New to the Group

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group. My daughter too has a huge head that they were worried

about in utero but kept saying everything would be okay. They finally diagnosed

her with PMG at 6 weeks old. Her head too just continues to grow but so far we

have been very blessed to not have to have a shunt put in. She now is 14 months

old and is not crawling either. She is showing all the signs that she wants to

but just can't figure out how to get her body to do it. She also has hypotonia.

Her head now measures 54 1/2 cm which is bigger than both my 6 and 7 year old

boys. My best advice for you is Early Intervention they have helped her to make

huge strides in her development. They always point out those things that shoud

be obvious but don't seem to be. I am so thankful they have been here helping

her. We have sent her films off to Dr Dobynns but have not got much feedback

back yet. Just hang in there and take one day at a time This group is a huge

help.

Cassey

Mom to Emma 14 months with bilateral PMG

gotrevin wrote:

We have a 13 month old son who was diagnosed with PMG at birth. He

also has megalencephaly (large head and brain) which they caught on

U/S in utero but didn't think was a problem. He was 11 lbs. 5 oz at

birth. He has been hypotonic since birth and is not even close to

crawling yet. Our local drs have mainly been looking for an overgrowth

syndrome because of his size, but his height and weight have slowed

considerably since 8 months but his head keeps growing. He was on

Phenobarbitol for 4 months bc of a questionable seizure the day he was

born, then in January he had another seizure (partial complex) and an

EEG showed more seizure activity (not the kind visible to the eye) so

is now on Keppra. We are looking for anyone with similar issues and

wondering where we should " go " next? Also, anyone with experience with

Dr Dobyn's in Chicago? Any other experts in this area that you know of?

Anyone know of anything that " helps " the hypotonia? Like a med? Also

our son has a terrible time staying asleep during the night...still....

Thanks much.

[Guest guest]

Wow, your daughter is very similar to my son! Just a couple weeks

ago we had his one year appt and his head was 55 cm. We also have

two older children and his head is bigger than theirs.

Has your daughter had any seizures? Has Dobyn's replied to you

anything about an MPPH syndrome he is newly investigating? He just

sent us an article attached to his email response from the first MRI

Trevin had done awhile back. We just had a new MRI and Dobyn's is

supposed to be looking at that. Does your daughter sleep well at

night? Sorry so many questions. Thanks for replying to my first post.

Amy

> We have a 13 month old son who was diagnosed with PMG at birth.

He

> also has megalencephaly (large head and brain) which they caught

on

> U/S in utero but didn't think was a problem. He was 11 lbs. 5 oz

at

> birth. He has been hypotonic since birth and is not even close to

> crawling yet. Our local drs have mainly been looking for an

overgrowth

> syndrome because of his size, but his height and weight have

slowed

> considerably since 8 months but his head keeps growing. He was on

> Phenobarbitol for 4 months bc of a questionable seizure the day he

was

> born, then in January he had another seizure (partial complex) and

an

> EEG showed more seizure activity (not the kind visible to the eye)

so

> is now on Keppra. We are looking for anyone with similar issues

and

> wondering where we should " go " next? Also, anyone with experience

with

> Dr Dobyn's in Chicago? Any other experts in this area that you

know of?

> Anyone know of anything that " helps " the hypotonia? Like a med?

Also

> our son has a terrible time staying asleep during the

night...still....

> Thanks much.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No problem about the questions we have tons of them also although most of them

have no answers. We hadn't seen any seizures with her until just about a month

ago. She woke up screaming one night and when I went in to check on her she was

having one and then she did the same thing about two nights later. We just got

the results back from her EEG and they are abnormal but the her neuro said not

bad enough to put her on meds. So, we are just watching and waiting.

Dr Dobynns did mention MPPH in his last email he sent to me. HE wanted us to

get some bloodwork done and send some pictures. We are supposed to be getting

another MRI done in the next few months so hopefully that will help him further.

No my daughter does not sleep well. She does goe to bed easy and usuall will

stay there all night but she wakes up screaming at least once every two hours.

Usually she will self soothe and go back to sleep and other times we have to go

in and calm her. Where are you located we would love to meet you? Hope this

helps.

Cassey

Mom to Emma bilateral PMG

gotrevin wrote:

Wow, your daughter is very similar to my son! Just a couple weeks

ago we had his one year appt and his head was 55 cm. We also have

two older children and his head is bigger than theirs.

Has your daughter had any seizures? Has Dobyn's replied to you

anything about an MPPH syndrome he is newly investigating? He just

sent us an article attached to his email response from the first MRI

Trevin had done awhile back. We just had a new MRI and Dobyn's is

supposed to be looking at that. Does your daughter sleep well at

night? Sorry so many questions. Thanks for replying to my first post.

Amy

> We have a 13 month old son who was diagnosed with PMG at birth.

He

> also has megalencephaly (large head and brain) which they caught

on

> U/S in utero but didn't think was a problem. He was 11 lbs. 5 oz

at

> birth. He has been hypotonic since birth and is not even close to

> crawling yet. Our local drs have mainly been looking for an

overgrowth

> syndrome because of his size, but his height and weight have

slowed

> considerably since 8 months but his head keeps growing. He was on

> Phenobarbitol for 4 months bc of a questionable seizure the day he

was

> born, then in January he had another seizure (partial complex) and

an

> EEG showed more seizure activity (not the kind visible to the eye)

so

> is now on Keppra. We are looking for anyone with similar issues

and

> wondering where we should " go " next? Also, anyone with experience

with

> Dr Dobyn's in Chicago? Any other experts in this area that you

know of?

> Anyone know of anything that " helps " the hypotonia? Like a med?

Also

> our son has a terrible time staying asleep during the

night...still....

> Thanks much.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Both my son and daughter are being diagnosed, or atleast they are thinking it's

pmg, by Dr. Dobyns. He is an incredible person. We have been trying to figure

out what is going on with the kids for the last 2 years and locally haven't had

much luck. Then we went to a Dr. Angle in chicago who wanted us to see Dr.

Dobyns. He is a very busy guy but he does try and keep in touch either himself

or his people doing research and what not will call you just to let you know

they are still working. We leave our appointments with him feeling as though we

will be getting answers soon and not like we are paying all these doctors who

are telling us nothing. From what I've seen and heard if there are people out

there who don't have a diagnosis that he is the man to see. Hang in there if

you haven't already you'll hear from him soon!!

Cassey Stanger wrote: Welcome to the group. My

daughter too has a huge head that they were worried about in utero but kept

saying everything would be okay. They finally diagnosed her with PMG at 6 weeks

old. Her head too just continues to grow but so far we have been very blessed to

not have to have a shunt put in. She now is 14 months old and is not crawling

either. She is showing all the signs that she wants to but just can't figure out

how to get her body to do it. She also has hypotonia. Her head now measures 54

1/2 cm which is bigger than both my 6 and 7 year old boys. My best advice for

you is Early Intervention they have helped her to make huge strides in her

development. They always point out those things that shoud be obvious but don't

seem to be. I am so thankful they have been here helping her. We have sent her

films off to Dr Dobynns but have not got much feedback back yet. Just hang in

there and take one day at a time This group is a huge

help.

Cassey

Mom to Emma 14 months with bilateral PMG

gotrevin wrote:

We have a 13 month old son who was diagnosed with PMG at birth. He

also has megalencephaly (large head and brain) which they caught on

U/S in utero but didn't think was a problem. He was 11 lbs. 5 oz at

birth. He has been hypotonic since birth and is not even close to

crawling yet. Our local drs have mainly been looking for an overgrowth

syndrome because of his size, but his height and weight have slowed

considerably since 8 months but his head keeps growing. He was on

Phenobarbitol for 4 months bc of a questionable seizure the day he was

born, then in January he had another seizure (partial complex) and an

EEG showed more seizure activity (not the kind visible to the eye) so

is now on Keppra. We are looking for anyone with similar issues and

wondering where we should " go " next? Also, anyone with experience with

Dr Dobyn's in Chicago? Any other experts in this area that you know of?

Anyone know of anything that " helps " the hypotonia? Like a med? Also

our son has a terrible time staying asleep during the night...still....

Thanks much.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group! Number one thing I've learned (sort of) is,

when your body tells you to slow down, listen.

Sue

>

> I just wanted to introduce myself to ya'll.

>

> I was diagnosed recently with CFS/ME after two years of tests and

persistance. I am glad to learn there is a name for what I have, but

disappointed to learn it's CFS/ME as it is such a misunderstood illness.

>

> I am a mother of 3 daughters (6, 8 and 12). I am doing my best to

hold my family together like I used to, but it is not easy (big

understatement). Fortunately I have a very supportive and

understanding husband.

>

> I am very curious to learn about other people's experiences with

this illness as well as finding tips for coping. I have a lot of

symptoms that I am sure I share with others and, well, sometimes it's

just good to commiserate with people who understand.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Our son Daire is now nearly 5 (in June), he's always been bigger than

kids of the same age as we've a 7 year old and there's not much in it

height wise. Despite his height he's only 36lbs in weight.

His head has been monitored closely during every clinic visit as they

are unsure if its due to his PMG or due to genetics - as my fathers

side of family would tend to have larger heads than normal (inc

myself). Medical term is Macroencephaly.

Daire has Bilateral Frontpartial PMG, he's got mixed tone, mainly

hypertonia. I had polyhydramnious at 36 weeks (where by ammniotic

fluid is not released as it should by the baby and so it builds up),

apparently a sign that things are not right, but nothing was done

about it. Daire was born by emergency C-section due to prolapsed

cord - when waters broke they gushed out bringing cord with it as

Daire was squashed up under my rib cage.

Daire is only learning to sit up now, still needs supervision, he

cant crawl, instead he rolls and wiggles his way across the floor.

Daires neurologist have queried seizures and have put him on Epilium,

despite EEG being clear, Ive also got apam supositories in case

he does have a seizure.

We're looking into going to see Dr Dobyns for him to review Daire,

as he's had the MRI and bloods sent to him. Daire seems to portray

(according to Genetisits here) a new strain of PMG, + they cant

explain why he has it - as he doesnt fit any criteria they have up to

now to explain it.

Daire had a sleep issue up till he was 3 then it disappeared. Is your

child congested or have trouble breathing = restricted/snoring as

this could be enought to wake him - I bought a humidifier and use it

whenever I feel he's caught up it works wonders, moistens the air

opens his airways seems to loosen secretions.

Hope this helps

, Daire & Co.

[Guest guest]

HI I have not posted in Forever, My son Pete (31/2 Billateral PMG) Sees

an intervention specialist 4 hours per week. They have done more for him

than anybody. I will send you their phone number and I am sure they

would love to speak with you. Pete sat up on his own at 9 months,

crawled at 13 months, says da da. He also had trachea-laryngamalacia.

He snored so loud we did a sleep study. His 02 sats were really dropping

at night. We had his tonsils and adenoids removed and now he is no

longer a snorer.

He does not walk but can pull himself to stand and walk along furniture.

Tell the parents that the only thing that is the same with these kids is

that they are all different. Signing has been wonderful for Pete. He

uses about 6 signs to communicate his needs.

D. Quintana

Director of Special Projects

Oakdale Heights Management Co

ext 1020 phone

cellular

Facsimile

People who accomplish most in this world are almost always " characters "

in the sense that they are not afraid to be themselves.

[Guest guest]

Are you in Placer County in California?

Quintana wrote:

HI I have not posted in Forever, My son Pete (31/2 Billateral PMG) Sees

an intervention specialist 4 hours per week. They have done more for him

than anybody. I will send you their phone number and I am sure they

would love to speak with you. Pete sat up on his own at 9 months,

crawled at 13 months, says da da. He also had trachea-laryngamalacia.

He snored so loud we did a sleep study. His 02 sats were really dropping

at night. We had his tonsils and adenoids removed and now he is no

longer a snorer.

He does not walk but can pull himself to stand and walk along furniture.

Tell the parents that the only thing that is the same with these kids is

that they are all different. Signing has been wonderful for Pete. He

uses about 6 signs to communicate his needs.

D. Quintana

Director of Special Projects

Oakdale Heights Management Co

ext 1020 phone

cellular

Facsimile

People who accomplish most in this world are almost always " characters "

in the sense that they are not afraid to be themselves.

[Guest guest]

I live in Arizona. You can email me privately, if you wish.

new to the group

Hi,

I am new to the group. I actually joined because I am a

Developmental Specialist/Support Coordinator in an Early

Intervention (birth-3) program. One of the kiddos I work with has

Frontal Bilatarel PMG. His parents currently do not have a computer

of their own, so I offered to join this group for them - to ask the

questions they have, plus the questions I have. I have been in this

position less than a year, and Gage is the first child I've worked

with who has PMG, so I don't know much about it. Gage just turned

one year old. He also has seizures (which they are working on

getting under control) and infantile spasms (which seem to have gone

away since being on ACTH). He also has Laryngotracheomalcia (a

floppy airway) and is hypertonic (high muscle tone, so he tends to

hold arms and legs stiff), and he wears a helmet for plagiocephaly.

They have been able to wean him off the ACTH, so far no infantile

spasms again. His mom has asked me to ask other parents when their

kids hit their developmental milestones - rolling, crawling, babbling

(he was starting to coo and babble, but since going on the meds for

seizures and spasms this has virtually gone away), sitting up and

holding head up stably? They are also hoping to find other families

in Arizona with a child with PMG that they can meet.

I would like to know how, I, as a support coordinator/Dev. Spec. who

only meets with the family twice a month can best support and

encourage this family? What has been most helpful to you as parents

from the " professionals " in your life?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

You mentioned this little boy having " plagiocephaly. "

My son is 3 years old and has pachygyria and cp. He

also has plagio but we were told that it is not severe

enough for him to wear a helmet. Does anyone know if

there is a connection between these problems with the

brain and plagio or does anyone else's child also have

plagio?

--- micha63 wrote:

> Hi,

> I am new to the group. I actually joined because I

> am a

> Developmental Specialist/Support Coordinator in an

> Early

> Intervention (birth-3) program. One of the kiddos I

> work with has

> Frontal Bilatarel PMG. His parents currently do not

> have a computer

> of their own, so I offered to join this group for

> them - to ask the

> questions they have, plus the questions I have. I

> have been in this

> position less than a year, and Gage is the first

> child I've worked

> with who has PMG, so I don't know much about it.

> Gage just turned

> one year old. He also has seizures (which they are

> working on

> getting under control) and infantile spasms (which

> seem to have gone

> away since being on ACTH). He also has

> Laryngotracheomalcia (a

> floppy airway) and is hypertonic (high muscle tone,

> so he tends to

> hold arms and legs stiff), and he wears a helmet for

> plagiocephaly.

> They have been able to wean him off the ACTH, so far

> no infantile

> spasms again. His mom has asked me to ask other

> parents when their

> kids hit their developmental milestones - rolling,

> crawling, babbling

> (he was starting to coo and babble, but since going

> on the meds for

> seizures and spasms this has virtually gone away),

> sitting up and

> holding head up stably? They are also hoping to find

> other families

> in Arizona with a child with PMG that they can meet.

> I would like to know how, I, as a support

> coordinator/Dev. Spec. who

> only meets with the family twice a month can best

> support and

> encourage this family? What has been most helpful to

> you as parents

> from the " professionals " in your life?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

With just onecw you will find you have lots of extra milk- you can feed it to the pigs, calves and shickens. You will have more then that-- you can make cheese- Oh so much work.

Good luck- cows are very friendly with great big personality..

Liz in NY

To: RawDairy From: ram0589@...Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:11:10 +0000Subject: New to the group

Hi! My name is Shirley, we live in northern Arkansas. We moved here from Ariz three years ago. Kids are all grown and gone. Wait a minute let me get a sip of coffee.....Okay lolWe have raised horses for years. We have trained them, shared them, showed them and rode them at home. I am tired of hay burners. I love my horses but really, what good are they if they are not working around the place which ours don't. I decided I want a milk cow. I've had raw milk long time ago. My folks had a milk cow.I want animals and poultry that will give back, milk, eggs, meat. I'm tired of pouring the money into animals that do nothing but look pretty. So I am on a quest in educating myself for having a milk cow. I found two forums, homestead today and keeping a family cow, they have been good sources for info.I know Ark don't allow selling raw cows milk, they say nothing about cow sharing. But the more I think of cow sharing the less I am interested in it. I need some help with this, what are the pros and cons? I have a neighbor that jumped out of his seat when I told him in passing I was thinking of getting a milk cow. He wants to help me buy the cow. I don't think I want to do that. I would have the cow, care for the cow, milk the cow, all he would do is reap the benefit of my labor. And then that brings me to my next thought, lots of milk, every day, what would I do with all of it? I was thinking I could raise calves. What do you all do with your excess milk? Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  Get it now!

[Guest guest]

You will be so blessed with all that extra milk! You can make food

products galore, cheese, butter, yogurt, kefir, kefir cheese, ect, ect

ect...then you can also make soap and milk paint. And if you want to you

can sell it.

if you don't want to do all that kitchen work then try raising food with

it. I've heard lots of good things about milk fed pigs and birds. Also,

you could raise goats, lams and calves and then butcher later...

--

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

http://laudodeumfarmholisticgoatcare.blogspot.com/

(Exploring ways to raise happy, healthy quality Kinder, Nigerian Dwarf

and Mini-Nubian goats for small farms, homesteaders and families with

young children. We love our goats too much to let them suffer from

preventable diseases so ALL our kids will be on a disease prevention

program.)

[Guest guest]

Good luck- cows are very friendly with great big personality..

>Liz in NY

Liz, I've had a pet jersey steer for three years, the love of my life!

People around here think I am nuts that I'm not raising him for the

freezer. I don't care what they think! LOL And if a jersey steer can

be this gentle and kind I can't wait to have a milk cow.

I am very ready to be busy in the kitchen. I'm tired of spending all

my money at the grocery store. I will have milk, buttermilk, cream,

cheese, ice cream, etc.

I have lots I need to be collecting first, this time I won't buy an

animal first and then scramble to get everything I need for it's care

second, like I usually do. When I bring home a milk cow I will be fully

prepared.

I am putting together a folder with different subj. lines for things I

need to know,(medical, daily care, etc) As much as I am reading now

when it is time to put it all into action I won't remember anything!

There is so much to know, it is mind boggling.

Anyway thank you for responding, I am excited to be here. Shirley

[Guest guest]

I've heard lots of good things about milk fed pigs and birds. Also,

> you could raise goats, lams and calves and then butcher later...

> -- *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

Thanks Jo! I've got plenty of room for a pig or two and chickens.

I've got two goats (Jimmy and Sally), didn't get her for the milk, the

neighbor was going to eat her so I bought her and brought her home.

Then I had to go to the auction to get her a buddy! I've never bred

Sally, I need to find a male and get her bred. Her buddy, Jimmy is

fixed, a lovable goat.

I think I will raise calves off the milk cow, I love babies, it is alot

of work and I would love every minute of it. Shirley

[Guest guest]

Hi Shirley,

It freezes well...or just get a goat it gives a whole lot less milk!

Diane

-- In RawDairy , " ram0589 " wrote:

>

> Hi! My name is Shirley, we live in northern Arkansas. We moved here

> from Ariz three years ago. Kids are all grown and gone. Wait a

> minute let me get a sip of coffee.....Okay lol

> We have raised horses for years. We have trained them, shared them,

> showed them and rode them at home.

> I am tired of hay burners. I love my horses but really, what good

> are they if they are not working around the place which ours don't.

> I decided I want a milk cow. I've had raw milk long time ago. My

> folks had a milk cow.

> I want animals and poultry that will give back, milk, eggs, meat.

> I'm tired of pouring the money into animals that do nothing but look

> pretty.

> So I am on a quest in educating myself for having a milk cow. I

> found two forums, homestead today and keeping a family cow, they have

> been good sources for info.

> I know Ark don't allow selling raw cows milk, they say nothing about

> cow sharing. But the more I think of cow sharing the less I am

> interested in it. I need some help with this, what are the pros and

> cons? I have a neighbor that jumped out of his seat when I told him

> in passing I was thinking of getting a milk cow. He wants to help me

> buy the cow. I don't think I want to do that. I would have the cow,

> care for the cow, milk the cow, all he would do is reap the benefit

> of my labor.

> And then that brings me to my next thought, lots of milk, every day,

> what would I do with all of it? I was thinking I could raise

> calves. What do you all do with your excess milk?

>

[Guest guest]

We get pigs in February or March and they take care of the milk until

butchering time. From butchering to getting pigs again we soak whole

corn in the milk for our chickens. They love it!

Belinda

> Hi! My name is Shirley, we live in northern Arkansas. We moved here

> from Ariz three years ago. Kids are all grown and gone. Wait a

> minute let me get a sip of coffee.....Okay lol

> We have raised horses for years. We have trained them, shared them,

> showed them and rode them at home.

> I am tired of hay burners. I love my horses but really, what good

> are they if they are not working around the place which ours don't.

> I decided I want a milk cow. I've had raw milk long time ago. My

> folks had a milk cow.

> I want animals and poultry that will give back, milk, eggs, meat.

> I'm tired of pouring the money into animals that do nothing but look

> pretty.

> So I am on a quest in educating myself for having a milk cow. I

> found two forums, homestead today and keeping a family cow, they have

> been good sources for info.

> I know Ark don't allow selling raw cows milk, they say nothing about

> cow sharing. But the more I think of cow sharing the less I am

> interested in it. I need some help with this, what are the pros and

> cons? I have a neighbor that jumped out of his seat when I told him

> in passing I was thinking of getting a milk cow. He wants to help me

> buy the cow. I don't think I want to do that. I would have the cow,

> care for the cow, milk the cow, all he would do is reap the benefit

> of my labor.

> And then that brings me to my next thought, lots of milk, every day,

> what would I do with all of it? I was thinking I could raise

> calves. What do you all do with your excess milk?

>

[Guest guest]

Go to www.adga.org and you can find a listing of the local dairy goat

club for your area. They are listed state by state and there are

several for Arkansas. A lot of the dairy goat folks are also into

the cows, poultry, etc... and are a wonderful resource for you.

Contact me privately if you can't find this link and I'll get the

info for you.

I have had cows nearly all my life and Nubian dairy goats since

1991. The pros and the cons-

DAIRY goats are much cleaner, easier to handle, and easier to milk

than a cow. Notice I put 'DAIRY' in caps- you want a DAIRY goat!!

That's going to be an Alpine, LaMancha, Nubian, Oberhasli, Saanen, or

Toggenburg (or a crossbred of these breeds.) Yes, you can find a $30

stockyard goat that you can milk, but more than likely she won't be

what you really need. A well bred doe will give you minimum of 1500

pounds of milk in a 305 day lactation as a first freshener. She will

give you close to twice that as a 2 to 7 year old. Of course that's

if she is fed and cared for properly. You can haul that goat in the

back of your car and if she steps on your foot it's not broken.

Three goats bred so that one kids every four months will keep you

floating in milk through the year (for example goat A kids in

January, goat B kids in April, goat C kids in August) I love my

goats. Bucks smell while in rutt, but they should never be

aggressive. Goats are more vunerable to predators and to parasites.

They also need to be kept with at least one other companion goat to

be happy.

And, I love my Jersey cows, too. A cow gives about 4 times the milk

(or more, depending upon how you feed her) weighs about 7 to 10 times

more and eats a lot more, too. She can't be hauled in the car. If

she does take exception to what you are doing to her and you don't

have a nice head gate and squeeze chute, then someone is going to get

hurt... and it probably won't be the cow. If she steps on you, it's

going to break something. Cow poop is messy. Any bull of any breed

is like a loaded shotgun pointed at your head and a Jersey bull more

so. Cows are less vunerable to predators and to parasites.

We are milk lovers to the max and we feel our Nubian goat milk is

much the better tasting milk for drinking. The cow milk we use for

cottage cheese and making butter.

It's going to be what you enjoy fooling with. I love the cows

because I know and understand their long history as benefactor to our

civilization. I love the goats for same reason, too.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> Hi! My name is Shirley, we live in northern Arkansas. We moved

here

> from Ariz three years ago. Kids are all grown and gone. Wait a

> minute let me get a sip of coffee.....Okay lol

> We have raised horses for years. We have trained them, shared

them,

> showed them and rode them at home.

> I am tired of hay burners. I love my horses but really, what good

> are they if they are not working around the place which ours

don't.

> I decided I want a milk cow. I've had raw milk long time ago. My

> folks had a milk cow.

> I want animals and poultry that will give back, milk, eggs, meat.

> I'm tired of pouring the money into animals that do nothing but

look

> pretty.

> So I am on a quest in educating myself for having a milk cow. I

> found two forums, homestead today and keeping a family cow, they

have

> been good sources for info.

> I know Ark don't allow selling raw cows milk, they say nothing

about

> cow sharing. But the more I think of cow sharing the less I am

> interested in it. I need some help with this, what are the pros

and

> cons? I have a neighbor that jumped out of his seat when I told

him

> in passing I was thinking of getting a milk cow. He wants to help

me

> buy the cow. I don't think I want to do that. I would have the

cow,

> care for the cow, milk the cow, all he would do is reap the benefit

> of my labor.

> And then that brings me to my next thought, lots of milk, every

day,

> what would I do with all of it? I was thinking I could raise

> calves. What do you all do with your excess milk?

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the club none of us wants to belong to. (Sometimes I find

this funny, other times not so much.)

My little guy is 20 mos, had seizures starting a year ago, but has had

excellent control with Trileptal. Everyone's experience is so vastly

different, though. I wish you all the best on this journey, and

welcome, from this corner of the world. )

Blessings,

mom to 5

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Welcome. What breed of dairy goat? Our does start kidding the end of

January. Our Jersey cow is the only milk we have right now and dh

can't wait for the goats to freshen. He prefers the goat milk hands

down to the cow milk.

Are your does in milk right now? Have you made any cheese?

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we add a few dairy

> girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a stay at home

> mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to the dairy

> livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope every one had a

> merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your group. I know I

can

> learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Some Boers are good milk goats, too. If they have the genetics

to produce more than enough milk for their kids, are fed to support

that production, and have a correct mammary for easy milking (two

teated, long enough teats to milk, etc...) Their milk is just as

good as any dairy goat breeds' milk.

Congratulations on the twin does! Are they full Togg? Who did

you get your dairy goats from? The LaMancha as a breed has the best

type scores and IMVHO some of the best genetics. Because you can

still 'breed up' to a purebred in the LaMancha, a lot of people take

their 'oops' crossbreds and breed into LaMancha.

I have about a dozen does that need to be seperated from rest and

penned to start feeding extra since they start kidding the end of

January. Dh is so looking forward to goat milk in the refrigerator,

too.

Making cheese is very easy to do. Two great books that helped me

a lot are Cheesemaking Made Easy (Carroll, may have been renamed? in

it's most recent edition) and Goats Produce Too! (Toth, lots of other

recipes, too, like for soap and chevon dishes.) Best place I have

found to get supplies is Dairy Connection.

> > >

> > > Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we add a few

> dairy

> > > girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a stay at

> home

> > > mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to the dairy

> > > livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope every one

had

> a

> > > merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your group. I

know

> I

> > can

> > > learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> > > Sara

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All we have is a boer bill. I was a bad girl and got my dairy goats

at the sale barn. Most of our Boer girl that have real nice utters

are the ones that are hard to catch. I don't have either one of those

books yet, guess i need to go on a shopping spree and find them.

> > > >

> > > > Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we add a

few

> > dairy

> > > > girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a stay

at

> > home

> > > > mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to the

dairy

> > > > livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope every one

> had

> > a

> > > > merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your group. I

> know

> > I

> > > can

> > > > learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> > > > Sara

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A lot of us start out with stock barn animals because we don't know

any better. There are many of my friends who started out that way

and built up a really nice group of animals out of that kind of

start. But, they didn't keep trading animals in and out of the

herd.

The 'bad' thing about the sale barn is the diseases you can bring

home. Anytime you bring in any animals from anywhere else you run

the risk of bringing home diseases. That includes private sales from

high dollar breeders, too. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. I

have seen folks pay a lot of money for animals from well recognized

herds and end up with disease problems. It's just that the sale barn

is usually going to be the channel through which animals that are

problematic are going to travel, so your chances of getting that

problem is increased.

I don't know of anyone who deals with stock yard goats that doesn't

live to greatly regret the day when something they brought home makes

all sick. If you want healthy animals and healthy milk to drink, I

would avoid stock barn and in general allowing any animals to come

into your herd.

Over the years I have learned many hard lessons both by personal

experiences and by watching the heartbreak and cost $$$ to others.

You can greatly limit your exposure to risks by bringing in new

genetics by way of a new buck (who has been quarantined at least 30

days previously and comes from a herd known for healthy animals.)

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we add a

> few

> > > dairy

> > > > > girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a

stay

> at

> > > home

> > > > > mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to the

> dairy

> > > > > livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope every

one

> > had

> > > a

> > > > > merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your group.

I

> > know

> > > I

> > > > can

> > > > > learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> > > > > Sara

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

New animals are a crap shoot no matter where you buy them. We have a

registered " closed herd " near us that continues to sell CAE positive

animals as healthy. Stock barns might spread disease but buying

registered animals doesn't always assure you of good stock either.

Belinda

> A lot of us start out with stock barn animals because we don't know

> any better. There are many of my friends who started out that way

> and built up a really nice group of animals out of that kind of

> start. But, they didn't keep trading animals in and out of the

> herd.

>

> The 'bad' thing about the sale barn is the diseases you can bring

> home. Anytime you bring in any animals from anywhere else you run

> the risk of bringing home diseases. That includes private sales from

> high dollar breeders, too. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. I

> have seen folks pay a lot of money for animals from well recognized

> herds and end up with disease problems. It's just that the sale barn

> is usually going to be the channel through which animals that are

> problematic are going to travel, so your chances of getting that

> problem is increased.

>

> I don't know of anyone who deals with stock yard goats that doesn't

> live to greatly regret the day when something they brought home makes

> all sick. If you want healthy animals and healthy milk to drink, I

> would avoid stock barn and in general allowing any animals to come

> into your herd.

>

> Over the years I have learned many hard lessons both by personal

> experiences and by watching the heartbreak and cost $$$ to others.

> You can greatly limit your exposure to risks by bringing in new

> genetics by way of a new buck (who has been quarantined at least 30

> days previously and comes from a herd known for healthy animals.)

>

> Donna

> Safehaven Nubians

> Dandridge, TN

>

>

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we add a

> > few

> > > > dairy

> > > > > > girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a

> stay

> > at

> > > > home

> > > > > > mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to the

> > dairy

> > > > > > livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope every

> one

> > > had

> > > > a

> > > > > > merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your group.

> I

> > > know

> > > > I

> > > > > can

> > > > > > learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> > > > > > Sara

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When buying from a breeder, if you have the ability to ask

questions and do some investigation your chances of getting healthy

animals that will breed true are much, much higher than what you will

find through a stockyard. Nobody should ever buy ANYTHING without

having done their homework.

Yes, I have bought animals from 'reputable' breeders only to find

them not what they should be. I learned some $$$ lessons in what to

ask and how to investigate, too.

With goats the three to beware of are es (bacterial, can live

on ground/surfaces for up to two years), CAE (virus, under best of

circumstances lives about a week outside the goat), and CL

(bacterial, can live on ground/surfaces for up to two years.) All

will break your heart and kill your goats.

There are many out there for who denial is not a river in Egypt,

too. They refuse to believe what they see and sell to those who are

also blind. Some are blind due to ignorance- being green and newbie

they don't know any better. And, some are blind because of pure old

ego/greed. Is it suprising how someone will drag that CAE positive

doe from show to show because she wins BOB, BIS every time!? And,

then sells her kids for $1000 a pop to another ego maniac who also

wants to win??!

BTW the conversion to CAE positive of offspring of a CAE

positive doe is very high. That is something that almost nobody

will talk to you about or admit. Studies show that even if kid is

taken C-section that they do convert. Some recent studies show that

conversion is over half. So, you might want to do some research

before you buy a kid out of a known positive doe.

When we used to show, what terrified me the most what what my

goats might bring back home from a show!! The goat world is a small

world and every body knows pretty much every body. At every show

there would be a couple of herds there that entire show string was

CAE positive. And, another couple of breeders who had CL in their

herds so only brought the does without the lumps. VBS. Then, you

also had to wonder what had been in the pens before you??? SHEEP!

I miss the fun and fellowship, but not the worry since we quit

showing. Now, we try to do LA instead since it's much safer and

actually tells me more about whats really going on.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello, I am Sara. We mainly raise meat goats, but we

add a

> > > few

> > > > > dairy

> > > > > > > girls this summer. We live in Northern Missouri. I am a

> > stay

> > > at

> > > > > home

> > > > > > > mom and full time farm hand. I am completely new to

the

> > > dairy

> > > > > > > livestock. I think I'm ready to start milking. Hope

every

> > one

> > > > had

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > merry Christmas. Thank you for letting me join your

group.

> > I

> > > > know

> > > > > I

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > learn a lot from the folks in this group.

> > > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter, 12, who has Autism also has severe behavioral problems. The dr.s

also believe that her unprompted, irrational, incoherent rage followed by out of

the ordinary sleeping is seizure activity. She has been on Depokote for this.

I'm afraid to tell you that puberty has made her problems much worse.

We are just trying to live through puberty.

CHRISTY WILLIAMS