed thejuicer and drink as soon as possible. This stuff is like a miraclecure for me. I have had arthritis since I was 17, maxed out onCelebrex two years ago, it was eating holes in my stomach, a

quittaking it altogether at that time. This juice and lifestyle hasreduced my joint swelling and sensitivity and I can now use thosejoints with very little pain. Well enough about juicing, but if you doonly one thing on the list, do this one for the biggest bang for you buck.Part 2: ExerciseThe second part of the program that I would like to talk about isphysical exercise, it does a body good. I would like to suggest Yoga & Pilates to you. These forms of exercise are low impact and build andtone your inner core and strengthen the mind-body connection. Mostpeople shy away from these thinking they are to stiff or weak to doit. That is not correct, the only requirement for doing Yoga, isknowing how to breath. Take it slow and after about a month, you willnotice you are much more limber and in touch with your inner strength.It will also improve your balance which comes in handy every day in

somany ways. You also need a good cardio plan. Start out easy and be consistent. Ittakes about 4 weeks for a new activity to become a habit. Any form ofcardio is good for the body. This gets more oxygen into your systemand that's where the body gets over 90% of its nutritional needs from,without oxygen nothing works in the system. By increasing the amountof oxygen to the brain (through deep breathing exercises or cardio),we increase our mental abilities and life force. This will also helpincrease the oxygen level to the cells and they will have more energyfor the body to repair itself. The other aspect of physical exercise is that it helps improve thebody's mental and emotional state. We need to be outside breathing andexercising, not inside where the air is much more polluted. It is alsovery empowering to complete a good week of workouts and you feeltired but much stronger and

positive. A positive attitude is also required. The effect of your brain on yourimmune system has been scientifically validated. They call it theplacebo effect and it's a variable that all clinical trials mustfactor in. The mind can influence the body and a negative mind canweaken you prospect for recovery. This leads into the last element of the program, the mind-body orspiritual component. I'll post back to the group by the weekend, needto go get some shopping done. Merry Christmas to you all, fight thegood fight.

December 18, 2008

Thank you for the info. GREAT!

From: <dcat917charter (DOT) net>Subject: [Hepatitis_C_ Central] Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_ Central@yahoogro ups.comDate: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 1:33 PM

Thanks for the response from the group, I was not sure how the postwas going to be received. 1. The most import thing to do is stop drinking, absolutely NOalcohol. Check your mouthwash and breath sprays, they usually containalcohol.2. Give up nicotine, it does the body no good, end of story, noexcuses. The same goes for all recreational drugs, they are just moretoxins the liver needs to process.3. Give up caffeine in all shapes. Caffeine is a stimulant and istoxic to the system. The reason you get a jolt out of the stuff, isthat it is a poison to the system and the body has to elevate themetabolic rate to purge the poison and eliminate it through the skinand kidneys. Taxing the kidneys is not good.4. Get yourself a water distiller and drink only distilled water for 3months. Do not drink it longer than that, because it will startleaching minerals from the system. Stay on

distilled water for therest of your life. You must add supplements to it however.5. Give up all forms of soda, diet soda is probably the worst thingyou can do for your system. It is all highly acidic and causes jointinflammation. 6. Cut way back on your protein. Protein is very hard for your liverto metabolize. They use to say you needed 80-100g. of protein a dayto stay healthy. There is no minimum daily requirements today forprotein. We have known for decades that diets high in meat-basedproteins have a higher rate of cancer and lower life-spans. Cellsoverburdened with protein become toxic. People in India. Many studiestoday say that you need only 25-35 grams of protein which is easilyconsumed via vegetables.7. Give up meat. Meat consumption leaves an acidic residue in thesystem. This must be balanced to keep the blood PH factor constant.The way the body does this is by pulling calcium from

the bones andteeth. It is much harder to get the calcium back into the bones thanjust taking massive amounts of supplements which are usually notassimilated by the body but passed back through the kidneys. 8. Eat as much raw food as you can tolerate. Processed food is verylow in nutritional value and leaves the body craving for more. That'swhy when you eat junk food, you're never really satisfied. Yourstomach is full, your glucose level is elevated, and you system issaying, `Where's the nutrition, where are the vitamins'. Enzymes arethe catalyst for your metabolism. Enzymes start breaking down at110-115 F. Eating raw or dehydrated food is the way to go.9. Stop eating fried foods. Anything fried is not only nutritionalvoid but the fat you eat with it does your body no good. The bodystores this excess fat in the system as fatty acids. These fattydeposits must be stored away from the blood system, or

else they wouldmake the blood to acidic. This fat first starts accumulating in theinterior around the organs, decreasing their affectivity.10. Get plenty of sleep. Do not eat a big meal past 9:00pm. Your liverhas a circadian rhythm it lives by. Around 3:00am it wakes up andstarts producing bile for the next days work. Around 9:00pm it shiftsmode from digestive to healing mode. It is at this time that youshould be sleeping. Sleep is the body's natural state for healing. Ifyou are taking supplements, take most of them in the evening meal forthe best effect.11. Stay away from the 5 deadly white foods:a. Enriched Flourb. Saltc. Sugard. White fat (meats)e. DairyThis is the hardest part of the diet. If you are an alcoholic likemyself, sugar is the one the virus will feast upon. It is also thehardest for me personally to deal with.The key to these dietary changes has to do with

keeping the body in analkaline state. Anything you eat will be oxidized by the body and thiscreates toxins that the body must eliminate to stay healthy. Any virusor parasite just loves the body to be acidic, they thrive in an acidicenvironment and die in an alkaline environment. Your body can fightthe virus, if you give the liver a break. Taxing the system with highmeat, fat, salt, and sugar puts a strain on the kidneys and liver tofilter out the waste for removal. The more energy you spend ondetoxing, the less energy you have for healing. If you feed yoursystem trash, it will not reward you with vitality and health. We are the lucky recipients of a self healing body. If you treat itwith respect, you can beat this disease. I will post again in 3-4 dayswith the write up on exercise and faith, but the diet is the mostimportant aspect of the program. You may not see results for 3-6months in your

lab work, but you will notice a definite improvement inyou energy levels and vitality. You will also loose lots of weightwith this lifestyle change and feel better than you have in your life.Remember this is life, not a dress rehearsal. We all make choices andwe are judged by those decisions. Get busy living, or get busy dying.(Shawshank)

December 21, 2008

This will be the last post of this tread. I hope you come away from

this discussion with some new insights into the value of nutrition in

our fight against the Dragon. It is not easy " living life in a certain

way " , but having been through the conventional treatment, take my

word for it, the nutritional approach is much easier on your body and

soul.

Part 3: The Mind-Body Connection

Here is where it may get a little out there for some of you. I am a

child of the 60's so I found most of the following to be very easy to

assimilate. On the other hand, being a retired software engineer and

with a degree in Mathematics, I have been trained to think very

analytically and a proof must be reproducible and verifiable. The

following discussion is about belief and the benefits of a positive

attitude, and will not hold up to the rigors of a provable theory.

None of the following thoughts are originally to me, these are my

distillations of readings and practices I have been exposed to.

Mental Preparation

Now this section can be applied to those of you currently under

treatment, since this is all about the mental process. My first

suggestion is to take responsibility for your own health. If you don't

have one already get a 3-ring binder and start filing copies of all

your labs, list of allergies, current Rx dosages, pathology

reports….everything. Ask for copies of any reports or lab work, keep a

medical diary of your office visits.

Most of us do not have a personal relationship with our doctors. If

you get 15 minutes of face time on your office visit, you are lucky.

If the doctor has done more that a 30 second scan of your file prior

to entering the room you are VERY lucky. To that end, you must have a

written list of questions for the doctor and be sure to take notes on

his explanation. If your doctor takes offense to your line of

questioning, get another doctor. Do not expect your physician to

remember your past treatments. That is your responsibility, have a

list in your binder that tracks all your surgeries and dates that you

can easily access. Have a chart of all your labs results for ALT, AST,

INR, Creatine, T_Bil, Platelets, body weight, BP. Know your Meld

score by heart. It is your health and your responsibility to manage

it. The doctors are your support team, they work for you. It is a

partnership with the goal being to get you healthy. Do your homework

on your condition, the internet is a wealth of information. Become

involved in your treatment and be proactive. When you start showing up

and the doctors office, prepared with your notes and questions, the

doctor will take you much more seriously. It will change the dynamics

of the relationship.

The Secret

I was introduced to this concept by a friend who was adamant

about getting me to view the video. I viewed it online and was

skeptical about it at first. The concept is called `The Law of

Attraction' or that we as individuals attract people and objects to us

based on our mental mindset. That negative thoughts produce negative

results. That the universe is made up of unbounded possibilities and

energy. That we as individuals can manifest anything we choose, if we

have the right mindset, and live a certain way.

Now this is quite a lot to comprehend and more than a little bit of

suspended disbelief is required to keep from going `NO WAY'. But ask

yourself, what if it doesn't work for you, what have you lost? But

what if it does work for you, now that would be incredible. Incredible

things happen everyday, miracles happen everyday. I know someone who

was an ER nurse for 20 years. Life in there is very tenuous at times.

I was pissing and moaning about my Stage4 cirrhosis lab results and

how I had such a limited shelf life one night. She told me that on

many occasions people were rolled into ER with non-life threatening

conditions and they never made it out. On other cases people were

rolled in with incredible injuries and not expected to make it through

the hour and they lived.

The point is attitude is everything when you are dealing with your own

mortality. So I asked the universe for something real simple on my

first test run of the Secret. I cycle and had busted my butt on a

crash. I needed a tennis ball to sit on an activate the pressure point

of the injury (my massage therapist said so). I did not have a ball in

the house. So I asked the universe for a tennis ball. Next day I

walked to the front door and looked out in the yard, and guess what?

There was a tennis ball out there. My second test was the purchase of

my new car on EBay. I asked the universe for a very specific year,

color scheme, mileage, and price. It took 6 days to find my exact

match and this color combo is very rare. It worked again. For my third

test, I asked the universe to kill the virus in me. I asked for a new

liver and normal liver enzymes. I wrote it down and still have the

paper. That was in March 2008 9 months ago. My latest lab work shows a

drop in my viral load from 588,000 in Jan07 to 32,300 in Oct08. My

last ALT=58, AST=52, T_Bil=1.0. It's working…. Do I have a new liver,

no I don't, but what I have is a incredible drop in my viral load and

liver enzymes that are almost normal. My liver is compensating and I

fully expect the virus to be undetectable on my next annual test.

Miracle's do happen everyday, and convince yourself that you deserve

one, that you are worthy of a miracle. The universe will respond, you

do not need to know the details, just be confident that it will occur.

A positive attitude is required for a positive result to occur.

Chi Gong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_gong

The practice of Chi Gong is an ancient healing art from China. It

defines Chi as the life force within us all. Every living thing has

Chi. What you will learn in Chi Gong is how to become more aware of

your body. It works on using breathing and mental imagery to visualize

what is happening in your body. You will learn breathing techniques

and guided imagery to concentrate your Chi and redirect it to parts of

your body that are in need of healing. Chi Gong is usually taught in

China in conjunction with Tai Chi and Kung Fu. I would recommend this

to all, it has a very calming and inward component of peace to it.

Yoga

This exercise can be of moderate to intense levels of physical

exertion. Women have an advantage in this practice due to increased

flexibility. Yoga also uses breathing techniques to energize the body.

It is a series of poses designed to massage your internal organs. As

people gain weight, the organs are coated and surrounded by body fat.

This fat decreases the flow of nutrients to the organs and subdues the

overall performance of your system. By doing Yoga we stretch and twist

and otherwise move the organs around internally helping them to break

up the fatty tissue surrounding them, increasing nutrient flow to the

organs. Yoga is a great relaxation technique as well. It helps us cope

with the stress of life and living. It ties in with Chi Gong very

well, but is more physical. As your energy levels start to increase

from the life style changes noted here, try out the hot yoga studios.

The one I use keeps the studio temperature at 90 degrees and the

humidity at 40%. You sweat your buns off but that is a good thing. You

are eliminating toxins from your system and your skin and kidneys

perform 80% of the bodies waste elimination.

Religion

I have been an agnostic for all of my life, up until 2 years ago. I

went through the 24 weeks of standard treatment with the belief that I

was being punished by God for my past indiscretions. I felt like I

deserved the pain and mental anguish that comes with the treatment. I

was single and alone and pulled back into withdrawal from friends and

family. I did not want their pity and I did not want their sympathy.

From researching the disease, this is a pretty standard coping method

among males. We are not really by nature the `get in touch with your

feelings' types.

What I did not know is that we all need a team to make anything

meaningful happen here. This group is part of your team. Here we can

share our symptoms and not be judged or labeled for our past actions.

That is why I turned to religion, I needed the support of a community

that believes in miracles. There is something comforting to the soul

to let go and believe, without proof, that miracles can and do happen.

Whatever works for you is the key here.

Conclusion

I hope you can use some of these methodologies in your struggle with

the Dragon. I wish you all peace, I wish you all prosperity, I wish

you all joy. This is your life, not a dress rehearsal, take charge of

your health, stay positive, miracles do happen. I will post back next

year with the same topic line to update you with the results of my

viral load and liver enzymes.

Namaste,

December 22, 2008

Again, Thank you .....

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 7:07 PM

This will be the last post of this tread. I hope you come away fromthis discussion with some new insights into the value of nutrition inour fight against the Dragon. It is not easy "living life in a certainway", but having been through the conventional treatment, take myword for it, the nutritional approach is much easier on your body andsoul.Part 3: The Mind-Body ConnectionHere is where it may get a little out there for some of you. I am achild of the 60's so I found most of the following to be very easy toassimilate. On the other hand, being a retired software engineer andwith a degree in Mathematics, I have been trained to think veryanalytically and a proof must be reproducible and verifiable. Thefollowing discussion is about belief and the benefits of a positiveattitude, and will not hold up to the rigors of a provable theory.None of the following thoughts are originally to me, these

are mydistillations of readings and practices I have been exposed to.Mental PreparationNow this section can be applied to those of you currently undertreatment, since this is all about the mental process. My firstsuggestion is to take responsibility for your own health. If you don'thave one already get a 3-ring binder and start filing copies of allyour labs, list of allergies, current Rx dosages, pathologyreports….everything. Ask for copies of any reports or lab work, keep amedical diary of your office visits.Most of us do not have a personal relationship with our doctors. Ifyou get 15 minutes of face time on your office visit, you are lucky.If the doctor has done more that a 30 second scan of your file priorto entering the room you are VERY lucky. To that end, you must have awritten list of questions for the doctor and be sure to take notes onhis explanation. If your doctor takes

offense to your line ofquestioning, get another doctor. Do not expect your physician toremember your past treatments. That is your responsibility, have alist in your binder that tracks all your surgeries and dates that youcan easily access. Have a chart of all your labs results for ALT, AST,INR, Creatine, T_Bil, Platelets, body weight, BP. Know your Meldscore by heart. It is your health and your responsibility to manageit. The doctors are your support team, they work for you. It is apartnership with the goal being to get you healthy. Do your homeworkon your condition, the internet is a wealth of information. Becomeinvolved in your treatment and be proactive. When you start showing upand the doctors office, prepared with your notes and questions, thedoctor will take you much more seriously. It will change the dynamicsof the relationship.The SecretI was introduced to this concept by a friend

who was adamantabout getting me to view the video. I viewed it online and wasskeptical about it at first. The concept is called `The Law ofAttraction' or that we as individuals attract people and objects to usbased on our mental mindset. That negative thoughts produce negativeresults. That the universe is made up of unbounded possibilities andenergy. That we as individuals can manifest anything we choose, if wehave the right mindset, and live a certain way.Now this is quite a lot to comprehend and more than a little bit ofsuspended disbelief is required to keep from going `NO WAY'. But askyourself, what if it doesn't work for you, what have you lost? Butwhat if it does work for you, now that would be incredible. Incrediblethings happen everyday, miracles happen everyday. I know someone whowas an ER nurse for 20 years. Life in there is very tenuous at times.I was pissing and moaning about my

Stage4 cirrhosis lab results andhow I had such a limited shelf life one night. She told me that onmany occasions people were rolled into ER with non-life threateningconditions and they never made it out. On other cases people wererolled in with incredible injuries and not expected to make it throughthe hour and they lived.The point is attitude is everything when you are dealing with your ownmortality. So I asked the universe for something real simple on myfirst test run of the Secret. I cycle and had busted my butt on acrash. I needed a tennis ball to sit on an activate the pressure pointof the injury (my massage therapist said so). I did not have a ball inthe house. So I asked the universe for a tennis ball. Next day Iwalked to the front door and looked out in the yard, and guess what?There was a tennis ball out there. My second test was the purchase ofmy new car on EBay. I asked the universe

for a very specific year,color scheme, mileage, and price. It took 6 days to find my exactmatch and this color combo is very rare. It worked again. For my thirdtest, I asked the universe to kill the virus in me. I asked for a newliver and normal liver enzymes. I wrote it down and still have thepaper. That was in March 2008 9 months ago. My latest lab work shows adrop in my viral load from 588,000 in Jan07 to 32,300 in Oct08. Mylast ALT=58, AST=52, T_Bil=1.0. It's working…. Do I have a new liver,no I don't, but what I have is a incredible drop in my viral load andliver enzymes that are almost normal. My liver is compensating and Ifully expect the virus to be undetectable on my next annual test.Miracle's do happen everyday, and convince yourself that you deserveone, that you are worthy of a miracle. The universe will respond, youdo not need to know the details, just be confident that it will

occur.A positive attitude is required for a positive result to occur.Chi Gong http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Chi_gongThe practice of Chi Gong is an ancient healing art from China. Itdefines Chi as the life force within us all. Every living thing hasChi. What you will learn in Chi Gong is how to become more aware ofyour body. It works on using breathing and mental imagery to visualizewhat is happening in your body. You will learn breathing techniquesand guided imagery to concentrate your Chi and redirect it to parts ofyour body that are in need of healing. Chi Gong is usually taught inChina in conjunction with Tai Chi and Kung Fu. I would recommend thisto all, it has a very calming and inward component of peace to it. YogaThis exercise can be of moderate to intense levels of physicalexertion. Women have an

advantage in this practice due to increasedflexibility. Yoga also uses breathing techniques to energize the body.It is a series of poses designed to massage your internal organs. Aspeople gain weight, the organs are coated and surrounded by body fat.This fat decreases the flow of nutrients to the organs and subdues theoverall performance of your system. By doing Yoga we stretch and twistand otherwise move the organs around internally helping them to breakup the fatty tissue surrounding them, increasing nutrient flow to theorgans. Yoga is a great relaxation technique as well. It helps us copewith the stress of life and living. It ties in with Chi Gong verywell, but is more physical. As your energy levels start to increasefrom the life style changes noted here, try out the hot yoga studios.The one I use keeps the studio temperature at 90 degrees and thehumidity at 40%. You sweat your buns off but that is

a good thing. Youare eliminating toxins from your system and your skin and kidneysperform 80% of the bodies waste elimination. ReligionI have been an agnostic for all of my life, up until 2 years ago. Iwent through the 24 weeks of standard treatment with the belief that Iwas being punished by God for my past indiscretions. I felt like Ideserved the pain and mental anguish that comes with the treatment. Iwas single and alone and pulled back into withdrawal from friends andfamily. I did not want their pity and I did not want their sympathy.From researching the disease, this is a pretty standard coping methodamong males. We are not really by nature the `get in touch with yourfeelings' types.What I did not know is that we all need a team to make anythingmeaningful happen here. This group is part of your team. Here we canshare our symptoms and not be judged or labeled for our past

actions.That is why I turned to religion, I needed the support of a communitythat believes in miracles. There is something comforting to the soulto let go and believe, without proof, that miracles can and do happen.Whatever works for you is the key here. ConclusionI hope you can use some of these methodologies in your struggle withthe Dragon. I wish you all peace, I wish you all prosperity, I wishyou all joy. This is your life, not a dress rehearsal, take charge ofyour health, stay positive, miracles do happen. I will post back nextyear with the same topic line to update you with the results of myviral load and liver enzymes. Namaste,

December 22, 2008

Thank you for this post.

Very informative.

Love

Janet

"There are souls in this world that have the gift of finding joy everywhere and of leaving it behind them when they go"

Frederick Faber

Subject: Re: Diet, Exercise & Spirtual Growth and how it reduced my viral load.To: Hepatitis_C_Central Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 9:07 PM