Re: To -Marie

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeena:

No problem. Use my posts. I have no problem with that--especially if it helps her practice to run better and benefit future patients. Yes, I was pissed, but if something GOOD comes out of this, it's worth it.

Also, if you have any pull with Feng, PLEASE ask her to take care of . needs a few questions answered before flying out from NC.She needs some info to go on before coming out. I would consider this a great favor.

Thanks,

-Marie

[Guest guest]

Yes Jeena respect seems to have long been lost on this group and it has me

thinking that I will either leave this group and go to you group where at

lease womne listen and understand or else I have got to make major changes

in this group, I hate moderating posts but when they are full of anger and

hatred and critisism then I will do it, I have no problem moderating these

posts not because they are not full of some legitimate reasoning, but becuae

the anger is way out of control, -Marie doesn't want to see the good

that Feng has done and no matter how many women are happy with her work

Marie wants to critisize it and pu ti down and I don't get that, there are

far and few between PS's that help us and that is for sure.

I am so uset by my once peacful grou that has been torn to shrdes that I

will be taking a long break and if some of your anger and resentful posts

don't turn up that is the way it is, I am trying to help women not confuse

them like this useless dialogue has been doing.

-Marie you are totally wrong about me, I have been so kind and helpful

to you until you chose to become angry and put down a wondrful Dr that has

helped litterally 1,000 of womne, please try to find another that has done

as much to help implant victims as Feng, you will have a hard time.

Good luck to you I hope you get the problems fixed that you have and that

you will feel less angry someday.

----- Original Message -----

From: " el_jeena " <el_jeena@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:14 PM

Subject: To -Marie

> Dear -Marie,

>

>

> While I do agree that it is good to have a means to find out who is

> a butcher, not licensed, or not competent, I still think there is a

> certain amount of respect people should pay to one another.

>

> I very much sympathize and empathize with your horrible

> implant/explant/hair loss experience. I can do that, because I have

> gone through similar things. I would never presume to say you don't

> have GOOD REASON to be upset and bitter. Clearly, you have been

> going through a total nightmare with your appearance and health.

>

> Over the years, I have been privy to many misunderstandings. In

> churches, schools, on forums, (with acquaintances who have shared

> with me,) and in my own family. One thing I have learned about

> these things - MOST of the time, the problem is not that either side

> is evil nor that they are liars.

>

> USUALLY, the problem is in misunderstandings. While I am not saying

> your conversations with are untrue, I also feel that perhaps

> you and MISUNDERSTOOD EACH OTHER on several levels. In fact, I

> can't really argue with you about YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE, because I am

> sure you are not lying about what you perceive happened in that

> conversation.

>

> Because I know human nature, if I were to ask about the same

> conversation, I may get a totally different perception of what took

> place. Would she be lying? Probably not. People communicate on

> many more levels than just the WORDS they chose to use.

>

> I do know, if your conversations with went the way you

> described, and I have no real reason to doubt you - there was

> clearly some tension there. I would also venture to say, it was on

> BOTH SIDES. And I would also be able to assume that these negative

> perceptions most probably were the " cause " that they didn't get back

> to you.

>

> With all due respect, -Marie, you are a very intelligent, albeit

> opiniated woman. Your posts can be well meaning, but come across as

> highly inflammatory and intimidating sometimes. Because I know your

> story and experience, and I feel your heart motives are right, I am

> not easily offended by you. You have a right to your opinions and

> have much to offer. I find your knowlege impressive, your posts

> intellectually stimulating and your ideas challenging. I personally

> like you VERY VERY MUCH.

>

> However, I think you come across very STRONG and inflammatory in

> your posts, so I don't find it hard to believe that you came across

> very strongly in your emails to Dr. Feng. I also think your ability

> to write and express yourself is excellant to the point that

> your " tone " and attitude comes through in the way you word yourself

> on paper. Sometimes you come

> across very HARSH and your anger comes through.

>

> For some, it is quite intimidating...even hurtful and insulting.

> Your demeaner in the written word appears viscious sometimes - even

> a little threatening. Perhaps we are misunderstanding you sometimes.

>

> I don't think most medical professionals would find you that

> offensive, since many are very curt, to the point and strong in

> their opinions themselves. Most have enough self confidence to

> handle someone who is a " take charge " person in their own health

> care. But, others would maybe get a " red flag " in your demeanor,

> seeing you as a " HERE COMES TROUBLE " type patient.

>

> Please don't think I am trying to embarrass or insult you on a

> public forum. Too many of us were way too reticent to take charge

> of our health care and we trusted TOO MUCH. I am not asking you to

> change your mind about what you expect for your health care

> providers, nor to be take anything that is dished your way.

>

> What I am saying, is that I think you are coming across too

> agressive and perhaps your method of getting/giving information

> isn't always coming across in a tactful way.

>

> You are so darn smart, and most of what you are saying is so very

> valuable for people to know. I am merely suggesting that you

> learn " how to win friends and influence people " a little more, and

> be a little more tactful in the way you communicate to others. I

> find I get a whole lot further in life, by being KIND and VERY

> CAREFUL in how I chose my words. As careful as I am, there are

> still medical professionals that " RED FLAG " me, because they can

> tell I KNOW TOO MUCH. I have had to LEARN how to get them to do

> what I want, say what I need to know, and share with me what I think

> I have a right to be a part of. Call it manipulation - or call it

> communication skills, but there are ways to get what you want from

> others, and we all can learn more about how to handle others.

>

> Anyways, I hope my being frank with you, and expressing myself to

> you, does not cause you to feel badly towards me. I really don't

> want to hurt you...and I am sort of a " straight from the hip " type

> person. If I have something against someone - anyone - I am the type

> to GO STRAIGHT to that person and just say what I feel. Hopefully

> you won't misunderstand my motives and intents.

>

> As far as Dr. Feng's office - my guess is that they just didn't want

> to operate on you and were not willing to bend on THEIR OPINIONS

> about anesthesia and/or take the risk of doing something wrong in

> your treatment. Right or wrong...that is my guess. The chemistry

> was just NOT RIGHT between you and for some reason and you

> have every right NOT to use Dr. Feng, and conversely, they have

> every right not to call you back. At any rate, there is no doubt

> there were some major misunderstandings between you.

>

> My post was not to change your mind or your testimony about YOUR

> experience, but merely to state FOR OTHERS benefits, that your

> experience is NOT TYPICAL for the rest of us.

>

> You are very welcome about our posting your story on our site. We

> are glad to share your story. It is a tragedy of immense proportion

> and a perfect example of why we must shop around for the RIGHT

> surgeons for OUR OWN particular needs. I did not comment on the

> other Dr.s you expressed opinions about, because I do not know them

> or have any personal experience with them. Had I had a positive

> experience with them, I would not have called you a liar - but would

> have handled it the same way. I would have just told MY EXPERIENCE

> so others could form their own opinions.

>

> This is a very important forum and my main concern is that women

> feel GOOD when being here - not stressed. There is no reason why so

> many women with similar conditions and experiences can't find

> common ground and love each other and agree to disagree or get

> along. I think if everyone is kind, compassionate and CHECKS how

> they come across, this can be a real blessing and place of PEACE and

> UNDERSTANDING.

>

> Bottom line - I HATE STRIFE and arguing - but I love all of you

> ladies, who are my sisters in this implant journey. We have enough

> problems without getting into it with each other. All of you are

> GOOD PEOPLE and any disagreements do NOT have to be cause for

> maliciousness or strife. We may not all agree, but adults can agree

> to disagree and still get be kind to one another and not be

> intimidating or challenging. I really do care....but if I ever left

> this forum, it would not be because I chose " sides " or didn't love

> or care...it would simply be because I don't like negativity or

> fighting.

>

> Love,

> Jeena

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I love you, sweetie, but I am seeing YOUR anger coming through in

your posts as well. We all need to take a big, deep breath here,

and agree to be kind to one another on here.

One thing that we can ALL learn on here, is to NOT start sentences

with accusatory things. I really don't think -Marie is saying

we have not all had GOOD experiences with Dr. Feng or her staff, but

that she did NOT have a good one.

You have every right to moderate your forum as you see fit - in

order to keep peace and reduce the stress levels on the readers.

But with all due respect, your last post was a bit inflammatory,

too. You know I love ya....so you know I would be remiss to NOT

tell you this. Both of you need to call a truce here...and admit

that you are both showing some anger in your posts.

I think you have both been friends and can admit you both have very

good points and both of you have the SAME CAUSE here....

Hope we are all still friends...

[Guest guest]

Yes I was very angry in my last post and I am sorry and not above

apologizing I have been through allot of stress here and feel that

Marie is also going through allot of stress, but I don't feel this is

accomplishing any good, I am not above admititing when I am wrong at all and

I do apologize to and to all the members, I have had a tough day today

and feeling kind of blue about some personal things and then to top it off I

felt I was being attacked, of course I would like to call a truce with her,

she is and was my friend hell we even planned to meet in Salt lake City this

summer, so I am not above apologizing I was pissed not just because of this

but other issues too that I have to deal with, and I want to tell you with

deepest sympathy Marie that I am sorry ok.

Let us just aggree that we disagree on this subject, I will always love Feng

and I have really tried to find out why you were treated the way you say you

were.

Marie I am sorry I too can be a hothead when I feel I am right and

maybe I am not even right, one thing for sure, if I didn't have this spirit

in me I would most likely by dead by now.

Truce ?

----- Original Message -----

From: " el_jeena " <el_jeena@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:05 PM

Subject: Re: To -Marie

> I love you, sweetie, but I am seeing YOUR anger coming through in

> your posts as well. We all need to take a big, deep breath here,

> and agree to be kind to one another on here.

>

> One thing that we can ALL learn on here, is to NOT start sentences

> with accusatory things. I really don't think -Marie is saying

> we have not all had GOOD experiences with Dr. Feng or her staff, but

> that she did NOT have a good one.

>

> You have every right to moderate your forum as you see fit - in

> order to keep peace and reduce the stress levels on the readers.

> But with all due respect, your last post was a bit inflammatory,

> too. You know I love ya....so you know I would be remiss to NOT

> tell you this. Both of you need to call a truce here...and admit

> that you are both showing some anger in your posts.

>

> I think you have both been friends and can admit you both have very

> good points and both of you have the SAME CAUSE here....

>

> Hope we are all still friends...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I found Martha's point of view very helpful. A PS who will do house calls, explant, reconstruct, and charge an affordable rate is a GOOD THING--you can't beat that. I would never say that a personal who is a satisfied customer threw their money away. I think the point that Martha was making (correct me if I'm wrong) that the average person does not USUALLY have a lot of money to spend of the more expensive PS. Instead Martha is offering an alternative to those who can't afford an expensive PS--a doc who will do the same thing as the expensive doc. I know for myself being a single woman--no husband or family to help me--I MUST watch what I spend or I'll be broke and have NOWHERE to go. That is MY REALITY. Does that mean I will go to a cheap hack to save a few bucks? No way. I'm going to the Midwest to a well qualified PS who does better work than the city slicker who implanted me an is cheaper to boot. I'm pleased that I DON'T HAVE TO SPEND MORE THAN IS NECESSARY. Now if all PS's charged the same, then I'd have no choice but to pay the high price. But I DO have a choice, and Martha, bless her heart, is offering us another choice. I'm thankful for choices.

I will agree with that we don't have to get ugly about things but I don't want to be told how many times I can state a point either.

Here's the deal: the fact we all have had implants has brought us to this forum for information, support and possible friendships. I like that people have differing views and I for one am not threatened by that. I like learning new things and deciding what's best for me. Debate is GOOD. Things NEED NOT get ugly.

Take care Folks,

-Marie

[Guest guest]

Yes I understand as well, arguing was foolish of us and I will try to not allow it anymore

Dr Kolb is a great choice I think she is really good and has a way about her that is spirtiual and comfortaing.

Good luck

----- Original Message -----

From: evelyn s wilkins

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:46 PM

Subject: Re: To -Marie

I'm am just beginning on the search for the answer for me. I have implants since the mid 80s. I have numerous health complaints from head to toe including shortness of breath with a thick mucous w/o a known cause, major depression, intestinal problems, and fibromyalgia. I am in GA, and Dr. Kolb is looking promising, but I will take my time to make this decision. I need to know where to begin to start to document the medical necessity so my insurances will cover as I do not have $. Thanks for your response. I do feel it is important for members to give their opinion, but once is enough. And arguing does not change anyone's mind about the Dr. .....only about those arguing. But yes, I am somewhat patient (sometimes) and I too can get caught up in differences. But i just don't like arguing...it confuses the issue for me. And probably for others as well. Thanks again. in GA

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:46 AM

Subject: Re: To -Marie

Hi :Your point is well taken.Are you still PS shopping? Let us know what you need.-Marie

[Guest guest]

I'm am just beginning on the search for the answer for me. I have implants since the mid 80s. I have numerous health complaints from head to toe including shortness of breath with a thick mucous w/o a known cause, major depression, intestinal problems, and fibromyalgia. I am in GA, and Dr. Kolb is looking promising, but I will take my time to make this decision. I need to know where to begin to start to document the medical necessity so my insurances will cover as I do not have $. Thanks for your response. I do feel it is important for members to give their opinion, but once is enough. And arguing does not change anyone's mind about the Dr. .....only about those arguing. But yes, I am somewhat patient (sometimes) and I too can get caught up in differences. But i just don't like arguing...it confuses the issue for me. And probably for others as well. Thanks again. in GA

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:46 AM

Subject: Re: To -Marie

Hi :Your point is well taken.Are you still PS shopping? Let us know what you need.-Marie

[Guest guest]

I agree. I think that if the PS is good any other fringe benefits are great, but what matters most to me is that the PS does a good job and I don't think we should have to walk on pins and needles to express our opinions around here.

I am happy with my Dr and feel I was treated very well, I hope that we can all be so lucky.

Love

----- Original Message -----

From: perlesetlacet@...

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 2:43 PM

Subject: Re: To -Marie

I found Martha's point of view very helpful. A PS who will do house calls, explant, reconstruct, and charge an affordable rate is a GOOD THING--you can't beat that. I would never say that a personal who is a satisfied customer threw their money away. I think the point that Martha was making (correct me if I'm wrong) that the average person does not USUALLY have a lot of money to spend of the more expensive PS. Instead Martha is offering an alternative to those who can't afford an expensive PS--a doc who will do the same thing as the expensive doc. I know for myself being a single woman--no husband or family to help me--I MUST watch what I spend or I'll be broke and have NOWHERE to go. That is MY REALITY. Does that mean I will go to a cheap hack to save a few bucks? No way. I'm going to the Midwest to a well qualified PS who does better work than the city slicker who implanted me an is cheaper to boot. I'm pleased that I DON'T HAVE TO SPEND MORE THAN IS NECESSARY. Now if all PS's charged the same, then I'd have no choice but to pay the high price. But I DO have a choice, and Martha, bless her heart, is offering us another choice. I'm thankful for choices.I will agree with that we don't have to get ugly about things but I don't want to be told how many times I can state a point either.Here's the deal: the fact we all have had implants has brought us to this forum for information, support and possible friendships. I like that people have differing views and I for one am not threatened by that. I like learning new things and deciding what's best for me. Debate is GOOD. Things NEED NOT get ugly.Take care Folks,-Marie