Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yep, I love it! That video does correspond very well with my current way of thinking. I believe one source for artery damage is inhaled. I believe its a contributing reason why heart attacks were so bad in the 50's and 60's during the smog decades. And one of the reasons heart attacks declined after 1970 as both emissions and smoking declined. I also believe China's rising air pollution problem is the underlying reason behind its drastic increase in heart disease. Same goes for Russia and the eastern Europe countries that border the former Soviet Union. I give ZERO credit to statin drugs on saving people from heart attacks. I give more credit to EGR valves and catalytic converters installed on cars, industry cleaning up its act, decline in smoking rates,etc.I believe inhaling toxic by-products from combustion causes vascular damage leading to atherosclerosis, heart attack and stroke. Bobby Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:11 AM Subject: Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 " What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 >>> I give ZERO credit to statin drugs on saving people from heart attacks.<<<Totally agree - there is no real research which found that statins did anything except cause side effects and bring billions of bucks of profit to the manufacturers. That these drugs are still available is shameful, in my book. * for sharing this - great video - I sure agree with the doctor.... -- best,Suehttp://healthread.netWeight loss video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 There is about 250 to 300 MG of cholesterol in an egg. You know what that tells me? It takes 250-300 MG of cholesterol to build a new chick, which weighs only ounces. So How much is needed to build and repair cells in a 180 lb adult? How much is needed to keep our brain and neurological system functioning? How much is needed to maintain hormonal balance? I think the answer depends on the body's needs for cholesterol at that time. We have a built-in feedback system which tells the body to produce more cholesterol, but its not fully understood. Yet I fully understand what happens when we disrupt the liver's ability to produce cholesterol. All Hell can break lose and the body begins to fall apart. Bobby Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 What is interesting about the OTHER presenter is that he doesn't explain WHY we only need a "small" amount of cholesterol, when it is such an essential component of good health. Cholesterol is required for everything from healthy cell walls, skin (collagen), many hormones, brain matter, etc. My understanding is that it is a basic carrier of essential nutrients in our bloodstream. Yet, he claims we need only a "little". I'd like to know what information this claim is based on. My personal experience is of multiple, debilitating effects resulting from a cholesterol shortage at so called "normal" serum cholesterol levels. Let's face it, no one knows exactly how much cholesterol any one person needs at any point in time. These kind of unsubstantiated claims are very misleading.Dave. "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I Agree 100% with Dave. Well said. Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque What is interesting about the OTHER presenter is that he doesn't explain WHY we only need a "small" amount of cholesterol, when it is such an essential component of good health. Cholesterol is required for everything from healthy cell walls, skin (collagen), many hormones, brain matter, etc. My understanding is that it is a basic carrier of essential nutrients in our bloodstream. Yet, he claims we need only a "little". I'd like to know what information this claim is based on. My personal experience is of multiple, debilitating effects resulting from a cholesterol shortage at so called "normal" serum cholesterol levels. Let's face it, no one knows exactly how much cholesterol any one person needs at any point in time. These kind of unsubstantiated claims are very misleading.Dave. "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Exactly.Merry Christmas, all.Dave. There is about 250 to 300 MG of cholesterol in an egg. You know what that tells me? It takes 250-300 MG of cholesterol to build a new chick, which weighs only ounces. So How much is needed to build and repair cells in a 180 lb adult? How much is needed to keep our brain and neurological system functioning? How much is needed to maintain hormonal balance? I think the answer depends on the body's needs for cholesterol at that time. We have a built-in feedback system which tells the body to produce more cholesterol, but its not fully understood. Yet I fully understand what happens when we disrupt the liver's ability to produce cholesterol. All Hell can break lose and the body begins to fall apart. Bobby Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 This was a great video to watch. I feel I need as much cholesterol as I make. When I took Zocor and my total was 167, I felt the worst I have ever felt in my life, and I was not yet 50 years old. I took 10mg of Zocor for over 6 years from age 45 to age 50. My aches and pains started within 3 months, although I didn't know the statin was causing this. It was blamed on my job or that I was getting older, which a rheumatologist told me, and which I took as very insulting from this 30 something female doctor. If they hadn't lowered the levels from 240, my total of 221 tested in August would not require medication. This and an LDL of 142, and being a diabetic, prompted my doc to again push me to take a statin. I agreed to try an older drug, which I thought wouldn't be as strong. I tried 20 mg of Pravastatin and felt horrible within 2 weeks, I stopped without calling my doctor. I feel my levels are where they should be and my body makes what it needs to repair my muscles and manufacture the hormones I need. The only reason I feel that I am told my LDL and Total are too high is that the recommended levels have been lowered to sell more drugs and are just that--lowered to levels that are not possible without taking statins to sell more to make the drug companies rich. I won't do it again. I would like to know what my C-reactive protein is, but if I ask for the test, my doctor would want to know where I read about that on the internet. He hates me doing my own research about statin damage on the internet. I think he thinks I should blindly take anything he recommends. I have had side effects from Zocor, tendonitis from Levaquin, and 30 lbs of fluid retention from taking Avandia for my diabetes. Also, itching from Tramadol I took for the pain from the Zocor, and also itching with no visible rash from Januvia and Onglyza, which are also for diabetes. The list of drugs I will no longer take gets bigger all the time. Connie > > >>> I give ZERO credit to statin drugs on saving people from heart > attacks.<<< > > Totally agree - there is no real research which found that statins did > anything except cause side effects and bring billions of bucks of profit to > the manufacturers. That these drugs are still available is shameful, in my > book. > > * om/watch?v=NLydSZKYs4M & feature=related*> > > Thanks for sharing this - great video - I sure agree with the doctor.... > > -- > > best, > Sue > http://healthread.net > Weight loss video: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 You don't suppose that our bodies themselves " know " how much our bodies need through our built-in physiological feedback loops?? What a concept! Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 merry Christmas Bobby, , Connie, , Mike, Ed, Jeff, Pete and everyone in our Group. Love and Best Wishes Pamela SP - joint moderator UK > > > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > > > Lee.... > > > -- > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Connie if you feel uncomfortable asking for blood test there are other alternatives such as http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/bloodspotkits.html Mike Re: Plaque This was a great video to watch. I feel I need as much cholesterol as I make. When I took Zocor and my total was 167, I felt the worst I have ever felt in my life, and I was not yet 50 years old. I took 10mg of Zocor for over 6 years from age 45 to age 50. My aches and pains started within 3 months, although I didn't know the statin was causing this. It was blamed on my job or that I was getting older, which a rheumatologist told me, and which I took as very insulting from this 30 something female doctor. If they hadn't lowered the levels from 240, my total of 221 tested in August would not require medication. This and an LDL of 142, and being a diabetic, prompted my doc to again push me to take a statin. I agreed to try an older drug, which I thought wouldn't be as strong. I tried 20 mg of Pravastatin and felt horrible within 2 weeks, I stopped without calling my doctor. I feel my levels are where they should be and my body makes what it needs to repair my muscles and manufacture the hormones I need. The only reason I feel that I am told my LDL and Total are too high is that the recommended levels have been lowered to sell more drugs and are just that--lowered to levels that are not possible without taking statins to sell more to make the drug companies rich. I won't do it again. I would like to know what my C-reactive protein is, but if I ask for the test, my doctor would want to know where I read about that on the internet. He hates me doing my own research about statin damage on the internet. I think he thinks I should blindly take anything he recommends. I have had side effects from Zocor, tendonitis from Levaquin, and 30 lbs of fluid retention from taking Avandia for my diabetes. Also, itching from Tramadol I took for the pain from the Zocor, and also itching with no visible rash from Januvia and Onglyza, which are also for diabetes. The list of drugs I will no longer take gets bigger all the time. Connie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hi Bob: the publicity folks at Simon and Schuster are interested in contacting someone from the group about my statin book - any suggestions? Galleys will be available soon - they are trying to get me on some of the big talk shows. Fingers and toes crossed. Thanks, Barbara ---- Olson wrote: There is about 250 to 300 MG of cholesterol in an egg. You know what that tells me? It takes 250-300 MG of cholesterol to build a new chick, which weighs only ounces. So How much is needed to build and repair cells in a 180 lb adult? How much is needed to keep our brain and neurological system functioning?  How much is needed to maintain hormonal balance? I think the answer depends on the body's needs for cholesterol at that time.  We have a built-in feedback system which tells the body to produce more cholesterol, but its not fully understood. Yet I fully understand what happens when we disrupt the liver's ability to produce cholesterol. All Hell can break lose and the body begins to fall apart. Bobby    Alternate email:  marooned@... Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Planner www.pinkystravel.com   International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation Packages Philippine Destination Specialist ________________________________ To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque  " What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Barbara-- Your comment about chicks and cholesterol prompts me to say that I have a friend going in for abdominal surgery and another to receive radiation for brain cancer. To both, I am suggesting a high octane diet of sat fats, fermented foods, and cholesterol to build their stores of energy, gut flora, and tissue repair material before the assaults begin. > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > Lee.... > > -- > > > > > > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Barbara I suppose you want someone in the USA as Jeff Cable would be good in the UK, or Glyn. Pamela SP > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > Lee.... > > -- > > > > > > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks Pamela. Do you have contact info for them? BarbaraSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:45:00 -0000To: <TakingLipitorAndHateIt >ReplyTo: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Subject: Re: Plaque BarbaraI suppose you want someone in the USA as Jeff Cable would be good in the UK, or Glyn.Pamela SP > >> > Bobby: You're going to love this> >> > Lee....> > --> >> >> > * >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm sure we all wish you lots of luck with the book. It would be sooo nice if there was a recent book out there that I could direct people to read, rather than just articles on the internet! I want the whole world to know what happens to people that take statins! Adele To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Cc: Olson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque Hi Bob: the publicity folks at Simon and Schuster are interested in contacting someone from the group about my statin book - any suggestions? Galleys will be available soon - they are trying to get me on some of the big talk shows. Fingers and toes crossed. Thanks, Barbara ---- Olson wrote: There is about 250 to 300 MG of cholesterol in an egg. You know what that tells me? It takes 250-300 MG of cholesterol to build a new chick, which weighs only ounces. So How much is needed to build and repair cells in a 180 lb adult? How much is needed to keep our brain and neurological system functioning? How much is needed to maintain hormonal balance? I think the answer depends on the body's needs for cholesterol at that time. We have a built-in feedback system which tells the body to produce more cholesterol, but its not fully understood. Yet I fully understand what happens when we disrupt the liver's ability to produce cholesterol. All Hell can break lose and the body begins to fall apart. Bobby Alternate email: marooned@... Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Planner www.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation Packages Philippine Destination Specialist ________________________________ To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm in your cheering section Barbara. Talk shows would be fantastic. Both TV and radio. Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Cc: Olson Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque Hi Bob: the publicity folks at Simon and Schuster are interested in contacting someone from the group about my statin book - any suggestions? Galleys will be available soon - they are trying to get me on some of the big talk shows. Fingers and toes crossed. Thanks, Barbara ---- Olson wrote: There is about 250 to 300 MG of cholesterol in an egg. You know what that tells me? It takes 250-300 MG of cholesterol to build a new chick, which weighs only ounces. So How much is needed to build and repair cells in a 180 lb adult? How much is needed to keep our brain and neurological system functioning? How much is needed to maintain hormonal balance? I think the answer depends on the body's needs for cholesterol at that time. We have a built-in feedback system which tells the body to produce more cholesterol, but its not fully understood. Yet I fully understand what happens when we disrupt the liver's ability to produce cholesterol. All Hell can break lose and the body begins to fall apart. Bobby Alternate email: marooned@... Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Planner www.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation Packages Philippine Destination Specialist ________________________________ To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Re: Plaque "What is interesting is that this presenter is saying that your body needs lots of cholesterol and if you don't have enough you have other serious issues. On the other hand, there is another YouTube shown in the sidebar where another presenter is saying that your body only needs a small amount of cholesterol and beyond that it's harmful. (I clicked that one off at that point.) At least there is a debate growing..although it's going to get nastier before the truth becomes apparent. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Jack, I was the one that made the comments about the Chicks. Somehow it all got run together in the posting with no white space between Barbara's comments and mine, making it all look like it came from one person. Oh well, stuff happens.Bobby Alternate email: marooned@...Bobby- Your Caribbean Travel Plannerwww.pinkystravel.com International Destinations, Resorts, Vacation PackagesPhilippine Destination Specialist To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:31 AM Subject: Re: Plaque Barbara-- Your comment about chicks and cholesterol prompts me to say that I have a friend going in for abdominal surgery and another to receive radiation for brain cancer. To both, I am suggesting a high octane diet of sat fats, fermented foods, and cholesterol to build their stores of energy, gut flora, and tissue repair material before the assaults begin. > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > Lee.... > > -- > > > > > > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 You might try Dr. Graveline, he has spoken about this many times on local shows and in front of congress (I think) and as an author of 3 books on this subject is very well versed. > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > Lee.... > > -- > > > > > > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Radio might be better than TV, even; the audience for much of talk radio is more likely to listen to something that is not politically correct. Try Medved, Mike Gallagher, Dennis , maybe and Ken at KFI Los Angeles. Interesting to see what reaction I'll get from a Facebook post I just did--a friend said something about cholestrol, so I commented that it was actually good for you. Might have an opportunity to post some references. Linden Re: Plaque It's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's might understand this Pamela > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > Lee.... > -- > > > * > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks for all the suggestions. Will forward them to the publisher. BRSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:41:53 -0500 (EST)To: <TakingLipitorAndHateIt >ReplyTo: TakingLipitorAndHateIt Subject: Re: Re: Plaque Radio might be better than TV, even; the audience for much of talk radio is more likely to listen to something that is not politically correct. Try Medved, Mike Gallagher, Dennis , maybe and Ken at KFI Los Angeles.Interesting to see what reaction I'll get from a Facebook post I just did--a friend said something about cholestrol, so I commented that it was actually good for you. Might have an opportunity to post some references.Linden Re: PlaqueIt's fantastic - and in simplistic termes- even our Dr's mightunderstand this Pamela>> Bobby: You're going to love this>> Lee....> -->>> * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Happy New Year and everyone else in the group. I think would be a wonderful choice - don't know if he would do it though? .. pamela PS Hope you are feeling better? Carlisle wrote: > > Although he isn't a member of this group, how about Dr. Langsjoen of > Tyler, TX? As a cardiologist who treats patients who've been harmed by statins, > he's an expert on the subject and an outspoken critic of statins. Right, > Pamela?! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: TakingLipitorAndHateIt > Sent: Fri, December 30, 2011 5:33:09 AM > Subject: Re: Re: Plaque > > > Thanks Pamela. Do you have contact info for them? Barbara > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > ________________________________ > > > Sender: TakingLipitorAndHateIt > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:45:00 -0000 > To: <TakingLipitorAndHateIt > > ReplyTo: TakingLipitorAndHateIt > Subject: Re: Plaque > > > Barbara > > I suppose you want someone in the USA as Jeff Cable would be good in the UK, or > Glyn. > Pamela SP > > > > > > > Bobby: You're going to love this > > > > > > Lee.... > > > -- > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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