Re: Your continuing symptoms

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Just to let you know, I've been tied up at work and will get back to

you tonight or this weekend. Thanks! And I appreciate your

comments. Will write soon.

>

> So sorry you are having those symptoms, . Sounds like you

need

> Armour to me, too. Are you having a more difficult time tolerating

> increases now? Are your other indices like the iron tests, DHEA,

> B12, estrogens, etc. still low? Sorry if you already mentioned

these

> earlier. I've had the teeth hurting symptom, too, especially when

> there is an onset of a cold or flu. It's almost like an early

> warning system. I'm still on my anti-anxiety med, clonazepam, and

my

> anti-depressant, nortriptyline, although I've been able to slowly

> lower the ad and still feel ok. I think it might be disturbing my

> sleep a bit, but I'm hoping it's just temporary withdrawl side

> effect. I would have to say I don't know what I would have done

> without the aa and ad meds. I'll be very glad if I can eventually

> get off of both of them. Were you ever on any aa's or ad's? If

not,

> would you consider low doses to give yourself some relief and rest

> until you can get more Armour in your system? I know it's a very

> personal issue, but I hate to see anyone suffer if taking a med

> short term can help them. And were you ever on anything like

> Prilosec to see if it helped?....Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara,

Finally got a chance to reply to your post! Wow, it's been hard

going back to work full-time. Even harder than I thought,

sometimes. When I think of how Dr. R. says Hashi patients should

avoid as much stress as possible, I wonder if I've made a terrible

mistake. On the other hand, we need the $$ and insurance. After

two weeks I'm not sure I can do it anyway. Some days are better

than others.

I haven't had an Armour increase in several months. My last FT3 in

July was rather high (6.1 on a scale of 2.3-4.2) but the FT4 was low

(1.17 with a range of .73-1.95). TSH suppressed. Just took my

basal temps for 10 days and faxed them in, so we'll see what

happens. They seemed low still, not much higher than last summer,

but a bit higher. My last ferritin was 43 which is a tremendous

improvement but DHEA is still low. I'm not sure how my estrogen

levels stand. I've never been menstrually regular so I think it

would be difficult to test. The last time I was on estrogen for

female troubles, my neck/shoulder pain was unbearable.

Several years ago, a doctor was convinced that anti-deps would help

me with neck/shoulder pain and we tried several but I always had bad

reactions. So that's not an option for me. I took one tricyclic

once and it was horrible for me. I've been on xanax for several

years mostly to help w/sleep and also lorazepam. Anxiety issues are

returning with the stress of working and my internist here wants to

wean me off totally. I also have terrible chronic pain issues which

I take hydrocodone for. I don't know what's worse, the pain or the

sedating, groggy effects of the hydrocodone -- I wouldn't take it if

I didn't have to. Doctor here is cutting me back to 1/3 without

addressing the underlying issues. What a drag. Says I need to

walk. I walked for 30 minutes this afternoon and ended up with more

pain than when I started. I tried to tell him that I wanted to

address the aa's and pain meds after I was on a beneficial amount of

Armour but he doesn't think that will make a difference. I think he

has had the cranio-rectal procedure already. The pain meds aren't

even helping that much anymore. That probably contributes to the

pain and anxiety as well.

Sorry, didn't mean to blather on. I just want to give the Armour a

chance because it has helped so many people with chronic things. I

was on omeprazole but had the runs for months. I don't think I was

digesting any nutrients. I guess I probably need a pain management

physician. Just can't do it right now. If anybody has any

suggestions, I'm open to them. I've heard that adding T4 can

sometimes help too, I just don't know.

Thanks again for your suggestions and kind thoughts.

>

> So sorry you are having those symptoms, . Sounds like you

need

> Armour to me, too. Are you having a more difficult time tolerating

> increases now? Are your other indices like the iron tests, DHEA,

> B12, estrogens, etc. still low? Sorry if you already mentioned

these

> earlier. I've had the teeth hurting symptom, too, especially when

> there is an onset of a cold or flu. It's almost like an early

> warning system. I'm still on my anti-anxiety med, clonazepam, and

my

> anti-depressant, nortriptyline, although I've been able to slowly

> lower the ad and still feel ok. I think it might be disturbing my

> sleep a bit, but I'm hoping it's just temporary withdrawl side

> effect. I would have to say I don't know what I would have done

> without the aa and ad meds. I'll be very glad if I can eventually

> get off of both of them. Were you ever on any aa's or ad's? If

not,

> would you consider low doses to give yourself some relief and rest

> until you can get more Armour in your system? I know it's a very

> personal issue, but I hate to see anyone suffer if taking a med

> short term can help them. And were you ever on anything like

> Prilosec to see if it helped?....Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn,

I will keep the Effexor in mind, although I think it's one that I

did try several years ago. It seems to me that people who are on

anti-depressants eventually go on to lose their personalities! It

happened to my sister. They also seem to cause a lot of anger. I

think the pain pills do too, because who wants to go round feeling

groggy and tired all the time? Of course, constant pain causes

grouchiness too.

The reason I said the estrogen caused pain for me is because I

believe what happened was I was on a very low dose of Armour, and

what little thyroid I did have got bound with the estrogen so it

made my symptoms worse.

Good luck to you too!

\

>

> ,

> If I forget my antidepressant, Effexor, I experience a lot of

pain. Effexor works differently than most AD, it blocks the uptake

of seratonin and norepinephrin.

>

> Some studies indicate that the brain reacts similarily to

psychic and physical pain and the meds for one work also for the

other. That is my experience. Your doc is wanting you to find

other alternatives than, or along with, the pain pills. An AD and

walking regularily can make a difference but you are probably right

that it is too soon.

>

> There has been a lot written lately about docs not giving enough

pain meds because they worry about dependency/addiction. It is the

psychological addiction that causes people to get stuck on a

chemical not the physical addication. Most people I have seen on

pain meds seem to have lost their personality, that is why I want to

avoid it if I can. I take Ultram for migraine, which works very

well. It is not a narcotic and might be an option for you. When I

am in pain it is difficult to even plan what to do to get out of

it. I didn't know Estrogen could cause pain! I've wondered which

medication I've started on has done it.

>

> Good luck.

> M.

>

[Guest guest]

That's an interesting suggestion, Courtenay. I wanted to try it

several years ago but my chiropractor at the time said he didn't

think it would work for me. But why not give it a shot? (no pun

intended!) Thanks for your offer, yes, if you have some connections

for finding acupunturists, that would be great! (That might be a

long shot in Wyoming ...)

>

> This is a long shot, but do you think you might find

> an acupuncturist in your area? I can help you look,

> if you want.

>

> Best--

>

> Courtenay.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, , all I can say is dammmmmmm.

I know the job stress is a major contributor. But as you say, it's a

must right now. Only you know how much of it you can take.

I've been into my post-menopausal phase for awhile now, and was

lucky enough my whole fertility period to only have the issue of

cramps that I could easily stop with Ibuprophen. I was very regular,

too. I spent about 10 years in peri-menopause though, and it was

checkered with the failing thyroid issue and attendant problems,

iron deficiency and anxiety disorder. I didn't have to deal with the

kinds of difficulties you are facing with the pain.

That's such a drag about the clueless doctor. You start a job and he

decides you should get off all your support meds. Your in severe

pain, and he says " take a walk. " Brilliant. Just brilliant.

I surely don't know enough to surmise the reason for the high

circulating T3 and low T4. Perhaps it's due to Hashi's causing

problems with the cells being able to use it? Maybe Jan or someone

can elaborate on that. Both were still low for me in July, but

coming up.

I guess I'm just lucky with most meds. The tricyclics are often not

tolerated by many due to sedation. Maybe you had a worse and

different kind of reaction than that. It really takes a couple of

weeks for most folks to get used to it. I was lucky in that I was

not working when I started it, I was so sick. I slowly got back to

work and with more activity really didn't notice it at all, until I

got better after several months and it became too strong again and I

had to reduce it slowly. I guess I'd rather be sedated than not

sleep.

As for me and Xanax, I was causing myself a lot of problems not

getting off of it sooner, as it kept me going up and down a

rollercoaster each day, with its short half life, fending of anxiety

attacks. Docs told me it was short term use only, and I was on it 18

months before I was totally off of it. I was better on the trycyclic

plus rest periods during my work day for a long time after that.

It's constantly fascinating to me about everyone's subtle

differences that make one thing work and not another. I lived a

nightmare on Paxil back in 1995, trying to deal with the anxiety

disorder. I stopped eating except for forcing Ensure for a month,

sleep deprived, 24/7 anxiety, lost nearly 30 pounds in 4 weeks,

could hardly walk. And the HMO a**hole doc, 3 weeks from retirement,

smiled at me and said, " Well, you needed to lose a few pounds, " as I

stared back at him, ashen face, from my wheelchair. DH almost went

across his desk and made his retirement plans nul and void.

I am so, so sorry about the pain issues you have. I would agree that

it is most likely feeding the anxiety, and adding stress. Since you

still seem to have low body temp, low DHEA, and the pain, I would

think it was the Armour issue. You said you have good ferritin, but

how were your other iron values like total iron, iron binding

capacity and percent saturation? I was way up in ferritin and up in

total iron, but still lousy in the percent saturation.

Aarrgghh, I feel so bad for you, . All I can do is wish for you

some resolution about the work issue and success with more Armour.

And I'd consider another local doc, but maybe that's not possible.

All good thoughts your way,

(((HUGS)))

Sara

>

> Hi Sara,

>

> Finally got a chance to reply to your post! Wow, it's been hard

> going back to work full-time. Even harder than I thought,

> sometimes. When I think of how Dr. R. says Hashi patients should

> avoid as much stress as possible, I wonder if I've made a terrible

> mistake. On the other hand, we need the $$ and insurance. After

> two weeks I'm not sure I can do it anyway. Some days are better

> than others.

>

> I haven't had an Armour increase in several months. My last FT3

in

> July was rather high (6.1 on a scale of 2.3-4.2) but the FT4 was

low

> (1.17 with a range of .73-1.95). TSH suppressed. Just took my

> basal temps for 10 days and faxed them in, so we'll see what

> happens. They seemed low still, not much higher than last summer,

> but a bit higher. My last ferritin was 43 which is a tremendous

> improvement but DHEA is still low. I'm not sure how my estrogen

> levels stand. I've never been menstrually regular so I think it

> would be difficult to test. The last time I was on estrogen for

> female troubles, my neck/shoulder pain was unbearable.

>

> Several years ago, a doctor was convinced that anti-deps would

help

> me with neck/shoulder pain and we tried several but I always had

bad

> reactions. So that's not an option for me. I took one tricyclic

> once and it was horrible for me. I've been on xanax for several

> years mostly to help w/sleep and also lorazepam. Anxiety issues

are

> returning with the stress of working and my internist here wants

to

> wean me off totally. I also have terrible chronic pain issues

which

> I take hydrocodone for. I don't know what's worse, the pain or

the

> sedating, groggy effects of the hydrocodone -- I wouldn't take it

if

> I didn't have to. Doctor here is cutting me back to 1/3 without

> addressing the underlying issues. What a drag. Says I need to

> walk. I walked for 30 minutes this afternoon and ended up with

more

> pain than when I started. I tried to tell him that I wanted to

> address the aa's and pain meds after I was on a beneficial amount

of

> Armour but he doesn't think that will make a difference. I think

he

> has had the cranio-rectal procedure already. The pain meds aren't

> even helping that much anymore. That probably contributes to the

> pain and anxiety as well.

>

> Sorry, didn't mean to blather on. I just want to give the Armour

a

> chance because it has helped so many people with chronic things.

I

> was on omeprazole but had the runs for months. I don't think I

was

> digesting any nutrients. I guess I probably need a pain

management

> physician. Just can't do it right now. If anybody has any

> suggestions, I'm open to them. I've heard that adding T4 can

> sometimes help too, I just don't know.

>

> Thanks again for your suggestions and kind thoughts.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wyoming is not nearly as big as Texas! It feels big though :-)

There's nobody in my area on the list; I'd have to drive a good

three hours. Thanks anyway, Courtenay.

>

>