Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 In a message dated 1/7/2006 6:56:20 AM Central Standard Time, pmreid@... writes: So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a few days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just keep alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. Have you tried someting called aspercream? Not sure i spelled it right. Sort of like ben gay without the horrible smell. just an idea. glad you got to see a doc finally, hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Pam, My community has a " First call for help " line (611, I believe)--maybe yours hs this too. If not, a local counseling center would know of an alternative. Need for medical attention and inability to pay for it would be a sound reason to look for help from the community. Sierra > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to a family > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, which I > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I paid > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering if all > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and I just > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by the > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came home, called > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private pay, > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like I might > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that city > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see about > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take months > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will be a > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So maybe a > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a few > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just keep > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am trying to > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I will be > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, AND many > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its symptoms. > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to find out > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will keep you > posted what happens with all this. > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Pam have you checked with your local hospital to see if they have any type of program , that would enable you to See a doctor? Our city has a program called community care, which enables people to see a doctor through the hospital. We also have a program called health-care network, It help people with no insurance to see doctor, and pay for medicine. Ask at your doctors office, at the hospital, at the local unemployment center, or at churches, I bet there is some sort of program you are not aware of. The only reason I knew of these programs was because a close friend with no insurance had cancer, These programs are out there but believe me they are not advertised. Also most medicines can be gotten through assistance programs through the drug company, I know there is one for predisone, huniria,remicade, mobic, ultracet and many others again you need to spend time finding them. in WI snowdrift52003 <snowdrift52003@...> wrote: Pam, My community has a " First call for help " line (611, I believe)--maybe yours hs this too. If not, a local counseling center would know of an alternative. Need for medical attention and inability to pay for it would be a sound reason to look for help from the community. Sierra > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to a family > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, which I > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I paid > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering if all > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and I just > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by the > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came home, called > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private pay, > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like I might > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that city > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see about > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take months > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will be a > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So maybe a > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a few > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just keep > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am trying to > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I will be > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, AND many > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its symptoms. > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to find out > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will keep you > posted what happens with all this. > Pam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Sierra, The problem is I am an RN with a large income, so not that I absolutely can't pay for medical things, but that all my extra income goes to that only, so could spend very large amounts of money a year just for MDS and labs. And can only get so much done at once, whatever money I have available at the time. Most agencies and help groups won't even assist, since they think I can private pay for all my help. The doctor I mentioned appears to give discounts to those without insurance, but nothing was mentioned about income qualifications. I will have to ask around, but when I lived in California before, found not much available, unless a person is very low income. I am trying very hard to get something saved, so when I retire, I might have property, so I won't have to pay rent or house payments then. At this rate, that seems almost impossible. I have never been able to get anything saved (bad marriage), and since then only run into brick walls. Am completely self-sufficient for income, so have to really try to plan, if possible. I have a feeling this disorder, whatever it is, will put a stop to that. Pam > > Pam, > My community has a " First call for help " line (611, I believe)-- maybe > yours hs this too. If not, a local counseling center would know of an > alternative. Need for medical attention and inability to pay for it > would be a sound reason to look for help from the community. > > Sierra > > --- In , " almadelnina " <pmreid@h...> wrote: > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to a > family > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, which I > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I paid > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering if > all > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and I > just > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by the > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came home, > called > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private pay, > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like I > might > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that city > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see about > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take > months > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will be a > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So maybe a > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a few > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just keep > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am trying to > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I will be > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, AND > many > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its symptoms. > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to find > out > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will keep you > > posted what happens with all this. > > Pam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 , Yes, use a generic like aspercreme, but it is a little smelly when you first put it on, but works very well, to ease the discomfort. Wondering if the Naprosyn was giving me more problems or if this 4week episode is finally stopping. I quit the Naprosyn Friday night, I think, and since, have had only half as much swelling. The joints feel more painful and tighter at times. But overall, I am feeling better and better. Hope it keeps up. But will still see the Rheumy and get the labs done. All I took for inflammation and pain today was 2 aspirins, and will probably take one or two for bedtime tonight. MUCH BETTER!! > > > > In a message dated 1/7/2006 6:56:20 AM Central Standard Time, > pmreid@h... writes: > > So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a few > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just keep > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. > Have you tried someting called aspercream? Not sure i spelled it right. Sort > of like ben gay without the horrible smell. just an idea. glad you got to > see a doc finally, hugs > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I am not sure if this will help for you or not, but... my husband became disabled in 1990 and he eventually got Medicare. I went back to work and got health insurance at work. But then I became disabled 3 years ago from RA and well, then I eventually got Medicare, BUT our kids did not qualify Medicaraid becuz my soc sec income pushed us up just barely past the income eligibility guiddelines. We tried to get private health insurance for our 3 kids, BUT 2 of our kids are also disabled. They are considered " uninsurable " . Our state has a program specifically for " uninsurable " people..... ALas for us to pay the premiums for 2 kids and then private insurance for our third child, was impossible. SO we did not get this ----- (and eventually my husband got the ChampVA coverage for our kids) BUt maybe you could check into something like this for yourself in your state? http://www.chip.state.il.us/fedelgbl1.htm - In , " almadelnina " <pmreid@h...> wrote: > > Sierra, > The problem is I am an RN with a large income, so not that I > absolutely can't pay for medical things, but that all my extra income > goes to that only, so could spend very large amounts of money a year > just for MDS and labs. And can only get so much done at once, > whatever money I have available at the time. Most agencies and help > groups won't even assist, since they think I can private pay for all > my help. The doctor I mentioned appears to give discounts to those > without insurance, but nothing was mentioned about income > qualifications. I will have to ask around, but when I lived in > California before, found not much available, unless a person is very > low income. I am trying very hard to get something saved, so when I > retire, I might have property, so I won't have to pay rent or house > payments then. At this rate, that seems almost impossible. I have > never been able to get anything saved (bad marriage), and since then > only run into brick walls. Am completely self-sufficient for income, > so have to really try to plan, if possible. I have a feeling this > disorder, whatever it is, will put a stop to that. > Pam > > > > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to a > > family > > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, which > I > > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I > paid > > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering if > > all > > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and I > > just > > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by the > > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came home, > > called > > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private > pay, > > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like I > > might > > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that > city > > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see about > > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take > > months > > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will be a > > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So maybe a > > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a > few > > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just > keep > > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am trying > to > > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I will > be > > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, AND > > many > > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its symptoms. > > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to find > > out > > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will keep > you > > > posted what happens with all this. > > > Pam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Each state by federal guidelines has a state run children's health insurance program (CHIPS). This is the catch net for those that can not get regular insurance due to cost or simply do not have it offered through their employer. Here in Texas is sort of a one stop application process..if your income is above a certain amount you pay a premium based on family income. I was paying $45 a month for my two kids at one time..then it dropped to $15 a month and right now I pay $0 premium a month. The copays range from $2-5 per doc visit and $0-15 for generic meds and $5-20 for brand name. They also cover dental and eye care in most areas. If your income is low enough it will automaticly place you on mediciad...if you income goes up you get switched back to CHIP. Please check with your states medicaid office or DHS office and ask if there is a childrens health insurance program. Toni > > > > > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to a > > > family > > > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, which > > I > > > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I > > paid > > > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering if > > > all > > > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and I > > > just > > > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by the > > > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came home, > > > called > > > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private > > pay, > > > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like I > > > might > > > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that > > city > > > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see about > > > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take > > > months > > > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will be a > > > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > > > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So maybe a > > > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > > > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for a > > few > > > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > > > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and just > > keep > > > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am trying > > to > > > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I will > > be > > > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, AND > > > many > > > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its symptoms. > > > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to find > > > out > > > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will keep > > you > > > > posted what happens with all this. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 no no no. I was replying to someone else trying to help them get coverage for uninsurable situations. Yes, IL has KidCare but--we were over the income cut off after I got my soc sec.....so all we had available was private insurance becuz our income was over the KidCare cut off..and we were over the Medicaide cut off, too..... me and hubby had Medicare....and 2 of our kids had disabilities that made them be uninsurable..but since our income was too high we looked into IL Chips- which is insurance for people who are uninsurable..but it was cost prohibitive. it was going to be over %600 for our first kid, $500 for our second kid and our 3rd kid was not eligible cuz she is insurable, so we had to still also buy private pay insurance for her.and the Chips payouts for neuro illnesses was low.....we could not cover the premium for one child much less 2 cuz we are both on soc sec disability. In IL CHips is for uninsurable, and KIdCare is for kids of low income....and there are no things like Beckett waivers for handicapped kids. But my post was to try to provide help for another poster--for insurance coverage. - In , " Ms radar " <aclavern33@a...> wrote: > > Each state by federal guidelines has a state run children's health > insurance program (CHIPS). This is the catch net for those that can > not get regular insurance due to cost or simply do not have it > offered through their employer. > > Here in Texas is sort of a one stop application process..if your > income is above a certain amount you pay a premium based on family > income. I was paying $45 a month for my two kids at one time..then > it dropped to $15 a month and right now I pay $0 premium a month. > The copays range from $2-5 per doc visit and $0-15 for generic meds > and $5-20 for brand name. > > They also cover dental and eye care in most areas. > > If your income is low enough it will automaticly place you on > mediciad...if you income goes up you get switched back to CHIP. > > Please check with your states medicaid office or DHS office and ask > if there is a childrens health insurance program. > > Toni > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to > a > > > > family > > > > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, > which > > > I > > > > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I > > > paid > > > > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering > if > > > > all > > > > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and > I > > > > just > > > > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by > the > > > > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came > home, > > > > called > > > > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private > > > pay, > > > > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like > I > > > > might > > > > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that > > > city > > > > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see > about > > > > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take > > > > months > > > > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will > be a > > > > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > > > > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So > maybe a > > > > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > > > > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for > a > > > few > > > > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > > > > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and > just > > > keep > > > > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am > trying > > > to > > > > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I > will > > > be > > > > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, > AND > > > > many > > > > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its > symptoms. > > > > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to > find > > > > out > > > > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will > keep > > > you > > > > > posted what happens with all this. > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Wow dreamer, IL really sucks!!! My MIL lives there but her income was pretty low so my disable BIL got everything. I guess here in Texas the income guidelines are different. The program here is designed for people who are working but do not have insurance offered by they jobs or the employer offered insurance is too expensive. There are so may working poor and immigrant families here...so this is a great help program. The actual insurer will vary depending on which county you live in. The one my kids have is NOT the best...but in other counties they have better providers. Can you divide you household so the income would be lower so the kids could qualify? My MIL was the queen b of welfare and finding a way to get what she needed. She told me if your income is too high..just make sure you hubby has a different address and claim seperated. I don't say its right...but if you need care and that is the only way to get it..well you have to do what you have to do. Toni > > > > > > > > > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got to > > a > > > > > family > > > > > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple tests, > > which > > > > I > > > > > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't insurance. I > > > > paid > > > > > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is wondering > > if > > > > > all > > > > > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, and > > I > > > > > just > > > > > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, and by > > the > > > > > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came > > home, > > > > > called > > > > > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are private > > > > pay, > > > > > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds like > > I > > > > > might > > > > > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to that > > > > city > > > > > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see > > about > > > > > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't take > > > > > months > > > > > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc will > > be a > > > > > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, and > > > > > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So > > maybe a > > > > > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an NSAID, > > > > > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn for > > a > > > > few > > > > > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I need > > > > > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and > > just > > > > keep > > > > > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am > > trying > > > > to > > > > > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if I > > will > > > > be > > > > > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, etc, > > AND > > > > > many > > > > > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its > > symptoms. > > > > > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday to > > find > > > > > out > > > > > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. Will > > keep > > > > you > > > > > > posted what happens with all this. > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 For us personally it was resolved becuz my husband was finally eligible for ChampVA for us. for the kids. and him and I get Medicare. It is true I know several families with disabled children who move out of IL to access better programs to better help with their disabled children. When I worked in the nursing home, I found it was also true many many couples DID get divorces to help people better get help when one or both spouses were disabled. I am thankful and grateful we did not have to do so. IL does have KidCare and yes, working people can qualify for it, and low income families can get Medicaide. and uninsurable people can get CHIPs. (but it is expensive, especially if you have multiple uninsurable family members) But I was addressing another poster with the option of a program similar to our states CHIPs program. Me and hubby now have Medicare and our kids are now covered thru ChampVA. I shoulda also told the other poster to check into Patient Medication assistance programs. - In , " Ms radar " <aclavern33@a...> wrote: > > Wow dreamer, IL really sucks!!! My MIL lives there but her income > was pretty low so my disable BIL got everything. > > I guess here in Texas the income guidelines are different. The > program here is designed for people who are working but do not have > insurance offered by they jobs or the employer offered insurance is > too expensive. > > There are so may working poor and immigrant families here...so this > is a great help program. The actual insurer will vary depending on > which county you live in. The one my kids have is NOT the best...but > in other counties they have better providers. > > Can you divide you household so the income would be lower so the kids > could qualify? My MIL was the queen b of welfare and finding a way > to get what she needed. She told me if your income is too high..just > make sure you hubby has a different address and claim seperated. > > I don't say its right...but if you need care and that is the only way > to get it..well you have to do what you have to do. > > Toni > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still here, watching and reading the posts. I finally got > to > > > a > > > > > > family > > > > > > > practice MD here for my symptoms. She order multiple > tests, > > > which > > > > > I > > > > > > > will have to get done in blocks, since I haven't > insurance. I > > > > > paid > > > > > > > the initial office visit fee to only be told she is > wondering > > > if > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the swelling and joint stiffness started a long time ago, > and > > > I > > > > > > just > > > > > > > didn't realize it, that she will refer me to a rheumy, > and by > > > the > > > > > > > way, do I think my thyroid function is stable. So I came > > > home, > > > > > > called > > > > > > > docs, trying to find someone who will see pts who are > private > > > > > pay, > > > > > > > since she said many won't. I found someone who it sounds > like > > > I > > > > > > might > > > > > > > be able to get to see next month..maybe. He only goes to > that > > > > > city > > > > > > > once a month, and I am supposed to call next week to see > > > about > > > > > > > getting an appointment with him....but she said it won't > take > > > > > > months > > > > > > > to get in...hehe. Wonder what will happen. But that doc > will > > > be a > > > > > > > good one to see..he does Endocrine, Metabolism problems, > and > > > > > > > Rheumatology, so can see him for the multiple things. So > > > maybe a > > > > > > > light at the end of the tunnel. But no new rx for an > NSAID, > > > > > > > prednisone, nothing. So I am going to go off the Naprosyn > for > > > a > > > > > few > > > > > > > days, to see if it is in fact helping at all, and if I > need > > > > > > > something, guess I will just buy OTc Naprosyn for now and > > > just > > > > > keep > > > > > > > alternating the warm soaks, paraffin baths, and ice. I am > > > trying > > > > > to > > > > > > > get connected with some kind of insurance, but wonder if > I > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > > able to buy any, with my history of blood clotting, DM, > etc, > > > AND > > > > > > many > > > > > > > specifically ask if you have sought help for RA or its > > > symptoms. > > > > > > > Doesn't sound too promising? Will call the lab on Monday > to > > > find > > > > > > out > > > > > > > the cost of all the tests, if I can afford them, etc. > Will > > > keep > > > > > you > > > > > > > posted what happens with all this. > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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