Cae Milk Possible Hiv immunity booster?

July 15, 2006

I read a post on another group and wander if I am understanding the

suggestion toward the end properly? I will paste a copy of the post

then ask my question at the End of this message

The following is a post I copied from another group:

I have two does that are both negative for CAE, but I did a lot of

reading

before I bought my goats, and ehre's what I remember about CAE:

It can cause problems with swollen joints, early onset of arthritis,

and

other health problems. It is passed from mother to kid through the

milk, and

can also be passed by saliva or blood contact. Some goats will test

positive

for CAE, and never show symptoms. Some will have problems early in

life, or

later in life - it's anyone's guess. The only way to eliminate CAE

from your

herd is to isolate the goats with CAE from the ones without it -

completely,

by keeping two separete pens, barns, etc. . There is some thought

that CAE

can be transmitted virally, so keeping the goats separated is

important. You

can pasteurize the milk from a CAE doe and feed it to kids or drink

it - the

pasteurization kills the CAE. There is no health threat to humans

from CAE,

so you can drink the raw milk - and tehre are some studies being

done that

suggest humans with CAE virus have better immunity/protection to HIV

and

AIDS.

I agree it would be nice to have a remedy to CAE, but I also think

that,

considering the health impact on the goats, it's better to try to

eliminate

CAE in our herds through pasteurizing milk and keeping CAE animals

separate.

WHy start out a goat herd with the high potential of serious health

problems? On the other hand, if we have a good goat that happens to

be CAE

positive, there are ways to prevent the CAE from spreading besides

culling

the goat. It's a choice everyone has to decide for themselves. I

decided to

buy does that were CAE-free, and not worry about it.

Ok here is my question: In the post it refers to Cae Virus in

humanes giving them a possible more imunity to Hiv and Aids. While

CAE is definately a negative thing for Goats I wander if there is

any truth to the part about Cae Virus and HIV. So many people have

this dreaded virus thru tranfusions etc and I was just curious if

there has been truly any research to this. With all the Benefits of

Raw Dairy could this be though a negative thing for GOATS a positive

thing for people with this disease?

July 16, 2006

Just a reminder from your gentle moderator. Please do not use

profanity on the list, please do not flame people, and please do

not get offended easily. Try to read emails for the way they were

intended, although I know that is difficult in this medium.

One good idea: sleep on it before you hit " send " . Also, perhaps

test your email on a spouse or friend to see what they think

before sending.

Thank you.

D.

moderator

July 16, 2006

My

husband is an officer in the Army and has served 19 yrs and will serve another

12 yrs. We don’t trust in government control. We don’t vax, we

homeschool, and extend brestfeeding and eat organically and drink raw milk, grassfed

meat and follow the Weston A. Price diet. My son ended up in the ER with a 105

fever and a respiratory bacterial infection 2 weeks ago. The Dr. had the nerve

to tell me my son got sick because he wasn’t vaxed. He was trying to

scare me into vaxing. I laughed my ass off at him! My husband said he has had

every imaginable vax being in the Army and still gets the same illness. Even htough

my husband has to be vaxed he doesn’t want any of our kids vaxed. I don’t

trust Dr.s, the health dept the FDA and the list could go on and on. Once my

husband is done serving we will buy a farm and live far from suburbia. And I’m

not a liberal I believe we can make decisions for ourselves what is right for

us not the government. We drove through Iowa a few days ago and I can tell you the entire state was Pioneer GMO

corn every inch had that corn on it and the signs up that it was GMO I nearly

gagged as mile for mile all the corn with all the pesticides took over the

beautiful landscape.

Not if it means

the Big Pharms losing a nickel....well, you can see how complex this can

become....especially for people like Donna who are still stuck in the

Government is Good phase, not comprehending that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of We

The People to keep tabs on the governement, and to PROTEST when they become too

heavy-handed, destroying our rights. And that is EXACTLY what this

entire raw milk movement is about - WE THE PEOPLE demanding our rights to

freely choose and raise our own food without governement control, government

interference.....

Sharon, NH

July 16, 2006

<<Donna wrote:

I would NEVER consume any raw dairy product

that contained any virus of any kind.>>

How do you ensure this?

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

July 16, 2006

Great post! Fevers can be cause by allergies also, was a new food introduced? My son had high temperature to convulsions when I switched him from breast milk to store bought milk at 3 months old.....that was 38 years ago, and I was very ignorant then. Now I have 2 grown and healthy adult children and grandchild because of my continuing reading alternative information and lifestyle choices........DC Jarvis is a wealth of information on Apple cider vinegar and iodine which is so helpful for infections in people and goats.......iodine is especially needed by the young, because they have a large thyroid gland and this may be the first, most powerful defense against infection. The blood is continually circulated through this gland and it requires iodine to do it's work. Zinc is also an easy remedy for infections, we have been using these for years and sharing this information with others, always successfully. TA

D. C. Jarvis was a doctor practicing in the 1960's

on 7/16/06 7:38 AM, at aegearhart@... wrote:

My husband is an officer in the Army and has served 19 yrs and will serve another 12 yrs. We don¹t trust in government control. We don¹t vax, we homeschool, and extend brestfeeding and eat organically and drink raw milk, grassfed meat and follow the Weston A. Price diet. My son ended up in the ER with a 105 fever and a respiratory bacterial infection 2 weeks ago. The Dr. had the nerve to tell me my son got sick because he wasn¹t vaxed. He was trying to scare me into vaxing. I laughed my ass off at him! My husband said he has had every imaginable vax being in the Army and still gets the same illness. Even htough my husband has to be vaxed he doesn¹t want any of our kids vaxed. I don¹t trust Dr.s, the health dept the FDA and the list could go on and on. Once my husband is done serving we will buy a farm and live far from suburbia. And I¹m not a liberal I believe we can make decisions for ourselves what is right for us not the government. We drove through Iowa a few days ago and I can tell you the entire state was Pioneer GMO corn every inch had that corn on it and the signs up that it was GMO I nearly gagged as mile for mile all the corn with all the pesticides took over the beautiful landscape.

Not if it means the Big Pharms losing a nickel....well, you can see how complex this can become....especially for people like Donna who are still stuck in the Government is Good phase, not comprehending that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of We The People to keep tabs on the governement, and to PROTEST when they become too heavy-handed, destroying our rights. And that is EXACTLY what this entire raw milk movement is about - WE THE PEOPLE demanding our rights to freely choose and raise our own food without governement control, government interference.....

Sharon, NH

July 16, 2006

Thanks

for the info. I was not prepared since I was at my mil in the middle of no

where. My ds is 3 yrs old and we came up for a vacation from Georgia to Minnesota. My husband’s

cousin’s son had a very bad bacterial infection from his daycare and

viral infection in his respiratory tract and got everyone in my family sick. It’s

been 11 days and everyone is still sick. I got very sick as well. Even my

husband’s 97 yr old grandma got sick. It was so insensitive for her to

bring her son over. I was not aware he was sick before he came to visit my mil.

It ruined our two week vacation and I will always check the kids health when

they walk in the door. He had green stuff just running out of his nose

everywhere. That and conjunctivitis eye infection in all of us I have 4 kids.

My kids are still sick they have a bad cough. Needless to say I was not happy.

My ds came down with the fever so quick we were REALLY worried. He had never

been sick like this ever and never that high of a fever.

G.

Great post! Fevers

can be cause by allergies also, was a new food introduced? My son

had high temperature to convulsions when I switched him from breast milk

to store bought milk at 3 months old.....that was 38 years ago, and I was very

ignorant then. Now I have 2 grown and healthy adult children and

grandchild because of my continuing reading alternative information

and lifestyle choices........DC Jarvis is a wealth of information on Apple

cider vinegar and iodine which is so helpful for infections in people and

goats.......iodine is especially needed by the young, because they have a large

thyroid gland and this may be the first, most powerful defense against

infection. The blood is continually circulated through this gland and it

requires iodine to do it's work. Zinc is also an easy remedy for

infections, we have been using these for years and sharing this

information with others, always successfully. TA

D. C. Jarvis was a doctor practicing in the 1960's

July 18, 2006

Debbie,

Some things we tested for, other things we vaccinate for. The

goats we tested for CAE and have been very careful about who we buy

from. I understand that I can still end up with it popping up as it

is a retrovirus.

If I were buying goat milk from someone, I would want them to

show me whole herd testing from Washington State University WADDL

that was negative for CAE. I would want to talk to the attending

veterinarian to ask if there have ever been any symptoms of es,

CL, mycoplasma or other chronic diseases. What's the herd history of

mastitis? What kinds of mastitis? I know enough to be able to walk

into a herd of cows or goats and by picking the dairyperson's brain

on herd history pretty much determine what's what.

With the cows, you have a much better 'cushion' of health, as

you have so many things that you can vaccinate against. Other things

that you can test for when you are buying so you start out with

healthy animals. But, I would sure still be really skeptical and

cautious about where I bought from. About 15% to 35% of all dairy

cows in USA are estimated to be es positive. That's pretty high

odds of getting one if you aren't careful. I would want to really

vet any cow that came off a commercial dairy. The economic impact

of chronic diseases are being felt and so many dairies are making

great efforts to have disease free animals. Just because an animal

comes off a commercial dairy doesn't mean it's got a chronic problem

or that it doesn't. And, just because you buy it from old grannie

down the road, same thing, doesn't mean it's disease free.

Inexperience and ignorance is one of the really disturbing

things to me about the current raw milk fad. There are an awful lot

of newbies out there who are not just milking a cow or a goat for

themselves but also selling milk. They lack the expertise to ensure

they are milking a healthy animal. That's going to cause us all a

lot of trouble later down the road when somebody does get sick.

Here is a good example.... you go out to milk one morning and

you let your cow/goat in to eat and you start milking. You notice

she is having trouble eating but she still has a good appetite, she

is dropping feed and it seems that on left side of her face, one ear

is a bit droopy and one eye a bit squinty. So, you finish milking,

and you think, well, maybe she has gotten stung by a bee. You go to

the house and put the milk up. Later in afternoon your 'milk share'

family stop by and pick up some of that milk. That evening you

notice she is no worse, but no better, either. Hmmmm, is she

sticking her tongue out?? at you?? At supper that night you drink

the now chilled morning milk you kept. The next morning, she is

still no better, you think, gee, maybe I need to take her temp and

call someone to figure this out. So, you take her temp and sure

enough she is running a slight fever. But, she is still eating, and

drinking, but dropping food as she chews. Her milk production is

down some, but not a lot. You wonder what's wrong with her???

So, all you newbies... what's wrong with her and is it something

that can hurt you??? I hope all you old hands know what's probably

the problem because most likely you have had at least one case on

your farm.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

> I would NEVER consume any raw dairy product

> that contained any virus of any kind.>>

>

> How do you ensure this?

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> gdchik@...

> http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

>

July 22, 2006

Donna wrote:

So, all you newbies... what's wrong with her and is it something

> that can hurt you??? I hope all you old hands know what's probably

> the problem because most likely you have had at least one case on

> your farm.

Debbie replied:

You know what Donna what you describe could be anything from wooden tongue,

stroke, listeria, rabies or even maybe the beginnings of mad cow just to

name a few possibilities that pop into mind. Dropping food when she eats,all

cows do this, could even be that she has a tooth problem. Some of these

things can be a milk issue some aren't. A bee sting just doesn't come into

my head at all but I am obviously not as intelligent or experienced as you

so why don't you just fill us in. Personally I would call the vet if it was

mine and not after I had drank the milk I would call him when I came in from

milking to find out if he thought I should dump the milk. So do I pass?

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

July 22, 2006

Debbie,

Draw in your claws, I have not yet even sharpened mine, so you

are looking silly. Would you be that hateful to me in person, face

to face? The point I am trying to make is that yes ma'am both you

and I have the depth of livestock keeping background to understand

that SOMETHING is wrong and to get a vet NOW. Still don't know if

Gordon does or not, as he has so far avoided the questions I asked.

I took this from personal experience and the folks it happened

to did NOT realize that the cow was seriously ill until the milk

production dropped the following day. They were not rank, newbies,

but there were 'concrete canyon converts' who had moved to

countryside a few years previous and had kept a cow about three

years. It was listeriosis and you were correct to always suspect

rabies, then rule it out due to it's significant human health

risks. I could go into more detail about why it wasn't the other

things you mentioned, but you would accuse me of talking down and

being long winded. LOL

But, how many on this list do not have our ability to recognize

subtle signs of sick stock?? How many of them are milking and 'cow

share' etc.... And, we all know that there are a world of folks who

are drinking raw milk gotten 'under the table' and are taking only

someone else's word (who I hope is knowledgable) that the milk is OK

to drink.

I grew up with real people who kept real cows and drank real

milk raw. Those oldtimers had stories about personal experiences

about milk that it could indeed make you SICK. As I grew up that was

the stuff they taught ME about livestock keeping so that I wouldn't

be DEADstock keeping. Didn't read any books or articles or websites

or any health guru's sermons, I learned it from real people, hands on

like it was taught to them by our ancestors.

As I related in my introduction, I lost my great, great grand

parents, who along with their infant daughter, died in 1870 after

drinking milk from a cow that had eaten rattlebox that spring.

Truely, today I would be more worried about drinking milk that has

stuff like staph, strep, mycoplasma, leptospirosis, CAE (in goats),

es, and so forth, than that a cow would eat rattlebox and poison

me. But, given someone short on hay, early springtime, and a hungry

cow grazing the edge of woods around here, they could indeed get a

hold of rattlebox. It still grows here. In fact, I have walked the

very pasture where that cow ate it and then it killed my ancestors.

Do you care to make any attempts at education of those who

didn't just grow up with raw milk a part of their heretige like you

and I did? (I am taking for granted that you did grow up on a farm

and that you were raised on raw milk and that you do now keep dairy

animals) Reality is that less than 2% of population has any

connection to any kind of agriculture and are more than two

generations away from farm living. They have no living 'mentor' to

fall back upon for real life practical experiences of farming.

If we who produce raw milk want the politicians to make it LEGAL

to produce and market raw dairy products then that other 98% of the

population has got to have a grasp on the reality of raw milk risks

and benefits. How can anyone in good faith promote the benefits

without also addressing the risks? Trust is so easy to loose and

darn hard to ever regain.

What keeps coming to my mind about the naive folks out there, is

that a couple of weeks ago a woman wrote this list that the raw cow

milk she was getting now had a 'bitter' taste. But, she was still

drinking it. Uh, uh, not around here! It would have been dumped and

figured out what was wrong! Because something was WRONG, milk should

be the best taste you ever wrapped your lips around!

If to be on this list I have to toe a politically correct

line of:

badmouthing science, vaccines, government, medicine, government

employees;

be consumed with paranoia and hatred of commonly accepted practices

of farming and agriculture;

believe that all raw milk is always 100% safe for every single person

out there to consume all the time;

that everyone/everywhere can produce safe raw milk just because they

own a dairy animal and can pull a teat;

that raw milk cures all that ails you, etc......... then yep, you all

are not going to like me. Being politically correct just isn't one

of my character attributes. Oh, well.

OMG another long winded post of what? seven paragraphs? Still

flipping my cheese, milking goats, and checking on those two bloomin'

cows who so far show no signs of freshening. Got to go do chores.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

" Never wrassle a pig, you'll both get dirty and the pig will enjoy it

a lot. "

> So, all you newbies... what's wrong with her and is it something

> > that can hurt you??? I hope all you old hands know what's

probably

> > the problem because most likely you have had at least one case on

> > your farm.

> Debbie replied:

> You know what Donna what you describe could be anything from wooden

tongue,

> stroke, listeria, rabies or even maybe the beginnings of mad cow

just to

> name a few possibilities that pop into mind. Dropping food when she

eats,all

> cows do this, could even be that she has a tooth problem. Some of

these

> things can be a milk issue some aren't. A bee sting just doesn't

come into

> my head at all but I am obviously not as intelligent or experienced

as you

> so why don't you just fill us in. Personally I would call the vet

if it was

> mine and not after I had drank the milk I would call him when I

came in from

> milking to find out if he thought I should dump the milk. So do I

pass?

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> gdchik@...

> http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

>

July 22, 2006

Hey, Donna;

Guess I got it right after all! How come you didn't answer me? Did you miss

my post?

Jessi who never has had an animal with those symptoms

LHR Manufacturing

Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines

http://www.milking-machines.com

Re: Cae Milk Possible Hiv immunity booster?

It was listeriosis and you were correct to always suspect

rabies, then rule it out due to it's significant human health

risks.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

July 22, 2006

> > So, all you newbies... what's wrong with her and is it something

> > > that can hurt you??? I hope all you old hands know what's

> probably

> > > the problem because most likely you have had at least one case

on

> > > your farm.

> > Debbie replied:

> > You know what Donna what you describe could be anything from

wooden

> tongue,

> > stroke, listeria, rabies or even maybe the beginnings of mad cow

> just to

> > name a few possibilities that pop into mind. Dropping food when

she

> eats,all

> > cows do this, could even be that she has a tooth problem. Some

of

> these

> > things can be a milk issue some aren't. A bee sting just

doesn't

> come into

> > my head at all but I am obviously not as intelligent or

experienced

> as you

> > so why don't you just fill us in. Personally I would call the

vet

> if it was

> > mine and not after I had drank the milk I would call him when I

> came in from

> > milking to find out if he thought I should dump the milk. So do

I

> pass?

> > Debbie Chikousky

> > Manitoba, Canada

> > gdchik@

> > http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

> >

>

July 22, 2006

Dear Donna,

I am just a very green newbie trying to learn what I can from this

list. There is certainly a wealth of experience and knowledge here

and one thing I have enjoyed thus far is the generosity and kind

advice given by members.

You have far more personal experience than many and could be

considered very fortunate indeed to have come from a line of

ancestors who took the time to educate you in matters of good animal

husbandry. I have read many of your posts and find you to be

knowledgeable in many practical matters that I am completely ignorant

of. I would welcome your knowledge and experiences.

It's not about political correctness or personal beliefs or honest

talk. I don't think anyone here objects to straight talk and good

advice. I just find mention of sharpened claws, etc., out of place

in a forum where people come to learn and share knowledge. Surely

personalities are a factor on any list but if correspondence is meant

to belittle the contributions of any other member perhaps it is

better to rewrite the contribution before sending. It's not about

taking sides...just basic decency and respect to those who share on

this list with the intent of learning.

I would personally welcome future contributions from you as I find

you have much experience. But not at the cost of further upsetting

the good intent and helpful nature of this list. I would just ask

that you accept that there are no battles to be fought here. I can

overlook a lot, accepting that differing personalities will have

differing styles, but the direction that some recent posts have taken

is not in a spirit of resolution of past conflict and could be much

more diplomatically and respectfully presented. I ask for your

future consideration of the above...that is all, as a good will

gesture in helping to return the list to its former spirit.

Randi

> > So, all you newbies... what's wrong with her and is it something

> > > that can hurt you??? I hope all you old hands know what's

> probably

> > > the problem because most likely you have had at least one case

on

> > > your farm.

> > Debbie replied:

> > You know what Donna what you describe could be anything from

wooden

> tongue,

> > stroke, listeria, rabies or even maybe the beginnings of mad cow

> just to

> > name a few possibilities that pop into mind. Dropping food when

she

> eats,all

> > cows do this, could even be that she has a tooth problem. Some

of

> these

> > things can be a milk issue some aren't. A bee sting just

doesn't

> come into

> > my head at all but I am obviously not as intelligent or

experienced

> as you

> > so why don't you just fill us in. Personally I would call the

vet

> if it was

> > mine and not after I had drank the milk I would call him when I

> came in from

> > milking to find out if he thought I should dump the milk. So do

I

> pass?

> > Debbie Chikousky

> > Manitoba, Canada

> > gdchik@

> > http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

> >

>

July 22, 2006

You may have a lot of experience, but you are short on manners and long on false assumptions. You barged onto this list, packing a lot of assumptions about who " we " are and " what " we know and don't know. Debbie wouldn't know how to extend her claws to save her fanny (that'd

be the 3-letter word, in your world, beginning with a, ending in s).

You, on the other hand, have never retracted yours. You came onto

this list gunning for something.

You asked Debbie if she'd talk to someone in person, like she talked to you (which, by the way, I saw NOTHING in what she said to be rude or in any way ill-mannered, which I cannot say for you), and I'd like to ask the same thing of you. Are you THIS aggressive, THIS hostile, THIS much in the face of people you meet in everyday life? You claim to be a writer in a pretty-well accepted publication. A writer worth their words would have had some training, somewhere along the line, that there are different styles of writing for different audiences. Maybe you're just really confused and don't understand that the dominatrix schtick isn't working here.

I'd think a truly intelligent person, who really did care about the welfare of other people, would try to hear what others are saying. There's not a single person who has expressed respect for you. You don't give a flippin cow pie, though...I forgot about that. You've made it clear people are supposed to submit to whatever garbage you want to heap on 'em, but you have no responsibility in the matter. That's perverse.

I think you may actually know a thing or two. But right now, Donna, I find you SO repulsive, SO ugly, SO mean-spirited that I really can't look beyond the tone to find the meat of what you're saying. And yes, trust me, I'd tell you the same thing to your face.

Sharon