Freedom

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/30/02 6:45:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,

michele.stanton@... writes:

> Do you human beings have the freedom to believe/think what they

> want? If so, why do we have thoughts that continue to make us

> suffer????

>

Hi Michele,

For me, it isnt about thinking what I want to think...it is more about

accepting that the thoughts happen and not attaching to them and making them

true. Believe me, I have tried just about everything I could to stop

thinking...and it still happens I have given up the illusion of control

there. Just observing my thoughts and noticing which ones I am particularly

attached to gives me PLENTY of things to do the work on And the more I do

the work, the more free I feel.

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

Michele:

A1. I don't know

A2. practice

steve

Freedom

Do you human beings have the freedom to believe/think what they

want? If so, why do we have thoughts that continue to make us

suffer????

Michele

[Guest guest]

Please let me know how I can unsubscribe myself from this on-line group

discussion network...Thanks.

Freedom

Do you human beings have the freedom to believe/think what they

want? If so, why do we have thoughts that continue to make us

suffer????

Michele

[Guest guest]

Michele,

I believe that we do have the freedom, and more importantly, the

ability to think what we want to. Most people, including myself, do

not want to acknowledge the true extent of this ability. I am

aware of it, but I am also afraid to admit it. This is exhibited

by my willingness to forget and lapse back into helpless

ingnorance.

It is that same powerful ability and that equally powerfull

ignorance that enables me to continue to think thoughts which cause

me to suffer. This goes on until I just get tired of it and stop

doing it, and then all is well.

Good luck.

Joe

> Do you human beings have the freedom to believe/think what they

> want? If so, why do we have thoughts that continue to make us

> suffer????

>

> Michele

[Guest guest]

I have had times when I had the " aha " , I could choose to ignore it and

go on thinking the same way I have been feeling, justified, feeling

righteous and even " powerful " . I chose not to continue so I do believe

that I have a choice.

When I choose to go into that unknown place if only for a second, when

my feet do not feel so balanced, where everything I have believed is not

true for me, I can easily go either way. So why do I go forward? Well

as you said why do people continue to hurt themselves with

their own thoughts? Why not? I have done it for so long with the same

old thoughts might as well see if there is another, LOL..

The cool thing is that this " ouch " actually frees me from replaying self

abusive tapes. So YES! I think with inquiry we can change our

thinking. We do not ever have to, we do not ever have to forget that we

once felt that " old " way, we can even bring it up again should something

trigger us, or we may not.but yes, we are the master of our lives, who

is if you are not? I do not think I am a puppet acting on some other's

control. That would be a very scary world. I do not have that as part

of my thinking.

When I realized that it was my thinking, made by me, that caused me

pain, I wanted to change it. So I had to ask myself is this REALLY what

you believe? What are the truths behind this? Why in the Hell would

you continue to believe this way. These are my " versions " of the 4

questions! LOL It was scary! It was that place where I had feet on

uneven ground. It was that place just before I dumped the old crap.

I liken it to giving birth. When I think oh damn if this gets any worse

I am going to die..that is when it is done! I have had 4 kids, and I

had the last 3 at home. Each time I would feel the same way. " Oh this

is nuts! I am not sure I can do this " . Just when I get there, it is

done! So with really inquiring " why " I do what I do, think what I do, I

sometimes get to that place where I think, no...no..I need this thought.

I go deeper. It is scary. Then I see it. Everyone in the world may

see it differently, or not, but it doesn't matter to me because at that

moment, I am finding the real me, the me for this time in my life, until

I decide to think thoughts that I do not want to think again.

April

[Guest guest]

April wrote:

> I do not think I am a puppet acting on some other's

> control. That would be a very scary world. I do not have that as part

> of my thinking

There's a scene in the movie American Beauty...where the young guy has

captured on video a plastic grocery bag dancing in the wind. He plays the

clip for his girlfriend, if I remember correctly, to show her the most

beautiful thing he's ever seen. The bag experiences the highs and lows of its

existence as it gets swooped up and comes crashing down towards the cement,

twirling around with the leaves and then being lifted back into midair to

play for a little while...until it goes somewhere else. It can't stop itself

from going to those places. It's like total surrender to what is.

I'm reminded of that image as I feel myself become looser and freer with each

pattern of thinking that gets undone with my work. The more undone I become,

the less control I have (or want) over anything, especially my thinking. The

less controlled I feel, too. With some things I find myself not even thinking

at all...and just becoming the movement; the being.

Am I a puppet? Yes, I've been being puppeteered by all of the beliefs

(strings) that I've put into my basket along the way. They've been dictating

how I behave, what I do, who I engage with, why I do what I do...and I've

been doing the best I could with what I had.

Do I want to stay a puppet? Yes, please...with no strings attached! I want to

be led by the wind, led by what is...I want to dance with life as I

experience it fully...fearlessly...and fluidly. With my undone thinking, I'm

floating...and whichever direction I go is my favorite! I'm not the doer.

I'm being done and undone.

Losing my strings that are keeping me attached,

*mona

[Guest guest]

Mona,

I can follow you, I even remember a movie with the plastic blowing in

the wind. I see it differently. I see that the wind blows, and the

plastic is fine with it. But I also see that how the plastic enjoys or

not enjoys is up to the plastic. I can take a ride on the roller

coaster of life but I am not just on for the ride.been there done that.

I can be doing my taxes if need be while I go up and down! It is all up

to me.

I can follow your reasoning of wanting to give in to the control you

thought you have had all these years. I have been there. The

delightful feeling for me is knowing that I am not on a whim of air. I

am just where I want to be. I am very much a part of me. There is a

great release knowing that I do not have to control.that is terrific.

Yet knowing that I belong to me, I own me, I can change me, is very

empowering. It is everything that " is " for me. I no longer fly on some

whim of air. The air could have been made my me! I no longer have to

ride my hurricanes if you may. It is done. I am totally here inside.

Yeah, I have a lot of control. I know what is. I know what is not.

That is a fine place to be for now. I know how to find out. That too

is a great thing to know. I can " choose " to have " no control " if that

is what I want. Very cool. I live in here totally. Not just as a

spectator, I am really here.

April

[Guest guest]

Dear Mona,

Thank you for this beautiful reminder. And thank you for all your recent Work

posts. They've helped generate a lot in me, too.

Onewoman

> April wrote:

>

> > I do not think I am a puppet acting on some other's

> >control. That would be a very scary world. I do not have that as part

> >of my thinking

>

> There's a scene in the movie American Beauty...where the young guy has

> captured on video a plastic grocery bag dancing in the wind. He plays the

> clip for his girlfriend, if I remember correctly, to show her the most

> beautiful thing he's ever seen. The bag experiences the highs and lows of

> its

> existence as it gets swooped up and comes crashing down towards the cement,

>

> twirling around with the leaves and then being lifted back into midair to

> play for a little while...until it goes somewhere else. It can't stop

> itself

> from going to those places. It's like total surrender to what is.

>

> I'm reminded of that image as I feel myself become looser and freer with

> each

> pattern of thinking that gets undone with my work. The more undone I

> become,

> the less control I have (or want) over anything, especially my thinking.

> The

> less controlled I feel, too. With some things I find myself not even

> thinking

> at all...and just becoming the movement; the being.

>

> Am I a puppet? Yes, I've been being puppeteered by all of the beliefs

> (strings) that I've put into my basket along the way. They've been

> dictating

> how I behave, what I do, who I engage with, why I do what I do...and I've

> been doing the best I could with what I had.

>

> Do I want to stay a puppet? Yes, please...with no strings attached! I want

> to

> be led by the wind, led by what is...I want to dance with life as I

> experience it fully...fearlessly...and fluidly. With my undone thinking,

> I'm

> floating...and whichever direction I go is my favorite! I'm not the doer.

> I'm being done and undone.

>

> Losing my strings that are keeping me attached,

> *mona

>

[Guest guest]

April, I am so getting what you are saying here. The simplicity of

just seeing the thought rather than struggle to push it away is the

perfect road to freedom and out of confusion. It becomes an ongoing

almost automatic meditation. If I have a thought and there is an

unpleasant feeling I inquire and it's undone. The time that I spend

in the chaotic, confused state of mind seems to become shorter and

shorter. Welcoming the thought rather than resisting. The two states

of mind are easily noticed and the way to undo the confusion gets

clearer and clearer. Hallelujah.

Doug

So with really inquiring " why " I do what I do, think what I do, I

> sometimes get to that place where I think, no...no..I need this thought.

> I go deeper. It is scary. Then I see it. Everyone in the world may

> see it differently, or not, but it doesn't matter to me because at that

> moment, I am finding the real me, the me for this time in my life, until

> I decide to think thoughts that I do not want to think again.

>

>

>

> April

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Freedom is always the best present!

>

How about:

Freedom is always experienced in the present.

Right now I can't think of any instances that would make that statement

untrue. It's turning into a little logic puzzle. If I'm in the past, I'm

definitely not free. If I'm in the future, I'm not free either. So that means

that the only place to be free is when I'm fully present with myself...not

thinking abou the past or future. Hmmm... and I guess in every present

moment, I have the freedom to think about the past or the future. Yes....the

present is where my freedom is.

Love,

*mona

[Guest guest]

Is there anything else but the present of the presence?

Freedom

wrote:

> Freedom is always the best present!

>

How about:

Freedom is always experienced in the present.

Right now I can't think of any instances that would make that statement

untrue. It's turning into a little logic puzzle. If I'm in the past, I'm

definitely not free. If I'm in the future, I'm not free either. So that

means

that the only place to be free is when I'm fully present with myself...not

thinking abou the past or future. Hmmm... and I guess in every present

moment, I have the freedom to think about the past or the future. Yes....the

present is where my freedom is.

Love,

*mona