Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Cate, I agree with you so much and relate to it all. Connor is so patient with me and the constant, non stop questions and information thrown at him from waking in the morning till he drops off to sleep at night. I am in a state of panic most of the time. " Need to teach him. Valuable time being lost. Need to push, need to work " But how Cate, How do I let up? I am so afraid if one moment passes that he is not being taught, questioned, reinforcered etc....I will lose the progress we have made. We have only been doing ABA-DTT since June of this year. Connor learns so quickly and goes through programs so fast his therapist can hardly keep up with handing me new programs. But Connor is bored. I find myself, like you the parent/therapist, in a constant state of " what next? " How do I get this through to him? What do I need to do in the next hour? I think, eat and breath Autism and how better to help my son. I wake up in the morning thinking about it, and go to sleep at night, IF I sleep, thinking about it. I know I am not alone, but how do we shut it off even for a brief moment of respite? The weight of his future lies on my shoulders and it can be overwhelming. That aside, how do you take data when doing more informal stuff with your son? I find it very distracting for both he and I to try and take data while doing an informal session. In formal sessions Connor still has to have tangible reinforcers or forget it. Some sessions he is ok with out the chips,(his most powerful reinforcer) but those are few. He has gotten to the point now where if you do not have something he wants as a reinforcer, why should he do the work? Am I doing something wrong? Eventually he will be mainstreamed into public school. I don't think his teachers will walk around with a bowl of chips just to get him to respond correctly. I suppose what I am trying to say in all this is I really understand how you feel. We are not only the parents of these kids but their teachers. Sometimes it is difficult to just let them be when you feel like every moment MIGHT be a moment lost in reinforcing something he knows or needs to learn. I think the " off " switch is broken on me. [ ] " Aversive mother " > Hi, > > Reading Jennie's post recently hit home with where we are. I have all but > dropped most of my former hard and fast rules, considering I started out > hard line Lovaas. My son at age 6 (and three years into this), has decided > that some of the programs are so darn uninteresting that if I even ask him > for simple responses in a receptive drill, e.g. Touch the one you eat for > instance, he might touch a shoe! Even though he knows it is NOT something > you eat and knows the label shoe very very well. He is I am afraid BORED > and sometimes without my even giving an SD will touch all the pictures on > the table rapidly namely each one as if to say LET ME OUT OF HERE! I think > somewhere along the way in my panic to teach him I lost sight of and lost > respect for him as the child he is. He became my subject or my goal and not > my child. He was so angry with me recently when I tried to push him on one > afternoon. First time I had ever seen him angry and I felt awful. I > deserved for him to be angry at me. I forgot to respect that he had had > enough. I pushed him on beyond where he was able to go and shame on > me. Big lesson for me. > > So, taking Vince's own words " be careful you don't become an inadvertent, > unintentional aversive, " I have taken to jumping into programs in a very > unstructured more fun, less ho hum way, and it' s simply yielding better > results. I go for the quick attack. I set something up for him, bring him > to the table, the floor, the kitchen, etc. and go quickly through it, and > I am done. Next program I might go to the floor and set up blocks and ask > questions about the blocks, reviewing colors, shapes etc that I would > normally do more formally, and just continuously change the agenda of drill > format. I get done what I want and need to get done, but I do it much much > more informally. > > I might grab a magazine or one of his favorite books, and quick attack go > in it for question/answer sessions, and before he can realize I have been > probing him I smile, ask him what he wants and grant his request before he > starts making errors out of boredom, distraction etc. > > I am getting such skewed data because of the boredom factor that he will > blow an entire program just to get it done, not caring what he touches, and > I KNOW he knows it. He is truly sick of it all, and I cannot blame him. He > likes his hands (finds them fascinating for some reason, to glance at his > fingers), so we do one-to-one counting with fingers sometimes. He finds it > very reinforcing, and I get to teach him without him realizing we are > working. He was getting so frustrated with me and so frustrated with work > that I realized we had better stop and regroup before his behavior started > to slip away. > > I realized I had become an aversive certainly unintentionally and he was > working to get AWAY from me and get done, so now I go for the sneak attack, > quick answers, probing, and reward and done, bring him in again go for the > answers and try to use surprise tactics. I cut new pics out of magazines > and make things as different as possible, and as reinforcing as possible. > > I was finding that I could not reinvent myself to be that exciting and > rewarding end of the rainbow. Not working for a reward became more > reinforcing than the reward. He simply didn't care. There was no reward > big enough, no reinforcer more reinforcing than the simple reward he gave > himself of shutting me out or giving me incorrect answers to get me out of > his face. > > I think being the parent/therapist is a tough road. We, the parent, have > to deal with the kids 24/7 and we are human and cannot be " on " at all times > esp. if we have been up with this child during the night during a sleepless > week. I could not find a way to make myself that exciting, so I go now more > for the surprise tactics, and the quick in and out of a program. I get to > see what he knows, and he doesn't let his eyes glaze over with boredom. > > I think all kids get to somewhat of this stage at some point, and I dropped > out of the program for a couple of weeks, just to try to reinvent the way I > wanted to present myself to him. We as parents don't get to leave in the > afternoon, regroup and come back refreshed, we are always there and I think > it's difficult to always be eager, bright and fresh, but his little hiatus > has helped. > > I have also reached a point, where I am not in a full fevered pitch all the > time. I talk to him constantly I review what he knows as much as humanly > possible, but I am simply not going to be able to maintain a good > relationship with him as my son if I am intent on every waking minute > shoving information in his head, he will truly dislike me, and I don't want > that. > > What really brought this home was watching him with a good family friend, > who makes no demands on him. My son will sit lovingly with him, right next > to him, and bring his books etc, stay close and seem so relaxed. I realize > if that were me sitting there I would feel the need to quiz him " What are > you doing? Tell me what you see? How many? " and on and on. I need to shut > down the therapist and just be his mother if I ever expect him to willingly > sit with me happily not being worried that I will quiz him every waking hour. > > So, that's where we are in our programming, move ahead, but moving ahead > with more thought and respect to his ability to do this every day without > becoming frustrated/bored and anxious. > > Cate > > > > > > VISIT www./community/ for informative FILES, LINKS page, and ARCHIVE searches. You will need your password for egroups to use these services. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 enochacres wrote: Hello. I'm new and just read some of the posts. There is one person who is afraid of doing the flush and who wants more than just testimonials about the safety. --------------------------------- I'm sorry, but you have your HTML switched on for your outoging emails so my reply is going to look like it was part of your "fear" message. Sorry, but I can't figure how to get around it. Anyway, what is there to fear? When I felt fear building before my first flush, someone talked me out of it by comparing a liver flush to a toilet flush. They suggested I think about taking a tablespoon of oil. A tablespoon didn't spook me at all. They then said, "That is about as pouring a cup of water into a toilet---little happens and the nasty stays in there. They then suggested I think about an ounce of oil---again that seemed OK. The toilet analogy came up again and they said I should compare an ounce of oil to pouring a quart of water into the toilet---not much would happen as far as flushing. Finally, they led me up to 4 ounces of oil and said that would be the equivalent of pulling the toilet flush handle. The nasties would surely easily go down the drain. The Epson salts addition seemed like no big deal---my mother had used that as a laxative on me before. However, I was surprised to be told that the magnesium in the Epson caused the bile ducts to dilate so nothing could get stuck. I later re-read Hulda's book and noticed where she said something like, "Thank you, Epson Salts." When I reviewed the above and compared it to that god-awful sickness and puking that gallstones bring, there was no fear and no doubt. If so many thousands of others had gained permanent relief and escaped the surgeon's knife, what was there for me to fear? Again, I apologize for not being able to overcome the HTML code your computer is sending but I figured you may care to hear my thoughts. Regards, Rex Harrill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Christiane; As far as I know there have been no reports of anyone having "died" because of doing a liver and gallbladder flush. Too bad the medical community can't say the same regarding the operations they've done. That's the main reason I did it when I was having to deal with the exstreme pain of a gallbladder attack. However, I never got to know just how large my stones were until they came out and I measured them. I've posted six of my stones for all to see here at our online site in the Files. A 1 cm stone is like a midget to me compared to some I've passed. The 1.7 cm that you see on the Files page isn't the largest I'd passed. I don't know of anyone else to tell you how safe the flush is, but then too, I can't say the operation to have a gallbladder removed is all that safe either, regardless of what you're told by doctors. The main reason is because there could be other problems of which the gallbladder's gallstones are just symptomatic. All we try to do here is to encourage those who are considering a flush to consider the results we've had here. I can't recall anyone on this list who's had any real extreme trouble with doing a flush. There are those that have had trouble with getting down the Epsom Salts and then the oil and fruit concoction, but other than that there have only been a couple that feel they may have had a stuck stone, but more oil along with a castor oil pack seems to have done the trick. Consider my case as an example. I had two gallbladder attacks within three days in February of 1999. With the first one I got an X-ray done but it showed no problems. The next was a CT scan that showed I had a thickened gallbladder and "A" stone, the size of which I could never ascertain. So, I could only assume it was BIG. I then started searching, like yourself, for an answer from off the internet. I found enough information to feel I could do as so many have done before me, without the medical communities assurance it was a safe alternative to surgery. It ain't going to happen !!! And that's the simplest of facts. I've been declared free of stones by the medical community that declared me to have "A" stone. In October of 1999, just seven months after my first attack, I had an ultrasound done during another of what I thought was a gallbladder attack, but was actually a liver attack because it was being destroyed because of my avoidance of all fats, including the essential ones to stop having gallbladder attacks. I learned that there is a strong reason to believe the gallstones don't start in the gallbladder, but do start in the liver. So, after having read Dr. Cabot's book "The Liver Cleansing Diet" I started living a lot differently and eating a lot of foods that contain the types of fats the body needs for the liver's well being. Foods good for the liver's well being are also good for the whole of the body, and that's a fact with which even the medical community will agree. So, you want someone to hold your hand and tell you that it's perfectly safe to a flush, right? And that there is no possibility of anything going wrong? I don't think this is even going to happen if you get surgery. In fact !!! I'll just bet that before you can get surgery you'll have to sign lots of paper relieving the hospital and the doctor of any liability for leaving and instrument or sponge in your body cavity, which could cause some other serious problems, or for any related infections you may get while in their "care" in the hospital. Just think about that, or better yet, go to the hospital and get copies of the papers you'll have to sign before they will do invasive surgery on your body. The liver and gallbladder flush is a whole lot less invasive and costs a whole lot less. If at the least you change your diet by avoiding all coagulate (saturated) fats or hydrogenated (heated) fats you can do your gallbladder a lot of good, and it may in time, without you even realizing it happens, flush stones because of the better diet with more EFAs. The biggest price you'll pay for this is gaining better over all health. DaleDa_@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 This is just to help encourage the flush before surgery. Use the Edit/Find function of your browser to get right to the topic of Gallbladder; http://www.sesc.org/surgeon/1099abs.htm http://www.morganweisbrod.com/verdict.htm http://www.obgyn.net/english/pubs/features/els-104-wht.htm http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/gastro/archive/4537.html Out of my search I didn't find one case of a person doing a flush and having a problem. My search was using the words; gallstones death died gallbladder. Now I think that a flush would have accomplished much the same as this situation but with a lot less invasiveness yet. http://www.csen.com/anesthesia/cabraj.htm So, with just this little bit of information I hope you can feel a little bit more secure in what ever decision you should decide to take. I didn't have a support group as this from which to access pre-flush information, but still did it because I trust the medical community less than my own judgment. I work in construction and have worked for a number of doctors over the years. To me, a person that does surgery should have some basic capacity for construction to at least be able to swing a hammer and put something together. I've found some doctors to be every bit capable of doing that and quite skillfully. So, should you consider surgery, consider getting a doctor who can do more than just doctoring. I think you'll have a better chance, and especially if you get a chance to see some of his handiwork. Some just bury their mistakes and move on to the next. DaleDa_@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 << http://www.sesc.org/surgeon/1099abs.htm >> ************************ That's some pretty interesting stuff you got there, Dale. I told everyone this before, but I knew a very young lady who had the laparoscopic GB surgery, and somehow she started leaking bile into her abdomen. Well, it got worse, she couldn't eat nothing and she was turning yellow and in lots of pain. She had to be taken to a large hospital where she stayed in ICU for some time, and then had to have another surgery to repair their screw up. See, things like this happen. She almost died. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 In a message dated 5/22/01 7:30:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Da_@... writes: I've posted six of my stones for all to see here at our online site in the Files Hi, Can you give me the exact web address of the Files page? I'd love to see all these photos. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 >>To me, a person that does surgery should have some basic capacity for >>construction to at least be able to swing a hammer and put something >>together<< Dale, My surgeon did a lot of the plumbing (volunteer) for the Community Music School, and was the one they called on for years in the middle of the night if there was a problem with the heating, plumbing, etc.. I just thought that was interesting, considering your comment. Debra _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 gallstones/files/Gallstones.jpg DaleDa_@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Nixhiv@... gallstones Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Fear In a message dated 5/22/01 7:30:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Da_@... writes: I've posted six of my stones for all to see here at our online site in the FilesHi, Can you give me the exact web address of the Files page? I'd love to see all these photos. J. Collected testimonials:http:///messages/gallstones-testimonialsYou are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the Gallstones group on 's groups. Post message: gallstones Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe URL to this page: gallstones By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!List Archives: http:///messages/gallstonesWeb Site for more information: http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/http://www.liverdoctor.com/ http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Have a nice day ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 I am unable to find the online site you area speaking about. Do you have an address? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Nixhiv@... [mailto:Nixhiv@...] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:28 PM gallstones Subject: Re: Fear In a message dated 5/22/01 7:30:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Da_@... writes: I've posted six of my stones for all to see here at our online site in the Files Hi, Can you give me the exact web address of the Files page? I'd love to see all these photos. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 > I am unable to find the online site you area speaking about. Do you have an address? > When you're here: http:///messages/gallstones There is a Files on the menu next to the messages. Clicking it will get you here: gallstones/files/ Then clicking the file from Book_ed will get you here: gallstones/files/Gallstones.jpg Dale Da_@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 To fight fear, act. To increase fear—wait, put off, postpone.- J. Schwartz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.