Re: Re: Smoking &amp; Health

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

July 31, 2005

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Cannon

>

>> Dr. Fine states that the genes are

>> basically a Western European (and their descendents) phenomenon, but

>clearly

>> that is not the case with all the celiac sprouting up in African

>countries

>> receiving wheat as food aid.

>

>Could that point to something else in the wheat that is either causing

>the disease, or a catalyst? How about pesticides? And is there

>mercury in pesticides?

I don't know Bob, but apparently gluten sensitivity is not so uncommon in

the Middle East either, so it's not just from wheat shipped in by Western

countries, as far as I know. I do think, at least in some cases, it has

something to do with the sheer amount of gluten in modern breeds of wheat.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

August 1, 2005

Connie,

Genes can also vary greatly in families. Brothers and sisters having

many genes from many different ancestors than the other.

Wanita

On 8/1/05, Connie Hampton <connie@...> wrote:

> The other piece to remember when talking about genes is that no

> human is 100% of any particular descent. We are a very mixed

> species and more similar than different.

August 2, 2005

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Masterjohn

>

>> Why would you develop a reaction if you don't have the HLA binding sites?

>

>Well if the proteins are leaking into your blood stream undigested,

>for example, I believe you would develop some sort of allergy to that

>food, regardless of what it is. I thought this was well-established

>and the reason that leaky gut led to intolerances of nearly

>everything.

Yes,, I believe it is. But I was specifically thinking of IgA reactions to

gluten. My understanding is that they either exclusively or primarily take

place IN the gut before reaching the blood stream. Maybe the blood stream

reactions caused by leaky gut are more IgG or IgE? I'm just not clear on how

one could have an IgA reaction to gluten proteins without having the binding

sites of the HLA genes that present the foreign protein to T cells? Perhaps

I just don't understand how this works well enough.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

August 2, 2005

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Robin Ann

>

>> ...apparently gluten sensitivity is not so uncommon in

>> the Middle East either, so it's not just from wheat shipped in by

>> Western countries, as far as I know. I do think, at least in some

>> cases, it has something to do with the sheer amount of gluten in

>> modern breeds of wheat.

>> Suze Fisher

>

>A side point: Is gluten sensitivity more common in the Middle East

>than in other areas or is that gluten sensitivity is just more " in

>the radar " there?

It's been thought of as being LESS common in the Middle East and in fact,

some of the prevailing theories about the etiology of the disease (such as

that presented in " Dangerous Grains " ) are based on the assumption that

GS/celiac is very rare in the Fertile Crescent. But I read an article

recently that said it's much more common there than previously thought.

Maybe due to better testing or whatever, doesn't matter. If indeed the

numbers are much higher than previously thought then it basically shoots

down the notion of selective adaptation to gluten due to the length of time

it's been consumed in various regions.

>

>For example, Italy is becoming known for having some of the highest

>percentages of people with gluten-intolerance and yet it is firmly

>within the so-called " Fertile Crescent " where grains first appeared

>and so people have had a bit longer to adapt.

That's not how the adaptation theory goes though. The idea is that the GS

genes would be selected OUT of a population because those with the genes

would die off before reproducing. So, supposedly, those who have been

consuming relatively large amounts of wheat in the Fertile Crescent for the

better part of 10,000 years would have a very low incidence of the genes.

But as you noted, that is not the case in Italy, and it looks like it may

not be the case in the Middle East either.

I'm guessing that

>Italy has a " higher percentage of celiacs " simply because they're

>the only country in the world to routinely test for it -- kind of a

>Catch 22 statistic...

Perhaps. It would be interesting to know what percents we are talking here

with the various populations. It's possible that as testing becomes more

widespread these old theories may be proven false about the distribution of

the genes. I suspect though, that there are probably other GS genes as not

yet identified in other populations that have not been tested much. This

would explain why Africans are being increasingly diagnosed w GS/celiac and

would explain why it may not be so rare in the Middle East.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/celiac_disease/stats-country.htm

----------------------------

August 2, 2005

On 8/2/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> It's been thought of as being LESS common in the Middle East and in fact,

> some of the prevailing theories about the etiology of the disease (such as

> that presented in " Dangerous Grains " ) are based on the assumption that

> GS/celiac is very rare in the Fertile Crescent. But I read an article

> recently that said it's much more common there than previously thought.

> Maybe due to better testing or whatever, doesn't matter. If indeed the

> numbers are much higher than previously thought then it basically shoots

> down the notion of selective adaptation to gluten due to the length of time

> it's been consumed in various regions.

Agree on the adaptation length theory

World celiac statistics

Wanita

August 2, 2005

>I probably understand it even less, but that's what I *said*

>initially. I said that I think Heidi has said you can become gluten

>intolerant without the genes, but that you would get a different kind

>of reaction with a different Igwhatever. I used the phrase

> " Igwhatevers " because I can't remember the difference between 'em all!

>

>Chris

>Gluten ignoramous, for real [heidi adds:] (but not for long!)

Right. You can get reactions to gluten without having the genes, but

they seem to be NOT the IgA reaction. It's hard to know what's

really going on though, because all the research focuses on the

people with a BIG IgA reaction and ignores the " small " IgA reaction

as " normal " . A person who is weakly reacting to gluten (IgA) might

feel pretty sick when they eat it, but wouldn't count in the research.

IgG reactions come and go, based on proteins that get into the

blood.

Heidi Jean

August 2, 2005

> Now the bigger problem for me is milk. I didn't want to give up milk

> because it has so many nutritious aspects to it, not to mention it's

> easy to eat and I love cheese...

> So if you're troubleshooting, it's harder to

> figure out about the gluten problem (I think) if you're still

> consuming casein.

Nice post ~Robin.

A few words about this.

I've been gluten free for 7 weeks now and I'm actually beginning to get

stronger in a substantial way that I have not experienced in the past 4

years of cleaning up my diet and life. I can't describe it any better than

that yet. I went GF despite some ambiguous test results and after the first

two weeks of hell I started to feel better. I also chose to go casein free

at the same time although I am not being meticulous about it and violate

that rule every night by drinking a big glass of raw goat's milk kefir which

I seem to tolerate well.

One of the more interesting things that has happened to me is that now that

I've got the gluten out of the way I'm getting much more clear signals from

my body about what it wants and doesn't want. So the other night I went out

to the movies and decided to take along some raw sheep's milk cheese that we

had bought at the market that morning. I probably ate about 3 ounces worth.

Whew boy! What a reaction! Pulse up, chest restricted, head fog. Yuck. It

passed in about an hour but I really saw how much my body is reacting to

something in most dairy.

So I agree with Robin -- if you choose to go GF then you should probably go

CF too, at least for a while.

Ron

August 3, 2005

Ron...

On one hand, you seemed to react okay to raw goat milk, but on the other,

you did experience a reaction to goat cheese. I don't see them as being

equal. Because you react to goat cheese, imo, doesn't mean you need to

lump it all into the " casein " arena.

For one thing, goat casein is A2 - the same type as Guernsey cow milk that

doesn't cause allegic/negative reactions. I've had great success giving

my Autistic son A2 goat milk.

Were there herbs in the cheese? Maybe it is an aging issue with the

cheese? Biogenic amines, something not discussed enough, imo, can cause

issues/reactions from fermented/aged foods. I'm sure I'm absolutely wrong

in someone's view, but I see too much good in goat milk to just simply throw

it all out because of " casein " which, imo, is a non-issue. Now, if we were

talking about Jersey cow milk, etc., that would be a whole different

story.....

-Sharon, NH

Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

" So I agree with Robin -- if you choose to go GF then you should probably go

CF too, at least for a while " . Ron "

August 3, 2005

Hi Ron, I seemed for months to be able to tolerate goats' milk yogurt just

fine. I was on the SCD for almost a year and had a couple cups of the 24

hour fermented yogurt each day. No problem (that I knew of.)

I stopped for some reason and then started again after a couple weeks and

had similar allergic reactions as you. It was just awful -- immediate

stomach pains and the whole bit. I am IgE allergic to milk and thought that

I must only be allergic unfermented cows' milk but now I can see that I'm

allergic to all milk, fermeneted or not. I think this is temporary but for

now I don't touch a drop.

In fact, I finally figured out what was slowing down my gut repair after

going gluten-free for a year and not getting any better. Turns out I was

inadvertently consuming some lactose in a homeopathic PLEO remedy-- a

suppository. Although that small amount of lactose shouldn't have been a

problem I decided to stop it anyway and with a week was feeling much MUCH

better.

I went from being near death a month ago (testing for lymphoma with a

refractory celiac diagnosis) to feeling the best I've felt in years so I

must be healing... That little bit of continual lactose must have been

affecting my recovery from the gluten..

~Robin

> One of the more interesting things that has happened to me is that now

> > that

> > I've got the gluten out of the way I'm getting much more clear signals

> > from

> > my body about what it wants and doesn't want. So the other night I went

> > out

> > to the movies and decided to take along some raw sheep's milk cheese

> > that we

> > had bought at the market that morning. I probably ate about 3 ounces

> > worth.

> > Whew boy! What a reaction! Pulse up, chest restricted, head fog. Yuck.

> > It

> > passed in about an hour but I really saw how much my body is reacting to

> > something in most dairy.

> >

> > So I agree with Robin -- if you choose to go GF then you should probably

> > go

> > CF too, at least for a while.

> >

> > Ron

> >

>

August 3, 2005

Ron-

>I also chose to go casein free

>at the same time although I am not being meticulous about it and violate

>that rule every night by drinking a big glass of raw goat's milk kefir which

>I seem to tolerate well.

Isn't that like saying " I'm a vegan except every night I have a steak " ?

-

August 3, 2005

Hi Sharon,

> On one hand, you seemed to react okay to raw goat milk, but

> on the other,

> you did experience a reaction to goat cheese.

It was raw sheep's milk cheese. So we have yet a different source of

casein.

> I don't see

> them as being

> equal. Because you react to goat cheese, imo, doesn't mean

> you need to

> lump it all into the " casein " arena.

I agree. As pointed out nicely in another post deciding to go casein

free and then drinking goat's milk doesn't fit in an absolute sense. So I'm

not really casein free. What I didn't indicate in my original post is that

over the past year I've figured out that my body does well on raw goat's

milk but has trouble with raw cow's milk. At least the raw cow's milk that I

can get locally. When I visit Pennsylvania and get some completely grass

fed milk from up there I tolerate it fairly well.

So you are correct in spirit -- there is a difference between sources and

I'm not truly casein free.

I thought that Robin's comment in another post was interesting and I'll have

to experiment to see if I get the same result that she reported. For now

I'm going to continue with goat's milk kefir.

> Were there herbs in the cheese?

Interesting. Actually there were. It was a kind of pepper-jack sheep's

milk cheese. I don't typically have trouble with peppers, though. I love

spicy hot food.

> Maybe it is an aging issue with the

> cheese? Biogenic amines, something not discussed enough,

> imo, can cause

> issues/reactions from fermented/aged foods.

Could be. All I know is that I had a very clear and strong reaction and

won't be eating any of that for a while.

> I'm sure I'm

> absolutely wrong

> in someone's view, but I see too much good in goat milk to

> just simply throw

> it all out because of " casein " which, imo, is a non-issue.

> Now, if we were

> talking about Jersey cow milk, etc., that would be a whole different

> story.....

Yes -- a la my Pennsylvania people.

Ron

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

>

> > Cooking would more or less sterilize the bread, but it wouldn't remain

> > sterile for long. After all, leave bread out, and it goes moldy. So

> > in that two-weeks, there would definitely be fermenting action going

> > on, and although it might be somewhat left to chance, apecific

> > microorganisms are attracted to specific substrates, and I'm pretty

> > sure that what will come in to invade a piece of a particular bread is

> > pretty predictable.

>

> Hey, here's something weird, then: the

> mad baker of Hollywood uses old loaves of bread as displays on his

> table, and that is one thing he kept pointing out to me--more like,

> banging me over the head with--that, " this loaf of rye is four months

> old! " and still, it was soft and totally edible. I actually wanted to

> buy that loaf but he wouldn't let me.

> B.

He is keeping the good stuff for himself.

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, Sharon son <sharon@...> wrote:

> For one thing, goat casein is A2 - the same type as Guernsey cow milk that

> doesn't cause allegic/negative reactions. I've had great success giving

> my Autistic son A2 goat milk.

Milk is not milk is not milk. There are source differences stemming

from soil, genetics, feed, type of animal, a person's particular body

chemistry, etc. and no broad conclusion can be drawn about the

negatives of casein as a result.

Sharon, do you have any references for A2 versus A1. I am going to

write a milk primer for my website and the more ammo I have the

better.

thanks,

August 3, 2005

Just the stoke the fires one last time as I sit here puffing on my

pipe. Dr. s has written a book entitled, _The Health Benefits

of Tobacco: A Smokers Paradox_:

" The benefits of smoking tobacco have been known since ancient times.

The anti-tobacco fanatics are in a tough spot. Reliable scientific

research has turned up the horrible news that tobacco smoke is good

for your health. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Tourette's Syndrome, even

schizophrenia and cocaine addiction are disorders that are alleviated

by tobacco. There is even evidence that tobacco helps to prevent colon

and prostate cancer. You can't imagine there being any health benefits

from nicotine and the herb from which it comes -- tobacco. You are in

for a surprise, which I hope, will awaken you to the fact that the

news media can *lie* by simply not reporting the research presenting

the good side on a food or herb that is not politically correct. Let

me state here that I am not endorsing the smoking of cigarettes. When

you inhale smoke from cigarettes - and 99 percent of habitual

cigarette smokers DO inhale - you are not only pulling hundreds of hot

chemicals into the delicate alveoli of your lungs but you are inhaling

the smoke of burning paper. BUT EVEN CIGARETTES, if smoked in

moderation have been proven harmless. "

and

" The benefits of smoking tobacco have been common knowledge for

centuries. From sharpening mental acuity to maintaining optimal

weight, the relatively small risks of smoking have always been

outweighed by the substantial improvement to mental and physical

health, Hysterical attacks on tobacco notwithstanding, smokers always

weigh the good against the bad and puff away or quit according to

their personal preferences. Now the same anti-tobacco enterprise that

has spent billions demonizing the pleasure of smoking is providing

additional reasons to smoke. Alzheimer's, Parkinson 's, Tourette's

Syndrome, even schizophrenia and cocaine addiction are disorders that

are alleviated by tobacco. Add in the still inconclusive indication

that tobacco helps to prevent colon and prostate cancer and the

endorsement for smoking tobacco by the medical establishment is good

news for smokers and non-smokers alike.

Of course the revelation that tobacco is good for you is ruined by the

pharmaceutical industry's plan to substitute the natural and

relatively inexpensive tobacco plant with their overpriced and

ineffective nicotine substitutions. Still, when all is said and done,

the positive revelations regarding tobacco are very good reasons

indeed to keep lighting those cigars - but only 4 a day... "

Only 4 cigars a day, LOL!

August 9, 2005

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Cannon

Have you ever heard of gluten insensitivity

>being associated with nearsightedness?

No, I haven't but it doesn't mean it's not connected. Heidi might know.

>ps I'm curious about starting a chapter here (Peoria). I assume there

>is info on the web site but how is it working out for you?

Yep, there's info on the website. It's working fine for me. Our chapter

meets monthly for potlucks which is always fun and we do various other

activities from time to time. This summer I've given the basic traditional

diets lecture twice and will give it a third time this Thurs. I really enjoy

doing this lecture. Sometimes I don't have a lot of time for chapter stuff.

I get calls and emails here and there, but I try to keep things limited to

emails because if I get on the phone with someone who's having health

problems I can spend a VERY long time talking to them about possible

therapies and I just don't have time for it. So I often refer people to one

of the WAPF-related lists I'm on.

Anyway, all in all, it's been a great experience!

p.s. Sorry for the late reply. I'm bad about that, often times.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics