Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 , During the winter here in Ft Lauderdale we have people in mold contaminated homes that are very sick from mold. I tell them to open their windows but they tell me that they were advised by a mold consultant that they should not. Go figure. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]I'm sorry, I should clarify that this was me snapping (I'm sorry thatI got mad, its not for his last post but its for some of the thingshe's said previously) at .The point that I was trying to make is that when poor people rent andthey complain about mold, more often than not the 'solution' that theyoften fight for months or even years to get is no solution at all, forthem.If they haven't moved already, obviously they will have to moveregardless of whether there is anyplace for them to go or not. If theyend up like me then they are so sick that they can't live in manyother places either.And they can't work in many workplaces.Look, let me spell it out just the last few days worth..I know thatfor me myself and I am in my 40s, too young for this, I can't go intomany places without getting ill. A few days my wife and I wentshopping for cheap - very cheap - GPS units because we both are notdoing well reading maps or finding places.. something I used to bereally good at - that ability is now literally gone.. fried..whatever..So we went into some of these big office supply stores and Iimmediately got a splitting headache. The result of this is that Istay at home and don't go out that much because unless the destinationis outdoors, I know that in many places I will get sick and I do. So Iavoid them unless its necessary.What the hell are people like me supposed to do when (if?) we recoverenough to start looking for jobs?So please excuse me for getting angry.. but I think we really needsome EFFECTIVE way of TESTING AND CERTIFYING WITHOUT A DOUBT THATPLACES ARE ACTUALLY REMEDIATED AND WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT INTO LAW...Then when you folks accept a job you will have a defined goal and youwill have to price your services to reflect its true cost. If thatmeans that insurance rates will have to go up so be it. By allaccounts insurance companies have been raking in record profits, evenwith Katrina etc. so I don't think that they will be impacted thatmuch.. The net result will be the purchasers of insurance will have todo better maintenance rather that rely on insurance companies to bailthem out of situations that are frequently and emphatically theirfault.if you don't maintain a building, you have problems.>> Oh the 'magic of the marketplace' , right?>> (I probably should not have brought this up to you because I didn't> want to give you ideas)> Finding fabulous fares is fun.Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 , Isn’t it moisture that is the primary problem? Let me explain; i.e. the A/C’s primary function is to remove the moisture 2nd is to cool. Once the moisture is under control the cooling effects are detectable or realized. In Canada (say 10 degrees) in relationship to the Northeast it’s cold although the air in Canada is drier. Due to less moisture the cold doesn’t seem to penetrate your clothing allowing one to stay worm longer. In Arizona under opposite temperature conditions (say 95 degrees) it is more tolerable due to less moisture in the outside air. Therefore moisture is the greater factor and the more moisture in the ambient air the greater energy consumption for cooling requirements. Based on the above, if you had dry air and applied cooling the cooling is not the cause of illness it is the amount of available moisture suspended in the air which can accumulate on building materials or substrates. Dew point and available moisture are the real issues before us. It is not the RH that is of concern as some believe and are taught (WRT). You can have RH of 50% and one would say there is no issue here (because it is being taught that the RH is below the 60 percent range). This may not always be true or accurate. Let’s take a look at any potential cold spots on warmer building materials or substrates. On these surfaces that are below dew point [which reflects the process of a dehumidifier (cold spot representing the cooling coils)] water accumulation will occur allowing for microbial proliferation to occur. Therefore water activity or available moisture on the building material(s) and/or substrate(s) is the real issue. Reduce the available moisture and microbial growth is mitigated. Bob/Ma. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Geyer Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 12:09 PM To: iequality Subject: Air Conditioning : All VERY well stated. And let me add a few tidbits regarding air conditioning. AC is the root cause of many of the ills we discuss on IEQuality. People demand creature comforts and they want to sit on their butts at 75F regardless of the outdoor temp. HVAC systems are not well designed for long-term health control, they are based purely on temperature control – ducts and equipment are not typically located/routed to be periodically cleaned or maintained, they become soiled and dysfunctional in a matter of 5 to 10 years, and they contribute to health problems of the occupants therein. If people would open their windows and allow the air to flow through their homes, moisture would be removed along with most of the VOCs and SVOCs that contribute to poor IAQ. Alas, but this would prohibit maintaining the 75F temperature that people has become accustomed to. In fact, many folks have become intolerant to anything over 85F. Also consider that this Country’s Founding Fathers decided to locate the capital (Washington DC) on a mosquito-infested swamp in order to limit the time politicians would spend being politicians, i.e., to avoid having career politicians residing in an “in-habitable” place. They felt, and wrote, that when politicians are politicizing, the common man should fear for his life, liberty, and property rights. Air Conditioning has really mucked things up! We now have career politicians that reside in D.C. who have no clue what us common folks need or do, and constantly pontificate laws that infringe on our rights. Moreover, some of the worst IAQ is in our nation’s buildings in D.C......all because of air conditioning! For what it is worth.... On 2/22/07 2:39 PM, " gary rosen " <garyrosen72652> wrote: Quack, It is not that simple. I'm doing a small remediation job for a woman that has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy. She was never sensitive to mold but now is. She is of modest means but not poor. She wants a mold free house. This means like new. This costs money. I was there to remove and replace part of her front wall which was water damaged. (Insurance paid her about 2x what I charged.) While there doing the remediation work I cut open her AC ducts. They were 25 year old rigid duct and were quite nasty. Her shag carpets are 15 years old. I explained that for her house to be like new (mold free) she would need new ducts as the current ducts cannot be cleaned. And she would need new carpet as the current carpet is way beyond cleaning. She has decided to have this work done. When done we will go back in and clean and test and provide a like new home for her. This is looking at the mold and allergen problems from a " whole house " point of view. You can't just fix a wall and then as part of that work and with some extensive testing somehow make the house like new. Often there needs to be big money spent on AC duct replacement, new carpet, mold remediation and sometimes replacing old fabric furniture and curtains etc. Poor people cannot afford this. What they can do is rip out the old carpet and open their windows to keep their homes well ventillated. In third world countries there is no increase in asthma or cases of mold illnesses since there is no AC and homes are open to the fresh outside air. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com <http://www.Mold-Books.com> Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...] I'm sorry, I should clarify that this was me snapping (I'm sorry that I got mad, its not for his last post but its for some of the things he's said previously) at . The point that I was trying to make is that when poor people rent and they complain about mold, more often than not the 'solution' that they often fight for months or even years to get is no solution at all, for them. If they haven't moved already, obviously they will have to move regardless of whether there is anyplace for them to go or not. If they end up like me then they are so sick that they can't live in many other places either. And they can't work in many workplaces. Look, let me spell it out just the last few days worth..I know that for me myself and I am in my 40s, too young for this, I can't go into many places without getting ill. A few days my wife and I went shopping for cheap - very cheap - GPS units because we both are not doing well reading maps or finding places.. something I used to be really good at - that ability is now literally gone.. fried.. whatever.. So we went into some of these big office supply stores and I immediately got a splitting headache. The result of this is that I stay at home and don't go out that much because unless the destination is outdoors, I know that in many places I will get sick and I do. So I avoid them unless its necessary. What the hell are people like me supposed to do when (if?) we recover enough to start looking for jobs? So please excuse me for getting angry.. but I think we really need some EFFECTIVE way of TESTING AND CERTIFYING WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT PLACES ARE ACTUALLY REMEDIATED AND WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT INTO LAW... Then when you folks accept a job you will have a defined goal and you will have to price your services to reflect its true cost. If that means that insurance rates will have to go up so be it. By all accounts insurance companies have been raking in record profits, even with Katrina etc. so I don't think that they will be impacted that much.. The net result will be the purchasers of insurance will have to do better maintenance rather that rely on insurance companies to bail them out of situations that are frequently and emphatically their fault. if you don't maintain a building, you have problems. > > Oh the 'magic of the marketplace' , right? > > (I probably should not have brought this up to you because I didn't > want to give you ideas) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Bob/Ma: For many, many years, AC’s primary function was temperature control; removing moisture was an ancillary and little thought of capability of AC. Moreover, the removed moisture was was, more often than not, thought of as a royal pain in the ass to deal with effectively, remove it, and maintain dry components. It is only within a recent 10yrs, that moisture control has shifted the basis/design for AC, especially in locations where the moisture load is significantly greater than the temperature load, e.g., Atlanta. Within the last 5yrs, ASHRAE has made some significant advances in providing design criteria for moisture removal and AC – the best systems being a dual-component installation (one a continuous-duty system to remove moisture and the other cycles to provide temperature control). Valin provided some very good design info to IEQuality a few months back on this very subject. Bottom line.....No, AC’s primary function has historically been temperature control and it is still that way in most (estimate 95%) locations. , Isn’t it moisture that is the primary problem? Let me explain; i.e. the A/C’s primary function is to remove the moisture 2nd is to cool. Once the moisture is under control the cooling effects are detectable or realized. In Canada (say 10 degrees) in relationship to the Northeast it’s cold although the air in Canada is drier. Due to less moisture the cold doesn’t seem to penetrate your clothing allowing one to stay worm longer. In Arizona under opposite temperature conditions (say 95 degrees) it is more tolerable due to less moisture in the outside air. Therefore moisture is the greater factor and the more moisture in the ambient air the greater energy consumption for cooling requirements. Based on the above, if you had dry air and applied cooling the cooling is not the cause of illness it is the amount of available moisture suspended in the air which can accumulate on building materials or substrates. Dew point and available moisture are the real issues before us. It is not the RH that is of concern as some believe and are taught (WRT). You can have RH of 50% and one would say there is no issue here (because it is being taught that the RH is below the 60 percent range). This may not always be true or accurate. Let’s take a look at any potential cold spots on warmer building materials or substrates. On these surfaces that are below dew point [which reflects the process of a dehumidifier (cold spot representing the cooling coils)] water accumulation will occur allowing for microbial proliferation to occur. Therefore water activity or available moisture on the building material(s) and/or substrate(s) is the real issue. Reduce the available moisture and microbial growth is mitigated. Bob/Ma. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Geyer Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 12:09 PM To: iequality Subject: Air Conditioning : All VERY well stated. And let me add a few tidbits regarding air conditioning. AC is the root cause of many of the ills we discuss on IEQuality. People demand creature comforts and they want to sit on their butts at 75F regardless of the outdoor temp. HVAC systems are not well designed for long-term health control, they are based purely on temperature control – ducts and equipment are not typically located/routed to be periodically cleaned or maintained, they become soiled and dysfunctional in a matter of 5 to 10 years, and they contribute to health problems of the occupants therein. If people would open their windows and allow the air to flow through their homes, moisture would be removed along with most of the VOCs and SVOCs that contribute to poor IAQ. Alas, but this would prohibit maintaining the 75F temperature that people has become accustomed to. In fact, many folks have become intolerant to anything over 85F. Also consider that this Country’s Founding Fathers decided to locate the capital (Washington DC) on a mosquito-infested swamp in order to limit the time politicians would spend being politicians, i.e., to avoid having career politicians residing in an “in-habitable” place. They felt, and wrote, that when politicians are politicizing, the common man should fear for his life, liberty, and property rights. Air Conditioning has really mucked things up! We now have career politicians that reside in D.C. who have no clue what us common folks need or do, and constantly pontificate laws that infringe on our rights. Moreover, some of the worst IAQ is in our nation’s buildings in D.C......all because of air conditioning! For what it is worth.... Quack, It is not that simple. I'm doing a small remediation job for a woman that has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy. She was never sensitive to mold but now is. She is of modest means but not poor. She wants a mold free house. This means like new. This costs money. I was there to remove and replace part of her front wall which was water damaged. (Insurance paid her about 2x what I charged.) While there doing the remediation work I cut open her AC ducts. They were 25 year old rigid duct and were quite nasty. Her shag carpets are 15 years old. I explained that for her house to be like new (mold free) she would need new ducts as the current ducts cannot be cleaned. And she would need new carpet as the current carpet is way beyond cleaning. She has decided to have this work done. When done we will go back in and clean and test and provide a like new home for her. This is looking at the mold and allergen problems from a " whole house " point of view. You can't just fix a wall and then as part of that work and with some extensive testing somehow make the house like new. Often there needs to be big money spent on AC duct replacement, new carpet, mold remediation and sometimes replacing old fabric furniture and curtains etc. Poor people cannot afford this. What they can do is rip out the old carpet and open their windows to keep their homes well ventillated. In third world countries there is no increase in asthma or cases of mold illnesses since there is no AC and homes are open to the fresh outside air. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com <http://www.Mold-Books.com> Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...] I'm sorry, I should clarify that this was me snapping (I'm sorry that I got mad, its not for his last post but its for some of the things he's said previously) at . The point that I was trying to make is that when poor people rent and they complain about mold, more often than not the 'solution' that they often fight for months or even years to get is no solution at all, for them. If they haven't moved already, obviously they will have to move regardless of whether there is anyplace for them to go or not. If they end up like me then they are so sick that they can't live in many other places either. And they can't work in many workplaces. Look, let me spell it out just the last few days worth..I know that for me myself and I am in my 40s, too young for this, I can't go into many places without getting ill. A few days my wife and I went shopping for cheap - very cheap - GPS units because we both are not doing well reading maps or finding places.. something I used to be really good at - that ability is now literally gone.. fried.. whatever.. So we went into some of these big office supply stores and I immediately got a splitting headache. The result of this is that I stay at home and don't go out that much because unless the destination is outdoors, I know that in many places I will get sick and I do. So I avoid them unless its necessary. What the hell are people like me supposed to do when (if?) we recover enough to start looking for jobs? So please excuse me for getting angry.. but I think we really need some EFFECTIVE way of TESTING AND CERTIFYING WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT PLACES ARE ACTUALLY REMEDIATED AND WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT INTO LAW... Then when you folks accept a job you will have a defined goal and you will have to price your services to reflect its true cost. If that means that insurance rates will have to go up so be it. By all accounts insurance companies have been raking in record profits, even with Katrina etc. so I don't think that they will be impacted that much.. The net result will be the purchasers of insurance will have to do better maintenance rather that rely on insurance companies to bail them out of situations that are frequently and emphatically their fault. if you don't maintain a building, you have problems. > > Oh the 'magic of the marketplace' , right? > > (I probably should not have brought this up to you because I didn't > want to give you ideas) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 I find a good working maintained Central AC unit does Asthma good. better than the heat and humidity by far. JMO Terry I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teddy Bear's Early Learning ProgramEstablished August of 1992 From: asthma [mailto:asthma ] On Behalf Of Siobhan Kai O SheaSent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:52 PMTo: asthma Subject: Air conditioning Does air conditioning increase or decrease asthma? No viruses found in this incoming messageScanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5http://www.iolo.com No viruses found in this outgoing messageScanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5http://www.iolo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Central air is the best and helps with asthma. I had a doctor tell me I needed AC with the asthma. Have a blessed day, Nicki We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 From: asthma [mailto:asthma ] On Behalf Of Terry Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:52 PM To: asthma Subject: RE: Air conditioning I find a good working maintained Central AC unit does Asthma good. better than the heat and humidity by far. JMO Terry I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teddy Bear's Early Learning Program Established August of 1992 From: asthma [mailto:asthma ] On Behalf Of Siobhan Kai O Shea Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:52 PM To: asthma Subject: Air conditioning Does air conditioning increase or decrease asthma? No viruses found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 http://www.iolo.com No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 http://www.iolo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Ditto.. both my asthma specialist and my pulmonologist say I have to be in an airconditioned house. Especially during high pollen season. Kathleen > > Central air is the best and helps with asthma. I had a doctor tell me I > needed AC with the asthma. > > > > Have a blessed day, > > > > Nicki > > > > We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in > despair; > persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. > > 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 > > From: asthma [mailto:asthma ] On Behalf Of > Terry > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:52 PM > To: asthma > Subject: RE: Air conditioning > > > > I find a good working maintained Central AC unit does Asthma good. better > than the heat and humidity by far. JMO > > > > Terry > I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He > didn't trust me so much. ~Mother > > > Teddy Bear's Early Learning Program > Established August of 1992 > > > > > > _____ > > From: asthma [mailto:asthma ] On Behalf Of > Siobhan Kai O Shea > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:52 PM > To: asthma > Subject: Air conditioning > > Does air conditioning increase or decrease asthma? > > _____ > > No viruses found in this incoming message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 > http://www.iolo.com <http://www.iolo.com/iav/iavpop3> > > _____ > > No viruses found in this outgoing message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5 > http://www.iolo.com <http://www.iolo.com/iav/iavsmtp> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I only have a room size AC unit but it sure does help. Keep the filters clean and keep it maintained whatever type of AC you use. God bless you! Subject: RE: Air conditioningTo: asthma Date: Monday, June 9, 2008, 4:32 PM Central air is the best and helps with asthma. I had a doctor tell me I needed AC with the asthma. Have a blessed day, Nicki We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 From: asthmayahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:asthma@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Terry Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:52 PMTo: asthmayahoogroups (DOT) comSubject: RE: Air conditioning I find a good working maintained Central AC unit does Asthma good. better than the heat and humidity by far. JMO Terry I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. ~Mother Teddy Bear's Early Learning ProgramEstablished August of 1992 From: asthmayahoogroups (DOT) com [mailto:asthma@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Siobhan Kai O SheaSent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:52 PMTo: asthmayahoogroups (DOT) comSubject: Air conditioning Does air conditioning increase or decrease asthma? No viruses found in this incoming messageScanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5http://www.iolo. com No viruses found in this outgoing messageScanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.3.5http://www.iolo. com __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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