Guest guest Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 I don't have the article off hand. But I found one two years ago. It used only the leaf of a certain strain of tribulis terestrius specifically from Bulgaria. There is wide variation among this species, so these factors are highly important, since the variables where found to be ineffective. That is the specific circumstance where it was found to raise testosterone level. Beware of products that deviate from the specification of this scientific article, since other circumstances are not proven, and supplement companies where quick to jump without scientific validity. They did find an active ingredient that is supposed to be the determining factor for this effect. If you find a scientific abstract implicating serotonin in this process, please post it to the list, as I'd be interested to read it. > > > I've noticed that most herbs I've tried have ended up worsening PSSD for > me. And that goes for most of the so-called " aphrodisiacs " such as > horny goat weed, rhodiola, ginkgo biloba etc. etc. Anybody else noticed > the same thing? > > I suspect the problem is that 90% of these herbs are adaptogens and > raise serotonin through one mechanism or another. If you google these > herbs along with " serotonin' you will invariably find infor saying that > they increase serotonin. This might be OK with somebody without PSSD, > but if you have this condition it means the herbs won't work. > > The only one I've found so far that doesn't appear to raise serotonin is > tribulus terrestris. It's claimed that this herb is an aphrodisiac > because it raises tetsoterone levels, but there is scant medical > evidence that it does this. There is reasonable clinical evidence that > it raises libido, but subjectively I think it does this by lowering > serotonin. > > Thoughts? > > Vornan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 With herbs, etc, it seemed to be catch 22 I'm afraid. Scientists recently discovered that if they gave alcohol to mice it regenerated their brains, but it wasn't the alcohol that caused it, it was the relaxation and increased sociability that brought about new neuron growth. When I took 5HTP I was scared sh*tless that I was going to make things worse because chronically artificially raised serotonin is dangerous. But what if I became happy and started forming close relationships, and what if I started to deeply relax? Also, EPA works best when you have overcome your depression. I came to the conclusion that herbs might help to heal my brain, but they could make things worse, who knows. Anyway, 5HTP made me ill and SJW was just as bad. Rhodiola was fab but now doesn't work, so has it permantly down regulated the receptors in my brain? I hope not. Now I'm trying a cranial electricsl stimulator (CES), I shall keep you posted. Kavy PS, Kanna did nothing for me either. > > > > > > > > > I've noticed that most herbs I've tried have ended up worsening > > PSSD for > > > me. And that goes for most of the so-called " aphrodisiacs " such > as > > > horny goat weed, rhodiola, ginkgo biloba etc. etc. Anybody else > > noticed > > > the same thing? > > > > > > I suspect the problem is that 90% of these herbs are adaptogens > and > > > raise serotonin through one mechanism or another. If you google > > these > > > herbs along with " serotonin' you will invariably find infor > saying > > that > > > they increase serotonin. This might be OK with somebody without > > PSSD, > > > but if you have this condition it means the herbs won't work. > > > > > > The only one I've found so far that doesn't appear to raise > > serotonin is > > > tribulus terrestris. It's claimed that this herb is an > aphrodisiac > > > because it raises tetsoterone levels, but there is scant medical > > > evidence that it does this. There is reasonable clinical > evidence > > that > > > it raises libido, but subjectively I think it does this by > lowering > > > serotonin. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 I'm probably going to give the high dose fish oil another couple of months before re-assessing. I may switch to a high EPA concentration (like Omegabrite) and see if that makes any difference. Currently I'm on OmegaZone which has a 2:1 EPA/DHA ratio. Luther > > > > > > > > > I've noticed that most herbs I've tried have ended up worsening > > PSSD for > > > me. And that goes for most of the so-called " aphrodisiacs " such > as > > > horny goat weed, rhodiola, ginkgo biloba etc. etc. Anybody else > > noticed > > > the same thing? > > > > > > I suspect the problem is that 90% of these herbs are adaptogens > and > > > raise serotonin through one mechanism or another. If you google > > these > > > herbs along with " serotonin' you will invariably find infor > saying > > that > > > they increase serotonin. This might be OK with somebody without > > PSSD, > > > but if you have this condition it means the herbs won't work. > > > > > > The only one I've found so far that doesn't appear to raise > > serotonin is > > > tribulus terrestris. It's claimed that this herb is an > aphrodisiac > > > because it raises tetsoterone levels, but there is scant medical > > > evidence that it does this. There is reasonable clinical > evidence > > that > > > it raises libido, but subjectively I think it does this by > lowering > > > serotonin. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 According to Dr Basant Puri and Dr Stoll, both leading experts in omega 3 and depression, DHA will only make depression worse and stop the EPA from repairing your brain. Your body can convert EPA to DHA so there is no need to add DHA to your diet. They even recommend that you don't eat fish while on EPA treatment. After 3 months of pure EPA you can eat some fish again. DHA is a very beneficial oil, but not for depressed people. Kavy > > > > > > > > > > > > I've noticed that most herbs I've tried have ended up worsening > > > PSSD for > > > > me. And that goes for most of the so-called " aphrodisiacs " > such > > as > > > > horny goat weed, rhodiola, ginkgo biloba etc. etc. Anybody > else > > > noticed > > > > the same thing? > > > > > > > > I suspect the problem is that 90% of these herbs are adaptogens > > and > > > > raise serotonin through one mechanism or another. If you > google > > > these > > > > herbs along with " serotonin' you will invariably find infor > > saying > > > that > > > > they increase serotonin. This might be OK with somebody > without > > > PSSD, > > > > but if you have this condition it means the herbs won't work. > > > > > > > > The only one I've found so far that doesn't appear to raise > > > serotonin is > > > > tribulus terrestris. It's claimed that this herb is an > > aphrodisiac > > > > because it raises tetsoterone levels, but there is scant medical > > > > evidence that it does this. There is reasonable clinical > > evidence > > > that > > > > it raises libido, but subjectively I think it does this by > > lowering > > > > serotonin. > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Hi, I'm not sure what you want clarification of, since you seem to have partially answered your own question. Namely, the brain after SSRIs is not the same as the brain before SSRIs (if you have PSSD), so you don't respond to serotonin in the same way. Personally I think the brain is hypersensitive to serotonin after taking SSRIs.I don't think that the receptors are desensitized (with the possible exception of 5HT1a), but rather upregulated amd/or hypersensitized. Therefore, if you have a permamently increased number of serotonin receptors, your brain will overreact to normal fluctuations in serotonin levels. Here are some abstracts: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11199948?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA & linkpos=3 & log$=relatedarticles & logdbfrom=pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9335087?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum Vornan >> Can someone please clarify for me. Serotonin isn't the axe that kills your libido, it's the receptors in the brain that have been dulled by the medications. I mean, I remember before taking meds, having a perfect libido, especially after working out, which raises serotonin, and many other methods, which raise serotonin. Serotonin level fluctuation never caused a rise or fall in my sexual drive back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 SSRIs may also increase the rate at which serotonin is synthesized by the brain. For example, check this out: http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/61/4/778 Vornan -- In SSRIsex , "Vornan-19 (moderator)" wrote:>> > Hi,> > I'm not sure what you want clarification of, since you seem to have> partially answered your own question. Namely, the brain after SSRIs is> not the same as the brain before SSRIs (if you have PSSD), so you don't> respond to serotonin in the same way. Personally I think the brain is> hypersensitive to serotonin after taking SSRIs.> I don't think that the receptors are desensitized (with the possible> exception of 5HT1a), but rather upregulated amd/or hypersensitized. > Therefore, if you have a permamently increased number of serotonin> receptors, your brain will overreact to normal fluctuations in serotonin> levels. Here are some abstracts:> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11199948?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSys\> tem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Dis\> covery_RA & linkpos=3 & log$=relatedarticles & logdbfrom=pubmed> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11199948?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSy\> stem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Di\> scovery_RA & linkpos=3 & log$=relatedarticles & logdbfrom=pubmed>> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9335087?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSyst\> em2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_\> RVDocSum> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9335087?ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSys\> tem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed\> _RVDocSum>> > Vornan> > > >> > Can someone please clarify for me. Serotonin isn't the axe that kills> your libido, it's the receptors in the brain that have been dulled by> the medications. I mean, I remember before taking meds, having a> perfect libido, especially after working out, which raises serotonin,> and many other methods, which raise serotonin. Serotonin level> fluctuation never caused a rise or fall in my sexual drive back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I took 5HTP years ago, before I took antidepressants, and never noticed a thing. When I tried 5HTP recently, a few years after taking antidepressants, it blew head in. My normally mild tinitus went berserk for days and it sounded like my head was in a tin bucket. I cut the dose from 100mg to 50mg and then to even lower amounts, but there was no let up in my symptons. Eventually the severe tinitus did lesson but I remained physically uncomfortable until I gave it up. I braved it out for three weeks so there was plenty of time for my body to adapt. I was totally surprised because 5HTP in the past had produced no effects at all. Perhaps my brain is hypersensitive to serotonin now. Kavy > > > > > > Can someone please clarify for me. Serotonin isn't the axe that > kills > > your libido, it's the receptors in the brain that have been dulled by > > the medications. I mean, I remember before taking meds, having a > > perfect libido, especially after working out, which raises serotonin, > > and many other methods, which raise serotonin. Serotonin level > > fluctuation never caused a rise or fall in my sexual drive back then. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 I've heard many different things about EPA/DHA, and optimal ratios. It seems to depend on what your situation is. Over at dr-bob.org, the consensus seems to be DHA helps with mood swings, mania and that sort of thing..a mood " flattener " . EPA seems to help boost mood and helps with concentration..it's more for those of us with generally flat emotions. I fall in the latter category. That being said, I've decided to switch to OmegaBrite, which has a 7:1 EPA/DHA ratio. We'll see what happens. Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've noticed that most herbs I've tried have ended up > worsening > > > > PSSD for > > > > > me. And that goes for most of the so- called " aphrodisiacs " > > such > > > as > > > > > horny goat weed, rhodiola, ginkgo biloba etc. etc. Anybody > > else > > > > noticed > > > > > the same thing? > > > > > > > > > > I suspect the problem is that 90% of these herbs are > adaptogens > > > and > > > > > raise serotonin through one mechanism or another. If you > > google > > > > these > > > > > herbs along with " serotonin' you will invariably find infor > > > saying > > > > that > > > > > they increase serotonin. This might be OK with somebody > > without > > > > PSSD, > > > > > but if you have this condition it means the herbs won't work. > > > > > > > > > > The only one I've found so far that doesn't appear to raise > > > > serotonin is > > > > > tribulus terrestris. It's claimed that this herb is an > > > aphrodisiac > > > > > because it raises tetsoterone levels, but there is scant > medical > > > > > evidence that it does this. There is reasonable clinical > > > evidence > > > > that > > > > > it raises libido, but subjectively I think it does this by > > > lowering > > > > > serotonin. > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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