Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 First of all, you give no indication as to how feverfew worked, what exactly it did, except that it " made you feel horny. " There are many herbs that can do the same thing. It is unlikely to be any solice for men suffering from erectile dysfunction. Perhaps you are just not very good at explaining yourself? As for the comment about PSSD nto necessarily being caused by serotonin. You have to bear in mind that ssris act on many different chemicals eg. cortisol, oxytocin, testosterone, dopamine, gaba, and some more complex problems are also evident. You don't seem to understand that the primary problem may not be caused by serotonin at all. The Ely Lily comment which you made only highlights how stupid you are. Are you autistic? You seem to say it works " well. " Overall, the point which I am trying to make, is that it is not a cure. For men with erection problems it may be no better than an MAO inhibitor. You may think that this is insignificant, but it does prove that your serotonin theory was wrong in the first place. I have said over and over again that I do not suggest people to take MDMA over and over again. Are you just to stupid to understand this? My main point is that MDMA normalizes the muscles in the penis, the testicles and the prostate. When you take it you can see that there is something else that we have missed out on. Your theory is increadibly poor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on 5HT1A/B > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our problem and > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > internet, > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors -among others- > > > > > > and > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > reasonably > > > > ask > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists are > > found > > > > in a > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or antipsychotic, > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine antagonist > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from SSRI > > > > induced > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or Chlorpromazine as > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this problem, > > but > > > > it > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and very > > slight > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine HCL. > > > > According > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B Antagonist, but > > > > there > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL on the > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a 5HT1A/B > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > passing > > > > along > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt some > > > > improvement > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely from the > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > possibility, > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter as > > long > > > > term > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to amphetamine in > > that > > > > it > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > increase in > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of heightened > > libido > > > > as > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may ultimately > > > > further > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors causing > > even > > > > less > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 You both have some interesting ideas, but I don't understand why you think Copiusflo's ideas about receptors are " incredibly poor " . Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and that should be a part of any scientific dialogue, but why use such harsh language? In any case, his ideas seem perfectly valid to me. Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > 5HT1A/B > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our problem > and > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > internet, > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors -among > others- > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > reasonably > > > > > ask > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists are > > > found > > > > > in a > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or antipsychotic, > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > antagonist > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from > SSRI > > > > > induced > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or Chlorpromazine > as > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > problem, > > > but > > > > > it > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and very > > > slight > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > HCL. > > > > > According > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B Antagonist, > but > > > > > there > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL on > the > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > > passing > > > > > along > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt some > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > from the > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter > as > > > long > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to amphetamine > in > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of heightened > > > libido > > > > > as > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > ultimately > > > > > further > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > causing > > > even > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 It is pretty easy to block serotonin receptors. Feverfew may be the best drug to use because it will not increase serotonin levels (by slectively blocking 5ht1a). It also only upregulates 5ht2C, according to most research. The harsh language that I have used is no worse than the insults used against me eg I am working for a drugs company. I will leave no more comments on this topic or future topics with sssris as this is clearly getting too heated. However, I will simply say that I have always understood the relationship between 5ht1a and the HPA axis etc, but I would be wary of any theory that is so simple. Blocking 5ht has not, and probably will not prove any more successfull than most of the other things that have been suggested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > problem > > and > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > internet, > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - among > > others- > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > reasonably > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > are > > > > found > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > antagonist > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from > > SSRI > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > Chlorpromazine > > as > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > problem, > > > > but > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > very > > > > slight > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > HCL. > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > Antagonist, > > but > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > on > > the > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > > > passing > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > some > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter > > as > > > > long > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > amphetamine > > in > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > heightened > > > > libido > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > ultimately > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > causing > > > > even > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 As this is a sort of serarate topic I will answer the question. I think migranes can be caused by high serotonin and high nitric oxide. I assume there is no uniform " migrane " and some treatments are better for some people than for others. Feverfew is not an antagonist, it stops the synthesis of serotonin. If a 5ht1a antagonist was created, it would cause more serotonin to be released, because the 5ht1a receptors reduce the release of 5ht. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > 5HT1A/B > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our problem > and > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > internet, > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors -among > others- > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > reasonably > > > > > ask > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists are > > > found > > > > > in a > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or antipsychotic, > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > antagonist > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from > SSRI > > > > > induced > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or Chlorpromazine > as > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > problem, > > > but > > > > > it > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and very > > > slight > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > HCL. > > > > > According > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B Antagonist, > but > > > > > there > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL on > the > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > > passing > > > > > along > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt some > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > from the > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter > as > > > long > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to amphetamine > in > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of heightened > > > libido > > > > > as > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > ultimately > > > > > further > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > causing > > > even > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 -- as I recall, you started out by saying that his ideas were " completely wrong " , which doesn't seem a very constructive way to start a scientific discourse. vornan - In SSRIsex , " pssd24 " wrote: > > It is pretty easy to block serotonin receptors. Feverfew may be the > best drug to use because it will not increase serotonin levels (by > slectively blocking 5ht1a). It also only upregulates 5ht2C, according > to most research. > > The harsh language that I have used is no worse than the insults used > against me eg I am working for a drugs company. > > I will leave no more comments on this topic or future topics with > sssris as this is clearly getting too heated. However, I will simply > say that I have always understood the relationship between 5ht1a and > the HPA axis etc, but I would be wary of any theory that is so > simple. Blocking 5ht has not, and probably will not prove any more > successfull than most of the other things that have been suggested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > problem > > > and > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > among > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > > are > > > > > found > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > from > > > SSRI > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > Chlorpromazine > > > as > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such > an > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > > problem, > > > > > but > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > > very > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > > HCL. > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > Antagonist, > > > but > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > > on > > > the > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize > for > > > > > passing > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > > some > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > matter > > > as > > > > > long > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > amphetamine > > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > this > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > heightened > > > > > libido > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > ultimately > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > > causing > > > > > even > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 In a further ad hominem attack, PSSD says the following: " First of all, you give no indication as to how feverfew worked, what exactly it did, except that it " made you feel horny... " PSSD24 did not read my earlier post in which I said, " I woke up, feeling dizzy and very horny, so I had sex with my girlfriend...twice! " How much more detail does anyone need? (Think of sex like in the movies. That kind of sex) Today I am still feeling the benefits of restored libido. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > problem > > > and > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > among > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > > are > > > > > found > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > from > > > SSRI > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > Chlorpromazine > > > as > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such > an > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > > problem, > > > > > but > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > > very > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > > HCL. > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > Antagonist, > > > but > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > > on > > > the > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize > for > > > > > passing > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > > some > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > matter > > > as > > > > > long > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > amphetamine > > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > this > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > heightened > > > > > libido > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > ultimately > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > > causing > > > > > even > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 How is calling someone "stupid" and asking if they are "autistic" constructive?Subject: Re: 5HT1A /B AntagonistsTo: SSRIsex Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 4:20 PM It is pretty easy to block serotonin receptors. Feverfew may be the best drug to use because it will not increase serotonin levels (by slectively blocking 5ht1a). It also only upregulates 5ht2C, according to most research. The harsh language that I have used is no worse than the insults used against me eg I am working for a drugs company. I will leave no more comments on this topic or future topics with sssris as this is clearly getting too heated. However, I will simply say that I have always understood the relationship between 5ht1a and the HPA axis etc, but I would be wary of any theory that is so simple. Blocking 5ht has not, and probably will not prove any more successfull than most of the other things that have been suggested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > problem > > and > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > internet, > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - among > > others- > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > sensitivity/ density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > reasonably > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > are > > > > found > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > antagonist > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from > > SSRI > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > Chlorpromazine > > as > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > problem, > > > > but > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > very > > > > slight > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > HCL. > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > Antagonist, > > but > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > on > > the > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > > > passing > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > some > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter > > as > > > > long > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > amphetamine > > in > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > heightened > > > > libido > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > ultimately > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > causing > > > > even > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 hey are you still experiencing improvements from feverfew withdrawl or did it go away ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > problem > > > > and > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > among > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > > > are > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > from > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > as > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such > > an > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > > > problem, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > > > very > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > Antagonist, > > > > but > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize > > for > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > > > some > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > matter > > > > as > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > amphetamine > > > > in > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > this > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > heightened > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > > > causing > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 I am still experiencing improvements with Feverfew. It works very well for me. I don't see much downside to experimenting with this since it is an herb and only 12-15 dollars for a bottle of 30. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > on > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > problem > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > the > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > among > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > we > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > antagonists > > > > are > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > dopamine > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > from > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > such > > > an > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > this > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > and > > > > very > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > Yohimbine > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > HCL > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > apologize > > > for > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > felt > > > > some > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > entirely > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > as a > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > matter > > > > > as > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > amphetamine > > > > > in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > this > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > heightened > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > receptors > > > > > causing > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 I'm sure that Nefazodone is the one that messed me up. I was on it 3 months and then my sex drive petered out in about a week. I came off the drug and my sex drive was out of the world but my body started twitching badly and cramping up. I was on the lowest dose but my doctor told me to taper it. So I cut the tablet in half and took that for a week, and then took a 1/4, and so on until i was down to 7mg and then my sex drive went again never to return. It upsets me that if I hadn't followed my doctor's advice I might have got out in time. I couldn't have sex with my girlfriend last night as I couldn't get it up. I can normally satisfy her even if it means nothing to me. I find it quite upsetting when I try to have sex and so I would be quite happy if she dumped me. I would then just become a recluse and make music on my PC with my guitars, synths, and keyboards. I go dancing (Lydy Hop, Jive, etc) but I hardly feel any passion for girls. I noticed that when this first happened that touching a girl was about as interesting as holding a piece of plywood. I've been like it for years but my sex drive seems to be getting worse lately. With my last girlfriend I could eventually get there but not anymore. I was taking Phenibut at the weekends to de-stress and it can be a fantastic antidepressant, but I became certain it was knocking my sex drive down even more. With intense fantasy, porn movie stuff, (watching them doesn't work)I can get there everyday all by myself. But it not that great. I have some hope,though, if I go two weeks without sex it can feel quite good, almost like it used to. So there must be something left in my brain that might recover when the conditions are right. I'm new here and I've read the thread through. Can Feverfew make you more depressed? Can it permantly revive the receptors? Kavy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > > on > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > > problem > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > > the > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > > among > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > > we > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > antagonists > > > > > are > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > dopamine > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > > from > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > > such > > > > an > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > > this > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > > and > > > > > very > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > Yohimbine > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > > HCL > > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > apologize > > > > for > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > > felt > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > > entirely > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > > as a > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > > matter > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > > this > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > receptors > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 I said in my last post that if I go two weeks without sex it can feel quite good, although I still have to get myself going. I have sometimes wondered that if I went without sex until I started to get an urge, whether the increase in chemicals in my brain, or decrease, whatever it is, could revive my brain and be a cure. E.G. only have sex when I really want to over the months, or years, until I have recovered. But maybe try to feel sexy everday but do not relieve myself, as this will help to biuld up, or change, the chemicals in my brain. My pressent theory was use it or lose it, so I make sure there is some sex everyday even though it is crap. Just A thought. Kavy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > > on > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > > problem > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > > the > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > > among > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > > we > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > antagonists > > > > > are > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > dopamine > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > > from > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > > such > > > > an > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > > this > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > > and > > > > > very > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > Yohimbine > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > > HCL > > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > apologize > > > > for > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > > felt > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > > entirely > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > > as a > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > > matter > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > > this > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > receptors > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Just want to doublecheck... So you took feverfew for 'several days'... lets say 5... and then on the 4th day of stopping it... you felt some effects? Are you still off it now? Or are you taking it again? How's your depression? Just want to double check the dose you are at... 300mg right? BrentSubject: Re: 5HT1A /B AntagonistsTo: SSRIsex Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 10:26 PM I am still experiencing improvements with Feverfew. It works very well for me. I don't see much downside to experimenting with this since it is an herb and only 12-15 dollars for a bottle of 30. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > on > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > problem > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > the > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > among > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/ density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > we > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > antagonists > > > > are > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > dopamine > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > from > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > such > > > an > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > this > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > and > > > > very > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > Yohimbine > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > HCL > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > apologize > > > for > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > felt > > > > some > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > entirely > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > as a > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > matter > > > > > as > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > amphetamine > > > > > in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > this > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > heightened > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > receptors > > > > > causing > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Brent, I'd say 4 days then I stopped, because I could feel the effect of reduced serotonin as mild depression, so I knew it was working. I waited for 3 days or so for my body to metabolize whatever was left of the active ingredient: alpha-methylenebutyrolactone. I really noticed the rebound effect during the third night when I would wake up feeling light headed. After a couple of nights of this, I woke up feeling light headed and horny. From that point on, I haven't had to use the feverfew as much. I haven't taken it for almost three days and I still feel its benefits. I would go by feel: Take one capsule and pay attention to how your body reacts to it. If you suffer from the genital anesthesia that has been discussed in this group, you should feel a lessening of this within an hour. If not, take a second capsule. People's dosage requirements for all meds and nutrients vary according to their soma type: are you a fast metabolizer or slow? A slow metabolizer may need a higher dose to notice an immediate effect Or they may need to wait longer than I did to notice an effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > > > on > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > > > the > > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > > > among > > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/ density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > > > we > > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > > antagonists > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > > dopamine > > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > > > from > > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > > > such > > > > > an > > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > > > this > > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > > > and > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > > Yohimbine > > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > > > HCL > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > > apologize > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > > > felt > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > > > entirely > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > > > matter > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > > receptors > > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Kavyvinson, Its interesting you said that after initially stopping Nefazodone that your sex drive was " out of the world " which I take to mean high. I had the same reaction to nefazodone. Initially after two doses, I felt really good, but as I continued taking the med, the effect wore off and it wasn't until I abstained from using it that I had the rebound effect you mentioned. The rebound effect would disappear over a couple of days and I would no longer experience any benefit. This may be due to Nefazodone's antagonist action at 5HT2A. I added 10mg of fluoxetine which paradoxically restored libido for 2-3 days, before I felt I needed to add another 50 mg of Nefazodone. This combination seemed to work although not predictably enough to count as a treatment for PSSD over the long term. I just couldn't see myself juggling two meds day after day for the rest of my life. For me, feverfew works far better. I don't know why it works so well, but maybe the 5HT receptors respond to artificially lowered serotonin in the opposite way they respond to artificially raised levels of serotonin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that > focuses > > > on > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where > our > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read > on > > > the > > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic > receptors - > > > > > among > > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication > can > > > we > > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > > antagonists > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > > dopamine > > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient > suffering > > > > > from > > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon > find > > > such > > > > > an > > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so > for > > > this > > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor > antagonism > > > and > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > > Yohimbine > > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled > Yohimbine > > > HCL > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed > as a > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > > apologize > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. > I > > > felt > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > > > entirely > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up > MDMA > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for > that > > > > > matter > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short > term, > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling > of > > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they > may > > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > > receptors > > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 what kind brand did you take ? I tried vitaminshoppe brand which was feverfew " extract " not the other regular one for two days, I did notice depression and different mood. But I havent really noticed being horny or better genital sensation. Im thinking I might need to take it longer. Do think maybe you effect might be due to serotonin acutally bouncing back after the withdrawl ? because it seems that people experience some sort of feverfew withdrawl effect much like SSRI withdrawl syndrome. Are you still feeling the depression now with libido or do you have better mood after the withdrawl ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors - > > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/ density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > > > > antagonists > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > > > > dopamine > > > > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find > > > > > such > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism > > > > > and > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > > > > Yohimbine > > > > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine > > > > > HCL > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > > > > apologize > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I > > > > > felt > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was > > > > > entirely > > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that > > > > > > > matter > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > > > > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > > > > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > > > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > > > > receptors > > > > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > > > > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 I took Solaray's brand of " organically grown, excipient free " Feverfew that lists 455mg of feverfew per capsule. Compared to what is indicated for migraine treatment (50-150mg). Solaray gives you a high potency dose. I forgot to mention that on the first day. I took more than the listed dosage. I had taken 3 (that's 1.3 grams) capsules the first day, until I started noticing the effect. After that, I continued at 1 capsule a day in the morning. I'm pretty lean. I metabolize food quickly -get hungy fast. I am also sensitive to the effects of drugs because of this fast metabolism and because I don't have much in the way of fat stores to absorb and disperse medications, so they go very quickly to my brain. If I had to take three high-potency capsules to get the inital effect, others may have to take more or wait longer to see a cumulative effect. While on feverfew, I felt the genital anesthesia subside. But I did not notice any increase in libido until I started withdrawing from it. This is important to note! I would not give up on this herb too soon. Give it at least a month of experimentation. Assuming this works for all of us and my case is not some anomaly, you will see results. The side effects of this herb while taking it were mild depressive effect and sneezing occasionally, as this herb may cause allergic reactions. The withdrawal effect for me was the light headedness in the middle of the night, culminating with the restored libido 24-48 hours later. Someone posted this link before, but I'll post it again: http://www.drugs.com/npp/feverfew.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that > focuses > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is > where our > > > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've > read on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic > receptors - > > > > > > > > > among > > > > > > > > > > > others- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore > > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity/ density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What > medication can > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > reasonably > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A > > > > > > > antagonists > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > > > > > > > > > > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated > > > > > > > dopamine > > > > > > > > > > > antagonist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient > suffering > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > SSRI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > > > > > > > > > > Chlorpromazine > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon > find > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so > for > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > problem, > > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor > antagonism > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > > > > slight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about > > > > > > > Yohimbine > > > > > > > > > > > HCL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > Antagonist, > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled > Yohimbine > > > > > > > HCL > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only > listed as a > > > > > > > > > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I > > > > > > > apologize > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > passing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from > Wikipedia. I > > > > > > > felt > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it > was > > > > > > > entirely > > > > > > > > > > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up > MDMA > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for > that > > > > > > > > > matter > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar > to > > > > > > > > > > amphetamine > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short > term, > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling > of > > > > > > > > > > heightened > > > > > > > > > > > > > libido > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they > may > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A > > > > > > > receptors > > > > > > > > > > > causing > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of > 5HT1 > > > > > > > > > > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 I am intrested in your suggestion that it normalizes the penis in the muscle. For me my main problem is the lack of strength i have in my penis. This i think results in weaker erections and the inability to 'push' out the last few drops of urine when we go to the toilet. Kegal exercises are thought to help erectile dysfunction and may help to some extent, but i want to find out how one can really strengthen their muscles inside the penis shaft, this i think will help many. My muscles feel weak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to start a new thread that focuses on > > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > receptor > > > > > > > > > > > blockade, because I think this is where our > problem > > and > > > > > > solution > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately lie. > > > > > > > > > > > From the scientific abstracts I've read on the > > > > internet, > > > > > > SSRI's > > > > > > > > > > > downregulate 5HT1A postsynaptic receptors -among > > others- > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > use of 5HT1A antagonists can restore receptor > > > > > > > > sensitivity/density. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem we face is: What medication can we > > > > reasonably > > > > > > ask > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > will help our situation? Most 5HT1A antagonists > are > > > > found > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > class > > > > > > > > > > > of psych meds called neuroleptics or > antipsychotic, > > > > > > > > antischizphrenic > > > > > > > > > > > drugs which usually have associated dopamine > > antagonist > > > > > > > > properties. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may be difficult for a patient suffering from > > SSRI > > > > > > induced > > > > > > > > sexual > > > > > > > > > > > dysfunction to ask for Spiperone or > Chlorpromazine > > as > > > > > > simply an > > > > > > > > > > > adjuvant to or remedy for SSRI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that one of us will soon find such an > > agent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already know Nefazodone works so-so for this > > problem, > > > > but > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > problems due to adrenoreceptor antagonism and > very > > > > slight > > > > > > > > chance of > > > > > > > > > > > liver toxicity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should also post a retraction about Yohimbine > > HCL. > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > Wikipedia it IS classified as a 5HT1A/B > Antagonist, > > but > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is no > > > > > > > > > > > citation for this. When I Googled Yohimbine HCL > on > > the > > > > > > > > internet, I > > > > > > > > > > > find that Yohimbine HCL is only listed as a > 5HT1A/B > > > > > > agonist, so > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what to believe, but I apologize for > > > > passing > > > > > > along > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > could be incorrect info from Wikipedia. I felt > some > > > > > > improvement > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > Yohimbine, but now I'm thinking it was entirely > > from the > > > > > > > > > > > norepinepherine increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In past posts, people have brought up MDMA as a > > > > > > possibility, > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > > > > > just don't see that or Nefazodone for that matter > > as > > > > long > > > > > > term > > > > > > > > > > > solutions or cures. MDMA is similar to > amphetamine > > in > > > > that > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > boosts > > > > > > > > > > > SERT /5HTT and oxytocin. In the short term, this > > > > increase in > > > > > > > > > > > catecholamines may give you a feeling of > heightened > > > > libido > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > methylphenidate or adderall, but they may > > ultimately > > > > > > further > > > > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > > > regulate our already marginal 5HT1A receptors > > causing > > > > even > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > > > > sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vornan, have you tried any sort of 5HT1 > antagonist? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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