Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 I have 60 Holstein cows plus young stock that have had no grain for over six years. It can be done. It requires good management to keep cows in good flesh and producing. I pasture taller than most, so the plant provides a better balance for the cow. Less protein and more fiber and energy. Good quality hay in winter is also very important to keep cows in good shape and milk production going. I have a mix of grasses, clovers, and a few alfalfas sprinkled in some fields. Grass and clover are ideal for keeping cows milking and gaining. I also plant oats in spring to pasture off in June/July, and again in Aug. for Oct. and Nov. We've also planted Purple top turnips the last couple years and greatly extend our season with these annuals. I've got some pictures of the oats and turnips in the photos section. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Yes, , it is possible and is being done, but grass changes its nutritive qualities drastically as it matures. Also, each kind of grass has its own growth patterns affected by season, available soil moisture, and temperature. Grass contains its greatest nutritive potential when vegetative and succulent. It is easiest to obtain all a cow's nutritive needs from grass in the spring time, when the grass is growing fast and is juicy and palatable. As the grass matures the carbohydrates, and digestible fiber turn tough and indigestible and protein percentage drops greatly. A magazine devoted to grazing and dairying is GRAZE. Their web site is www.grazeonline.com. University of Wisconsin has the premier grass dairying program in the country. More and more diaries are getting off of grains or are feeding a minimum of grains. It is likely that very few grass-based dairies feed absolutely no grain at all, but some feed very little or next to no grains. Irrigation is often a must for dairies wanting to feed as much grass as possible. As summer temperatures come along and soil moisture drops, many grasses cease to grow and become marginally nutritive, therefore managing and irrigating summer grasses becomes necessary. Grass well managed is actually the best food for dairy cows, but another issue has to do with breeding and training. Some very large cows who also have smaller jaws in comparison to body size will be at a disadvantage. Grains is high in carbs per each mouthful. It takes longer for a cow on grass to get as much carb energy from grass. The grass must be in the right growth stage. If a large cow bred for feed lot production is put on grass, it may not be able to get enough carbs from the grass into its mouth and will decline in performance. Smaller breeds of dairy cattle can do better on an all grass diet in comparison. There are many factors at issue. The whole science of grass management can get quite involving and does not have to get as complicated for a small scale hobbyist. But all-grass dairying is becoming more a reality as the industry gets more experience. Farmers in the US, New Zealand, Argentina, and Ireland ARE doing it. I have been studying this subject for about three years now, and have taken classes in pasture and browse management. Hope this helps, Brown www.goatrevolution.com On 5/25/06, wrote > Someone on one of the lists I am on mentioned something about grass fed > jersey's or goats, not sure which. Is it possible for a cow or goat to > give enough milk for a family feeding on grass (pasture) alone? I have > heard of beef cows being grass fed only, why not milk cows or milk > goats? If yes, where could I find information on this? > ,Ms. > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Where do you live? We are interested in this but it get to -40F in the winter here and need no one really knows how to get enough energy to keep animals producing and healthy without some grain. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ Re: Grass fed I have 60 Holstein cows plus young stock that have had no grain forover six years. It can be done. It requires good management to keepcows in good flesh and producing. I pasture taller than most, so theplant provides a better balance for the cow. Less protein and morefiber and energy. Good quality hay in winter is also very important to keep cows ingood shape and milk production going. I have a mix of grasses,clovers, and a few alfalfas sprinkled in some fields. Grass and cloverare ideal for keeping cows milking and gaining. I also plant oats in spring to pasture off in June/July, and againin Aug. for Oct. and Nov. We've also planted Purple top turnips thelast couple years and greatly extend our season with these annuals.I've got some pictures of the oats and turnips in the photos section. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Hi DebWe did an experiment this past winter with our beef and 1 dairy cow. We fed dry hay bales all the time and 1 wrapped bale every second day. this seemed to work. we did give a 5 liter pail of grain every morning between 10 cows so not even more than a handful each to keep them coming up top the barn but no other grains were fed and our cows did well. Our Jersey though needed some extra grain I found as she was due to kid earlier than the others and she was a little thinner than I liked to see but nothing drastic. We found this worked pretty well once the cows got used to the wrapped bales as they hadn't ever had this before to eat. it took 2 bales before they were waiting for it to arrive. I am not sure we will do this again next year or not yet, but we did think this was possible if needed in the future. One must be sure to have the best hay and wrapped bales to do this though. Poor quality hay and this would not have worked out at all in my opinion, especially with our extremely cold winters. huggs, Bev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 I'm in northern WI so I'm very familiar with cold. I also outwinter my cattle so they are in the cold all the time. I have no trouble keeping cows in good flesh. We have a big shed so they can get out of the wind. That's where the good quality hay comes in. We do make some baleage, and that also helps with quality. Cheyenne > > Where do you live? We are interested in this but it get to -40F in the winter here and need no one really knows how to get enough energy to keep animals producing and healthy without some grain. > Debbie Chikousky > Manitoba, Canada > gdchik@... > http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ > Re: Grass fed > > > I have 60 Holstein cows plus young stock that have had no grain for > over six years. It can be done. It requires good management to keep > cows in good flesh and producing. I pasture taller than most, so the > plant provides a better balance for the cow. Less protein and more > fiber and energy. > > Good quality hay in winter is also very important to keep cows in > good shape and milk production going. I have a mix of grasses, > clovers, and a few alfalfas sprinkled in some fields. Grass and clover > are ideal for keeping cows milking and gaining. > > I also plant oats in spring to pasture off in June/July, and again > in Aug. for Oct. and Nov. We've also planted Purple top turnips the > last couple years and greatly extend our season with these annuals. > I've got some pictures of the oats and turnips in the photos section. > > > > Cheyenne > > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 What exactly do you call good quality hay? I would be interested in numbers such as TDN, Protien. What is the hay made of if it isn't pure alfalfa? Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ Re: Grass fed I'm in northern WI so I'm very familiar with cold. I also outwintermy cattle so they are in the cold all the time. I have no troublekeeping cows in good flesh. We have a big shed so they can get out ofthe wind. That's where the good quality hay comes in. We do make somebaleage, and that also helps with quality. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Bev wrote:>>Our Jersey though needed some extra grain I found as she was due to kid earlier than the others and she was a little thinner than I liked to see but nothing drastic.<< Did this work when she freshened also? Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hi Deb, Yes this still worked. We do not start milking them until the babies are 12 weeks old so we don't add any new stresses on her body except for feeding her baby. Then when we start milking her she is by then on lush pasture and we do grain her 2 lb per once a day milking. We have done it where they got no grain but decided that once we start milking her and asking her to produce more than a calf needs she will get grain. Before she gets dried off we slowly decrease her grain until she is bad to no grain and dried up. huggs, Bev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 My hay is mostly grass and clover mix. There are a few alfalfas, but not many. Good quality for me is green, no mold, moderate protein (15% to 18%) not too ripe. I don't mind it starting to head out. Keep in mind a cow needs a total 15%-16% protein diet so if you're feeding only forage it only needs to be 16% protein or avg. that. If you have lower 1st cut and higher 2nd they could be mixed to make a nice balance. Also, any excess has to be excreted through the milk or urine. This requires energy. If the cow is short or even borderline on energy she has to take the fat off her back to provide the energy to excrete the excess protein. This is where alfalfa causes so much trouble. It is way too high in soluble protein which taxes the cow. As I've posted before, top quality alfalfa should be used as a protein supplement to be mixed with other hay. The RFV tests are probably going to be changed because they don't accurately reflect the true value of grass. Everything has been based on alfalfa. It is being suggested that grass hay needs about 30 points added to be accurate. I've only taken 1 forage sample in the past 8 to 10 years. I manage by manure consistency. I don't like cows too loose. Sometimes in spring it is hard to do. I feed pasture and hay in winter to keep the consistency I want. If they get too loose then some taller pasture or lower protein hay is a quick fix. Cheyenne > > What exactly do you call good quality hay? I would be interested in numbers such as TDN, Protien. What is the hay made of if it isn't pure alfalfa? > Debbie Chikousky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 <<I feed pasture and hay in winter to keep theconsistency I want.>> How do you feed pasture in the winter? I thought WI (Wisconson right) had the same kind of winters as Manitoba from what you said in an earlier post about knowing all about cold. I have two feet of snow here from about November to March which is one of my problems with getting the hay good enough to keep a lactating Jersey or goat in milk in the winter without grain and without her taking too much off her back. I haven't found this kind of info anywhere so if you can help that would be great. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 One of the best grazing resources is the Stockman Grass Farmer Magazine. Over the years they have had many articles about near year round grazing, even in Canada. http://stockmangrassfarmer.net/ > How do you feed pasture in the winter? I haven't found this kind of info anywhere so if you can help that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 That should have been pasture in summer and hay in winter. Sorry about that. Too much of a hurry I guess. Yes, we have the bitter cold and snow also. The last couple of years we've made it almost to the end of Nov. with the turnips as the weather was much more mild than normal. Ground was froze, but snow held off till the end of the month. What kind of grasses, clover, alfalfa do you have? Orchard grass is very low quality if ripe and would be harder to keep condition on if you have lots of it. I've had to deal with lots of orchard in the past and let the cows be selective in what they ate. They probably ate about 3/4 of the hay and the rest was bedding. A couple years back the orchard grass froze out so more clover filled in which made a nice mix. We can put up a lot of hay in short time so I usually get the hay where we want it. Also with baleage rained on hay is mostly eliminated. If it looks like rain we bale it and wrap it. In '05 it rained through the first half of June and we got 4 days of dry about the 17th so we cut and baled 200+ acres in 4 days (500 round bales). It was on the lower end of what I want so 2nd cut was made all into baleage so we could cut it when needed to get a little more protein to balance out the first cut. Baleage only requires 1 to 2 days instead of 3 to 5 for dry hay. I have used some trace minerals for fertilizing (zinc, copper, boron, and manganese. Also, high calcium lime, rock phosphate, and Ocean Grown Sea concentrate to improve mineral levels. I've got a ways to go, but it may be helping improve the quality of forage I grow and feed. I let the cows eat all they want all the time. There is a LOT of interest in no grain. I was on the front page of Graze in Feb. '06 I have talked to farmers from all over the US that are wanting to quit feeding grain, especially those buying organic grain. McNair (editor) said that article generated more response than anything he had ever written. I never tell anyone to quit as it has to be the farmers choice. I will give as much input as possible to help them avoid some of the mistakes I've made. Cheyenne > > <<I feed pasture and hay in winter to keep the > consistency I want.>> > How do you feed pasture in the winter? I thought WI (Wisconson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 How to you keep the flea beetles from eating your turnips? I lost your post from a long time ago about this so have to ask again. Sorry. Our hayfields have brome, timothy, alsip clover, red clover, alfalfa and whatever happens to naturally grow here. My goats particularly like the fields with lots of wild flowers like brown eyed susans etc. Do you have any links to show the feed value of "weeds"? I am sure there is value in them that many of us dismiss but in Europe they feed dandelions for more milk. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/ That should have been pasture in summer and hay in winter. Sorryabout that. Too much of a hurry I guess. Yes, we have the bitter coldand snow also. The last couple of years we've made it almost to theend of Nov. with the turnips as the weather was much more mild thannormal. Ground was froze, but snow held off till the end of the month. What kind of grasses, clover, alfalfa do you have? Orchard grass isvery low quality if ripe and would be harder to keep condition on ifyou have lots of it. I've had to deal with lots of orchard in the pastand let the cows be selective in what they ate. They probably ateabout 3/4 of the hay and the rest was bedding.A couple years back the orchard grass froze out so more clover filledin which made a nice mix. We can put up a lot of hay in short time soI usually get the hay where we want it. Also with baleage rained onhay is mostly eliminated. If it looks like rain we bale it and wrapit. In '05 it rained through the first half of June and we got 4days of dry about the 17th so we cut and baled 200+ acres in 4 days(500 round bales). It was on the lower end of what I want so 2nd cutwas made all into baleage so we could cut it when needed to get alittle more protein to balance out the first cut. Baleage onlyrequires 1 to 2 days instead of 3 to 5 for dry hay. I have used some trace minerals for fertilizing (zinc, copper, boron,and manganese. Also, high calcium lime, rock phosphate, and OceanGrown Sea concentrate to improve mineral levels. I've got a ways togo, but it may be helping improve the quality of forage I grow andfeed. I let the cows eat all they want all the time. There is a LOT of interest in no grain. I was on the front page ofGraze in Feb. '06 I have talked to farmers from all over the US thatare wanting to quit feeding grain, especially those buying organicgrain. McNair (editor) said that article generated more responsethan anything he had ever written.I never tell anyone to quit as it has to be the farmers choice. Iwill give as much input as possible to help them avoid some of themistakes I've made. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 I have had no trouble with flea beatles and I don't hear much about them around here. You could try some turnips to see if they would be a problem. If you don't put any commercial fertilizer on that could help. Some farmers spray fish and kelp on to alfalfa to keep alfalfa weevils away. It has to do with sugar content of crop. Bugs can't tolerate high sugar. May work with flea beetles. Jerry Brunetti has had a couple of articles in Acres USA that list mineral contents and feed values of many different " weeds " . There is a lot of nutrition in weeds. The June '06 issue of Acres has one of these articles. I don't know if it's online or not, but would recommend Acres to anyone as they have so much good info. Also a huge book catalog. Cows love dandelions. We have lots in spring. I'd say they are the favorite cow food. I move the cows all over the farm so they have access to many different plants throughout the growing season. I've seen them eat burdock, stinging nettles, lamb quarters, raspberry leaves, tree leaves, pine needles, and a lot of other plant. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.