Re: Re: Re: Crohn's Disease and mold

[Guest guest]

Hey Stuat,

In my very first sentence, I stated that I am not a physician. I think that should be adequete disclosure "to hold high standards of behaviour" of the matter. To interpret that I am saying a cold is the same as the flu would be to make the same "broad general conclusion" that you are citing as an error within my post. Where do you disclose your medical degree or lack there of, to be able to make this analogy?

Let me simplify my statement. Excessive mold and mycotoxin exposure are know to cause symptom in humans that are similar to autoimmune diseases. There is a growing body of evidence that many autoimmune diseases are caused by environmental factors. And...I am not a doctor.

Is that better?

WR

Sharon

Sharon,

Be very very careful with making such sweeping generalisations and associations especially when you state that you are not a physician.

Unless you know for certain that the biochemical process and clinical progression for each disease is the same then it verges on irresponsibility to make such statements.

It is akin to saying that the cold and the flu are the same because they are both caused by viruses. They are not the same. They have completely different causes. And medically they have different treatments and outcomes depending on the individual affected.

You just posted articles on lapses in scientific ethics in academia. So why is it ok for you to answer questions in which you are not qualified? When you require others to hold high standards of behaviour it would be fitting for you to do the same. No?

Stuart McCallum

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sharon for bringing this up as a discussion. I too am not a docor but a teacher very concerned about the connection of mold and particulates (from faulty ventilation systems and unventilated copy machines and printers) as they relate to what I am seeing, an increase in Fibromyalgia in school personnel. This too is an autoimmune-like condition that is rapidly popping up in indoor professions. In my school alone we now have 5-6 women diagnosed over the last five years. We may have students suffering from the same but they usually are diagnosed as depressed. No one wants to hear that it might be an environmental problem. That would mean money and politics. God forbid we go there. As the current trend continues for administration to cut recess in Middle Schools more and more students, as in my school, will get less and less fresh air. In the north that means less fresh air and less sunshine. Seasonal light disorder up here is very apparent. As parents I'm not sure you are aware of this trend.

I am not a docor and I am not a scientist but have the common sense and awareness to observe. If we don't share our thoughts on here where can we share them? Not everyone on here is a doctor or scientist writing articles for peer review. I will take suggestions and have an open mind but I learned along time ago that science changes and politics exists everywhere hampering progress, even in the world of science!

Sam

(taken from the Fibromyalgia Network (http://www.fmnetnews.com/ )

What is Fibromyalgia?Fibromyalgia (FM) is an increasingly recognized chronic pain illness characterized by widespread musculoskeletal aches, pain and stiffness, soft tissue tenderness, general fatigue and sleep disturbances. The most common sites of pain include the neck, back, shoulders, pelvic girdle and hands, but any body part can be involved. Fibromyalgia patients experience a range of symptoms of varying intensities that wax and wane over time.

Who is affected?

It is estimated that approximately 3-6% of the U.S. population has FM. Although a higher percentage of women of all ages and races are affected, it does strike men and children. Because of its debilitating nature, Fibromyalgia has a serious impact on patients' families, friends and employers, as well as society at large.

What are the symptoms?

FM is characterized by the presence of multiple tender points and a constellation of symptoms.

Pain:

The pain of FM is profound, widespread and chronic. It knows no boundaries, migrating to all parts of the body and varying in intensity. FM pain has been described as deep muscular aching, throbbing, twitching, stabbing and shooting pain that defines the very existence of the Fibromyalgia patient. Neurological complaints such as numbness, tingling and burning are often present and add to the discomfort of the patient. The severity of the pain and stiffness is often worse in the morning. Aggravating factors that affect pain include cold/humid weather, non-restorative sleep, physical and mental fatigue, excessive physical activity, physical inactivity, anxiety and stress.

Fatigue:

In today's world many people complain of fatigue; however, the fatigue of FM is much more than being tired. It is an all-encompassing exhaustion that interferes with even the simplest daily activities. It feels like every drop of energy has been drained from the body, which at times can leave the patient with a limited ability to function both mentally and physically.

Sleep Problems:

Many Fibromyalgia patients have an associated sleep disorder that prevents them from getting deep, restful, restorative sleep. Medical researchers have documented specific and distinctive abnormalities in the stage 4 deep sleep of FM patients. During sleep, individuals with FM are constantly interrupted by bursts of awake-like brain activity, limiting the amount of time they spend in deep sleep.

Other Symptoms:Additional symptoms may include: irritable bowel and bladder, headaches and migraines, restless legs syndrome (periodic limb movement disorder), impaired memory and concentration, skin sensitivities and rashes, dry eyes and mouth, anxiety, depression, ringing in the ears, dizziness, vision problems, Raynaud's Syndrome, neurological symptoms and impaired coordination.

How is it diagnosed?

Currently there are no laboratory tests available for diagnosing Fibromyalgia. Doctors must rely on patient histories, self-reported symptoms, a physical examination and an accurate manual tender point examination. This exam is based on the standardized ACR criteria. Proper implementation of the exam determines the presence of multiple tender points at characteristic locations.

It is estimated that it takes an average of five years for a FM patient to get an accurate diagnosis. Many doctors are still not adequately informed or educated about FM. Laboratory tests often prove negative and many FM symptoms overlap with those of other conditions, thus leading to extensive investigative costs and frustration for both the doctor and patient. Another essential point that must be considered is that the presence of other diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis or lupus, does not rule out a FM diagnosis. Fibromyalgia is not a diagnosis of exclusion and must be diagnosed by its own characteristic features.

To receive a diagnosis of FM, the patient must meet the following diagnostic criteria:

Widespread pain in all four quadrants of the body for a minimum duration of three months Tenderness or pain in at least 11 of the 18 specified tender points when pressure is applied (see figure above)

[Guest guest]

This is a prime example of how some people pervert the following

statement:

You can not go from the specific to the general only the general to the

specific.

> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:39:39 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Reply-To: iequality

> To: IEQuality group <iequality >

> Subject: Re: Re: Crohn's Disease and mold

>

> Sharon,

>

> Be very very careful with making such sweeping generalisations and

associations especially when you state that you are not a physician.

> Unless you know for certain that the biochemical process and clinical

progression for each disease is the same then it verges on irresponsibility to

make such statements.

> It is akin to saying that the cold and the flu are the same because they are

both caused by viruses. They are not the same. They have completely different

causes. And medically they have different treatments and outcomes depending on

the individual affected.

> You just posted articles on lapses in scientific ethics in academia. So why

is it ok for you to answer questions in which you are not qualified? When you

require others to hold high standards of behaviour it would be fitting for you

to do the same. No?

>

> Stuart McCallum

>

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

--------------------------------------------

> Message: 9

> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:46:07 EDT

> From: snk1955@...

> Subject: Re: Re: Crohn's Disease and mold

>

>

> Cassidy,

>

> I am not a physician, but I can answer that question. Autoimmune

> diseases are Type III Hypersensitivity Reactions. One of the more

> serious illnesses

> that people experience after excessive mold exposure, is

> Hypersensitivity

> Pneumonitis (HP). It to, is a Type III Hypersensitivity Reaction. In

> its

> advanced stages, the symptoms of HP are similar to many other Type

> III,

> autoimmune reactions.

>

> That's why you see so many mold victims being tested for the HIV virus

> which

> causes AIDS. What is AIDS? It is an acquired immune deficiency with

> a

> variety of symptoms similar to many autoimmune diseases or advanced HP

> brought on

> by excessive mold exposure.

>

> Basically, I think it would be correct to say, all are conditions that

> cause

> the body trouble because of the excessive increase in antibody

> production

> while trying to fight off whatever the antigen is. The term autoimmune

> disease

> implies the body is turning on itself. But, the evidence that

> illnesses such

> as Crohns, MS, Lupus, etc are actually environmentally induced

> illnesses is

> becoming stronger everyday. With mold, it is a given what is the

> antigen

> that is forcing the over production of antibodies.

>

> Sharon

>

>

" Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

Hosea Ballou

" Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

Pubilius Syrus

" Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

Angel

" If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and if,

knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take senseless and

frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the counsel of those

who tell us that we must fill our world with poisonous chemicals, we

should look around and see what other course is open to us. "

Carson

" My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

Judith Goode

[Guest guest]

Sharon, Indeed you did say that you were not a physician but you then went on to say that you could answer the question. Which implies a comparable knowledge and understanding. What qualifications or experience do you have to answer the question? (Which, btw, you didnt do. The questioner asked specifically about Crohns disease and mold and you gave an opinion.) I know that Im not qualified to answer the question and I worked in immunology research for a couple of years and even have papers in the field with my name on them. So I could argue that Im qualifed to respond. As for the cold/flu comment, I didnt say you said they were the same. I said the statement you made was "akin to" (like) saying they were the same. As for my qualifications for making my statement - I have been working in virology research for a year now (4 years exp in virology previously, 5 years total), with a heavy influence on

using influenza in my research. So I do know a little about the difference between colds and influenza. What gets me is that if I were to make the same kind of statement you made here to a client in my position as a mold remediator it would be considered at best unprofessional and at worst unethical possibly resulting in censure from the IAQA. But as you are not "in the business" but merely a "mold advocate" you can say whatever you want couched in the veneer of "knowledge" and suffer no recriminations. This type of opinion is no better than the peudo-scientific advertising of Ozonelite and its ilk. You frustrate me with your dogma. Please dont think I take this lightly - my brother in law has Crohns, I have a friend with lupus and another with diabetes and my father died from diabetes 18 months ago. Yet again I find myself ending another response to you wondering why I bothered and knowing I could have spent the time in more

fruitful endeavors. Stuart McCallum --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Stuat, In my very first sentence, I stated that I am not a physician. I think that should be adequete disclosure "to hold high standards of behaviour" of the matter. To interpret that I am saying a cold is the same as the flu would be to make the same "broad general conclusion" that you are citing as an error within my post. Where do you disclose your medical degree or lack there of, to be able to make this analogy? Let me simplify my statement. Excessive mold and mycotoxin exposure are know to cause symptom in humans that are similar to autoimmune diseases. There is a growing body of evidence that many

autoimmune diseases are caused by environmental factors. And...I am not a doctor. Is that better? WRSharon Sharon, Be very very careful with making such sweeping generalisations and associations especially when you state that you are not a physician.Unless you know for certain that the biochemical process and clinical progression for each disease is the same then it verges on irresponsibility to make such statements.It is akin to saying that the cold and the flu are the same because they are both caused by viruses. They are not the same. They have completely different causes. And

medically they have different treatments and outcomes depending on the individual affected.You just posted articles on lapses in scientific ethics in academia. So why is it ok for you to answer questions in which you are not qualified? When you require others to hold high standards of behaviour it would be fitting for you to do the same. No? Stuart McCallum