Re: nada infiltration --help!

June 17, 2002

Dear Thanksforthisday,

I have (2) soon to be seventeen year old daughters. We co-exist with nada,

too.

It seems my daughters know how to handle g/nada better than I do. I tried to

raise them differently than I was.-(A source of much contention between me

and nada)

Your daughter seems old enough to be able to respond to g/nada.

I just tell my daughters (and son) to be respectful to g/nada, but to

graciously accept or decline what she has to say/give to them. G/nada has

sometimes tried to buy things which she thinks they should go gah-gah over,

and if they don't, and they take the gifts back, she takes it as a personal

affront.

One thing that I insist on is that my kids be real, and not put on fake

shows of adoration, just to earn her approval, and get her off their backs.

But sometimes, in order to keep hystrionic scenes from occuring, they resort

to " Oh, wow! Gee thanks, Gram! " , then they put the stuff in a drawer. (You

see, g/nada never sought our their tastes and desires. She's always gotten

things because she enjoys them herself. She never thinks of the recipient,

but of the giver, herself.) (Again, by buying them gifts (only very

sporadically)she's trying to: 1)Help her own conscience, (she's such a

thoughtful g/nada), and 2)Get the kids to do things for her.) " I buy you

such lovely things. NOW you have to help this old lady _____________ " (You

fill in the blank.)Wahla! Here come the strings that are attached.

You don't have to respond to nada. It was her choice to buy the gifts. It is

your choice whether to accept them or not.

Chances are, nada is sending them because she wants to gain your approval to

fill the void that she herself is feeling. (This in itself may be a selfish

motive for sending the gifts in the first place.)

I think it's great, too, that your daughter is learning at such an early age

to set boundaries for herself. My kids end up being the buffer for me, by

diffusing my nada's moods, and they don't take it so personally bec. they

realize why she is like she is.

Hope this helps you somewhat.

Gloria J.

>

>Reply-To: ModOasis

>To: ModOasis

>Subject: nada infiltration --help!

>Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:10:37 -0000

>

>My daughter (17) received email from nada this evening which

>said something along the lines of......

>

> " I don't have your mother's email address, (*I wonder why? - me

>being sarcastic). I just wanted to let you know the UPS tracking

>number for the birthday present I am sending for Rosie. The

>package includes 3 videos and a dress.

>

>Love,

>

>grandnada

>

>** I came home from a walk and daughter is yelling, " Mom! I got

>borderline mail from you know who!!! "

>

>I felt angry for about 20 minutes. I felt like blasting her back. I

>have chosen to do nothing. I asked daughter if she wanted to

>block grandnada's email. She said no because she likes to

>know what is going on. She does not like it that grandnada

>sends email to her, but she files it in the junk mail. She does not

>dislike it enough to block it, in fact she enjoys the soap opera

>aspect of it. That is up to her since I don't read her email

>

>I was thinking of sending a boundary setting email back, but as

>much as I would enjoy blasting her, that would be giving her

>something to go on.

>

>I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't want to

>interact with her.

>

>what do you all think?

>

>Kathleen

>

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June 17, 2002

I don't have any kids, I would like to but I don't know if I should

be reproducing what with the freak show of a family I have.(haha)

But anyway, my sister has 3 gorgeous little kids. I am always

worried about them being around thier " gran-nada. " All I can hope is

that with them living in a " sane " environment, they will know that

SHE has the problem, not them. I am just glad she doesn't find time

to visit more that once a month or so!

> My daughter (17) received email from nada this evening which

> said something along the lines of......

>

> " I don't have your mother's email address, (*I wonder why? - me

> being sarcastic). I just wanted to let you know the UPS tracking

> number for the birthday present I am sending for Rosie. The

> package includes 3 videos and a dress.

>

> Love,

>

> grandnada

>

> ** I came home from a walk and daughter is yelling, " Mom! I got

> borderline mail from you know who!!! "

>

> I felt angry for about 20 minutes. I felt like blasting her back. I

> have chosen to do nothing. I asked daughter if she wanted to

> block grandnada's email. She said no because she likes to

> know what is going on. She does not like it that grandnada

> sends email to her, but she files it in the junk mail. She does not

> dislike it enough to block it, in fact she enjoys the soap opera

> aspect of it. That is up to her since I don't read her email

>

> I was thinking of sending a boundary setting email back, but as

> much as I would enjoy blasting her, that would be giving her

> something to go on.

>

> I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't

want to

> interact with her.

>

> what do you all think?

>

> Kathleen

June 18, 2002

In a message dated 6/17/02 10:12:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

thanksforthisday@... writes:

> I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't want to

> interact with her.

>

> what do you all think?

>

Kathleen,

Good idea! If you answer her it would just open up a whole new story line in

the soap opera. Nada feeds on the drama....let's starve her waify little

behind!

I would recommend talking to your daughter about her choice to stay in touch

with nada, though. This is such a grey area, I thought of one solution,

which I rejected on second thought because it may have been parentification

of your daughter. How old is the daugheter in question? It is sooo hard to

protect ourselves and our children while letting our children make their own

decisions about nada! YUKKK!

What a rotten situation! Good luck, honey!

Hugs,

Debbie

June 18, 2002

I agree with how you handled it. I think our nadas are always going to do

things that make us angry. We've got to learn to separate emotionally so

they can't upset us. For so many years they've stayed in our heads and made

us miserable just by being there. And that's one way they manipulate us.

One of our healing steps is to keep them out of our heads. By not

responding you stopped her from moving into your head. I think that was the

perfect way to handle it.

nada infiltration --help!

My daughter (17) received email from nada this evening which

said something along the lines of......

" I don't have your mother's email address, (*I wonder why? - me

being sarcastic). I just wanted to let you know the UPS tracking

number for the birthday present I am sending for Rosie. The

package includes 3 videos and a dress.

Love,

grandnada

** I came home from a walk and daughter is yelling, " Mom! I got

borderline mail from you know who!!! "

I felt angry for about 20 minutes. I felt like blasting her back. I

have chosen to do nothing. I asked daughter if she wanted to

block grandnada's email. She said no because she likes to

know what is going on. She does not like it that grandnada

sends email to her, but she files it in the junk mail. She does not

dislike it enough to block it, in fact she enjoys the soap opera

aspect of it. That is up to her since I don't read her email

I was thinking of sending a boundary setting email back, but as

much as I would enjoy blasting her, that would be giving her

something to go on.

I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't want to

interact with her.

what do you all think?

Kathleen

To get off the list, send a blank message to

ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot; a

primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the

table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

June 18, 2002

Hi Gloria

My nada always bought us presents that SHE enjoyed buying, never anything we

wanted. And for Xmas and Bdays if we even mentioned something we wanted,

she would reply...I buy for my enjoyment, not to supply your shopping list.

Typical nada thinking.

nada infiltration --help!

>Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 02:10:37 -0000

>

>My daughter (17) received email from nada this evening which

>said something along the lines of......

>

> " I don't have your mother's email address, (*I wonder why? - me

>being sarcastic). I just wanted to let you know the UPS tracking

>number for the birthday present I am sending for Rosie. The

>package includes 3 videos and a dress.

>

>Love,

>

>grandnada

>

>** I came home from a walk and daughter is yelling, " Mom! I got

>borderline mail from you know who!!! "

>

>I felt angry for about 20 minutes. I felt like blasting her back. I

>have chosen to do nothing. I asked daughter if she wanted to

>block grandnada's email. She said no because she likes to

>know what is going on. She does not like it that grandnada

>sends email to her, but she files it in the junk mail. She does not

>dislike it enough to block it, in fact she enjoys the soap opera

>aspect of it. That is up to her since I don't read her email

>

>I was thinking of sending a boundary setting email back, but as

>much as I would enjoy blasting her, that would be giving her

>something to go on.

>

>I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't want to

>interact with her.

>

>what do you all think?

>

>Kathleen

>

_________________________________________________________________

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To get off the list, send a blank message to

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primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the

table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

June 18, 2002

In a message dated 6/18/02 11:45:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

crazydoglady@... writes:

> Don't just let it

> slide if it bothers you that much, but if your husband is willing to

> take his father aside privately, the problem may be solved without a

> lot of hoopla that you don't need. And here's to having your house

> to yourself once again!!!

>

Ditto Kathleen! I'm w/ Joy. You have enough to contend with w/o a wrinkled

Don wannabe teasing you! Good grief!

Hugs,

Debbie

June 18, 2002

thanks ....

I was up most of last night ---anxiety. I was trying to determine

the cause of my anxiety and it is the encounter with my sister on

the phone, and the email to my daughter. I keep thinking that

there is some way to set a firm boundary that is impervious.

I've got the phone thing under control, now that I know my sister

is not an ally. Email is harder because they somehow squeak

in...it is always the same thing. By sending my daughter email - it

minimizes me. It makes me look bad to them bec. I am not

pleased with my 4 year old getting a present from nada. I still get

mad at them when I realize I am being dissed. Nobody

understands the screwed up dynamic of these encounters.

I am holding my breath about what to do when that box gets

here. I would like to " return to sender " it. But then I feel guilty

about taking presents away from my daughter, then I feel bad

about making a fuss over it. I don't know what to do and it has

made me very anxious. I would like to set a firm boundary, but

perhaps my definition of a firm boundary is one that will not work.

I have to get to the point where I don't have an emotional reaction

to their badgering.

I do know one thing, I am happy when they don't try to contact me.

I feel at peace, enjoy myself etc. Right now with nada -sis-nada

things back to back, I am spinning with anxiety. Now sleep

deprivation.

Kathleen

June 18, 2002

My daughter has always enjoyed the " family show " not from an

involved way, but from watching it unfold. When we went to YaYa

she kept saying, " That's just like you MOm! "

She does not want to be in touch with nada, and she sort of

shouts out the email and then deletes it. Nada has tried to guilt

and waif her into responding, but my daughter just deletes. She

would rather delete than block, because in her teenager way,

she does not want to miss a fight where she is an onlooker.

I am more concerned about my 11 year old who was close to

nada. But was it close? Nada doted on her when she was little,

and then started controlling her and making her do stuff for her

when she was 6 and on.

My son who is 14 almost 15 and my daughter who is almost 13

are angry at the FOO for how they've treated us.

My now 7 year old is glad she is gone, he always saw through

her and she made him so anxious.

My almost 4 does not really remember her.

What my sister does not realize is that a relationship with nada -

under the current circumstances- costs ME too much. By

overriding me, it minimizes my experience. But these are the

people who will go out to dinner with Attila the Hun and wonder

why I have a problem with it!

Right now my inlaws are visiting and I am waiting for them to

leave. My husband has big unresolved problems at work. He is

home for a week's vacation.

My father in law thinks he is so cute. We were talking about a

tatoo and he said, " Your husband does not know about YOUR

tattoo. " (I don't have one and I thought that was fresh.)

The next day I was wearing a long skirt with a slit up to the knee

and he commented on it and said it made him blush. (He thinks

he is such a lady killer).

That added to my anxiety, because both things were said in front

of my husband and he did not correct his father. I am extremely

bothered by any comments like that bec. I was abused by

authority figures and come from a culture where you respect the

" elders " . No Lancelots come to my rescue, and yet I feel bad that

I didn't " say something " in my own defense. I get caught up in

wondering if I should say something to my husband, or let it go.

It's been a real rough 3 days (inlaws have been here since

sunday) and I don't know how other people feel but I feel I cannot

" be myself " until my house is to myself. They are very nice people

(father is cheeky but somewhat comical if I am in a good mood).

anyway, I want everyone to go home now.

Kathleen

>

> I would recommend talking to your daughter about her choice

to stay in touch

> with nada, though. This is such a grey area, I thought of one

solution,

> which I rejected on second thought because it may have been

parentification

> of your daughter. How old is the daugheter in question? It is

sooo hard to

> protect ourselves and our children while letting our children

make their own

> decisions about nada! YUKKK!

>

> What a rotten situation! Good luck, honey!

>

> Hugs,

> Debbie

>

June 18, 2002

Hi Kathleen,

I think your ignoring it was the right thing to do. She made an attempt to

get your e-mail in the hopes your daughter wouldn't know better and give it

to her. Dangling a box of gifts to sweeten the pot! Sooo nada!

My foo did the same thing with my eldest. She was 17 at the time too and

everytime this was done by them, she would tell me, we'd discus our views on

this and then we'd move on with our lives. I would commend her on her

ability to see things more clearly than I. And I saw that I had indeed

raised my girls in a healthier home. Score one for me and for you too!! :0)

Warm thoughts,

-- nada infiltration --help!

My daughter (17) received email from nada this evening which

said something along the lines of......

" I don't have your mother's email address, (*I wonder why? - me

being sarcastic). I just wanted to let you know the UPS tracking

number for the birthday present I am sending for Rosie. The

package includes 3 videos and a dress.

Love,

grandnada

** I came home from a walk and daughter is yelling, " Mom! I got

borderline mail from you know who!!! "

I felt angry for about 20 minutes. I felt like blasting her back. I

have chosen to do nothing. I asked daughter if she wanted to

block grandnada's email. She said no because she likes to

know what is going on. She does not like it that grandnada

sends email to her, but she files it in the junk mail. She does not

dislike it enough to block it, in fact she enjoys the soap opera

aspect of it. That is up to her since I don't read her email

I was thinking of sending a boundary setting email back, but as

much as I would enjoy blasting her, that would be giving her

something to go on.

I have decided to not reply, not react to it bec. I really don't want to

interact with her.

what do you all think?

Kathleen

To get off the list, send a blank message to

ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot; a

primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the

table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

June 18, 2002

Hi, Kathleen,

I know, fish and company both stink after 3 days!! From your

description, it sounds like your fil is trying to kid with you, in

his own juvenile way. Perhaps you could ask your husband to explain

to your fil a little bit about your abusive background and how

uncomfortable these jokes make you. He would probably be heartbroken

that he has hurt your feelings (at least I hope he would be).

Sometimes we need to stand up for ourselves, but once in a while it

sure is nice to have a thoughtful, considerate husband run

interference for us. Your fil's comments may not seem offensive to

others who don't have your family history, but I can certainly

understand how you would see them as a violation. Don't just let it

slide if it bothers you that much, but if your husband is willing to

take his father aside privately, the problem may be solved without a

lot of hoopla that you don't need. And here's to having your house

to yourself once again!!!

Hugs,

Joy

June 18, 2002

thanks folks. He will be horrified when he hears that I am bothered

by my husband has apologized to me about it and understands

completely. I don't want a big scene, just an offline reminder. I'll

let his formal son respond to the informal father.

He thinks he is very charming (father in law). Usually women respond

with giggles to his hambone style but for me it sinks like a lead

balloon.

thanks for the support!

Kathleen

> In a message dated 6/18/02 11:45:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> crazydoglady@i... writes:

>

> > Don't just let it

> > slide if it bothers you that much, but if your husband is willing

to

> > take his father aside privately, the problem may be solved

without a

> > lot of hoopla that you don't need. And here's to having your

house

> > to yourself once again!!!

> >

>

> Ditto Kathleen! I'm w/ Joy. You have enough to contend with w/o a

wrinkled

> Don wannabe teasing you! Good grief!

>

> Hugs,

>

> Debbie

>

June 18, 2002

This is definately not " cute. " I think he behaved completely

innapropriately. I am sorry you had to be treated that way in your

own home. I am lucky, I just have a little tiny one bedroom

apartment. No room for visitors! Before that, I had a giant

slobbery doggie, he was able to make my spare room a little less

attractive to potential " guests " ! So, I think you should get a big

stinky mean doggie! He was also the very best friend I ever had and

he always took my side and stood up for me, even if I was wrong

> > In a message dated 6/18/02 11:45:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > crazydoglady@i... writes:

> >

> > > Don't just let it

> > > slide if it bothers you that much, but if your husband is

willing

> to

> > > take his father aside privately, the problem may be solved

> without a

> > > lot of hoopla that you don't need. And here's to having your

> house

> > > to yourself once again!!!

> > >

> >

> > Ditto Kathleen! I'm w/ Joy. You have enough to contend with w/o

a

> wrinkled

> > Don wannabe teasing you! Good grief!

> >

> > Hugs,

> >

> > Debbie

> >

June 18, 2002

since this is blunt city, I will go ahead and say what I truly believe.

My husband has a wimpy streak when coming head to head with

authority....it stems from his relationship with his dad who is very

patriarchal. Not BP stuff. But really culture bound. He always

clears his throat and edits what he has to say if he talks with his

father, and conversations tend to sound like interviews, or else

there is a lot of silly stuff.

His mom plays a straight faced kind of jolly simpleton. She

answers his jokes with a kind of straight kind no reaction face.

It's something they do.

I feel sorry for them because they've had two kids die in recent

years, and they've pulled themselves out of the grief quagmire.

When I met my fil, I tagged him as a stuckin the mud selfish

bigot. My husband has gotten better. After all, he married me

when I got pregnant, and his his stuffy New England family that

was WILD to marry a mixed blood Catholic. Well they do love me.

But I am mad at my husband for his typical wimpery in this

category. I've told him so, he gets it. Now he is walking around

looking so stressed that he " failed " me. OH WELL. WHAT'S

NEW????

I told him my fada NEVER spoke to us as though we were

objects or interesting to look at. I told husband that I want his

father to give me the respect he would a blood daughter. My late

sister in law was treated with great respect by fil. I expect the

same treatment.

Kathleen

-- In ModOasis@y..., " anyrae " <anyrae75@a...> wrote:

> This is definately not " cute. " I think he behaved completely

> innapropriately. I am sorry you had to be treated that way in

your

> own home. I am lucky, I just have a little tiny one bedroom

> apartment. No room for visitors! Before that, I had a giant

> slobbery doggie, he was able to make my spare room a little

less

> attractive to potential " guests " ! So, I think you should get a big

> stinky mean doggie! He was also the very best friend I ever

had and

> he always took my side and stood up for me, even if I was

wrong

>

> > > In a message dated 6/18/02 11:45:00 AM Eastern Daylight

Time,

> > > crazydoglady@i... writes:

> > >

> > > > Don't just let it

> > > > slide if it bothers you that much, but if your husband is

> willing

> > to

> > > > take his father aside privately, the problem may be solved

> > without a

> > > > lot of hoopla that you don't need. And here's to having

your

> > house

> > > > to yourself once again!!!

> > > >

> > >

> > > Ditto Kathleen! I'm w/ Joy. You have enough to contend

with w/o

> a

> > wrinkled

> > > Don wannabe teasing you! Good grief!

> > >

> > > Hugs,

> > >

> > > Debbie

> > >

June 18, 2002

Hi Gloria

My nada always bought us presents that SHE enjoyed buying, never

anything we

wanted. And for Xmas and Bdays if we even mentioned something we

wanted,

she would reply...I buy for my enjoyment, not to supply your shopping

list.

Typical nada thinking.

---

*** I'm chuckling reading this thread. Same here! My nada has a " gift

closet " . She pulls from it as she sees fit. And the kids have to be

ecstatic with whatever she bestows on them.

Her other big thing is that " we give them everything anyway " , so she

doesn't have to. How often I haven't had the conversation " it's about

the giving, mom, if you don't feel like giving, then don't " .

My kids " never " (according to her, but she's not here all the time, as I

dutifully explain way too many times) play with the things she gives

them (well, I can't blame them, she never tries to see what they truly

want and the rare time she does, she's so surprised when they are

thrilled with the gift!).

I dread Christmas, as I never fail to get the " it's not going to be much

this year " speech. And then we get inundated anyway, because she had to

empty her gift closet.

Petra (mailto:Petra@...)

June 18, 2002

my mother has said this every single Christmas since I can remember.

It always makes me feel like I am some greedy, materialistic, spoiled

brat--that I expect tons of gifts. I remember many years my sister

and I saying " we don't care about the presents, we just want you to

be happy " I guess they don't sell happiness where she shops, cause

we never got that gift! For me a successful holiday (any family

gathering for that matter)is when no one cries, throws anything, hits

anyone, slams a door or hopes the next gift is a gun for which to

shoot themselves with.

>>I dread Christmas, as I never fail to get the " it's not going to be

much

this year " speech.

> Hi Gloria

>

> My nada always bought us presents that SHE enjoyed buying, never

> anything we

> wanted. And for Xmas and Bdays if we even mentioned something we

> wanted,

> she would reply...I buy for my enjoyment, not to supply your

shopping

> list.

> Typical nada thinking.

>

> ---

> *** I'm chuckling reading this thread. Same here! My nada has

a " gift

> closet " . She pulls from it as she sees fit. And the kids have to

be

> ecstatic with whatever she bestows on them.

> Her other big thing is that " we give them everything anyway " , so she

> doesn't have to. How often I haven't had the conversation " it's

about

> the giving, mom, if you don't feel like giving, then don't " .

> My kids " never " (according to her, but she's not here all the time,

as I

> dutifully explain way too many times) play with the things she gives

> them (well, I can't blame them, she never tries to see what they

truly

> want and the rare time she does, she's so surprised when they are

> thrilled with the gift!).

> I dread Christmas, as I never fail to get the " it's not going to be

much

> this year " speech. And then we get inundated anyway, because she

had to

> empty her gift closet.

>

> Petra (mailto:Petra@k...)

>

June 18, 2002