lsd effects serotonin receptors & niacin may help stop a bad trip

[Guest guest]

just reading about lsd, it effects most of the serotonin receptors.

" LSD binds to most serotonin receptor subtypes except for 5-HT3 and 5-

HT4. However, most of these receptors are affected at too low

affinity to be activated by the brain concentration of approximate 10–

20 nM.[28] Recreational doses of LSD can affect 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, 5-

HT2C, 5-HT5A, 5-HT5B, and 5-HT6 receptors. The psychotropic effects

of LSD are attributed to its strong partial agonist effects at 5-HT2A

receptors as specific 5-HT2A agonist drugs are psychotropics and

largely 5-HT2A specific antagonists block the psychotropic activity

of LSD. "

here it explains how niacin may help stop a bad psychological

reaction.

" Some have suggested that administration of niacin (nicotinic acid,

vitamin B3) could be useful to end the LSD user's experience of

a " bad trip " .[33] The nicotinic acid in niacin as opposed to

nicotinamide, will produce a full body heat rash, due to widening of

peripheral blood vessels. The effect is somewhat akin to a poison ivy

rash. Although it is not clear to what extent the effects of LSD are

reduced by this intervention, the physical effect of an itchy skin

rash may itself tend to distract the user from feelings of anxiety.

Indeed, nicotinic acid was experienced as a stressor by all tested

persons. The rash itself is temporary and disappears within a few

hours. It is questionable if this method could be effective for

people having serious adverse psychological reactions. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

[Guest guest]

To be honest, having taken 5HTP, I don't think the serotonin

receptors are as badly impaired as some other receptors. Perhaps if

they are, they are not as difficult to deal with using herbal

medicines as other receptors.

The only serotonin agonist that is really relavent to PSSD is MDMA,

and that works through a different kind of method that nobody really

understands.

I think the main problems with PSSD are the following:

Downgraded dopamine receptors

Downgraded Nitric Oxide synthase.

I think the serotonin problem is of less importance, even though it

is the primary protein involved in ssris.

I also think the depression and anxiety sometimes caused in PSSD is

also possibly caused by muscle tension related to NO synthase, not

depression.

I also think there may be other receptors effected, eg. the M3

receptors.

Have you tried 5HTP yet? it is quite a clean feel, not heavy like

ssris or st johns wort.

[Guest guest]

yeah i tried 5htp for a while it was ok.

when you say m3 receptors do you mean melanocortin receptors?

personally after reading about how neurotransmitters are released in

the brain and finding out that 10% is lost (by destruction of mao) &

90% is recycled by the transporter that the ssri blocks the function

of.

its simple to understand that the ssri has left more brain serotonin

up for distraction by mao.

i think taking an maoi & an amino acid complex with vit b1 b2 & b6 is

the way forward. your brain needs replenishment of the chemicals that

the ssri prevented form being stored up.

>

> To be honest, having taken 5HTP, I don't think the serotonin

> receptors are as badly impaired as some other receptors. Perhaps if

> they are, they are not as difficult to deal with using herbal

> medicines as other receptors.

>

> The only serotonin agonist that is really relavent to PSSD is MDMA,

> and that works through a different kind of method that nobody

really

> understands.

>

> I think the main problems with PSSD are the following:

>

> Downgraded dopamine receptors

>

> Downgraded Nitric Oxide synthase.

>

> I think the serotonin problem is of less importance, even though it

> is the primary protein involved in ssris.

>

> I also think the depression and anxiety sometimes caused in PSSD is

> also possibly caused by muscle tension related to NO synthase, not

> depression.

>

> I also think there may be other receptors effected, eg. the M3

> receptors.

>

> Have you tried 5HTP yet? it is quite a clean feel, not heavy like

> ssris or st johns wort.

>

[Guest guest]

I've been taking niacin for a two days now. despite the skin rash, it

actually has a potent effect in relieving anxiety and depression.

I also know that depression can be caused by a vitamin deficiency.

So the skin rash is not just a distraction effect. It actually has a

therapeutic effect in the brain. Who ever wrote that wiki article

didn't do very much research, or they just copy & pasted some research

article from a person with very little scientific credibility.

Although it is not clear to what extent the effects of LSD are

> reduced by this intervention, the physical effect of an itchy skin

> rash may itself tend to distract the user from feelings of anxiety.

> Indeed, nicotinic acid was experienced as a stressor by all tested

> persons. The rash itself is temporary and disappears within a few

> hours. It is questionable if this method could be effective for

> people having serious adverse psychological reactions. "

>

>

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

>

[Guest guest]

ive just started niacin also, and it does lift the mood but it seems

to have accelerated the numbness feeling.

i dont get much of a flush its like really gradual, i crushed todays

tablet in to powder and it had the same effects.

sauna does relax you though.

>

> I've been taking niacin for a two days now. despite the skin rash,

it

> actually has a potent effect in relieving anxiety and depression.

> I also know that depression can be caused by a vitamin deficiency.

> So the skin rash is not just a distraction effect. It actually has a

> therapeutic effect in the brain. Who ever wrote that wiki article

> didn't do very much research, or they just copy & pasted some research

> article from a person with very little scientific credibility.

>

>

> Although it is not clear to what extent the effects of LSD are

> > reduced by this intervention, the physical effect of an itchy

skin

> > rash may itself tend to distract the user from feelings of

anxiety.

> > Indeed, nicotinic acid was experienced as a stressor by all

tested

> > persons. The rash itself is temporary and disappears within a few

> > hours. It is questionable if this method could be effective for

> > people having serious adverse psychological reactions. "

> >

> >

> >

> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm beggining to think that Nitroc Oxide is more of a problem than

people realise for PSSD. A lot of people take things like cialis, but

may not realise that SSRI's directly affect Nitric Oxide.

I found an artice which shows that SSRI's do the opposite of viagra,

they downgrade Nitric Oxide synthase.

Therefore, you should make sure something like cialis is a part of

your medication.

If you are taking the herbal stuff, I would reccomend going on the

running machine at the gym right after taking it, because that has

been proven to directly increase Nitric Oxide Synthase.

Yeah, the problem with pssd is that it is multilateral. I think there

are probably big problems with about 5 different systems. The ones

which directly affect sex are probably NO, DA, and neuroadrenaline I

think. Serotonin is also improtant because it eases stress and helps

you to concentrate and relax.

I am having a lot of success on bupropion, and if I mix it with

somehting like levitra, that does the trick.

[Guest guest]

i agree with you its not just one thing!!!! no magic bullet.

i was barking up the tree you were a few months ago, there is a

relationship between the serotonin transporter and nitric oxide

synthase.

can you put a link up for the article that shows ssris do the

opposite of viagra?

i think its only surtain types of ssri and not all, could be wrong

though but would like to know for sure and which ones do and which

ones dont...

>

> I'm beggining to think that Nitroc Oxide is more of a problem than

> people realise for PSSD. A lot of people take things like cialis,

but

> may not realise that SSRI's directly affect Nitric Oxide.

>

> I found an artice which shows that SSRI's do the opposite of

viagra,

> they downgrade Nitric Oxide synthase.

>

> Therefore, you should make sure something like cialis is a part of

> your medication.

>

> If you are taking the herbal stuff, I would reccomend going on the

> running machine at the gym right after taking it, because that has

> been proven to directly increase Nitric Oxide Synthase.

>

> Yeah, the problem with pssd is that it is multilateral. I think

there

> are probably big problems with about 5 different systems. The ones

> which directly affect sex are probably NO, DA, and neuroadrenaline

I

> think. Serotonin is also improtant because it eases stress and

helps

> you to concentrate and relax.

>

> I am having a lot of success on bupropion, and if I mix it with

> somehting like levitra, that does the trick.

>

[Guest guest]

http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/3/268

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?

Aktion=ShowPDF & ProduktNr=224082 & Ausgabe=229181 & ArtikelNr=70582

[Guest guest]

that last link you have to use a credit card for, if you have access

to it can you select copy and past the relevant info into a here?

i think you will find this interesting.

" 5-HT uptake induces NO production from nNOS physically linked to

SERT, through a calmodulin (CaM)-dependent mechanism. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?

artid=1876516 & rendertype=figure & id=F1

what do ssri's do? oh they inhibit 5ht uptake by physical link to

SERT.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1876516

" NO is made by NO synthase enzymes, the dominant isoform in the brain

being the neuronal type (or nNOS), which is activated to synthesize

NO from l-arginine by the binding of Ca2+/calmodulin. "

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1876516

Ca2+/calmodulin is what we need to learn more about!

this bits interesting " NO is made by NO synthase enzymes " note the

word enzymes, i know from my research into gilberts syndrome that

fluorine is a potent enzyme inhibitor! and just happens to be what

the ssri is partly made from.

and just to quote this again from the quote above, " 5-HT uptake

induces NO production from nNOS physically linked to SERT "

the ssri physically binds to SERT and the ssri with fluorine attached

to it a potent enzyme inhibitor.

if you ask me the major cause of pssd is at least partly down to this.

we need to find something to induce this Ca2+/calmodulin.

here's another link about 5ht and NNOS it look like they are linked

and modulate each other.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0610964104v1?ck=nck

just thinking here but are there drugs that increase uptake

serotonin, i think there are?

maybe an maoi tryptophan and a drug to increase up take of serotonin

would stimulate no? " 5-HT uptake induces NO production from nNOS

physically linked to SERT " wot you recon?

>

> http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/3/268

>

> http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?

> Aktion=ShowPDF & ProduktNr=224082 & Ausgabe=229181 & ArtikelNr=70582

>

[Guest guest]

Yes you are right there is such a drug. The brand name is stablon I

think. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer (ie. it does the exact

opposite of ssris.) Do you think this would help to produce No

synthase?

[Guest guest]

Very good article by people who actually know what they're talking

about, about the serotonin reuptake enhancer:

http://www.tianeptine.com/

A thread on stablon, showing the effects that several people experiences

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050322/msgs/475299.html

A list of side effects that may be caused by stablon

http://life-extension-drugs.com/stablon.html

By the way Nero, I have read that you definetely should not mix this

with an MAOI. It would probably be better to take it and then go to the

gym.

[Guest guest]

wow that was a stab in the dark, i was sure i read about a drug that

did this a long time ago.

yes it must be this drug there's some information on it in the link

below.

" Tianeptine (Stablon) appears to be as effective as fluoxetine,

sertraline, amitriptyline, clomipramine and mianserin and more

effective than maprotiline in improving associated anxiety in

patients with depressive disorders. Depression and anxiety symptoms

in alcohol dependant patients also respond well to tianeptine "

http://www.depression-guide.com/stablon.htm

note that it says its as effective as all the other antidepressants,

so this is evidence that loads of serotonin outside the neurons isnt

any better than loads inside the neurons, this keeps things inside

the neurons or actually fills them up.

psychiatry is fucking stupid, it seems to me you need as much out as

in! quite probably a happy medium of stored and released serotonin is

whats needed, its a cycle. the ssris have disrupted that cycle.

that research does say its uptake of serotonin that stimulates nitric

oxide so yeah i suppose it would.

i dont think anyone has tried this before for pssd.

>

> Yes you are right there is such a drug. The brand name is stablon I

> think. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer (ie. it does the exact

> opposite of ssris.) Do you think this would help to produce No

> synthase?

>

[Guest guest]

you know what though there's 3 different kinds of nitric oxide, one

of them is neuronal another is Endothelial.

i think the ssris have also inhibited this endothelial nitric oxide,

when you get an erection the build up of blood pressure releases more

Endothelial nitric oxide for the cells in the penis.

i think the ssri is so small that it can probably invade these cells

preventing this kind of nitric oxide.(if your taking these things and

its in your blood when you have got a really hard erection im sure it

could get inside the cells that releace the endothelial cells)

i really think pssd is the inhibition or disruption of nitric oxide

on all levels involving sexual function.

if we could find something that binds to fluorine and removes it from

the body, this could help this situation.

dmsa and edta bind to minerals in the body and pull them out, if they

work on fluorine it could pull the shit out.

if i was ritch enough i would pay for a trial with people on ssris to

masturbate 5 times a day to porn for a week or two.

im sure they would all develop ed!

>

> Yes you are right there is such a drug. The brand name is stablon I

> think. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer (ie. it does the exact

> opposite of ssris.) Do you think this would help to produce No

> synthase?

>

[Guest guest]

ive been reading about this fruit that increases endothelial nitric

oxide levels in the body its called noni, apparently where this fruit

is native the people that drink it have got much more endothelial

nitric oxide in there cells.

there's a product called nitro fx, this has been developed from this

fruit and its effects on endothelial nitric oxide levels about 10

times more than the fruit.

ive been trying to order it but the fucking sight keeps redirecting

me every time i try and create an account to order it.

do a search for " noni juice nitric oxide "

http://www.nitro-fx.co.uk/andrewsleigh/catalog/nitro-fx.html

>

> Yes you are right there is such a drug. The brand name is stablon I

> think. It is a serotonin reuptake enhancer (ie. it does the exact

> opposite of ssris.) Do you think this would help to produce No

> synthase?

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying at this point. You

think if we can remove florine from the body that will improve PSSD?

I'm thinking the LONG TERM Nitric Oxide problem is not the same problem

as the INITIAL problem. What do you think?

[Guest guest]

I will definetely look into it. I've often thought that the PSSD group

could probably work with companies that make those " herbal treatments "

to make much better ones. Most of the sites just use really generic

stuff (zinc, magnesium, wheat germ etc). I think the PSSD group could

probably help them to develop something better, and that would also

help us because we could get hold these things more easily.

And do have alook at this stuff I've been looking into on lowering

cortisol levels and then running on a treadmill. I think I am onto

something interesting.

[Guest guest]

Hey I've been looking for noni juice. I can fdind it, but it sells for

about £10 a bottle. They also sell moisturising creams with noni in it

(which may be very usefull). I'm trying to find a cheap deal on it.

[Guest guest]

Oh hey again. I've been looking around. I think this stuff may be

usefull:

http://www.tahiti-iti.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

Screen=PROD & Store_Code=TI & Product_Code=CNON & Category_Code=Tamanu%

2FMonoi+Products

Unlike the juice, surely the noni cream will go straight into the

correct cells and heal the skin?

You are definetely correct, scholars have suggested that endothelial

nitric oxide may be a usefull treatment.

And here is some fucking strong stuff that is used by athletes!

http://www.nitro-fx.co.uk/catalogue/nitro-fx.html

Some of my links don't seem to work too well, so here's another link

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11107775/Nitro_Fx_Noni_Juice.html

This one contains a few different noli formulas. I'm not sure whether

to get the really strong one, noli fx, or the moisturiser as you

could rub it straight in? But then again the strong fomula might be

worth a try first because you can test if it actually works.

[Guest guest]

yes if we could take somthing that binds to fluorine it would pull it

out of our body's, where ever its built up.(dmsa & edta are the main

ch elating compounds, they bind to minerals in the body and pull them

out. if fluorine is a mineral then its likely they will bind to it.)

i think it could be in the prostate and probably all hormone

producing glands including the pituitary.

i think pssd is the reduction of serotonin from neurons and possibly

a reduction in some dopamine neurons. this creates the psychological

side and its the disruption of neural nitric oxide in the brain and

possibly other forms of no synthesis.

>

> I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying at this point. You

> think if we can remove florine from the body that will improve PSSD?

>

> I'm thinking the LONG TERM Nitric Oxide problem is not the same

problem

> as the INITIAL problem. What do you think?

>

[Guest guest]

nitro fx is made form noni its much stronger than noni juice.

>

> Hey I've been looking for noni juice. I can fdind it, but it sells

for

> about £10 a bottle. They also sell moisturising creams with noni in

it

> (which may be very usefull). I'm trying to find a cheap deal on it.

>

[Guest guest]

yeah thats its that nitro fx that ive been trying to buy from the uk

sight.

im not to sure about that cream though, i wouldn't put it on your

glans.

>

>

> Oh hey again. I've been looking around. I think this stuff may be

> usefull:

>

> http://www.tahiti-iti.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

> Screen=PROD & Store_Code=TI & Product_Code=CNON & Category_Code=Tamanu%

> 2FMonoi+Products

>

> Unlike the juice, surely the noni cream will go straight into the

> correct cells and heal the skin?

>

> You are definetely correct, scholars have suggested that

endothelial

> nitric oxide may be a usefull treatment.

>

>

> And here is some fucking strong stuff that is used by athletes!

>

> http://www.nitro-fx.co.uk/catalogue/nitro-fx.html

>

> Some of my links don't seem to work too well, so here's another link

>

> http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11107775/Nitro_Fx_Noni_Juice.html

>

> This one contains a few different noli formulas. I'm not sure

whether

> to get the really strong one, noli fx, or the moisturiser as you

> could rub it straight in? But then again the strong fomula might be

> worth a try first because you can test if it actually works.

>

[Guest guest]

www.iherb.com

>

> Hey I've been looking for noni juice. I can fdind it, but it sells for

> about £10 a bottle. They also sell moisturising creams with noni in it

> (which may be very usefull). I'm trying to find a cheap deal on it.

>