Re: med change question for Steph

[Guest guest]

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y’all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well.

sue

[Guest guest]

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y’all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well.

sue

[Guest guest]

I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com. I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y'all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well.

sue

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..

Sue

Approx. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1 mg)

http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3

I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3.

The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com <http://www.armourthyroid.com> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y'all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well.

sue

[Guest guest]

http://www.armourthyroid.com/armourthyroid_pi.pdfThe information I gave is in this document. I think what you're reading is an equivalent dose of either T3 OR T4 but not both together.

I was taking 137 mcg of Synthroid and 37.5 mcg of Cytomel, and I switched to Armour at 2 1/2 grains.On 3/2/06, jytdtp <

justyourtypedtp@...> wrote:

Hi ,

Here's what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..

Sue

Approx. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1 mg)

http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3

I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3.

The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com

<http://www.armourthyroid.com> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y'all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well.

sue

[Guest guest]

That chart on the Armour site actually conflicts with the prescribing information, which would suggest that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 74 mcg of T4 only. That chart is confusing, too. It states that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 100 mcg of T4 OR 25 mcg of T3 OR 1 grain of Thyrolar. OR, not AND. In any case, none of the equivalency charts are very good. Armour is best prescribed by the exact amounts of T3 and T4. And what you may need is highly individual. 60 mg

of Armour does contain 9 mcg of T3 and 38 mcg of T4. Therefore, 2.25 grains (135 mg) of Armour contains 20.25 mcg of T3 and 85.5 mcg of T4 and is roughly equivalent to between 167 and 225 mcg of T4 only. In general, increases should be made in 15-30 mg steps. Your next dose should be 150 or maybe 165 mg. jytdtp wrote: Hi ,Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..SueApprox. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1

mg)http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3On 3/2/06 1:19 PM, "Betsy" wrote: I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com <http://www.armourthyroid.com> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon. Steph... At 2 –1/4

grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y'all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well. sue

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[Guest guest]

Betsy- If those doses were good for you, you might not be happy until you get to 240 mg of Armour which contains 36 mcg of T3 and 152 mcg of T4.Betsy wrote: http://www.armourthyroid.com/armourthyroid_pi.pdfThe information I gave is in this document. I think what you're reading is an equivalent dose of either T3 OR T4 but not both together. I was taking 137 mcg of Synthroid and 37.5 mcg of Cytomel, and I switched to Armour at 2 1/2 grains.

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[Guest guest]

The figures that you gave are Forrest's take on what is compared to what. Again, Armour has 38 mcgs of T4 and 9 mcgs of T3. Those equivalencies are one opinion, but the truth is that each person's body requirements were/are all different over a lifetime, from the time they are conceived in their mother's womb. Some sources say that actually one grain of Armour is equal to approximately 74 mcgs of synthetic T4. If a person has trouble converting T4 to T3, or their thyroid hormone cellular receptors are not working properly, then ANY of these figures are null and void. This is why symptoms must be considered first and foremost, coupled with looking at labs, while titrating thyroid hormone doses on any one person.

Re: med change question for Steph

Hi ,Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..SueApprox. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1 mg)http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3On 3/2/06 1:19 PM, "Betsy" wrote:

I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com <http://www.armourthyroid.com> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

Steph... At 2 –1/4 grains of Armour does that mean you are getting 250 mcg of T4? That just seems high — please bear with me as I try to sort this out with y'all — I am going in for a med change in the morning since my T3 is on the low side, and am trying to figure out what these numbers mean as well. sue

[Guest guest]

25 mcg T3 OR 100 mcg T4 - not both.

Hi Betsy, that's so strange that the info I have is from the armor site as well — it's saying 1 grain of armour is equal to 25mcg of T3 and 100 mcg of T4....

http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3

I need to ask my doc, thanks!

sue

[Guest guest]

I'm sure you're right. It's just a question of when I'll get it. Right now I'm waiting for some progesterone, which he thinks might help with the sleep issue, which then might help with the fatigue.I sure hope he's right.

Betsy- If those doses were good for you, you might not be happy until you get to 240 mg of Armour which contains 36 mcg of T3 and 152 mcg of T4.

[Guest guest]

That’s a mouthful... Boy it can be confusing... Where do you get your amounts from? Why would armour have wrong stats about their own med..oy vey, this is frustrating..

Thanks

sue

That chart on the Armour site actually conflicts with the prescribing information, which would suggest that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 74 mcg of T4 only. That chart is confusing, too. It states that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 100 mcg of T4 OR 25 mcg of T3 OR 1 grain of Thyrolar.

OR, not AND.

In any case, none of the equivalency charts are very good. Armour is best prescribed by the exact amounts of T3 and T4. And what you may need is highly individual.

60 mg of Armour does contain 9 mcg of T3 and 38 mcg of T4. Therefore, 2.25 grains (135 mg) of Armour contains 20.25 mcg of T3 and 85.5 mcg of T4 and is roughly equivalent to between 167 and 225 mcg of T4 only.

In general, increases should be made in 15-30 mg steps. Your next dose should be 150 or maybe 165 mg.

jytdtp wrote:

Hi ,

Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..

Sue

Approx. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1 mg)

http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3 <http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3>

I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3.

The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com <http://www.armourthyroid.com> <http://www.armourthyroid.com/> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

[Guest guest]

— I am not stating anything as “fact” -I gave the source as armour’s site and made it clear I was asking and not telling- please try to understand I am someone with a disease here just like everyone else. I feel “attacked” a little by you — could just be my hormones...?

Sue

The figures that you gave are Forrest's take on what is compared to what. Again, Armour has 38 mcgs of T4 and 9 mcgs of T3. Those equivalencies are one opinion, but the truth is that each person's body requirements were/are all different over a lifetime, from the time they are conceived in their mother's womb. Some sources say that actually one grain of Armour is equal to approximately 74 mcgs of synthetic T4. If a person has trouble converting T4 to T3, or their thyroid hormone cellular receptors are not working properly, then ANY of these figures are null and void. This is why symptoms must be considered first and foremost, coupled with looking at labs, while titrating thyroid hormone doses on any one person.

Re: med change question for Steph

Hi ,

Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..

Sue

[Guest guest]

Dr. R will eventually get you where you need to be, but he tends to go slow once you get to 180 mg. You may need to push him a little and remind him that you are a thycan and need to get your TSH supressed ASAP.Betsy wrote: I'm sure you're right. It's just a question of when I'll get it. Right now I'm waiting for some progesterone, which he thinks might help with the sleep issue, which then might help with the fatigue.I sure hope he's right. Betsy- If those doses were good for you, you might not be happy until you get to 240 mg of Armour which contains 36 mcg of T3 and 152 mcg of T4.

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[Guest guest]

They are saying AND not or... Since armour IS both...

sue

25 mcg T3 OR 100 mcg T4 - not both.

Hi Betsy, that's so strange that the info I have is from the armor site as well — it's saying 1 grain of armour is equal to 25mcg of T3 and 100 mcg of T4....

http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3

I need to ask my doc, thanks!

sue

[Guest guest]

The equivalency amounts on the ArmourThyroid site are conservative starting doses. But with any T3 meds, it is best to start low and increase slowly.jytdtp wrote: That’s a mouthful... Boy it can be confusing... Where do you get your amounts from? Why would armour have wrong stats about their own med..oy vey, this is frustrating..Thankssue That chart on the Armour site actually conflicts with the prescribing information, which would

suggest that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 74 mcg of T4 only. That chart is confusing, too. It states that 60 mg of Armour is equivalent to 100 mcg of T4 OR 25 mcg of T3 OR 1 grain of Thyrolar. OR, not AND. In any case, none of the equivalency charts are very good. Armour is best prescribed by the exact amounts of T3 and T4. And what you may need is highly individual. 60 mg of Armour does contain 9 mcg of T3 and 38 mcg of T4. Therefore, 2.25 grains (135 mg) of Armour contains 20.25 mcg of T3 and 85.5 mcg of T4 and is roughly equivalent to between 167 and 225 mcg of T4 only. In general, increases should be made in 15-30 mg steps. Your next dose should be 150 or maybe 165 mg. jytdtp wrote: Hi ,Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am

not sure..SueApprox. Dose Equivalent 1 grain (60 mg) is equivalent to: 25 mcg T3 T 00 mcg T4( .1 mg)http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3 <http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html#q3> I think that 1 grain of Armour has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T3. The info may be in the prescribing information on www.armourthyroid.com <http://www.armourthyroid.com> <http://www.armourthyroid.com/> . I just looked at it, but I don't have the patience to read all that fine print this afternoon.

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[Guest guest]

Strength of T3 is approximately 4 times or so stronger as a bolus amt, so 25 mcgs T3 Xs 4 = 100 mcgs of T4, and then they SAY that 100 mcgs of T4 is approximately equal to one grain or 60 mgs of Armour, but some believe that it's more like 74 mcgs T4 = one grain (60 mgs) of Armour. There is a little difference of opinion on this. I really think that it's more like comparing apples and oranges, from person to person, because everyone's body processes different things differently. It's kind of hard to compare this and that, when one person feels great on the proper amts of a T4 med, yet someone else feels like they are dying on what would ordinarily be a proper amt of it, and can only feel well with the Armour (or other pig thyroid). Some people even good ONLY on straaight T3, as it may take that much of a constant bolus for them to "run right". It is sooooo individual.

Re: med change question for Steph

They are saying AND not or... Since armour IS both...sue

25 mcg T3 OR 100 mcg T4 - not both.

[Guest guest]

Sorry you feel that way, not intended, just info and my take from what I've "studied".

Re: med change question for Steph Hi ,Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..Sue

[Guest guest]

There is a third opinion out there. Thyroid Manager states that 60 mg of desiccated thyroid is equivalent to about 82 mcg of T4 only. wrote: Strength of T3 is approximately 4 times or so stronger as a bolus amt, so 25 mcgs T3 Xs 4 = 100 mcgs of T4, and then they SAY that 100 mcgs of T4 is approximately equal to one grain or 60 mgs of Armour, but some believe that it's more like 74 mcgs T4 = one grain (60 mgs) of Armour. There is a little difference of opinion on this. I really think that it's more like comparing apples and oranges, from person to person, because everyone's body processes different things differently. It's kind of

hard to compare this and that, when one person feels great on the proper amts of a T4 med, yet someone else feels like they are dying on what would ordinarily be a proper amt of it, and can only feel well with the Armour (or other pig thyroid). Some people even good ONLY on straaight T3, as it may take that much of a constant bolus for them to "run right". It is sooooo individual.

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[Guest guest]

It is easy to have misunderstandings when communicating on the internet with someone you have never met. We have never seen attack anyone except bad doctors. . . .Then it's "Katy, bar the door!" wrote: Sorry you feel that way, not intended, just info and my take from what I've "studied". Re: med change question for Steph Hi ,Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..Sue

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[Guest guest]

,

You still haven't cited studies. There is a difference between opinion of

a doctor and a study performed by an outside source. Doctors are taught by

the pharmaceutical companies in school. Their clinical studies are

manipulated. I've never seen and actual case study on Armour vs

$ynthroid. Have you? If so I'd love to see it. The facts are before the

TSH test and $ynthorid, people were very successfully treated on Armour

Thyroid for years. There were no labs, just symptoms and temps. With the

advent of the TSH test Thyroid problems are no longer treated well. Why

because they keep people under medicated so they can give them a whole host

of other drugs!

Kate

At 07:47 AM 3/3/2006, you wrote:

>Sorry you feel that way, not intended, just info and my take from what

>I've " studied " .

>

>

>

> Re: med change question for Steph

>

>

>Hi ,

>Here’s what I see at the armour site so I am not sure..

>

>Sue

>

>

>

>

>