Re: 21 Ways to Stay in Peace #5

[Guest guest]

Hello Steve,

Just a reminder (since you do know from the postings I've seen) that there is a

'past' ... 'present' ... and 'future' as words that we've 'agreed' upon except

for when we haven't.

Your postings as well as others are enlightening.

Thanks!

Bob

Re: 21 Ways to Stay in Peace #5

Dear Carol:

The point I was attempting to make was that there is no " past "

or " future " , therefore any concept of a past of future is a lie and

that is not our nature.

More importantly via this exchange, I have found that I have a story

that " I must defend . " Isn't that a hoot! needs

defending, yea, right. Of coure not, but I must believe that my

story around needs defending.

My story about needs defending to others.

Is it true? No.

Can I really know that it is true? No.

What do I get when I hold that belief?

I get to feel angry, frustrated, upset, impatient with others.

I get to belief that I am right and others are wrong.

I get to believe that I know what meant and others didn't.

Can I see a reason to drop that thought? Yes.

Can I see a peaceful reason to keep that thought? No.

Who would I be without that thought?

I would be peacefully reading others posts with a clear, open mind.

I would be less arrogant.

TA#1: My story about does not need defending to others.

TA#2: My thinking does not need to be defended to others.

TA#3: My thinking does not need defending to me.

Anyone else see some more here? This is a big one since it is across

the board.

Love, Steve D.

> > > > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> > > >

> > > > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the

past

> > or

> > > future.

> > > > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to,

> etc.

> > To

> > > speak of

> > > > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully

in

> > the

> > > present,

> > > > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present

> for

> > us

> > > now. To

> > > > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If

you

> > > want to

> > > > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to

experience

> > > shame and

> > > > guilt, think of the past.

> > > >

> > > > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this messa

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> I'm beginning to see what this list was removed from the website.

> Some of it's not well thought out, IMNSHO.

>

Daily wrote:

> My guess is that they removed it along with other things from the

> website because it does not have anything to do with The Work and

> could be confusing to the newcomer.<<

Carol wrote:

My guess is that they did have something to do with The Work at one

time, and that's the story of a past!

======

Mona writes:

It's not on the website anymore? Is that true?

On my computer it is...The document 21 Ways to Stay in Peace is under Work in

Print...and then Downloadable Materials.

The clip from the 5th way says: " If you want to experience fear, think of the

future. If you want to experience shame and guilt, think of the past. "

I don't hear it saying, If you want to think of the past you'll always be

shameful and ridden with guilt. I hear it suggesting that if you're

interested in feeling shame and guilt, go ahead and look in you past..you'll

probably find some there.

When I look back in my past to the *good/happy* times, I still see room for

me to use them as ways to make myself feel guilty. I can always follow my

train of happy past thoughts, to a time where it started being *not so happy*

-- the guilt came in...the shame.

I had a great time when my Nana came to visit when I was in middle school.

Then she suddenly got upset about something and left back to NY. So I started

reliving the whole *happy* visit, looking for the thing that I did wrong,

making myself feel guilty for her leaving. I stopped being present and went

back looking for my mistake..and all I found was shame/guilt in this

*good/happy* memory of being with her. So now, I think about it and I can

have judgments like, She wouldn't have left if I would have gone over to her

hotel when she asked...I should have been nicer to her. Full of guilt and

shame. My experience.

What's underneath your past good/happy memories, Carol?

*m

[Guest guest]

This assumes that the past was all bad. What if the stuff I'm

speaking of in the past is pleasant stuff? Will that make me

experience shame and guilt? Non-presence, maybe, but shame and

guilt???

I'm beginning to see what this list was removed from the website.

Some of it's not well thought out, IMNSHO.

Love, Carol

> #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

>

> Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the past or

future.

> Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to, etc. To

speak of

> the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully in the

present,

> if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present for us

now. To

> speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If you

want to

> experience fear, think of the future. If you want to experience

shame and

> guilt, think of the past.

>

> From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have bee

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/7/2002 3:09:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

lafdaily@... writes:

> TA#1: My story about does not need defending to others.

> TA#2: My thinking does not need to be defended to others.

> TA#3: My thinking does not need defending to me.

>

> Anyone else see some more here? This is a big one since it is across

> the board.

Maybe:

TA> Other people need to defend their stories of ...if they do.

TA> Other people need to defend my story of ..if they do.

TA> I'm defensive when I defend myself from the stories I tell.

TA> I don't have a story about .

TA> It's OK to defend ...if that's what I do.

[Guest guest]

---The past is a construction of reality based on fragments of

remembered things. If you're basing your assumptions about life on these

made up things passing as truth, then I believe you're not basing them

on reality, just a construct of it...one that is shaped more by your

story, than what happened. I don't know if " shame and guilt " have a

place in the future or the past, but for reasons I can't explain it's

been my experience that it pans out that way. How we remember what we've

done is different from how we visualize what we'll do. For most people

what we've done is screwed up somehow and what we'll do has got to be

better. A lot of us experience shame and guilt when we assess our lives

in the past. " Shame " for the things we've done that we thought didn't

work out and " guilt " for allowing them to happen.

---It makes sense to me, to pull your thought processes into " now " . In

this point and time are the most options. There's no part of you

prejudging, so your creative part has free reign. The future is a

question mark, the past has already been prejudged. Where is the most

potential for unfettered creative problem solving? My guess is in the

" now " . So if you're using words that indicate past things, that would

signal to me that your problem solving resources are coming from a bad

source, constructed positively or negatively, out of your story, not

your reality.

---The thing to remember about is that she's just like us. And

even thought those four questions sound pretty concrete, she is still

evolving with " The Work " too. She is also not obligated to write us a

perfected check list, nor should her words be picked through like a law.

" The Work " is an idea, and once you get the idea, the words that support

the process can be discarded, because everything out of your mouth will

be couched in the essence of that idea. You won't need to dissect things

in steps, or trouble over what meant, you may not even need to do

" The Work " any more, the idea behind it will just automatically sort

every thought you have into a position that loves reality. " The Work "

didn't come carved in stone or spoken from a burning bush, it came at a

moment that a cockroach traveled across the foot of someone beaten down

by life to the degree not may people could hope to recover from. So I

personally don't expect everything she says to bear the weight of my

withering scrutiny, and if that's how I approach " The Work " anyway, then

I think I have a way to go to get its point.

---I've arrived at a place where I never trouble over the four

questions. Somewhere in the process of learning " The Work " I got the

idea and right or wrong this is my measuring device to determine what's

real or what I'm making up. I do it on the fly. So I'm not trying to

glean meaning from every syllable of what writes or says...for my

purposes...I got it. Still I don't want to discourage others from

" meaning divination " , because observations from that are interesting to

me, providing viewpoints from facets of " The Work " that serve to hone my

automatic " reality discerning " machine. They're just not worthy tools

for pidgin holing or diminishing what she's said, they're tools for

enhancing and fleshing out what I think about it.

This assumes that the past was all bad. What if the stuff I'm

speaking of in the past is pleasant stuff? Will that make me

experience shame and guilt? Non-presence, maybe, but shame and

guilt???

I'm beginning to see what this list was removed from the website.

Some of it's not well thought out, IMNSHO.

Love, Carol

> #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

>

> Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the past or

future.

> Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to, etc. To

speak of

> the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully in the

present,

> if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present for us

now. To

> speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If you

want to

> experience fear, think of the future. If you want to experience

shame and

> guilt, think of the past.

>

> From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have bee

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol:

You said: " This assumes that the past was all bad. " I do not agree

with your judgement of the " 21 Ways " . This #5 only assumes that our

story of the past is a lie, whether it is judged to be good or bad.

It does assume that there is no such thing as a past (or future) and

therefore any story we attach to about it is a lie and just another

way to keep us separated from our truth and as you said, " not

present " .

My guess is that they removed it along with other things from the

website because it does not have anything to do with The Work and

could be confusing to the newcomer.

Love, Steve D.

> > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> >

> > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the past

or

> future.

> > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to, etc.

To

> speak of

> > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully in

the

> present,

> > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present for

us

> now. To

> > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If you

> want to

> > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to experience

> shame and

> > guilt, think of the past.

> >

> > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have bee

[Guest guest]

> > > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> > >

> > > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the past

> or

> > future.

> > > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to,

etc.

> To

> > speak of

> > > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully in

> the

> > present,

> > > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present

for

> us

> > now. To

> > > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If you

> > want to

> > > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to experience

> > shame and

> > > guilt, think of the past.

> > >

> > > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this messa

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol:

The point I was attempting to make was that there is no " past "

or " future " , therefore any concept of a past of future is a lie and

that is not our nature.

More importantly via this exchange, I have found that I have a story

that " I must defend . " Isn't that a hoot! needs

defending, yea, right. Of coure not, but I must believe that my

story around needs defending.

My story about needs defending to others.

Is it true? No.

Can I really know that it is true? No.

What do I get when I hold that belief?

I get to feel angry, frustrated, upset, impatient with others.

I get to belief that I am right and others are wrong.

I get to believe that I know what meant and others didn't.

Can I see a reason to drop that thought? Yes.

Can I see a peaceful reason to keep that thought? No.

Who would I be without that thought?

I would be peacefully reading others posts with a clear, open mind.

I would be less arrogant.

TA#1: My story about does not need defending to others.

TA#2: My thinking does not need to be defended to others.

TA#3: My thinking does not need defending to me.

Anyone else see some more here? This is a big one since it is across

the board.

Love, Steve D.

> > > > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> > > >

> > > > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the

past

> > or

> > > future.

> > > > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to,

> etc.

> > To

> > > speak of

> > > > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it fully

in

> > the

> > > present,

> > > > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is present

> for

> > us

> > > now. To

> > > > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy. If

you

> > > want to

> > > > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to

experience

> > > shame and

> > > > guilt, think of the past.

> > > >

> > > > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this messa

[Guest guest]

> > > > > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> > > > >

> > > > > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the

> past

> > > or

> > > > future.

> > > > > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going

to,

> > etc.

> > > To

> > > > speak of

> > > > > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it

fully

> in

> > > the

> > > > present,

> > > > > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is

present

> > for

> > > us

> > > > now. To

> > > > > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy.

If

> you

> > > > want to

> > > > > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to

> experience

> > > > shame and

> > > > > guilt, think of the past.

> > > > >

> > > > > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this messa

[Guest guest]

In terms of speaking more literally, I'm going to be mindful today of using

the verb " to be " in describing things, and notice how it affects my

thinking.

For example, when I say " This house *is* a mess, " I notice it feels

different from when I say " This house has a mess in it. "

I still have my story that the mess shouldn't exist, but it's way more

peaceful, and I have sweeter feelings about my passively innocent house. It

seems to have a similar affect when I'm describing people, myself or my

thoughts.

(I got this idea from Albert Ellis's Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy

writings several years ago.)

Love,

Bev

P.S. I suddenly feel so cozy and sweet about my house this moment, and I

just pulled that example out of the air!

> -----Original Message-----

> From: smilemona@...

> #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

>

> Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on the past

> or future.

> Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going to, etc.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mona:

Thanks for your help. Those are good ones!

Steve D.

> In a message dated 12/7/2002 3:09:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> lafdaily@a... writes:

>

> > TA#1: My story about does not need defending to others.

> > TA#2: My thinking does not need to be defended to others.

> > TA#3: My thinking does not need defending to me.

> >

> > Anyone else see some more here? This is a big one since it is

across

> > the board.

>

> Maybe:

> TA> Other people need to defend their stories of ...if they do.

> TA> Other people need to defend my story of ..if they do.

> TA> I'm defensive when I defend myself from the stories I tell.

> TA> I don't have a story about .

> TA> It's OK to defend ...if that's what I do.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Margaret:

Sounds like you have uncovered my " old time religion " of " I have to

be right " or " I would rather be right than happy! " Beautiful, thank

you very much.

You are welcome for the isms.

Love, Steve D.

> > > > > > #5 Speaking in the Present Tense

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Become mindful of how often your conversations focus on

the

> > past

> > > > or

> > > > > future.

> > > > > > Be aware of the verbs you use: was, did, will, are going

> to,

> > > etc.

> > > > To

> > > > > speak of

> > > > > > the past in the present is to reawaken and recreate it

> fully

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > present,

> > > > > > if only in our minds, and then we are lost to what is

> present

> > > for

> > > > us

> > > > > now. To

> > > > > > speak of the future is to create and live with a fantasy.

> If

> > you

> > > > > want to

> > > > > > experience fear, think of the future. If you want to

> > experience

> > > > > shame and

> > > > > > guilt, think of the past.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From: Byron ; compiled by Lynn Hendrix.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this messa

[Guest guest]

Carol

You wrote " This assumes that the past was all bad. "

I didn't read this like this at all! Just that it brings to our notice what

happens when we aren't present - I don't think it means that if you think of the

future you will always find fear or if you think of the past you will always

find stress. but that if you are experiencing these things in the present they

usually come from the past or the future.

With love

Helen

[Guest guest]

Dear Helen:

Our interpretation was exactly the same, for whatever that is worth.

Steve D.

> Carol

> You wrote " This assumes that the past was all bad. "

>

> I didn't read this like this at all! Just that it brings to our

notice what happens when we aren't present - I don't think it means

that if you think of the future you will always find fear or if you

think of the past you will always find stress. but that if you are

experiencing these things in the present they usually come from the

past or the future.

> With love

> Helen

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's one of those logic things like from high school:

Thoughts of fear are always thoughts of the future but thoughts of the future

are not always thoughts of fear...

[Guest guest]

Margaret wrote:

> My husband likes to remember the day he and I met and play it out in

> his mind a bit. I say to him " What do you want to do that for? "

> You're going into the past to try and create a good feeling to

> luxuriate in now, in the present. It's again a rejection of the

> present moment. Of course, I enjoy pointing this out to him- I get to

> be the wise one for one fleeting moment. And I'm just realizing

> that's what I do then , to take me out of the present. What's the

> difference?

This is why I've been feeling like memories aren't really ever truly *happy*.

I think them and I wish things now were like they were then. I can look back

at being on the swim team in high school and say, Damn, I was good at that

and I was in the best shape/health of my life. That's pretty happy...I loved

swimming and looking the way I did. Well, now I'm not swimming and I don't

look/feel exactly the same. So I'm comparing now to how great it was then.

Daily said something about past *happy* thoughts being cleverly disguised

ways for us to be afraid of our present place; Margaret above said they're a

rejection of the present. I'm totally in that school of thought right now.

Truly happy memories in my past? I don't think so...and I love seeing that.

It makes me so much less dependent on the past.

Doing fine right now,

*mona

[Guest guest]

Dear :

I could not help thinking what a wonderful piece of Work your

statement regarding thoughts about the future would make. You said:

" It's one of those logic things like from high school:

Thoughts of fear are always thoughts of the future but thoughts of

the future are not always thoughts of fear... "

The first thing that jumped into my mind was the thought of

saying, " Sweetheart, can you really know that that is true? " It

seems to me that my thoughts of the future exist to keep me from

being silent, peaceful and happy in the Now. My so-called " happy "

thoughts about the future are often about how I have a plan (control)

or I am comparing my concept of a future with my concept of a past.

It appears to me that past and future are merely a " smoke and

mirrors " trick to keep me from being truly present " here Now " .

Anything but Now.

Thoughts of the future that appear " happy " could be just very

cleaverly disguised " fear based " thoughts. The fear being our fear

of being fully present in the Now and finding out who we really are

without our story.

I could tell my friend to " have a nice day! " and what I have

forgotten is that that statement implies that there could be a " bad

day " and keeps me in the illusion of separation.

Oh well, it was just another story and boy do I love my stories!

Love, Steve D.

> It's one of those logic things like from high school:

>

> Thoughts of fear are always thoughts of the future but thoughts of

the future are not always thoughts of fear...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I think you are correct..Here's a simple way to say it that occurred

to me:

Thoughts of the future are always thoughts of hope and fear and

thoughts of hope and fear are always thoughts of the future...

B

[Guest guest]

These syllogisms remind me constructing truth tables in discrete math, where I

learned that all alligators are vegetables ---

All alligators are green

Vegetables are green

Therefore,

All alligators are vegetables.

Which leads me to believe that " truth " is always colored (green, maybe?)... I'm

quitting before I get in any deeper.

Sara

Steve,

I think you are correct..Here's a simple way to say it that occurred

to me:

Thoughts of the future are always thoughts of hope and fear and

thoughts of hope and fear are always thoughts of the future...

B

[Guest guest]

> > It's one of those logic things like from high school:

> >

> > Thoughts of fear are always thoughts of the future but thoughts

of

> the future are not always thoughts of fear...

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Makes a ton of sense to me Mona!

B

ps.

It really seems like it would always subtly or not so subtly be about regret

that the present doens't feel like the past did (even if it's about 2 minutes

ago)..And that would be inherently stressful...

pps.

BTW in my experience this is exactly what I am doing when I am recalling an

insight/discovery that I had in the past and am reminding myself of it or

sharing it with another person ( like my post about the insights I had in prison

for example)...And this is when it's an insight I had, not to mention recalling

an insight that someone else had that I read or heard...