Re: Horse Feed for Ruminants

[Guest guest]

Basically in most countries horse feeds are allowed to contain animal

byproducts. I think it is gross. Horses do not naturally eat this in my

opinion but the govts are still allowing it. Therefore questions of the

feed company might be necessary.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

Horse Feed for Ruminants

> Could you tell us more please? I know horses are only quasi-ruminants

> (3 stomachs not 4) but I have never looked into what was in their feed.

> Just curious.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Careful of horse grain feed. It can contain items that you really

> don't want to feed to a ruminant.

>

> Debbie Chikousky

>

I am sorry I am late on this but I didn't see it before.

Ruminants have 1 stomach with 4 compartments.

Cattle,sheep,deer,goats,and giraffes.

Horses only have 1 compartment. They aren't ruminants at all.

Ruminants cud and horses don't.

[Guest guest]

Horses have 3 compartments but are missing the rumen.

> >

> > Careful of horse grain feed. It can contain items that you

really

> > don't want to feed to a ruminant.

> >

> > Debbie Chikousky

> >

> I am sorry I am late on this but I didn't see it before.

> Ruminants have 1 stomach with 4 compartments.

> Cattle,sheep,deer,goats,and giraffes.

> Horses only have 1 compartment. They aren't ruminants at all.

> Ruminants cud and horses don't.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually they only have one stomach but most of their digestion is done in the small intesten and  cecum.  They are what is known as hind gut digesters - more similar to bunnies then to cows or goats.  Here is a link:  http://ohioline.osu.edu/b762/b762_5.htmlAlizaRe: Horse Feed for RuminantsPosted by: "Charity " Charity@...   harrisfamilyfarmsWed Nov 8, 2006 6:00 am (PST)Horses have 3 compartments but are missing the rumen. > >> > Could you tell us more please? I know horses are only quasi-> ruminants > > (3 stomachs not 4) but I have never looked into what was in their > feed. > > Just curious. 

[Guest guest]

Charity, You might want to call your vet.We have had horses for many .many years and I can tell you they have one stomach with one compartment. They are not ruminents. If you don't have a horse vet then feel free to call mine. .

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Guest guest]

Horse feed can have too much molasses in it for goats and can have too

high a copper content (dangerous to sheep, especially to wool sheep.)

Cows don't mind either molasses or copper and goats only dislike the

consistancy of the high molasses content. The copper level is ok for

both cows and goats, but not for the sheep.

Aside from that, it's actually going to be held to a higher standard

for mycotoxin and aflotoxin contamimation because horses are much more

intolerant of any of these contaminants.

What you have to take care about is allowing horses any access to feed

formulated for ruminants due to possible problems with ionphores and

urea. Both are toxic to horses. Read the labels as it will be on

there if feed contains either one. I never used feeds for my

ruminants that contained either one, because I always had horses. And,

they are also toxic to dogs, so always had LGD or the BCs.

Also, technically, there is now strict rules about what can go

into 'ruminant' feeds versus what goes into 'non-ruminant' feeds.

But, all the horse feeds I have ever used (and I use to manage a horse

farm with +65 head, so that's a LOT of feed!) was always a grain based

ration.

Vets really don't know much about nutrition or feed formulations aside

from basics. They are all about 'fixing' sick animals, that's there

expertise. It's your rumenant nutritionest that will be able to

really help you out. Most larger feed companies have them on staff

and free for customers to consult. Also, your state's agricultural

colleges and universities have them and again, are free to consult.

And, don't forget your county agriculture extension agent as they

often have resources for you to consult, again, most are free of

charge.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> Charity,

> You might want to call your vet.We have had horses for

many .many years and I can tell you they have one stomach with one

compartment. They are not ruminents.

> If you don't have a horse vet then feel free to call mine. 715-

342-1212.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

>

[Guest guest]

I was only " parroting' from one of my books that called them " quasi-

ruminants " because of three compartments used in the digestive process.

Technically, all animals have ONE stomach! It's the number of

compartments or the number of non-stomach areas. Non- " quasi-ruminants "

only use the one compartment of their one stomach. I'm still correct

that horses use 3 areas, I only misinterpreted that 2 of them were

inside the stomach when they are not.

Besides, If I say that I don't know anything about horse nutrition and

am asking for guidance - I think that means I don't know much about the

inside of he horse. (Even when I did have horses at age 15, all I did

was Barrel Race and train, my aunt bought the feed - I just fed what I

was told).

aliza wrote:

>

> Actually they only have one stomach but most of their digestion is

> done in the small intesten and cecum. They are what is known as

> hind gut digesters - more similar to bunnies then to cows or goats.

[Guest guest]

I never said they were ruminents. I called them quasi-ruminents.

Bice wrote:

>

> Charity,

> You might want to call your vet. We have had horses for

many .many years and I can tell you they have one stomach with one

compartment. They are not ruminents.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for somebody finally answering my question!

" Donna R. Myers-Raybon " wrote:

>

> Horse feed can have too much molasses in it for goats and can have

too

> high a copper content (dangerous to sheep, especially to wool

sheep.)

> Cows don't mind either molasses or copper and goats only dislike

the

> consistancy of the high molasses content. The copper level is ok

for

> both cows and goats, but not for the sheep.

> Aside from that, it's actually going to be held to a higher

standard

> for mycotoxin and aflotoxin contamimation because horses are much

more

> intolerant of any of these contaminants.

> What you have to take care about is allowing horses any access to

feed

> formulated for ruminants due to possible problems with ionphores

and

> urea. Both are toxic to horses. Read the labels as it will be on

> there if feed contains either one. I never used feeds for my

> ruminants that contained either one, because I always had horses.

And,

> they are also toxic to dogs, so always had LGD or the BCs.

> Also, technically, there is now strict rules about what can go

> into 'ruminant' feeds versus what goes into 'non-ruminant' feeds.

> But, all the horse feeds I have ever used (and I use to manage a

horse

> farm with +65 head, so that's a LOT of feed!) was always a grain

based

> ration.

> Vets really don't know much about nutrition or feed formulations

aside

> from basics. They are all about 'fixing' sick animals, that's

there

> expertise. It's your rumenant nutritionest that will be able to

> really help you out. Most larger feed companies have them on staff

> and free for customers to consult. Also, your state's agricultural

> colleges and universities have them and again, are free to

consult.

> And, don't forget your county agriculture extension agent as they

> often have resources for you to consult, again, most are free of

> charge.

>

> Donna

> Safehaven Nubians

> Dandridge, TN

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Charity,

> > You might want to call your vet. We have had horses for

> many .many years and I can tell you they have one stomach with one

> compartment. They are not ruminents.

>

I wrote about this in the first place to give you a heads up and to

let you know that you were mistaken. I did not write about it to argue

with you and I will not do so now.

There is no such thing as a quasi-ruminent. An animal is either a

ruminent or it isn't and a horse is not.

[Guest guest]

You are very welcome.

There is a lot of good info out there about the biochemistry of

nutrition. Basically you just need to start somewhere and educate

yourself. I have been very blessed to always find good people who

were very willing to let me 'pick' their brain LOL.

One of them was the nutritionest for Tennessee Farmers Coop,

Landon Backus. He has through the years really saved me a lot of

heartache and a lot of money. The lessons he taught me were that the

ruminant's stomach and feet are directly connected to one another.

Most interesting of all, he has really pounded the fact home that

ruminants were nothing more than walking bacterial vats which those

bacteria had genetically engineered into lovely homes for

themselves. You feed the 'bugs', not the cow/goat.

Another one are my dear friends, Albert and Celeste Blackburn.

They have over the years allowed me and dh to become a part of their

family and enjoy many of the priveleges of living on a working dairy

farm. Their dedication and common sense to cow care has been an

inspiration to me.

Be honest, openminded and willing to learn and you too will find

those wonderful teachers/friends when you need them! Good luck and

keep in touch. Glad I have passed along some of what was so freely

given to me.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

> >

> > Horse feed can have too much molasses in it for goats and can

have

> too

> > high a copper content (dangerous to sheep, especially to wool

> sheep.)

> > Cows don't mind either molasses or copper and goats only dislike

> the

> > consistancy of the high molasses content. The copper level is ok

> for

> > both cows and goats, but not for the sheep.

> > Aside from that, it's actually going to be held to a higher

> standard

> > for mycotoxin and aflotoxin contamimation because horses are much

> more

> > intolerant of any of these contaminants.

> > What you have to take care about is allowing horses any access to

> feed

> > formulated for ruminants due to possible problems with ionphores

> and

> > urea. Both are toxic to horses. Read the labels as it will be

on

> > there if feed contains either one. I never used feeds for my

> > ruminants that contained either one, because I always had horses.

> And,

> > they are also toxic to dogs, so always had LGD or the BCs.

> > Also, technically, there is now strict rules about what can go

> > into 'ruminant' feeds versus what goes into 'non-ruminant'

feeds.

> > But, all the horse feeds I have ever used (and I use to manage a

> horse

> > farm with +65 head, so that's a LOT of feed!) was always a grain

> based

> > ration.

> > Vets really don't know much about nutrition or feed formulations

> aside

> > from basics. They are all about 'fixing' sick animals, that's

> there

> > expertise. It's your rumenant nutritionest that will be able to

> > really help you out. Most larger feed companies have them on

staff

> > and free for customers to consult. Also, your state's

agricultural

> > colleges and universities have them and again, are free to

> consult.

> > And, don't forget your county agriculture extension agent as they

> > often have resources for you to consult, again, most are free of

> > charge.

> >

> > Donna

> > Safehaven Nubians

> > Dandridge, TN

>