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Gordon,

I just was taking a quick peek at the postings while starting work

(it's 7 AM here). I do have some information for you, and I also want

to check a few things in the literature, to make sure I account for

divergent points of view; I may not have a chance to respond at

length until this evening, but respond I will.

If you happen to catch this response before then, could you let me

know approximately what drugs & dosage regimens you were " challenged "

with, in those clinical trials? I'd like to run it through a medical

software program I have (the Narcotic Equi-equivalency Calculator),

just for grins, and see what information we get regarding

tramadol/paracetemol (acetominophen in the US).

One thing I can mention here. You probably already know all this, but

others reading our dialogue may not: Paracetemol 4 x 1000 mgs (4000

mgs) is the low-risk limit daily dose of that drug. I have surveyed

the literature in the past, and generally the risk threshhold is

given as something between 4000 mg and 9000 mg, with the newer

journal/reference articles tending to be at or towards the lower

number, and also with tendencies for the lower limits to be the

conclusion of experts trained in pharmacology, and the higher

condoned dosages tend to be older numbers, and the conclusions of

medical doctors.

More tonight.

Hope you have a good day.

Best Regards,

> ,

>

> Thanks for the information on Tramadol, it explains a lot to me.

When I underwent the clinical trials in hospital of morphine and then

morphine mixed with oxycodone in liquid form orally every four

hours, being increased daily to try and reach a level of pain

relief, and it failed to do so even at high dosages, I was recorded

as non-responsive to narcotic painkillers. It was then that I was

started on Tramadol controlled release, 200 mg every twelve hours

because the pain management specialist had nothing else left in his

bag. I also have to take paracetomol 1000 mg four times a day. When

I said to the specialist that the paracetomol did not seem to be

doing anything, he said it was necessary to boost and maintain the

level of Tramadol . I do not understand this - in your research have

you come across anything regarding this ? I would be very interested.

>

> Regards, Gordon

>

>

>

>

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  • 3 years later...

HI Deb

OH yes! I find that if I take Tramadol at night I cannot sleep and

feel " wired " . Having read

that most people use it to help them sleep, I thought it was only me

and my reaction to it.

In fact if I take it in the morning I seem to have more energy! It is

definitely a " pick-me up "

for me!

Annette

On 7 Nov 2006, at 10:16, debnlen_75 wrote:

> What a great post!

> It took me nearly a year to learn the formula

>

> activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST

>

> I kept trying to push on as pre-RA...but figured it out eventually.

>

> Each morning I now have a choice

>

> a) Lay in bed with pain

> or

> B) get up & go to work with pain

>

> I have come to like B!!

>

> My son's fiancee (aged 24) has Crohn's, Lupus and now a recurrence

> of cancer in the cervix & bladder.She is an example of courage and

> kindness to all. More worried about my RA than herself.

>

> I feel that I will cope, no matter what comes!

>

> BTW - off the topic - does anyone else feel " wired " when they have

> Tramadol?

>

> Deb in Aust.

>

>

> >

> > Only those who live the life understand the emotional devastation.

> > The impact of the moment when it really sinks in this is for EVER.

> > There is no cure.

> > That this is your life, period.

> > It won't get " better. "

> > What you have to look forward to is only more pain and

> destruction.

> > This is the aspect of the disease that leads to

> > depression and feelings of isolation and hopelessness.

> >

> > It's okay to feel your anger.

> > But you need to let go of it as quickly as possible.

> > Anger is a negative stressor and your body and spirit do not need

> it.

> >

> > Look, I've had this disease most of my life and I'm a 26 year old -

>

> > twice....(for my mathmatically disabled counter-parts that means

> I'm 52)

> >

> > Yes, some people aren't going to get it. Period.

> > Ya just can't change people.

> > But you can change your reactions/response.

> >

> > You can go one of two ways. Be sweet and sympathetic and kill 'em

> > with kindness. Respond that you are so sorry they don't get it,

> they

> > don't understand.

> >

> > Smile and be pleasant then go passive agressive. Head on into the

> > kitchen and start " doing " something. Dropping everything in

> sight.

> > Aunt Melba's antique depression glass relish dish, the offending-

> > refuses-to-get-it-person's fav glass/ knicknack.... " OOOPPPS, I'm

> so

> > sorry. I'm trying to do something but my poor ol hands just don't

> want

> > to cooperate today. " Sometimes it takes down right nasty guerilla

> > warfare to get through to the thicker numbskulls.....

> >

> > For those who get nasty and impatient with you just ask them if

> they

> > would be treating you this way if it were cancer? You can't see

> most

> > cancers either, but RA is just as devastating in many respects.

> >

> > Don't be a victim. Don't be afraid to fight back. You do not

> need to

> > make excuses to anyone. Ever. Period. You are not a lesser

> person.

> > You are not less desireable, not less important, not less

> intelligent.

> >

> > You simply have a physical limitation that is quite painful from

> time

> > to time. Have the offending numbskull go to Google Images and

> look up

> > RA. Pretty scary.

> >

> > But DO NOT hang onto that anger. It is bad for you and the

> disease.

> >

> > If you are in pain ask for pain meds.

> >

> > I had one physician who advised me that there is no need to suffer.

> > And yes, your body can become dependant upon them,

> > but that is not to be looked at as a negative.

> > It is just another medicine/weapon

> > that you need to fight this disease just like the flexeril, MTX,

> > Enbrel, prednisone....they are just medicines. Not the boogy man.

> >

> > If you can't sleep, ask for a sleep aid.

> >

> > Yes, I know this looks like a lot of medication, but right now you

> need

> > this to get through this phase of the disease. Don't fight it.

> Look

> > at them as aides and remedies and medicines that help you in your

> daily

> > battle.

> >

> > If your depression doesn't lift after a couple weeks, ask your

> > physician for an antidepressant.

> >

> > Believe me, after having this disease for 43 years I can tell you

> from

> > experience, I'd give up the arthritis meds way before I would the

> > antidepressants......

> >

> > Now, about " Get up and do something. "

> >

> > I'm afraid I will have to agree with the numbskulls there.

> > I've had this disease long enough to know that the more you move

> the

> > better you will feel.

> >

> > There is a very simple formula to living with RA.

> >

> > activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST activity

> REST

> >

> > Just as you must respect your body's need for rest, you must

> respect

> > its need for activity.

> >

> > Yes, it hurts.

> >

> > But it's going to hurt no matter what you do.

> >

> > Wouldn't you rather be doing something you enjoy through the pain,

> > rather than lying around feeling sorry/bad/angry/alone/depressed

> > along with being in pain?

> >

> > I guess what I'm trying to say here is you have a choice.

> >

> > Let the pain live your life

> > or you can live your life past the pain.

> >

> > Start slowly, but be consistent and disciplined.

> >

> > Walk down the block and back. Every day for a week.

> > Then try for around the block. Then two, then three. A walk is

> so

> > relaxing and restorative. Take your fav music with you. Enjoy

> the

> > morning/afternoon sunshine. Or the evening decorated with your

> > neighbor's Christmas lights. Rest but keep moving.

> >

> > You must learn to live through and past the pain.

> > It's gonna hurt anyway, so you might as well live it up.

> >

> > Take care

> >

>

>

>

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Hello,

I don't have that problem when I take tramadol 50mg night or

earlier. If I did I would take it in the morning to give me energy.

Debbie L

>

> HI Deb

>

> OH yes! I find that if I take Tramadol at night I cannot sleep

and

> feel " wired " . Having read

> that most people use it to help them sleep, I thought it was only

me

> and my reaction to it.

> In fact if I take it in the morning I seem to have more energy! It

is

> definitely a " pick-me up "

> for me!

>

> Annette

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Hi All -

While I was on tramadol, I had increased energy, and a heightened sense and

feeling of well being. It helped with my pain only mimimally but when I stopped

it,

I experienced withdrawl symptoms for 2 weeks that felt like the flu, even though

I tapered the dose. For me, the benefits of Tramadol was not worth all I

went through. Each person may respond differently.

Dawn

[ ] Re: Re Tramadol

Hello,

I don't have that problem when I take tramadol 50mg night or

earlier. If I did I would take it in the morning to give me energy.

Debbie L

>

> HI Deb

>

> OH yes! I find that if I take Tramadol at night I cannot sleep

and

> feel " wired " . Having read

> that most people use it to help them sleep, I thought it was only

me

> and my reaction to it.

> In fact if I take it in the morning I seem to have more energy! It

is

> definitely a " pick-me up "

> for me!

>

> Annette

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Hi Annette!

Thanks - I thought that I was topsy-turvey, waiting for it to put me

to sleep & lying there feeling like springing out of bed to do the

vacumming! It does ease the pain though.

Have you tried the Slow Release formula? Did it make any difference?

Deb

> > >

> > > Only those who live the life understand the emotional

devastation.

> > > The impact of the moment when it really sinks in this is for

EVER.

> > > There is no cure.

> > > That this is your life, period.

> > > It won't get " better. "

> > > What you have to look forward to is only more pain and

> > destruction.

> > > This is the aspect of the disease that leads to

> > > depression and feelings of isolation and hopelessness.

> > >

> > > It's okay to feel your anger.

> > > But you need to let go of it as quickly as possible.

> > > Anger is a negative stressor and your body and spirit do not

need

> > it.

> > >

> > > Look, I've had this disease most of my life and I'm a 26 year

old -

> >

> > > twice....(for my mathmatically disabled counter-parts that

means

> > I'm 52)

> > >

> > > Yes, some people aren't going to get it. Period.

> > > Ya just can't change people.

> > > But you can change your reactions/response.

> > >

> > > You can go one of two ways. Be sweet and sympathetic and

kill 'em

> > > with kindness. Respond that you are so sorry they don't get it,

> > they

> > > don't understand.

> > >

> > > Smile and be pleasant then go passive agressive. Head on into

the

> > > kitchen and start " doing " something. Dropping everything in

> > sight.

> > > Aunt Melba's antique depression glass relish dish, the

offending-

> > > refuses-to-get-it-person's fav glass/ knicknack.... " OOOPPPS,

I'm

> > so

> > > sorry. I'm trying to do something but my poor ol hands just

don't

> > want

> > > to cooperate today. " Sometimes it takes down right nasty

guerilla

> > > warfare to get through to the thicker numbskulls.....

> > >

> > > For those who get nasty and impatient with you just ask them if

> > they

> > > would be treating you this way if it were cancer? You can't see

> > most

> > > cancers either, but RA is just as devastating in many respects.

> > >

> > > Don't be a victim. Don't be afraid to fight back. You do not

> > need to

> > > make excuses to anyone. Ever. Period. You are not a lesser

> > person.

> > > You are not less desireable, not less important, not less

> > intelligent.

> > >

> > > You simply have a physical limitation that is quite painful

from

> > time

> > > to time. Have the offending numbskull go to Google Images and

> > look up

> > > RA. Pretty scary.

> > >

> > > But DO NOT hang onto that anger. It is bad for you and the

> > disease.

> > >

> > > If you are in pain ask for pain meds.

> > >

> > > I had one physician who advised me that there is no need to

suffer.

> > > And yes, your body can become dependant upon them,

> > > but that is not to be looked at as a negative.

> > > It is just another medicine/weapon

> > > that you need to fight this disease just like the flexeril,

MTX,

> > > Enbrel, prednisone....they are just medicines. Not the boogy

man.

> > >

> > > If you can't sleep, ask for a sleep aid.

> > >

> > > Yes, I know this looks like a lot of medication, but right now

you

> > need

> > > this to get through this phase of the disease. Don't fight it.

> > Look

> > > at them as aides and remedies and medicines that help you in

your

> > daily

> > > battle.

> > >

> > > If your depression doesn't lift after a couple weeks, ask your

> > > physician for an antidepressant.

> > >

> > > Believe me, after having this disease for 43 years I can tell

you

> > from

> > > experience, I'd give up the arthritis meds way before I would

the

> > > antidepressants......

> > >

> > > Now, about " Get up and do something. "

> > >

> > > I'm afraid I will have to agree with the numbskulls there.

> > > I've had this disease long enough to know that the more you

move

> > the

> > > better you will feel.

> > >

> > > There is a very simple formula to living with RA.

> > >

> > > activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST

activity

> > REST

> > >

> > > Just as you must respect your body's need for rest, you must

> > respect

> > > its need for activity.

> > >

> > > Yes, it hurts.

> > >

> > > But it's going to hurt no matter what you do.

> > >

> > > Wouldn't you rather be doing something you enjoy through the

pain,

> > > rather than lying around feeling

sorry/bad/angry/alone/depressed

> > > along with being in pain?

> > >

> > > I guess what I'm trying to say here is you have a choice.

> > >

> > > Let the pain live your life

> > > or you can live your life past the pain.

> > >

> > > Start slowly, but be consistent and disciplined.

> > >

> > > Walk down the block and back. Every day for a week.

> > > Then try for around the block. Then two, then three. A walk is

> > so

> > > relaxing and restorative. Take your fav music with you. Enjoy

> > the

> > > morning/afternoon sunshine. Or the evening decorated with your

> > > neighbor's Christmas lights. Rest but keep moving.

> > >

> > > You must learn to live through and past the pain.

> > > It's gonna hurt anyway, so you might as well live it up.

> > >

> > > Take care

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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Hi Deb

I haven't heard of the slow release formula - I will ask about it

when I next see my

GP.

I would like to add that I only take Tramadol when in ALOT of pain

and would never take them

just for a " pick-me-up " . They just work better for me in the mornings.

Best wishes

Annette

On 8 Nov 2006, at 06:59, debnlen_75 wrote:

> Hi Annette!

> Thanks - I thought that I was topsy-turvey, waiting for it to put me

> to sleep & lying there feeling like springing out of bed to do the

> vacumming! It does ease the pain though.

> Have you tried the Slow Release formula? Did it make any difference?

> Deb

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Only those who live the life understand the emotional

> devastation.

> > > > The impact of the moment when it really sinks in this is for

> EVER.

> > > > There is no cure.

> > > > That this is your life, period.

> > > > It won't get " better. "

> > > > What you have to look forward to is only more pain and

> > > destruction.

> > > > This is the aspect of the disease that leads to

> > > > depression and feelings of isolation and hopelessness.

> > > >

> > > > It's okay to feel your anger.

> > > > But you need to let go of it as quickly as possible.

> > > > Anger is a negative stressor and your body and spirit do not

> need

> > > it.

> > > >

> > > > Look, I've had this disease most of my life and I'm a 26 year

> old -

> > >

> > > > twice....(for my mathmatically disabled counter-parts that

> means

> > > I'm 52)

> > > >

> > > > Yes, some people aren't going to get it. Period.

> > > > Ya just can't change people.

> > > > But you can change your reactions/response.

> > > >

> > > > You can go one of two ways. Be sweet and sympathetic and

> kill 'em

> > > > with kindness. Respond that you are so sorry they don't get it,

> > > they

> > > > don't understand.

> > > >

> > > > Smile and be pleasant then go passive agressive. Head on into

> the

> > > > kitchen and start " doing " something. Dropping everything in

> > > sight.

> > > > Aunt Melba's antique depression glass relish dish, the

> offending-

> > > > refuses-to-get-it-person's fav glass/ knicknack.... " OOOPPPS,

> I'm

> > > so

> > > > sorry. I'm trying to do something but my poor ol hands just

> don't

> > > want

> > > > to cooperate today. " Sometimes it takes down right nasty

> guerilla

> > > > warfare to get through to the thicker numbskulls.....

> > > >

> > > > For those who get nasty and impatient with you just ask them if

> > > they

> > > > would be treating you this way if it were cancer? You can't see

> > > most

> > > > cancers either, but RA is just as devastating in many respects.

> > > >

> > > > Don't be a victim. Don't be afraid to fight back. You do not

> > > need to

> > > > make excuses to anyone. Ever. Period. You are not a lesser

> > > person.

> > > > You are not less desireable, not less important, not less

> > > intelligent.

> > > >

> > > > You simply have a physical limitation that is quite painful

> from

> > > time

> > > > to time. Have the offending numbskull go to Google Images and

> > > look up

> > > > RA. Pretty scary.

> > > >

> > > > But DO NOT hang onto that anger. It is bad for you and the

> > > disease.

> > > >

> > > > If you are in pain ask for pain meds.

> > > >

> > > > I had one physician who advised me that there is no need to

> suffer.

> > > > And yes, your body can become dependant upon them,

> > > > but that is not to be looked at as a negative.

> > > > It is just another medicine/weapon

> > > > that you need to fight this disease just like the flexeril,

> MTX,

> > > > Enbrel, prednisone....they are just medicines. Not the boogy

> man.

> > > >

> > > > If you can't sleep, ask for a sleep aid.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, I know this looks like a lot of medication, but right now

> you

> > > need

> > > > this to get through this phase of the disease. Don't fight it.

> > > Look

> > > > at them as aides and remedies and medicines that help you in

> your

> > > daily

> > > > battle.

> > > >

> > > > If your depression doesn't lift after a couple weeks, ask your

> > > > physician for an antidepressant.

> > > >

> > > > Believe me, after having this disease for 43 years I can tell

> you

> > > from

> > > > experience, I'd give up the arthritis meds way before I would

> the

> > > > antidepressants......

> > > >

> > > > Now, about " Get up and do something. "

> > > >

> > > > I'm afraid I will have to agree with the numbskulls there.

> > > > I've had this disease long enough to know that the more you

> move

> > > the

> > > > better you will feel.

> > > >

> > > > There is a very simple formula to living with RA.

> > > >

> > > > activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST

> activity

> > > REST

> > > >

> > > > Just as you must respect your body's need for rest, you must

> > > respect

> > > > its need for activity.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, it hurts.

> > > >

> > > > But it's going to hurt no matter what you do.

> > > >

> > > > Wouldn't you rather be doing something you enjoy through the

> pain,

> > > > rather than lying around feeling

> sorry/bad/angry/alone/depressed

> > > > along with being in pain?

> > > >

> > > > I guess what I'm trying to say here is you have a choice.

> > > >

> > > > Let the pain live your life

> > > > or you can live your life past the pain.

> > > >

> > > > Start slowly, but be consistent and disciplined.

> > > >

> > > > Walk down the block and back. Every day for a week.

> > > > Then try for around the block. Then two, then three. A walk is

> > > so

> > > > relaxing and restorative. Take your fav music with you. Enjoy

> > > the

> > > > morning/afternoon sunshine. Or the evening decorated with your

> > > > neighbor's Christmas lights. Rest but keep moving.

> > > >

> > > > You must learn to live through and past the pain.

> > > > It's gonna hurt anyway, so you might as well live it up.

> > > >

> > > > Take care

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Hi Annette

I guess the dichotomy is that I have the most pain at night, so I

take it occasionally - plan is that if I have less pain I will sleep

better - but unfortunately although it lessens the pain, the irony

is that it keeps me awake! I might try some Oxycodone. I wonder if

opioids will pep me up?? I hope not - I just want a good sleep now &

again. It doesn't seem such a big ask. I don't want them every night.

Deb

> > > > >

> > > > > Only those who live the life understand the emotional

> > devastation.

> > > > > The impact of the moment when it really sinks in this is

for

> > EVER.

> > > > > There is no cure.

> > > > > That this is your life, period.

> > > > > It won't get " better. "

> > > > > What you have to look forward to is only more pain and

> > > > destruction.

> > > > > This is the aspect of the disease that leads to

> > > > > depression and feelings of isolation and hopelessness.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's okay to feel your anger.

> > > > > But you need to let go of it as quickly as possible.

> > > > > Anger is a negative stressor and your body and spirit do

not

> > need

> > > > it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Look, I've had this disease most of my life and I'm a 26

year

> > old -

> > > >

> > > > > twice....(for my mathmatically disabled counter-parts that

> > means

> > > > I'm 52)

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, some people aren't going to get it. Period.

> > > > > Ya just can't change people.

> > > > > But you can change your reactions/response.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can go one of two ways. Be sweet and sympathetic and

> > kill 'em

> > > > > with kindness. Respond that you are so sorry they don't

get it,

> > > > they

> > > > > don't understand.

> > > > >

> > > > > Smile and be pleasant then go passive agressive. Head on

into

> > the

> > > > > kitchen and start " doing " something. Dropping everything in

> > > > sight.

> > > > > Aunt Melba's antique depression glass relish dish, the

> > offending-

> > > > > refuses-to-get-it-person's fav glass/

knicknack.... " OOOPPPS,

> > I'm

> > > > so

> > > > > sorry. I'm trying to do something but my poor ol hands just

> > don't

> > > > want

> > > > > to cooperate today. " Sometimes it takes down right nasty

> > guerilla

> > > > > warfare to get through to the thicker numbskulls.....

> > > > >

> > > > > For those who get nasty and impatient with you just ask

them if

> > > > they

> > > > > would be treating you this way if it were cancer? You

can't see

> > > > most

> > > > > cancers either, but RA is just as devastating in many

respects.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't be a victim. Don't be afraid to fight back. You do

not

> > > > need to

> > > > > make excuses to anyone. Ever. Period. You are not a lesser

> > > > person.

> > > > > You are not less desireable, not less important, not less

> > > > intelligent.

> > > > >

> > > > > You simply have a physical limitation that is quite painful

> > from

> > > > time

> > > > > to time. Have the offending numbskull go to Google Images

and

> > > > look up

> > > > > RA. Pretty scary.

> > > > >

> > > > > But DO NOT hang onto that anger. It is bad for you and the

> > > > disease.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are in pain ask for pain meds.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had one physician who advised me that there is no need to

> > suffer.

> > > > > And yes, your body can become dependant upon them,

> > > > > but that is not to be looked at as a negative.

> > > > > It is just another medicine/weapon

> > > > > that you need to fight this disease just like the flexeril,

> > MTX,

> > > > > Enbrel, prednisone....they are just medicines. Not the

boogy

> > man.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can't sleep, ask for a sleep aid.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, I know this looks like a lot of medication, but right

now

> > you

> > > > need

> > > > > this to get through this phase of the disease. Don't fight

it.

> > > > Look

> > > > > at them as aides and remedies and medicines that help you

in

> > your

> > > > daily

> > > > > battle.

> > > > >

> > > > > If your depression doesn't lift after a couple weeks, ask

your

> > > > > physician for an antidepressant.

> > > > >

> > > > > Believe me, after having this disease for 43 years I can

tell

> > you

> > > > from

> > > > > experience, I'd give up the arthritis meds way before I

would

> > the

> > > > > antidepressants......

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, about " Get up and do something. "

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm afraid I will have to agree with the numbskulls there.

> > > > > I've had this disease long enough to know that the more you

> > move

> > > > the

> > > > > better you will feel.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is a very simple formula to living with RA.

> > > > >

> > > > > activity REST activity REST activity REST activity REST

> > activity

> > > > REST

> > > > >

> > > > > Just as you must respect your body's need for rest, you

must

> > > > respect

> > > > > its need for activity.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, it hurts.

> > > > >

> > > > > But it's going to hurt no matter what you do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Wouldn't you rather be doing something you enjoy through

the

> > pain,

> > > > > rather than lying around feeling

> > sorry/bad/angry/alone/depressed

> > > > > along with being in pain?

> > > > >

> > > > > I guess what I'm trying to say here is you have a choice.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let the pain live your life

> > > > > or you can live your life past the pain.

> > > > >

> > > > > Start slowly, but be consistent and disciplined.

> > > > >

> > > > > Walk down the block and back. Every day for a week.

> > > > > Then try for around the block. Then two, then three. A

walk is

> > > > so

> > > > > relaxing and restorative. Take your fav music with you.

Enjoy

> > > > the

> > > > > morning/afternoon sunshine. Or the evening decorated with

your

> > > > > neighbor's Christmas lights. Rest but keep moving.

> > > > >

> > > > > You must learn to live through and past the pain.

> > > > > It's gonna hurt anyway, so you might as well live it up.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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  • 2 years later...
Guest guest

I have not had any bad effects from Tramadol. I can't take LDN because

I can't stop taking pain meds, but thats because I am in a lot of pain

at all times.

Jeanette

sletteer@... wrote:

> i urge anyone taking this to stop asap. it is extremely addictive , extremely

destructive to the body. i just went through a detox and it was extremely

difficult. opiates are so much healthier than this stuff. these is a thread at

medhelp, called'emilypost' that supports those detoxing from this poison.

> also your pain will get better as soon as you stop. tramadol creates pain.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

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Guest guest

Can anyone back up some of these claims with some real research?

Jeanette

Jaco B wrote:

> Tramadol IS an opiate, albeit one engineered to not provide euphoria.

> But opiates are not healthy, not for long term use. When they block the

opioid receptors there is no opportunity for endogenous endorphins and

enkephalins to combine with those same receptors. It seems to me logical to

think that long term opiate use would impair immune function.

>

> There is evidence that cancer will proliferate more quickly during opiate use,

often prescribed for cancer pain.

>

> Jaco

>

>

>

>

>> From: sletteer@... <sletteer@...>

>> Subject: [low dose naltrexone] re tramadol

>> low dose naltrexone

>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 9:58 PM

>> i urge anyone taking this to stop

>> asap. it is extremely addictive , extremely

>> destructive to the body. i just went through a detox

>> and it was extremely difficult. opiates are so much

>> healthier than this stuff. these is a thread at

>> medhelp, called'emilypost' that supports those

>> detoxing from this poison.

>> also your pain will get better as soon as you stop.

>> tramadol creates pain.

>>

>>

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>>

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Guest guest

>

> i urge anyone taking this to stop asap. it is extremely addictive ,

extremely destructive to the body. i just went through a detox and it

was extremely difficult. opiates are so much healthier than this stuff.

these is a thread at medhelp, called'emilypost' that supports those

detoxing from this poison.

> also your pain will get better as soon as you stop. tramadol creates

pain.

I check with my pharmacy now with all meds I take., it is a good source

and if they dont know, they will look it up.>

I have taken Tramadol for fms pain for long periods of pain -It was

first prescribed by my FMS doctor, and it really does help with the FMS

pain.

I used it with 5HTP, a supplement that raises serotonin, and it has

worked for me.

However, Tramadol has an opioid receptor.,. I was on the tramadol

when I first tried LDN. Dr. Bihari wrote and told me it was dangerous

with LDN, as Tramadol has an opioid receptor. Check with pharmacy -

for drugs you may be taking with opioids and eliminate them, ifi you are

going to try LDN. However, I will have to take something else for

pain, unless the LDN takes care of that. , and I dont think so.

However it was extremely painful to detox from this with no help., which

I could have had,, but wanted to get off fast because of the LDN.

Tramadol has really helped me with FMS pain combined with the

suppplement 5HTP, but I think I will feel much better using LDN if I

can find a milder pain killer.Opioids are a no no to take with LDN,

However, the Tramadol was a life saver for my FMS pain.

Fibrofan

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Guest guest

> > i urge anyone taking this to stop asap. it is extremely addictive ,

extremely destructive to the body. i just went through a detox and it was

extremely difficult. opiates are so much healthier than this stuff. these is a

thread at medhelp, called'emilypost' that supports those detoxing from this

poison.

> > also your pain will get better as soon as you stop. tramadol creates pain.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >Jeanette - I totally understand your FMS pain, I am currently trying

something other than Ultram, and it has done a pretty good job, best that I

could find, but since it has an opioid receptor, we are not suppposed to take

anything with opioid receptor with LDN. (see my previous post re: this topic.)

I went cold turkey to get off Tranadik the first time after I found out opioid

receptors are a no no wth LdN. Dr. Bihari wrote to me when i first joined I

needed to stay off the Opioids when on LDN.

I am trying carisoprodol, today, which is pretty pathetic, a muscle relaxant,

you probably know, and I use 5HTP. I may try klonopin, for the pain, dont have

much hope it will help much. I currently use it for sleep at nite. Will see if

I can do it long enough to get off Tramadol the 2 1/2 weeks we are supposed to

be off the opioids before starting LDN again. klonopin, I think, may help,

some, but for now I am using the carisoprodol, it only works (barely) for about

4 hours, but it is better than nothing (I know, because I did it with no help

earlier ). There are other pain meds we can take that may not have opioid in

them - I tried and didnt care for.

Good Luck.

> >

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