Guest guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 This sounds all too familiar. My daughter suffers from contamination type OCD, so at various times she has been unable to touch virtually everything in existence. For long term help, you'll likely want to find a therapist trained in cognitive behavioral training (CBT) and exposure response prevention (ERP). For immediate help, check the book list at this site under the " Files " link for some good books that can help you start to make a list of things bothering your daughter and rank them in level of anxiety/difficulty (lower rank for things that bother her less) and start to work on exposures with lower level things so she can touch them again. You may already be familiar with exposures since your daughter has been in therapy. My daughter started therapy at age 11 and read Up and Down the Worry Hill: A Children's Book about Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and its Treatment, by Aureen P. Wagner, Ph.D. Maybe your daughter could read that book as well to understand what she's doing and how to get better. Several other books are on the book list too. If clothes are an immediate issue, try working with clothes that are less bothersome and work up to the hard ones. Gradually she should be able to wear more and more things. Buying new clothes won't work long term and letting your daughter avoid everything doesn't work either. Nor does trying to reason with her. I wasted way too much time trying to explain to my daughter that she was going to be nude because she couldn't touch any clothes. Good luck. Wish there was an easy fix for you. Dot > > > I did try to post this last night, but it hasn't appeared on the forum > yet, so I thought I'd try again....... > > Hi > > First let me apologise in advance for any impingement of forum rules or > for not using the right abbreviations, etc. I only joined the group > today and wasn't planning on posting for a while, but things have > started to get on top of me and I realised I have nowhere else to go for > advice at the moment. > > Without going into too much detail, my daughter is 10. She started > showing obvious symptoms of OCD at the beginning of 2010. Was seeing a > psychologist, but the case was closed a few months ago (we were told it > would be beneficial for her to have a break in therapy – but in > reality I think it was because she'd had more than double the > " usual " number of sessions and therefore didn't look good > for the nhs records). > > Anyway, rant over…… > > Basically without therapy she has got progressively work. Current > obsessional thoughts are around being poisoned from things that > have/could/maybe/not in your wildest imagination, have come from a > carboot sale. Compulsions are total avoidance of anything that MAY have > come from a carboot sale (or may be poisonous in any way – the list > is too long), or MAY have touched something that MAY have come from a > car boot sale. > > Bear in mind that my dad likes to visit car boot sales and often has > brought us items in the past. My daughter can remember a chain of events > of items touching each over a couple of years. > > We are currently in a position where she will no longer touch MOST of > her belongings, including mobile phone, laptop, all but a very small > handful of her toys and a limited amount of clothes/shoes. > > She has even taken to going out to play in the park in her pyjamas. > > I stupidly washed all her clothes at the weekend (to try to resolve) and > replaced every hanger with a newly bought one. > > BUT tonight she informs me that despite all the washing she is still > scared of all her tops (except for 2 vests and 1 other) and she > doesn't think further washing will make any difference. > > WHAT DO I DO? > > I know that giving in to her fears by buying more new clothes won't > help in the long run (or so I've read on numerous info websites , > but if I don't I fear she will simply stop doing all the things a > child or anyone should be doing (sports clubs, general family outings, > playing with friends). > > The clothes are only one of the issues, but I would appreciate some > thoughts. > > Apologies for the rambling post, but as you are probably aware, it's > difficult to be coherent when your child suffers with this horrible > condition. > > Thanks > > p.s. I have asked the doctor for another referral, but am still awaiting > an appointment. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 There is a really good workbook called Talking Back to OCD, by March. If you haven't read it, I'd recommend it. It might not specifically cover what your daughter is dealing with, but it can give you the idea of how ERP works, so you can try to apply it to her specific issues. With the contamination issues, our son took it slowly and worked his way up to the scariest thing. . The garbage can. For him, cleaners were an issue, so he had to put a " drop " of Windex on a paper towel and touch it, with his fingers, then not wash his hands. He did that once a day. Later, he had take the " Windex on the paper towel " and go around the house touching it to things he didn't want contaminated. It will make them feel anxious, but if they push through it the anxiety will abate, so that each time it will get better. I'm wondering if she would be willing to start with just having a piece of clothing near her that she feels is contaminated. Maybe she could just look at it for a couple of minutes a day. Then she could work up to just touching it, but not washing her hands. Then let it lie against her skin, to eventually work up (using baby steps) to putting it on and wearing it. Some can do ERP without meds, but if her anxiety is too high to attempt any of that, medication is often used to help lower the anxiety level to help them overcome their fear. Our son's OCD is moderate to severe, so he needed the assistance of medication. He also has GAD and some phobias that participate in his anxiety. Sometimes Yahoo groups has an issue with posts. Sorry that happened. Glad you were able to get it through this morning. ) BJ > > > I did try to post this last night, but it hasn't appeared on the forum > yet, so I thought I'd try again....... > > Hi > > First let me apologise in advance for any impingement of forum rules or > for not using the right abbreviations, etc. I only joined the group > today and wasn't planning on posting for a while, but things have > started to get on top of me and I realised I have nowhere else to go for > advice at the moment. > > Without going into too much detail, my daughter is 10. She started > showing obvious symptoms of OCD at the beginning of 2010. Was seeing a > psychologist, but the case was closed a few months ago (we were told it > would be beneficial for her to have a break in therapy – but in > reality I think it was because she'd had more than double the > " usual " number of sessions and therefore didn't look good > for the nhs records). > > Anyway, rant over…… > > Basically without therapy she has got progressively work. Current > obsessional thoughts are around being poisoned from things that > have/could/maybe/not in your wildest imagination, have come from a > carboot sale. Compulsions are total avoidance of anything that MAY have > come from a carboot sale (or may be poisonous in any way – the list > is too long), or MAY have touched something that MAY have come from a > car boot sale. > > Bear in mind that my dad likes to visit car boot sales and often has > brought us items in the past. My daughter can remember a chain of events > of items touching each over a couple of years. > > We are currently in a position where she will no longer touch MOST of > her belongings, including mobile phone, laptop, all but a very small > handful of her toys and a limited amount of clothes/shoes. > > She has even taken to going out to play in the park in her pyjamas. > > I stupidly washed all her clothes at the weekend (to try to resolve) and > replaced every hanger with a newly bought one. > > BUT tonight she informs me that despite all the washing she is still > scared of all her tops (except for 2 vests and 1 other) and she > doesn't think further washing will make any difference. > > WHAT DO I DO? > > I know that giving in to her fears by buying more new clothes won't > help in the long run (or so I've read on numerous info websites , > but if I don't I fear she will simply stop doing all the things a > child or anyone should be doing (sports clubs, general family outings, > playing with friends). > > The clothes are only one of the issues, but I would appreciate some > thoughts. > > Apologies for the rambling post, but as you are probably aware, it's > difficult to be coherent when your child suffers with this horrible > condition. > > Thanks > > p.s. I have asked the doctor for another referral, but am still awaiting > an appointment. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I would tackle only one issue at a time. I would minimize changes and surprises for now. I would not accept things from your Dad for now. Some people don't like surprises or change. That issue I would not tackle at this time. I would work with a small number of her clothes, pick really comfortable clothes like cotton t shirts and soft comfortable shorts for now. I would make sure if she has any allergies that you treat those. Colds, viruses, allergies, lack of sleep all trigger fatigue which just makes anxiety worse. Now you know the clothes are soft have no rough spots, so focus on her getting dressed. Is there any place that is safe for her to go that is unlikely to increase anxiety? A park, swinging in a swing. Encourage her, just as soon as you get dressed we will go to the park, swing on a swing, play in the blow up pool etc...something playful she likes to do. We will take your Barbies to a pool, a bike ride. My daughter's anxiety would peak again when we arrived at the park, as she searched for evidence of contamination, but we stuck with it because going home just makes it worse. I would distract her the best I could. And try to extend the time we spend at the park. Next day, try to go to the same place. The more you repeat the behaviors the less distrubing they will be. If you try to go to many different places you will overwhelm her. If you can't make process with a small set of comfortable clothes, and going someplace easy and fun (back yard, park close by, play in water bucket) then it is time to try medication if you haven't. Don't attempt malls, movies, stores these places all have a lot of sensory overload and anxiety makes the senses very sensitive. Keep it quiet, calm places that she likes to go to. The main thing is to reward and praise all small steps. Work on a few days getting dressed and going outside. Then work on getting dressed when she gets up and going outside. Very slow gradual steps. Ask her let's try to do just a little more. And praise any improvement. Keep it focused. Have her get dressed. If she says " I can't get dressed and cries " don't get upset, ask her to try on the top only. She gets it on, great!!! Ok your top is on, cheer her on, it is the anxiety making you afraid your clothes are fine. Keep going. When she says something is too germy and can't do it. Be confident, tell her it is just OCD/ or germy that is making you afraid. You have soft clothes, they are clean and it will be nice to go outside (park or library etc). It can be exhausting. Don't apply pressure. Encourage. If this doesn't work, try pretending she is getting dressed and we are going out to the park and you are having fun. Get dressed and let's pretend. Then walk through it all. If this doesn't work, talk about programs at the library, or going for an ice cream (somewhere very easy and quiet, like a walk up stand) help her visualize being able to do things. Don't avoid talking about fun things. Encourage her, tommorrow I hope we can get up and get out for Mc's pancakes ...a walk to the park whatever ... expect it to happen and be positive. Praise any steps. If she gets dressed but can't go out, leave it at that, don't pressure. Say things like I hope we can go get pancakes tommorrow. And then go make breakfast at home, don't make her feel bad. If this type of measures just don't make a difference than you know she needs an anti-depressant or a change in her medication. There should be some small increment of progress with exposure therapy. Pam > > > I did try to post this last night, but it hasn't appeared on the forum > yet, so I thought I'd try again....... > > Hi > > First let me apologise in advance for any impingement of forum rules or > for not using the right abbreviations, etc. I only joined the group > today and wasn't planning on posting for a while, but things have > started to get on top of me and I realised I have nowhere else to go for > advice at the moment. > > Without going into too much detail, my daughter is 10. She started > showing obvious symptoms of OCD at the beginning of 2010. Was seeing a > psychologist, but the case was closed a few months ago (we were told it > would be beneficial for her to have a break in therapy – but in > reality I think it was because she'd had more than double the > " usual " number of sessions and therefore didn't look good > for the nhs records). > > Anyway, rant over…… > > Basically without therapy she has got progressively work. Current > obsessional thoughts are around being poisoned from things that > have/could/maybe/not in your wildest imagination, have come from a > carboot sale. Compulsions are total avoidance of anything that MAY have > come from a carboot sale (or may be poisonous in any way – the list > is too long), or MAY have touched something that MAY have come from a > car boot sale. > > Bear in mind that my dad likes to visit car boot sales and often has > brought us items in the past. My daughter can remember a chain of events > of items touching each over a couple of years. > > We are currently in a position where she will no longer touch MOST of > her belongings, including mobile phone, laptop, all but a very small > handful of her toys and a limited amount of clothes/shoes. > > She has even taken to going out to play in the park in her pyjamas. > > I stupidly washed all her clothes at the weekend (to try to resolve) and > replaced every hanger with a newly bought one. > > BUT tonight she informs me that despite all the washing she is still > scared of all her tops (except for 2 vests and 1 other) and she > doesn't think further washing will make any difference. > > WHAT DO I DO? > > I know that giving in to her fears by buying more new clothes won't > help in the long run (or so I've read on numerous info websites , > but if I don't I fear she will simply stop doing all the things a > child or anyone should be doing (sports clubs, general family outings, > playing with friends). > > The clothes are only one of the issues, but I would appreciate some > thoughts. > > Apologies for the rambling post, but as you are probably aware, it's > difficult to be coherent when your child suffers with this horrible > condition. > > Thanks > > p.s. I have asked the doctor for another referral, but am still awaiting > an appointment. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hi, Glad you found this site. The books and advice others have mentioned are a good start. It is key to get with the right people/therapists/doctors who understand CBT/ERP and your medical options. I don't see that anyone mentioned PANDAS (Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder ASsociated with STrep) or PITAND (Pediatric Infection Triggered Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder) as possible things to explore as a cause for your daughter's OCD. Many people are finding that an infection and inappropriate immune response result in neuropsychiatric symptoms, including OCD. This is the case with my daughter, whose symptoms are very similar to yours. She started exhibiting germ contamination OCD fears in the fall of 2009 when she was 7. We treated with therapy, but it did not help much. Thanks to people on this forum, we looked into PANDAS. It ends up, my dd tested positive for strep (without any strep symptoms). So she was diagnosed with PANDAS. We put her on antibiotics and she improved very rapidly. By the end of the summer, she was doing great. Unfortunately, she declined in the winter again. But we then had her tested for Lyme and co-infections. She tested positive for Bartonella. Once we began treating that infection, she started to improve as well. She's now functioning around 80%. At this point we don't know whether she has PANDAS, whether it's been PITAND all along (due to the Bartonella) or both. But it is pretty clear, infection is playing a huge role. You mentioned the OCD started last year. Was she sick at all prior to they symptoms starting? Given where you live/vactaion, is it possible that she has been bitten by a tick? I highly recommend you at least educate yourself about PANDAS/PITAND to see if it makes sense to explore that route. Therapy alone will do very little to help your child if an infection is causing the problem. And psychiatric medications traditionally prescribed to help with OCD (anti-depressants) can often cause things to get worse in a child with PANDAS/PITAND. Here are a few sites to get your started: www.pandasresourcenetwork.org www.pandasnetwork.org www.webpediatrics.com And, just in case this all sounds a little off-beat and you need something official recognizing these disorders, here is a post by the Director of the National Institute of Mental Health indicating there is enough evidence to support exploring PANDAS further. They have begun research studies already. There is some information in the " files " section of this website to help you get started (look in the blue box in the upper left hand corner of the page and you will see the " files " link). I'm happy to answer any questions you have either on-line or off (just click to email me if you want to do so privately). Finally, another on-line support group where you can get lots of questions about PANDAS/PITAND answered can be found on Latitudes. Here is a link to the group. http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php I hope this helps in some way. Kara > > > I did try to post this last night, but it hasn't appeared on the forum > yet, so I thought I'd try again....... > > Hi > > First let me apologise in advance for any impingement of forum rules or > for not using the right abbreviations, etc. I only joined the group > today and wasn't planning on posting for a while, but things have > started to get on top of me and I realised I have nowhere else to go for > advice at the moment. > > Without going into too much detail, my daughter is 10. She started > showing obvious symptoms of OCD at the beginning of 2010. Was seeing a > psychologist, but the case was closed a few months ago (we were told it > would be beneficial for her to have a break in therapy – but in > reality I think it was because she'd had more than double the > " usual " number of sessions and therefore didn't look good > for the nhs records). > > Anyway, rant over…… > > Basically without therapy she has got progressively work. Current > obsessional thoughts are around being poisoned from things that > have/could/maybe/not in your wildest imagination, have come from a > carboot sale. Compulsions are total avoidance of anything that MAY have > come from a carboot sale (or may be poisonous in any way – the list > is too long), or MAY have touched something that MAY have come from a > car boot sale. > > Bear in mind that my dad likes to visit car boot sales and often has > brought us items in the past. My daughter can remember a chain of events > of items touching each over a couple of years. > > We are currently in a position where she will no longer touch MOST of > her belongings, including mobile phone, laptop, all but a very small > handful of her toys and a limited amount of clothes/shoes. > > She has even taken to going out to play in the park in her pyjamas. > > I stupidly washed all her clothes at the weekend (to try to resolve) and > replaced every hanger with a newly bought one. > > BUT tonight she informs me that despite all the washing she is still > scared of all her tops (except for 2 vests and 1 other) and she > doesn't think further washing will make any difference. > > WHAT DO I DO? > > I know that giving in to her fears by buying more new clothes won't > help in the long run (or so I've read on numerous info websites , > but if I don't I fear she will simply stop doing all the things a > child or anyone should be doing (sports clubs, general family outings, > playing with friends). > > The clothes are only one of the issues, but I would appreciate some > thoughts. > > Apologies for the rambling post, but as you are probably aware, it's > difficult to be coherent when your child suffers with this horrible > condition. > > Thanks > > p.s. I have asked the doctor for another referral, but am still awaiting > an appointment. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 i tried responding to this, too, but don't see it. Did my response at least get sent to you privately? It was about PANDAS/PITAND and rather lengthy, so retyping is not in the cards right now.... Thanks, Kara > > > I did try to post this last night, but it hasn't appeared on the forum > yet, so I thought I'd try again....... > > Hi > > First let me apologise in advance for any impingement of forum rules or > for not using the right abbreviations, etc. I only joined the group > today and wasn't planning on posting for a while, but things have > started to get on top of me and I realised I have nowhere else to go for > advice at the moment. > > Without going into too much detail, my daughter is 10. She started > showing obvious symptoms of OCD at the beginning of 2010. Was seeing a > psychologist, but the case was closed a few months ago (we were told it > would be beneficial for her to have a break in therapy – but in > reality I think it was because she'd had more than double the > " usual " number of sessions and therefore didn't look good > for the nhs records). > > Anyway, rant over…… > > Basically without therapy she has got progressively work. Current > obsessional thoughts are around being poisoned from things that > have/could/maybe/not in your wildest imagination, have come from a > carboot sale. Compulsions are total avoidance of anything that MAY have > come from a carboot sale (or may be poisonous in any way – the list > is too long), or MAY have touched something that MAY have come from a > car boot sale. > > Bear in mind that my dad likes to visit car boot sales and often has > brought us items in the past. My daughter can remember a chain of events > of items touching each over a couple of years. > > We are currently in a position where she will no longer touch MOST of > her belongings, including mobile phone, laptop, all but a very small > handful of her toys and a limited amount of clothes/shoes. > > She has even taken to going out to play in the park in her pyjamas. > > I stupidly washed all her clothes at the weekend (to try to resolve) and > replaced every hanger with a newly bought one. > > BUT tonight she informs me that despite all the washing she is still > scared of all her tops (except for 2 vests and 1 other) and she > doesn't think further washing will make any difference. > > WHAT DO I DO? > > I know that giving in to her fears by buying more new clothes won't > help in the long run (or so I've read on numerous info websites , > but if I don't I fear she will simply stop doing all the things a > child or anyone should be doing (sports clubs, general family outings, > playing with friends). > > The clothes are only one of the issues, but I would appreciate some > thoughts. > > Apologies for the rambling post, but as you are probably aware, it's > difficult to be coherent when your child suffers with this horrible > condition. > > Thanks > > p.s. I have asked the doctor for another referral, but am still awaiting > an appointment. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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