Re: This Isn't Fair

[Guest guest]

Saw palmetto appears to have multiple mechanisms of action, and is a

much stronger herb than I thought:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8922564?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9759701?dopt=Abstract

No wonder it causes problems. Should be taken of the market asap.

I still believe you can recover from your condition if you get the

right treatment, since it seems to be primarily an endocrine

problem. PSSD is typically more complex.

Vornan

-- In SSRIsex , " wantmylifeback85 "

wrote:

>

> Mark,

>

> Thank you for the kind words. I'm trying to obtain my MBA part-

time

> at night while working during the day, and juggling a personal

> relationship that's been recently reignited... so you could imagine

> how stressful this has been. I've NEVER reached a level of

> depression like this before and I can't stand it. I had the world

in

> my hand and I feel like I blew it in just nine days.

>

> No, a nutritionist did not consult my physician - are you asking

> prior to or after the Saw Palmetto use? It was dumb on my part but

I

> did not know I was taking such a high dosage. You would think

> something dangerous such as SP wouldn't be sold OTC but it's an

> herbal supplement and not FDA regulated. At any rate, I found a

> urologist in NYC that seems to be very thorough and hopefully he

can

> help me as well since the one I saw in my area was of no help.

>

> Thanks again for asking your colleagues about this issue. It's

like

> my entire body/system is crashing and there's nothing I can do to

> stop it. It's so depressing when just a few months ago I was in

the

> best shape of my life and I feel like I'm wasting away, physically

> and mentally. I just want this chapter of my life to be over as

soon

> as possible so I can continue LIVING, because right now I feel dead

> inside.

>

[Guest guest]

Consider lowering your ambitions for the moment. I mean combining a

study with a full-time job might cause burn-out and depression.

>

> Mark,

>

> Thank you for the kind words. I'm trying to obtain my MBA part-time

> at night while working during the day, and juggling a personal

> relationship that's been recently reignited... so you could imagine

> how stressful this has been. I've NEVER reached a level of

> depression like this before and I can't stand it.

[Guest guest]

I definitely undertake such actions on a regular basis, aside from my

input to this forum. Sorry, I would rather not elaborate on the

specific organisations and persons I have contacted. And I highly

appreciate your crucial role in organizing this weblog and writing the

Wikipedia article. And I suppose you have done a lot more.

>

> Steve,

>

> Just curious - What have you done to publicize PSSD? Have you

> started a website or blog? Have you written to the FDA or other

> regulatory authorities?

>

> Vornan

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for the support - this has been a true and utter

nightmare. I'm still able to lift the same weights at the gym but

I've lost so much mass it's depressing. I don't even want to get

started on the physical changes to my face and genitals, it's just too

much to bear.

I cannot believe I did this to myself when I knew the dangers of

Propecia and though I was taking something milder, a placebo. I

cannot keep reliving that mistake, then again, I had no idea I was

taking something equivalent to 3200mg when I thought I was taking

320mg. I had no idea SP comes in a berry AND extract formula. I

think I'm developing prostatitis as there is a burning sensation in my

urethra. There's this weird spasm that's going on the right side of

my brain that I can't explain. My whole body is failing from NINE

DAYS OF SAW PALMETTO.

I've been breaking down in the bathroom at work at least once a day

and people remark how much weight I've lost. I took something for my

hair when I wasn't even really balding and it's damn near ruined me -

and I avoided Fin because of the horror stories. Anxiety is a

powerful drug and made me impulsive to buy it and use it. I'm like

one of the worst cases compared to some of the user stories on the

Finasteride forum and I didn't even use Propecia.

I nearly fully recovered from Paxil withdrawal after 6+ years of use

which was pure hell and now this happens. I don't know what I did to

deserve this. I really hope I'm not screwed for life - I had

ambitions moving to NYC, changing careers, finishing my masters,

getting married, etc. I can barely function on a daily basis because

of my stupidity. I'm trying not to break down typing this. I just

want my life and body back - this is no way to live and I don't know

how much more I can take. Again, I appreciate the support from people

here on this board. No one should have to experience this. Waking up

each morning gets harder each day.

[Guest guest]

Hi;

I just wanted to let you know that the " brain spasms " or " brain

shocks " are a documented symptom of withdrawal from some of the

SSRI's that may not show up for as much as 3 to 6 weeks after going

off of the drug. This happened to my husband. He had been off the

SSRI for slightly over a month -- and thought he was doing alright --

when the brain shocks started. He has never been able to overcome

them so has had to go back on a minute dose of Celexa to keep them

under control. He is on 5 mg (1/2 a 10mg pill) once a day. The

pharmacist told us that Paxil has an even worse reputation for this

than Celexa.

So, your problems may not be entirely attributable to the Saw

Palmetto.

Good Luck on finding the answers.

>

> Thanks again for the support - this has been a true and utter

> nightmare. I'm still able to lift the same weights at the gym but

> I've lost so much mass it's depressing. I don't even want to get

> started on the physical changes to my face and genitals, it's just

too

> much to bear.

>

> I cannot believe I did this to myself when I knew the dangers of

> Propecia and though I was taking something milder, a placebo. I

> cannot keep reliving that mistake, then again, I had no idea I was

> taking something equivalent to 3200mg when I thought I was taking

> 320mg. I had no idea SP comes in a berry AND extract formula. I

> think I'm developing prostatitis as there is a burning sensation in

my

> urethra. There's this weird spasm that's going on the right side of

> my brain that I can't explain. My whole body is failing from NINE

> DAYS OF SAW PALMETTO.

>

> I've been breaking down in the bathroom at work at least once a day

> and people remark how much weight I've lost. I took something for

my

> hair when I wasn't even really balding and it's damn near ruined

me -

> and I avoided Fin because of the horror stories. Anxiety is a

> powerful drug and made me impulsive to buy it and use it. I'm like

> one of the worst cases compared to some of the user stories on the

> Finasteride forum and I didn't even use Propecia.

>

> I nearly fully recovered from Paxil withdrawal after 6+ years of use

> which was pure hell and now this happens. I don't know what I did

to

> deserve this. I really hope I'm not screwed for life - I had

> ambitions moving to NYC, changing careers, finishing my masters,

> getting married, etc. I can barely function on a daily basis

because

> of my stupidity. I'm trying not to break down typing this. I just

> want my life and body back - this is no way to live and I don't know

> how much more I can take. Again, I appreciate the support from

people

> here on this board. No one should have to experience this. Waking

up

> each morning gets harder each day.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I vividly recall the brain zaps I had when I was withdrawing from

Paxil... they eventually went away and were hands down the worst part

of the withdrawal process. Any sort of stress would trigger them.

I just can't stand the fact that I have to deal with this after my

successful withdrawal from Paxil hell. NOT EVEN A YEAR LATER AND I

HAVE THIS NEW, MUCH MORE DEPRESSING BATTLE! Like my subject says, it's

just not fair. I'm in the prime of my life and my manhood gets robbed

from me from a simple mistake WHILE trying to play it safe.

I had NO problems with my penis/erections prior to this and I was well-

endowed. Now it's a shrivelled, numb mess that looks nearly dead. I

think I might have Peyronie's now as there is a curve when it is erect

(when using Viagra). WTF. I'm doing all I can but this is ruining my

life when I should be out enjoying it. I shouldn't be impotent at 26

and afraid to face the world.

[Guest guest]

Hey Mark,

What I believe is happening is that five-alpha reductase, the enzyme

responsible for converting Testosterone into DHT, has been inactivated

and/or not regenerating. Other Propecia/Finasteride users are

experiencing the same problem. Fin inhibits Type 2 5AR. I'm more

concerned because, unlike Fin, Saw Palmetto inhibits Type 1 AND Type 2

5AR. Type 1 is found in the brain! It's been a little over 2 months

with little to no improvement and cannot believe 9 days would cause

such destructive damage. I'm willing to put myself up as a human

trial for any sort of treatment because I am that desperate. To see

my body falling apart physically and mentally in just a matter of

weeks has been the most depressing episode I've ever encountered.

The physical changes to my penis is probably the most disheartening

symptom, alongside the lack of libido and near-impotence. The

numbness, tissue changes, and slight rotation are too much to bear. I

think I'm developing Peyronie's and I'm just 26 for crying out loud.

This has been a complete nightmare and before this I was a normal guy

with a normal life. Now it's been robbed from me by a $5 herbal

supplement. I once again appreciate the support and hopefully I can

beat this thing.

[Guest guest]

I've taken all your info/data to a nutritionist, urologist, and endocrinologist for their review and input. As soon as collect their thoughts, I'll share them with you. You WILL beat this thing---and understand---no man wants penile tissue changes and shrinkage. Just remember that once this gets sorted out, even if your penis doesn't go back to a normal size/shape---it still doesn't matter squat in a relationship as its true what the women say---it's what's in the heart and how you express your love through sex, and not the size or shape of the thing that really matters. Saying that, I wouldn't mind a few inches myself. (LOL)---- I know it's not funny---but keeping this part of it in perspective is important. I surmise you're a man with a huge capacity to give and receive love---and not only genital stimulation, but the whole package. Hang in there---I promise to get back to

you.wantmylifeback85 wrote: Hey Mark,What I believe is happening is that five-alpha reductase, the enzymeresponsible for converting Testosterone into DHT, has been inactivatedand/or not regenerating. Other Propecia/Finasteride users areexperiencing the same problem. Fin inhibits Type 2 5AR. I'm moreconcerned because, unlike Fin, Saw Palmetto inhibits Type 1 AND Type 25AR. Type 1 is found in the brain! It's been a little over 2 monthswith little to no improvement and

cannot believe 9 days would causesuch destructive damage. I'm willing to put myself up as a humantrial for any sort of treatment because I am that desperate. To seemy body falling apart physically and mentally in just a matter ofweeks has been the most depressing episode I've ever encountered.The physical changes to my penis is probably the most dishearteningsymptom, alongside the lack of libido and near-impotence. Thenumbness, tissue changes, and slight rotation are too much to bear. Ithink I'm developing Peyronie's and I'm just 26 for crying out loud. This has been a complete nightmare and before this I was a normal guywith a normal life. Now it's been robbed from me by a $5 herbalsupplement. I once again appreciate the support and hopefully I canbeat this thing.

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your assistance Mark. You don't know how much

it means to me for someone I've never even met to help out someone

like me in a time of need. I will be seeing an andrologist this

Wednesday who has treated similar cases so we'll see what he says.

I'll also be doing a sleep study in two weeks as I haven't slept the

same since this incident, and it's not just because of anxiety. I

had a complete breakdown Friday night, the worst yet. It's so hard

living like this when just a few months ago I was normal and

healthy. It's like I'm beyond the breaking point and just feel so

hopeless.

My girl is very caring but I feel like I'm living a lie by not

telling her what I'm going through - I need her for support if

anything but I feel like I'll scare her away if I explain what's

going on and lose her for good. Prior to this, I promised to be more

intimate due to Paxil killing my libido and then life throws me a

curveball by making matters worse. We're not at the point of having

sex yet, but having to carry a Viagra in my pocket just in case

pisses me off.

There's a constant pain in my groin that's very bothersome -

especially when I'm sitting down. Not sure if it's prostatitis,

Epididymitis, testicular torsion, varicocele, etc. But, as you said,

I'm doing all I can by seeing the top doctors who are aware of this

problem. I just want to return to some sort of normalcy as I'm an

impatient person to begin with, but again, the timing was just

catastrophic and it kills me inside when I'm out on a date with my

girl. We went to see the movie " 21 " last weekend and it reminded me

when we went to Vegas last summer and had sex in this lavish suite -

I started tearing up during the movie when they showed scenes of the

Strip because I felt like I won't be able to experience that again.

I guess I'm not as emotionally numb as I think I am, but all the

positive feelings I want to feel have been sucked out of me by this

harrowing experience.

[Guest guest]

Dear Want My Life Back, Hey, I know how it feels and I've been in your shoes before....people tend to show up and help when you need it. I write this on Tuesday evening, and tomorrow is your doctor appt, so I hope you receive this prior to this appt. so you can discuss it with him or her as well. Based on the information you'd shared in this forum, I've discussed your case with two Nutritionists and one Urologist, all whom I respect and trust. (apologies as the Endocrinologist departed on Emergency Leave & I didn't get a chance to speak with him, though he'll be back in 2 weeks) They reviewed your history, the meds you'd taken, the symptoms you'd identified, and the current state you find your body, mind, and spirit in. Both the Nutritionist and Urologist were shocked to hear the amount of SP

you'd taken over the 9 day period, and definitely concur that you most likely "overdosed" on SP and, as a result, are continuing to experience side effects caused by such large doses of this "herb". The public assumes, even under FDA approved/acceptable doses, that herbal remedies are, for the most part, safe. Fact is, most are. However, side effects and/or full blown allergic reactions often go unreported, leaving the public unaware of harmful herbal effects, often due to the usual short term nature of side effects experienced, or not reported due to the sheer embarrassment experienced by the patient. As each individual responds and metabolizes elements at different rates, both the Nutritionist and Urologist mentioned that you should continue to have your liver and kidney function

levels monitored, and both inquired whether you might benefit from a 1-2 day IV fluid/hydration challenge (meaning a large amount of direct venous access fluids given over a short period of time (24-48 hours) to flush the herb and any other toxins out of your tissues and into your blood stream or----in the extreme (just bouncing this idea off) consider dialysis to ensure your body is completely 100% rid of the SP that may be in your system. Your doctor may scoff at that---and our doctors would probably also---but no harm in throwing the idea out there for discussion. Again, without really seeing you and reviewing your record in detail, they were just throwing out ideas on this---but very pleased you were already scheduled to see a qualified physician on this issue, and feel confident that you're on the right track. They could not explain or understand the penis

changes, numbness, lack of pressure ejaculate, etc. that I let them read from your email, except to say that it is possible this too is from SP. The urologist thinks it highly unlikely its caused by the long-left-behind anti-depressant med. Basically, they'd like to see you either admitted to a hospital or treated on an out-patient basis, flushed completely with Intra-Venous fluids and/or undergo dialysis (in the extreme) and go from there. If not that aggressive, at the very least, continue to have your liver and kidney function tests monitored and keep yourself well hydrated---and hope that time will eventually allow SP to work itself out of your body altogether. I apologize for the inadequate recommendations here and hope your home-physician and team will have a clearer and more exact plan, but with the information you so generously provided us its the

best we can do for now. I will continue to read your posts and follow your situation with keen interest. You need more than hand-holding here---but I hope that what little we have for you to consider might be shared with those taking care of you---and they can go from there. Keep Faith---and I mean it---please don't give up or feel such despair as there are always improvements in the pipeline, and though it's an awful shock to have to endure at your young age---I sense you do have the strength to get through this---and in time, be able to help anyone else who may find themselves in the same situation in the future. Keep posting. Keep us informed. Many people in real-time and on-line care about you very much.....don't ever give up. wantmylifeback85 wrote: Thank you so much for your assistance Mark. You don't know how much it means to me for someone I've never even met to help out someone like me in a time of need. I will be seeing an andrologist this Wednesday who has treated similar cases so we'll see what he says. I'll also be doing a sleep study in two weeks as I haven't slept the same since this incident, and it's not just because of anxiety. I had a complete breakdown Friday night, the worst yet. It's so hard living like this when just a few months ago I was normal and healthy. It's like I'm

beyond the breaking point and just feel so hopeless.My girl is very caring but I feel like I'm living a lie by not telling her what I'm going through - I need her for support if anything but I feel like I'll scare her away if I explain what's going on and lose her for good. Prior to this, I promised to be more intimate due to Paxil killing my libido and then life throws me a curveball by making matters worse. We're not at the point of having sex yet, but having to carry a Viagra in my pocket just in case pisses me off.There's a constant pain in my groin that's very bothersome - especially when I'm sitting down. Not sure if it's prostatitis, Epididymitis, testicular torsion, varicocele, etc. But, as you said, I'm doing all I can by seeing the top doctors who are aware of this problem. I just want to return to some sort of normalcy as I'm an impatient person to begin with, but again, the timing was just

catastrophic and it kills me inside when I'm out on a date with my girl. We went to see the movie "21" last weekend and it reminded me when we went to Vegas last summer and had sex in this lavish suite - I started tearing up during the movie when they showed scenes of the Strip because I felt like I won't be able to experience that again. I guess I'm not as emotionally numb as I think I am, but all the positive feelings I want to feel have been sucked out of me by this harrowing experience.

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Mark,

You have gone above and beyond for a total stranger who was/is in desperate need

of

some help. And you delivered.

Actions like yours give me faith in humanity. I'm somewhat awed.

God bless you.

- Joe

> Thank you so much for your assistance Mark. You don't know how much

> it means to me for someone I've never even met to help out someone

> like me in a time of need. I will be seeing an andrologist this

> Wednesday who has treated similar cases so we'll see what he says.

> I'll also be doing a sleep study in two weeks as I haven't slept the

> same since this incident, and it's not just because of anxiety. I

> had a complete breakdown Friday night, the worst yet. It's so hard

> living like this when just a few months ago I was normal and

> healthy. It's like I'm beyond the breaking point and just feel so

> hopeless.

>

> My girl is very caring but I feel like I'm living a lie by not

> telling her what I'm going through - I need her for support if

> anything but I feel like I'll scare her away if I explain what's

> going on and lose her for good. Prior to this, I promised to be more

> intimate due to Paxil killing my libido and then life throws me a

> curveball by making matters worse. We're not at the point of having

> sex yet, but having to carry a Viagra in my pocket just in case

> pisses me off.

>

> There's a constant pain in my groin that's very bothersome -

> especially when I'm sitting down. Not sure if it's prostatitis,

> Epididymitis, testicular torsion, varicocele, etc. But, as you said,

> I'm doing all I can by seeing the top doctors who are aware of this

> problem. I just want to return to some sort of normalcy as I'm an

> impatient person to begin with, but again, the timing was just

> catastrophic and it kills me inside when I'm out on a date with my

> girl. We went to see the movie " 21 " last weekend and it reminded me

> when we went to Vegas last summer and had sex in this lavish suite -

> I started tearing up during the movie when they showed scenes of the

> Strip because I felt like I won't be able to experience that again.

> I guess I'm not as emotionally numb as I think I am, but all the

> positive feelings I want to feel have been sucked out of me by this

> harrowing experience.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access,

No Cost.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joe---nah---I haven't done much at all. I wish I could have had more specific information to help him, but this is all I have at the moment. You see, I'm a Registered Nurse with Clinical experience in ICU, CCU and EMS but know very little about the issues I'm learning here. For the past 22 years I've been in Hospital Administration (The Boss!) lol-----In my youth I used to be a "real" nurse that could put in IV's , Catheters, run a Code Blue and do stuff you see on TV. Nowadays, I can spin an excel spreadsheet pretty fast and am real good at delegating work to others (*translation: grrrrrrrr) and pour a mean cup of coffee---looking professional and all....for about 20 seconds---then the real me comes through. I think so many ppl here in this forum are tremendously helpful toward each other---I just decided to try to reach

out to Want My Life Back---his writing style, honesty, and hopeless makes me want to stay in touch with him---I want him to be okay in time. He sounds like a really great guy. Anyway, thanks for the kind words---I'm only a new member to this forum and am learning more from you all than I am contributing here. Mark Joe wrote: Mark,You have gone above and beyond for a total stranger who was/is in desperate need of some

help. And you delivered. Actions like yours give me faith in humanity. I'm somewhat awed. God bless you.- Joe> Thank you so much for your assistance Mark. You don't know how much

> it means to me for someone I've never even met to help out someone > like me in a time of need. I will be seeing an andrologist this > Wednesday who has treated similar cases so we'll see what he says. > I'll also be doing a sleep study in two weeks as I haven't slept the > same since this incident, and it's not just because of anxiety. I > had a complete breakdown Friday night, the worst yet. It's so hard > living like this when just a few months ago I was normal and > healthy. It's like I'm beyond the breaking point and just feel so > hopeless.> > My girl is very caring but I feel like I'm living a lie by not > telling her what I'm going through - I need her for support if > anything but I feel like I'll scare her away if I explain what's > going on and lose her for good. Prior to this, I promised to be more > intimate due to Paxil killing my libido and then life

throws me a > curveball by making matters worse. We're not at the point of having > sex yet, but having to carry a Viagra in my pocket just in case > pisses me off.> > There's a constant pain in my groin that's very bothersome - > especially when I'm sitting down. Not sure if it's prostatitis, > Epididymitis, testicular torsion, varicocele, etc. But, as you said, > I'm doing all I can by seeing the top doctors who are aware of this > problem. I just want to return to some sort of normalcy as I'm an > impatient person to begin with, but again, the timing was just > catastrophic and it kills me inside when I'm out on a date with my > girl. We went to see the movie "21" last weekend and it reminded me > when we went to Vegas last summer and had sex in this lavish suite - > I started tearing up during the movie when they showed scenes of the > Strip because I felt like I

won't be able to experience that again. > I guess I'm not as emotionally numb as I think I am, but all the > positive feelings I want to feel have been sucked out of me by this > harrowing experience.> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.> __________________________________________________