Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 The group will not like this solution. However, you can install a fan in the crawl space and keep it under negative air as this will keep the fungal growth from entering the occupied space. I like to provide enough enough CFM's to make a minimum of two air exchanges per hour. See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Downeast: When I was performing a lot of construction work and we were faced with a a tight crawl space, AND we had to get into that crawlspace, we cut strategic holes in the floor....and went in from the top. However, if you are dead-set on physically removing all the mold, it may be more cost effective to demolish the whole floor system, remove it, and rebuild..........which is exactly why I often advocate leaving the mold in place and killing it with heat; in lieu of demolishing a structure. What is the lesser of the two evils? You decide. For what it is worth...... I have a problem and am looking for a new strategy. There is an approximately 5,000 sf commercial building (really it is an old country store with new section added on for offices) that is loaded with pen/asp in the crawlspace (seems to be concentrated visually on the floor joists and not the subfloor). The site is located in the southeast US in the coatsal plain. High water table is usually a problem but with the drought on our area not so much at the moment. There is no vapor barrier and no insulation between the floor joists. The problem is there is no room to work in there (anything form 0 to a max. of 24 " ). I have been in some tight spots before, but this one was TIGHT! We usually go for physical removal, treating, and coating in crawlspaces with a good vapor barrier. Here there is just no room to work. Short of going in from the top down, room by room, or just tear the thing down, I don't have a good idea. Looking for another way. Downeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Dear Mr. Geyer, And how do you address the remaining (or dead) particulate (spores and body fragments, etc.) that eventually will migrate back into the dwelling thus more likely than not coming into contact with receptors? I am not sure if you have kept up with the various concerns over he issues that surround the mold and its body fragments. Is your protocol for relief a temporary means or permanent? One must consider that the dwelling or unit owner most likely called in an EC due to particulate migration towards the occupied space. EnviroBob From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Geyer Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:05 PM To: iequality Subject: Re: Remediation delima Downeast: When I was performing a lot of construction work and we were faced with a a tight crawl space, AND we had to get into that crawlspace, we cut strategic holes in the floor....and went in from the top. However, if you are dead-set on physically removing all the mold, it may be more cost effective to demolish the whole floor system, remove it, and rebuild..........which is exactly why I often advocate leaving the mold in place and killing it with heat; in lieu of demolishing a structure. What is the lesser of the two evils? You decide. For what it is worth...... On 12/31/07 1:39 PM, " graybrian11 " <brianegrayembarqmail> wrote: I have a problem and am looking for a new strategy. There is an approximately 5,000 sf commercial building (really it is an old country store with new section added on for offices) that is loaded with pen/asp in the crawlspace (seems to be concentrated visually on the floor joists and not the subfloor). The site is located in the southeast US in the coatsal plain. High water table is usually a problem but with the drought on our area not so much at the moment. There is no vapor barrier and no insulation between the floor joists. The problem is there is no room to work in there (anything form 0 to a max. of 24 " ). I have been in some tight spots before, but this one was TIGHT! We usually go for physical removal, treating, and coating in crawlspaces with a good vapor barrier. Here there is just no room to work. Short of going in from the top down, room by room, or just tear the thing down, I don't have a good idea. Looking for another way. Downeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 We've been forced to depressurize a few crawlspaces as well. However, the 2 air exchanges an hour seems excessive. Our protocol calls for using a varible speed fan and increasing the fan speed to hit -0.02 pascals of pressure in comparison to the main floor. Obviously a leaky crawlspace will result in more air exchanges to get to the pressure differential, but I would be surprised it it is anywhere near 2 exchanges per hour. Then again, I'm not the engineer of our group! ...maybe I should ask someone at our office to show me some calcs... Cassidy Kuchenbecker s Engineering > > The group will not like this solution. However, you can install a fan in the > crawl space and keep it under negative air as this will keep the fungal > growth from entering the occupied space. I like to provide enough enough CFM's to > make a minimum of two air exchanges per hour. > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 IMO, there are major problems with this stopgap solution. Wind, especially gusty days. The stack effect. You also need to worry about if the power goes out, even briefly, because then you have to attempt to re-clean everything. Sick people won't have the energy to clean up each time a strong wind blows the mold in and they will get sicker and sicker. Stopgap " solutions " are not solutions, IMO. I would try to clean the crawlspsce by removing the floors, cleaning with something like dry-ice blasting, with removal, then put in new floors, seal the floors extensively, seal them up with a full plastic shield of some kind, AND ALSO put the crawl space ventilators in. Then maintain the fans pulling so that a new problem would not develop. Leaving all that mold down there is asking for trouble, especially since people have already become sick (otherwise, why were you called in.) Without removing the mold it would only get worse. Heat may dry a space out temporarily but unless the root causes (moisture and probably years of mold growth and toxin production) it might make more sense financially to tear down and build over. Unless it is a historic structure or valuable for some other reason. Commercial buildings .. I doubt it. How much are the inhabitants lives worth? Things like working for several years above a crawlspace full of mold often makes people sick for life. > > The group will not like this solution. However, you can install a fan in the > crawl space and keep it under negative air as this will keep the fungal > growth from entering the occupied space. I like to provide enough enough > CFM's to make a minimum of two air exchanges per hour. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Are there structural issues or just the mold growth? Are there health complaints? If neither, what is the reason for doing anything? In addition to the pressure differentials and floor removal, the dirt can be dug out to create sufficient room to work (possible foundation issues). It's expensive but if it must be fixed then that is another way to gain access. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > I have a problem and am looking for a new strategy. There is an > approximately 5,000 sf commercial building (really it is an old > country store with new section added on for offices) that is loaded > with pen/asp in the crawlspace (seems to be concentrated visually on > the floor joists and not the subfloor). The site is located in the > southeast US in the coatsal plain. High water table is usually a > problem but with the drought on our area not so much at the moment. > There is no vapor barrier and no insulation between the floor joists. > The problem is there is no room to work in there (anything form 0 to a > max. of 24 " ). I have been in some tight spots before, but this one > was TIGHT! > > We usually go for physical removal, treating, and coating in > crawlspaces with a good vapor barrier. Here there is just no room to > work. Short of going in from the top down, room by room, or just tear > the thing down, I don't have a good idea. Looking for another way. > > Downeast > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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