Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

[Guest guest]

Hi All:

I never said Dr. Spear was or is anti-implant! The fact is, he removed implants from my friend's friend and gave her a great mastopexy. He did not belabor his views on implants. He removed this woman's implant and the capsule too. She suffered from being botched by another doc and he fixed her. PERIOD. My friend did not care about his politics she just wanted her beachballs out and this doc did just that.

Dr. Kolb, your point is well taken. The fact is, not many PS will admit to or feel implants are harmful (in some women)--and this really sux. Just about all PSs implant women--some more than others so there is enough glass houses and stones on this issue. The point I want to make is if a doc is good at removing them, gives a good mastopexy, WHO CARES what his personal view is (as long as they disclose info about implants)? Well, yes, we should care as I would like to see more PS take a stand on implants, but do we reject going to doc who favor implants even if they CAN help us with explantation and mastopexy? Do we hold out for an anti-implant only doc and hope that they work with our special concerns? I say "bull." I had special concerns (thyroid and adverse reaction to general anesthesia)--Feng did not care about MY special concerns, so I went to someone WHO DOES, and that fact that his view on implants differs from mine--SO BE IT.

Admittedly, it's nice to have a doc who believes as the patient does -- but this is not always the case. Last week, I consulted with a PS who in large measure thinks in most cases implants are safe. Should I dismiss him as a choice to fix my botched breasts b/c he is OK about giving women implants? I won't. He has successfully restored MANY botched breasts along with other surgical procedures. I have to live with the work a PS does on me--not his politics. I'm more concerned with feeling restored now than his view on implants. ly, I DON'T NEED HIS VALIDATION on this implant issue as I'm smart enough to see the writing on the wall. My point boils down to this: If a PS can do an implant removal and a great mastopexy--great. After explantation women need detox (they can follow your recommendation or go to a homeopathic doc who is familiar with this. To the best of my knowledge, you are they only PS who provides this service--so even if a patient did go to an anti-implant doc, what more would they do anyway? Provide validation--and some have a 10,000 price tag to this validation? That "validation" is not affordable to all. I think when PS's charge 10,000 or so on a sick woman who NEEDS explantation/mastopexy is REALLY TAKING BIG TIME ADVANTAGE of women in this awful situation. This offends me just as much as the PS who tell us they are perfectly safe so they can get our $! My doc said he'd explant and do a mastopexy for less than 6,000. Now that's a doc who's willing to help even if his views differ from us on this forum. So tell me about views now?

Take care.

-Marie

[Guest guest]

-: Please make sure you differentiate between self pay rates and insurance rates when you cost compare. Many plastic surgeons will not try to get insurance coverage for explant because they do not believe implants are making women sick. Most surgeons have much lower self pay rates than insurance rates but in the end the patient ends up paying more for the self pay rate than the insurance copay. I still wonder about a surgeon who recieved information from a fellow surgeon with a great deal of clinical experience about a implant that he is promoting and is not interested about the problems that that surgeon is seeing clinnically. Surely you can appreciate that this is more serious than if he does not believe what several of his patients are saying. I only asked that if anyone goes to him they may wish to ask what he thought of my letter. .

-----Original Message-----From: perlesetlacet@... [mailto:perlesetlacet@...]Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et alHi All:I never said Dr. Spear was or is anti-implant! The fact is, he removed implants from my friend's friend and gave her a great mastopexy. He did not belabor his views on implants. He removed this woman's implant and the capsule too. She suffered from being botched by another doc and he fixed her. PERIOD. My friend did not care about his politics she just wanted her beachballs out and this doc did just that.Dr. Kolb, your point is well taken. The fact is, not many PS will admit to or feel implants are harmful (in some women)--and this really sux. Just about all PSs implant women--some more than others so there is enough glass houses and stones on this issue. The point I want to make is if a doc is good at removing them, gives a good mastopexy, WHO CARES what his personal view is (as long as they disclose info about implants)? Well, yes, we should care as I would like to see more PS take a stand on implants, but do we reject going to doc who favor implants even if they CAN help us with explantation and mastopexy? Do we hold out for an anti-implant only doc and hope that they work with our special concerns? I say "bull." I had special concerns (thyroid and adverse reaction to general anesthesia)--Feng did not care about MY special concerns, so I went to someone WHO DOES, and that fact that his view on implants differs from mine--SO BE IT.Admittedly, it's nice to have a doc who believes as the patient does -- but this is not always the case. Last week, I consulted with a PS who in large measure thinks in most cases implants are safe. Should I dismiss him as a choice to fix my botched breasts b/c he is OK about giving women implants? I won't. He has successfully restored MANY botched breasts along with other surgical procedures. I have to live with the work a PS does on me--not his politics. I'm more concerned with feeling restored now than his view on implants. ly, I DON'T NEED HIS VALIDATION on this implant issue as I'm smart enough to see the writing on the wall. My point boils down to this: If a PS can do an implant removal and a great mastopexy--great. After explantation women need detox (they can follow your recommendation or go to a homeopathic doc who is familiar with this. To the best of my knowledge, you are they only PS who provides this service--so even if a patient did go to an anti-implant doc, what more would they do anyway? Provide validation--and some have a 10,000 price tag to this validation? That "validation" is not affordable to all. I think when PS's charge 10,000 or so on a sick woman who NEEDS explantation/mastopexy is REALLY TAKING BIG TIME ADVANTAGE of women in this awful situation. This offends me just as much as the PS who tell us they are perfectly safe so they can get our $! My doc said he'd explant and do a mastopexy for less than 6,000. Now that's a doc who's willing to help even if his views differ from us on this forum. So tell me about views now?Take care.-Marie

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Kolb and All:

Does Feng charge less if it's self pay????????? I'd be interested to know. I guess cashing in more off the insurance company makes it more palatable..........

I too do not like a PS who will not admit dangers about implants or any surgical procedure--it's fundamentally dishonest. I don't know why Dr. Spear feels as he does--I just know of someone he has helped. Does he really believe this? Who knows. When it comes to the dangers of implants, I'm trying to wrap my mind around is this: are most PS liars or are some just plain IGNORANT on this implant issue? Whatever the reason I wonder what is worse, a liar, ignorant or one who KNOWS BETTER the dangers but implants ANYWAY? I think my statement earlier about the glass house and stones are appropriate.

I'll conclude by saying full disclosure but implanting anyway is the lesser of three evils. I believe in choice. But let's not forget--regardless of where your PS stands on the implant issue, they have their own agenda. PS's are cashing in--it's the American way. Remember get to one that can help YOU with YOUR individual needs--that's one reason for this forum. Nobody has the monopoly on this issue, not even Feng.

Take care,

-Marie

[Guest guest]

I look forward to meeting you . .

-----Original Message-----From: evelyn s wilkins [mailto:ecky@...]Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

Dr. Kolb, I'm new to this group and live in Central SE GA and just beginning to check on explant, bilateral. I had mammoplasty and saline implants in mid 80s.

Never new of any litigation, etc, until I begin looking on web re: implants. I have two health ins.(state health and So. Co) policies and they paid over $20,000. for earlier procedures. I have contacted you're office for appt. Thanks for your input.

----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Kolb

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:29 AM

Subject: RE: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-: Please make sure you differentiate between self pay rates and insurance rates when you cost compare. Many plastic surgeons will not try to get insurance coverage for explant because they do not believe implants are making women sick. Most surgeons have much lower self pay rates than insurance rates but in the end the patient ends up paying more for the self pay rate than the insurance copay. I still wonder about a surgeon who recieved information from a fellow surgeon with a great deal of clinical experience about a implant that he is promoting and is not interested about the problems that that surgeon is seeing clinnically. Surely you can appreciate that this is more serious than if he does not believe what several of his patients are saying. I only asked that if anyone goes to him they may wish to ask what he thought of my letter. .

-----Original Message-----From: perlesetlacet@... [mailto:perlesetlacet@...]Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et alHi All:I never said Dr. Spear was or is anti-implant! The fact is, he removed implants from my friend's friend and gave her a great mastopexy. He did not belabor his views on implants. He removed this woman's implant and the capsule too. She suffered from being botched by another doc and he fixed her. PERIOD. My friend did not care about his politics she just wanted her beachballs out and this doc did just that.Dr. Kolb, your point is well taken. The fact is, not many PS will admit to or feel implants are harmful (in some women)--and this really sux. Just about all PSs implant women--some more than others so there is enough glass houses and stones on this issue. The point I want to make is if a doc is good at removing them, gives a good mastopexy, WHO CARES what his personal view is (as long as they disclose info about implants)? Well, yes, we should care as I would like to see more PS take a stand on implants, but do we reject going to doc who favor implants even if they CAN help us with explantation and mastopexy? Do we hold out for an anti-implant only doc and hope that they work with our special concerns? I say "bull." I had special concerns (thyroid and adverse reaction to general anesthesia)--Feng did not care about MY special concerns, so I went to someone WHO DOES, and that fact that his view on implants differs from mine--SO BE IT.Admittedly, it's nice to have a doc who believes as the patient does -- but this is not always the case. Last week, I consulted with a PS who in large measure thinks in most cases implants are safe. Should I dismiss him as a choice to fix my botched breasts b/c he is OK about giving women implants? I won't. He has successfully restored MANY botched breasts along with other surgical procedures. I have to live with the work a PS does on me--not his politics. I'm more concerned with feeling restored now than his view on implants. ly, I DON'T NEED HIS VALIDATION on this implant issue as I'm smart enough to see the writing on the wall. My point boils down to this: If a PS can do an implant removal and a great mastopexy--great. After explantation women need detox (they can follow your recommendation or go to a homeopathic doc who is familiar with this. To the best of my knowledge, you are they only PS who provides this service--so even if a patient did go to an anti-implant doc, what more would they do anyway? Provide validation--and some have a 10,000 price tag to this validation? That "validation" is not affordable to all. I think when PS's charge 10,000 or so on a sick woman who NEEDS explantation/mastopexy is REALLY TAKING BIG TIME ADVANTAGE of women in this awful situation. This offends me just as much as the PS who tell us they are perfectly safe so they can get our $! My doc said he'd explant and do a mastopexy for less than 6,000. Now that's a doc who's willing to help even if his views differ from us on this forum. So tell me about views now?Take care.-Marie

[Guest guest]

-Marie,

'And, telling him what you 'know' about implants is what you should do! Ask him what he knows about the platinum in silicone gel and/or silicone shells of breast implants. Ask him what the valance of the platinum becomes after being placed in the body, and what effects it has on the liver!

"let's roll",

MM

Martha Murdock, DirectorNational Silicone Implant FoundationMAM-NSIF@...www.topica.com/lists/BreastImplantNews

"Knowledge Is Power"

[Guest guest]

Hi Martha:

Hi. I would ask Spear these things but I found another doc I like better. While I think Dr. Spear is a fine aesthetic surgeon (I saw his work he does GREAT mastopexies), I don't support his view that implants are safe. I don't. I think it's bullshit. But having said this, I would still recommend women to see him b/c he will explant, do mastopexy, facelift what have you and the job will GET DONE! The man has a gift--no doubt. But if women want to see him, I do think they should speak up and grow some stones before seeing him (or any PS for that matter) and tell them what they think, if he can't deal with it, too bad.

The thing is with me, I don't care if I offend my doc with questions or my thoughts/opinions, I politely say what I think and if they don't like it, I'll take my money elsewhere. I don't take crap from anyone--doctor or no doctor. I just want the job done that I pay them to do.

I can get his e-mail address and we can write to him.

Take care,

-Marie

[Guest guest]

Hi -Marie,

Your reasoning is the same as mine has always been for the past ten-years regarding this matter. In the beginning of my 'career' related to breast implants, I would make "business appointments" with doctors in the DFW area and literally 'interview' them regarding their position on our issues. I learned alot, and so did they!

Blessings,

MM

Martha Murdock, DirectorNational Silicone Implant FoundationMAM-NSIF@...www.topica.com/lists/BreastImplantNews

"Knowledge Is Power"

[Guest guest]

yes Martha and don't you agree that to give your hard earned money to a pro implant PS is a mistake or am I alone here?

----- Original Message -----

From: MARTHA-NSIF

Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:57 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

Hi -Marie,

Your reasoning is the same as mine has always been for the past ten-years regarding this matter. In the beginning of my 'career' related to breast implants, I would make "business appointments" with doctors in the DFW area and literally 'interview' them regarding their position on our issues. I learned alot, and so did they!

Blessings,

MM

Martha Murdock, DirectorNational Silicone Implant FoundationMAM-NSIF@...www.topica.com/lists/BreastImplantNews

"Knowledge Is Power"

[Guest guest]

e I agree with what you are saying as I think most of us do, however I still feel that it is important to go to a PS who believe in our illness don't you? That is why I thnk that women need Dr like Feng or Huang because they not only are good surgeons but they are experts with the whole issue of implants.

Just my two cents here but thought it was important enought to ask you about!

love

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-Marie,

I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point.

But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree.

Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples.

And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

I feel strongly that my explant was worth every penny I paid for it and while many can disagree to me it was worth it, I would pay it all again in a second if I had to, she not only made these old boobs look pretty good again but she helped me get well, can't put a price on that.

I am sorry if everyone here wants to bargain hunt for explant then that is fine, but not soemthing I would recomend. I am glad that I did what I did, and no many Feng patients who feel the same as well.

Also yes the thing about listening to yur gut that was best indicator that I was doing the right thing, and it was too. My gut instince said that Feng was the one for me, I am so glad too, since now I am so much better

No regrets here

Love

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-Marie,

I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point.

But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree.

Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples.

And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

-Marie, I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point. But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree. Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples. And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU. e ----- Original Message ----- From: perlesetlacet@... Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

, Absolutely!! If I saw a ps who denied any relationship between implants and illness, I would question whether he had my best interests at heart. And how could he morally and ethically explant (and do a good job) if he doesn't believe an explant is necessary? I have seen surgeons in the OR who don't agree with what the pt is having done, and as a result, are more rough and gruff, and tend to be a little too cavalier, almost like "this will serve you right." On the other hand, some women may feel comfortable seeing a ps who does not see a relationship with implants and illness. If the doc projects caring, compassion, and concern, and has skill and expertise in doing explants, than that woman needs to do what she is most comfortable with. And unfortunately, even the docs we know are highly recommended and do believe in implants and illness (Huang, Feng, Kolb, and others) still do implant women. So, while these docs are agreeing there is a relationship, they are also not helping our cause much by continuing to implant. So, theoretically, I suppose someone could argue that what difference does it make? All ps' are implanting women, so how much do they truly believe in the dangers of implants? On the other hand, I strongly feel that if a ps is adamant that implants are not related to health problems, he/she should state that up front and not do an explant. I did run across this situation when I was in Seattle. I was looking for a rheumatologist, and one doctors name came up several times as being very good. But when I called his office to schedule an appt, I asked his receptionist if he had any feelings/opinions about implants and disease, and that was the reason I wanted to see him. She wasn't sure and said she'd check with him and get back to me. She called me back that same day and said that he did not believe there was a relationship, and felt that it would be more appropriate to refer me to someone else. While I was frustrated, I respected that he was able to tell me up front so that I didn't waste my time or his, or my money. What it ultimately comes down to, again, is your comfort level with someone who doesn't believe in a relationship between implants and disease. If the doc is caring and concerned about your health problems, he may be an appropriate choice for some women; or he may not. I personally wouldn't go to a ps who couldn't or wouldn't admit a relationship between the 2. But the fact that every ps we know of continues to implant women can make for a very nebulous argument, because how can we trust someone who agrees with us, yet at the same time places these devices into women, regardless of the fact that the docs educate them about the potential problems? Not only is it a nebulous argument, but it's a double edged sword for both parties involved. e ----- Original Message ----- From: Heer Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al e I agree with what you are saying as I think most of us do, however I still feel that it is important to go to a PS who believe in our illness don't you? That is why I thnk that women need Dr like Feng or Huang because they not only are good surgeons but they are experts with the whole issue of implants. Just my two cents here but thought it was important enought to ask you about! love ----- Original Message ----- From: e Rene Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al -Marie, I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point. But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree. Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples. And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU. e ----- Original Message ----- From: perlesetlacet@... Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

The majority of women with problems with saline implants have textured implants or smooth implants with infections that usually occur due to immune system problems or problems with techniques used in surgery. Implant surgery of any type can be complicated with infection if these occur. I am dedicated to finding ways to strenthen the immune system so that women who have implants can tolerate them if they have immune problems. I would like to see more research to determine who should not get implants ie. certain HLA types. I have only had to remove one set of saline implants in my patients and that was not for health reasons but for reasons of religious beliefs. The immune protocols are very effective. .

-----Original Message-----From: e Rene [mailto:e_Rene@...]Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

,

Absolutely!! If I saw a ps who denied any relationship between implants and illness, I would question whether he had my best interests at heart. And how could he morally and ethically explant (and do a good job) if he doesn't believe an explant is necessary? I have seen surgeons in the OR who don't agree with what the pt is having done, and as a result, are more rough and gruff, and tend to be a little too cavalier, almost like "this will serve you right."

On the other hand, some women may feel comfortable seeing a ps who does not see a relationship with implants and illness. If the doc projects caring, compassion, and concern, and has skill and expertise in doing explants, than that woman needs to do what she is most comfortable with. And unfortunately, even the docs we know are highly recommended and do believe in implants and illness (Huang, Feng, Kolb, and others) still do implant women. So, while these docs are agreeing there is a relationship, they are also not helping our cause much by continuing to implant. So, theoretically, I suppose someone could argue that what difference does it make? All ps' are implanting women, so how much do they truly believe in the dangers of implants? On the other hand, I strongly feel that if a ps is adamant that implants are not related to health problems, he/she should state that up front and not do an explant. I did run across this situation when I was in Seattle. I was looking for a rheumatologist, and one doctors name came up several times as being very good. But when I called his office to schedule an appt, I asked his receptionist if he had any feelings/opinions about implants and disease, and that was the reason I wanted to see him. She wasn't sure and said she'd check with him and get back to me. She called me back that same day and said that he did not believe there was a relationship, and felt that it would be more appropriate to refer me to someone else. While I was frustrated, I respected that he was able to tell me up front so that I didn't waste my time or his, or my money.

What it ultimately comes down to, again, is your comfort level with someone who doesn't believe in a relationship between implants and disease. If the doc is caring and concerned about your health problems, he may be an appropriate choice for some women; or he may not. I personally wouldn't go to a ps who couldn't or wouldn't admit a relationship between the 2. But the fact that every ps we know of continues to implant women can make for a very nebulous argument, because how can we trust someone who agrees with us, yet at the same time places these devices into women, regardless of the fact that the docs educate them about the potential problems? Not only is it a nebulous argument, but it's a double edged sword for both parties involved.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:34 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

e I agree with what you are saying as I think most of us do, however I still feel that it is important to go to a PS who believe in our illness don't you? That is why I thnk that women need Dr like Feng or Huang because they not only are good surgeons but they are experts with the whole issue of implants.

Just my two cents here but thought it was important enought to ask you about!

love

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-Marie,

I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point.

But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree.

Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples.

And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

Are you saying that you have only seen one woman with saline implants that had to be removed? that is really interesting. I do know a patient of your who said that she was very ill from implants, she said you did a donut lift when you removed her implants, She was ill, maybe her illness was not related to her implants then? I am wondering since you mention only one patient ever had her saline removed by you. Please if you don't mind clarifying this I would appreciate it

Thanks again

----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Kolb

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:59 AM

Subject: RE: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

The majority of women with problems with saline implants have textured implants or smooth implants with infections that usually occur due to immune system problems or problems with techniques used in surgery. Implant surgery of any type can be complicated with infection if these occur. I am dedicated to finding ways to strenthen the immune system so that women who have implants can tolerate them if they have immune problems. I would like to see more research to determine who should not get implants ie. certain HLA types. I have only had to remove one set of saline implants in my patients and that was not for health reasons but for reasons of religious beliefs. The immune protocols are very effective. .

-----Original Message-----From: e Rene [mailto:e_Rene@...]Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

,

Absolutely!! If I saw a ps who denied any relationship between implants and illness, I would question whether he had my best interests at heart. And how could he morally and ethically explant (and do a good job) if he doesn't believe an explant is necessary? I have seen surgeons in the OR who don't agree with what the pt is having done, and as a result, are more rough and gruff, and tend to be a little too cavalier, almost like "this will serve you right."

On the other hand, some women may feel comfortable seeing a ps who does not see a relationship with implants and illness. If the doc projects caring, compassion, and concern, and has skill and expertise in doing explants, than that woman needs to do what she is most comfortable with. And unfortunately, even the docs we know are highly recommended and do believe in implants and illness (Huang, Feng, Kolb, and others) still do implant women. So, while these docs are agreeing there is a relationship, they are also not helping our cause much by continuing to implant. So, theoretically, I suppose someone could argue that what difference does it make? All ps' are implanting women, so how much do they truly believe in the dangers of implants? On the other hand, I strongly feel that if a ps is adamant that implants are not related to health problems, he/she should state that up front and not do an explant. I did run across this situation when I was in Seattle. I was looking for a rheumatologist, and one doctors name came up several times as being very good. But when I called his office to schedule an appt, I asked his receptionist if he had any feelings/opinions about implants and disease, and that was the reason I wanted to see him. She wasn't sure and said she'd check with him and get back to me. She called me back that same day and said that he did not believe there was a relationship, and felt that it would be more appropriate to refer me to someone else. While I was frustrated, I respected that he was able to tell me up front so that I didn't waste my time or his, or my money.

What it ultimately comes down to, again, is your comfort level with someone who doesn't believe in a relationship between implants and disease. If the doc is caring and concerned about your health problems, he may be an appropriate choice for some women; or he may not. I personally wouldn't go to a ps who couldn't or wouldn't admit a relationship between the 2. But the fact that every ps we know of continues to implant women can make for a very nebulous argument, because how can we trust someone who agrees with us, yet at the same time places these devices into women, regardless of the fact that the docs educate them about the potential problems? Not only is it a nebulous argument, but it's a double edged sword for both parties involved.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:34 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

e I agree with what you are saying as I think most of us do, however I still feel that it is important to go to a PS who believe in our illness don't you? That is why I thnk that women need Dr like Feng or Huang because they not only are good surgeons but they are experts with the whole issue of implants.

Just my two cents here but thought it was important enought to ask you about!

love

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-Marie,

I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point.

But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree.

Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples.

And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

Thank you Martha! Yep, it's like going on job interviews! I'll have to get a job soon after I get my surgery and all--it will be time to get a life again.

Take care and thanks for the great quotes--I love them. I've even saved some of them.

-Marie

[Guest guest]

Granted, it's BEST if you can find an anti-implant doc to meet all your needs--certainly that is the BEST case senario--I don't doubt that. But that goal is not REALISTIC for all us chicks here. Therefore, we need to do our level best to work in the system and at the same time BUCKING the system by opening our mouths and speaking up. I went to see a doc in Baltimore, I told him how I felt about implants as I have to ALL PS's I have been to. When he said they where safe, I said "bullshit." He laughed at my candor and then LISTENED to me. Little by little, what we say does make a difference. I'm all for very public discussion of this issue.

If augmentation Kings such as Gordon can admit to Ang, that some women have problems, this tells me, it's not impossible to educate people.

I intend on having a deep dialogue with my mastopexy surgeon on this issue. He has told me that he has not had any women ill on implants, then again, he does not do a lot of implants in IN. He is open to listening to me and I told him I belonged to an implant survivors group. He respected that. He's in a Univ. setting not at all tacky or fake.

Take care All.

-Marie

[Guest guest]

There's no such thing as a PS who does not use implants at all--not to my knowledge anyway.

[Guest guest]

Thanks e.

Yes, pricing is relative to the region. I went to LA last month and say a guy in Beverly Hills that cost 8,500 for a mastopexy! That was discouraging, especially in light of the fact he has a criminal record too. His name is Gustien, MD. He seemed very nice and knowledgeable but with a felony on his record I said "no way." I did not bother to check him out before going, fact is I already had an appointment with my GP in the same building so it's not like I wasted time or money (the consult was free). He showed me B & A pics of bad mastopexies which he did fix pretty well, BUT the doc I saw at UI does even better work for less than 5,000. So, again, it's not always the money, advertisement and the fancy office that counts. But quality of care that's best suited for you.

BTW, the going rate for mastopexy in DC is about 6,500. I think it's a rip off.

-Marie

[Guest guest]

:

I'm happy that things worked out for you --we all are. Again, it's not about bargain hunting some just can't afford Feng. That's the truth. As e and I have pointed out, paying more does not guarantee better results. I paid the going rate in DC for mastopexy and I got stapled tits.

I agree that you got your needs met so what you paid was worth it for you.

All the best.

-Marie

[Guest guest]

I only had one patient that I implanted with smooth saline implants that asked me to remove them but she was not ill. She had recovered from ruptured silicone implants that I removed and replaced with smooth saline at her request. She later became a Christian and asked for them to be removed for religious reasons. I have probably close to 500 women with smooth saline implants and I am well know for being an expert on the problems they can cause, so I would hope that if any of my patients were having problems, they would let me know. Of course, some of my silicone patients that had silicone leaking for a long time are still dealing with problems. I am not saying that all my patients are well, but most are much better than when they came to me if they have continued with the protocol.

-----Original Message-----From: Heer [mailto:idagirl@...]Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

Are you saying that you have only seen one woman with saline implants that had to be removed? that is really interesting. I do know a patient of your who said that she was very ill from implants, she said you did a donut lift when you removed her implants, She was ill, maybe her illness was not related to her implants then? I am wondering since you mention only one patient ever had her saline removed by you. Please if you don't mind clarifying this I would appreciate it

Thanks again

----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Kolb

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:59 AM

Subject: RE: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

The majority of women with problems with saline implants have textured implants or smooth implants with infections that usually occur due to immune system problems or problems with techniques used in surgery. Implant surgery of any type can be complicated with infection if these occur. I am dedicated to finding ways to strenthen the immune system so that women who have implants can tolerate them if they have immune problems. I would like to see more research to determine who should not get implants ie. certain HLA types. I have only had to remove one set of saline implants in my patients and that was not for health reasons but for reasons of religious beliefs. The immune protocols are very effective. .

-----Original Message-----From: e Rene [mailto:e_Rene@...]Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

,

Absolutely!! If I saw a ps who denied any relationship between implants and illness, I would question whether he had my best interests at heart. And how could he morally and ethically explant (and do a good job) if he doesn't believe an explant is necessary? I have seen surgeons in the OR who don't agree with what the pt is having done, and as a result, are more rough and gruff, and tend to be a little too cavalier, almost like "this will serve you right."

On the other hand, some women may feel comfortable seeing a ps who does not see a relationship with implants and illness. If the doc projects caring, compassion, and concern, and has skill and expertise in doing explants, than that woman needs to do what she is most comfortable with. And unfortunately, even the docs we know are highly recommended and do believe in implants and illness (Huang, Feng, Kolb, and others) still do implant women. So, while these docs are agreeing there is a relationship, they are also not helping our cause much by continuing to implant. So, theoretically, I suppose someone could argue that what difference does it make? All ps' are implanting women, so how much do they truly believe in the dangers of implants? On the other hand, I strongly feel that if a ps is adamant that implants are not related to health problems, he/she should state that up front and not do an explant. I did run across this situation when I was in Seattle. I was looking for a rheumatologist, and one doctors name came up several times as being very good. But when I called his office to schedule an appt, I asked his receptionist if he had any feelings/opinions about implants and disease, and that was the reason I wanted to see him. She wasn't sure and said she'd check with him and get back to me. She called me back that same day and said that he did not believe there was a relationship, and felt that it would be more appropriate to refer me to someone else. While I was frustrated, I respected that he was able to tell me up front so that I didn't waste my time or his, or my money.

What it ultimately comes down to, again, is your comfort level with someone who doesn't believe in a relationship between implants and disease. If the doc is caring and concerned about your health problems, he may be an appropriate choice for some women; or he may not. I personally wouldn't go to a ps who couldn't or wouldn't admit a relationship between the 2. But the fact that every ps we know of continues to implant women can make for a very nebulous argument, because how can we trust someone who agrees with us, yet at the same time places these devices into women, regardless of the fact that the docs educate them about the potential problems? Not only is it a nebulous argument, but it's a double edged sword for both parties involved.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: Heer

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 1:34 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

e I agree with what you are saying as I think most of us do, however I still feel that it is important to go to a PS who believe in our illness don't you? That is why I thnk that women need Dr like Feng or Huang because they not only are good surgeons but they are experts with the whole issue of implants.

Just my two cents here but thought it was important enought to ask you about!

love

----- Original Message -----

From: e Rene

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:02 AM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

-Marie,

I have to agree with you 100% on your statements. While it is sometimes true that you get what you pay for, it isn't ALWAYS true. Again, I had excellent results with Dr. Huang, and yet the total cost was only $3500--much cheaper than most other ps'. And she is by far one of the most well respected ps in the world. And I do agree that lots of the hype and fancy offices that some ps' have (and other specialists as well) does not necessarily mean they are the best and will give you the best results. On the contrary, I have seen lavish MD offices with elaborate advertising campaigns, and they have done such horrible work that it is a sin. And then you have the MD's who don't have a lavish office and don't have huge advertisements in the phone book, and yet they are often some of the most caring and concerned docs out there and do a good job. Why? I think that these are the docs that feel truly comfortable with their skills and knowledge and don't need to prove a point.

But, this is just my opinion, and I happen to agree with -Marie, and I think that when looking for a ps, one just needs to do their homework, get the cost in writing, visit a couple of ps' if possible, and make an informed decision. Go with your gut. Your gut won't steer you wrong. And one also has to take into account the area of the country where the ps is located. Some areas are going to charge higher fees, because of reimbursement issues, rent for their office, salary of their staff, and cost of malpractice insurance, etc. We all know that someplace like NYC, Boston, or anywhere in California will probably charge exorbitant prices, but it's all relevant to some degree.

Also, if insurance is paying for your explant, then most insurance companies will pay only the UC (usual and customary) charges for that particular area. So, a ps in North Dakota will probably charge a significantly lower fee than a ps in NYC. But when insurance looks at these charges, they will look at the geographic area. If the North Dakota ps is charging $10,000 for an explant, and a ps in NYC is also charging $10,000 for the same procedure, then insurance is going to question the ND doc and deny payment because the charges are not usual and customary for that area, especially if other ps' in the area are only charging $4000 for the same procedure. Of course, you may also have a higher cost if you see a doc associated with a large, world renowned facility and docs. If Dr. Feng is associated with the Cleveland Clinic, then her fees will naturally be higher because of the "level of expertise" you are supposedly getting. I have known many pts who have sought medical advice for one reason or another with various specialists, and while they start off in their hometown or state, and the fees are less, they then may go the Mayo Clinic and suddenly to see a doc at the Mayo Clinic the cost of the visit triples.

And just because I agree with -Marie, doesn't mean I am negating the expertise and knowledge of Feng or any other ps for that matter. It just really is relative, and what is most important is to find a doc that you feel comfortable with and trust and can develop a rapport with. Whether this means paying more or less, what matters is YOU.

e

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:50 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

I'm glad Feng worked out for you --truly. She did right by you. But you're not everyone again, we are all different with different health care needs.Sometimes you get what you pay for? That's not necessarily a good argument--well, then again maybe it is in my case--I paid big bucks for my mastopexy and paid for my results in a BIG WAY. I paid 6,500 for a mastopexy from hell. He used staples instead of inside sutures. Do you think I was bargain shopping at 6,500 in 1998? I don't think so.I don't think it's wise to judge a doctor's competence or results in PS by what you pay. Ang paid 5,000 (for lift/explant and has good results (not that I recommend Gordon, mind you). Had I gone to Gordon with virgin breasts, he would have given me better results than my 6,500 doc. I may not like Gordon, but this is true.Furthermore, I paid 450.00 for a dermatology appointment with this one doc, turns out the guy who charged me 95.00 was a better doc all the way around--had a much better understanding of my condition. I used to think that prestigious areas, fancy offices, and expensive was better--this is a myth I learned the hard way. I'll never forget the expensive allure of that PS's office and how I let it seduce me...........-Marie

[Guest guest]

Thanks, -Marie,

'Makes me feel good to know I may be serving some good purpose here, other than being a subject for criticism!

MM

[Guest guest]

Martha:

The doc who refuses to use implants--sounds like a good dude. Do you have his/her name? Does hew have great credentials and good technique? Also, is he a rip off? Thanks.

LM

[Guest guest]

Dear Martha:

I think you are a VERY valuable member to this forum. I find your information to be helpful. I can't imagine why anybody would criticize you.

Take care,

-Marie

[Guest guest]

I have been reading throught the posts and feel I missed something, was someone critisizing of you Martha?

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: Dr. Spear--To Dr Kolb et al

Dear Martha:I think you are a VERY valuable member to this forum. I find your information to be helpful. I can't imagine why anybody would criticize you.Take care,-Marie