Re: another weird fasting poop

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Yes it was. But is was meant to be funny. I need a break, I think.

Sorry for taking it seriously. I'm having a kind of irritating morning

arguing with a doctor elsewhere on the net and dealing with a few other

problems.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

>Suzanne-

>

>

>

>>Getting too

>>much foremilk creates gas and unhappy babies. Nursing on one side one

>>session and the other side the next session gives a better balance of

>>fore and hind milk and better satiation.

>>

>>

>

>Very interesting! Thanks for the info!

>

>

>

>

>

You're welcome....there's more coming.

--s

[Guest guest]

,

>Sorry for taking it seriously. I'm having a kind of irritating morning

>arguing with a doctor elsewhere on the net and dealing with a few other

>problems.

>

No need to apologize. I'm the one who's obviously just writing too

much. When I start arguing with myself like I was recently, well,

that's a good clue it's time for me to shut up for awhile.

I hope your day improves.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/23/05, Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

> And speaking of Wise Traditions, they do have a big article on baby

> formula in this issue with the caveat: breastfeeding is best. Hello?

> How many people would ever need formula? Very few women don't have

> adequate milk, right?

My cousin and his wife just had a baby a couple months ago, and for

some reason she uses both breastmilk AND formula. I not exactly sure

why, but what I have noticed is that the two times I've seen her feed

the baby there have been a lot of people around and she's used

formula, so I'm guessing she tends to nurse in private and just use

formula when there are a lot of other people around, not feeling

comfortable about it. (She's young, I think about 2 years younger

than me.)

Unfortunately, since the baby doesn't " like " regular formula, she-- on

her Doctor's suggestion!-- is trying SOY formula, which apparently the

baby " likes. " Of course, last night the baby only seemed to like it

for a few minutes. And about 20 minutes later was cranky and sort of

looking in pain for hours, which she said had been going on for just

this week (I'm guessing they started using soy formula this week?)

And now I feel guilty because I should have said something about it,

which I didn't because I didn't want to offend anyone, which is silly,

and I will say something later (since the doctor obviously won't.)

But in any case, I guess " need " for formula is subjective, and I would

certainly prefer they know about NT formulas than using soy, or that

my mom knew about them instead of putting me on apple juice because I

wouldn't tolerate any of the others. (Thank God I couldn't tolerate

soy, or I'd be even more screwed up!)

But I want to second 's analysis here. That mother's could

produce really crappy milk for their babies is quite *obvious*. The

religious ferver with which some of the breast milk advocates insist

that there is NO nutritional difference in accordance with diet is

simply ABSURD. Why is it, then, if all milk is exactly the same, that

those of us who drink milk will go to such great lengths to emphasize

the importance of all of the variables, such as grass-feeding, soil

fertility, lack of grain-feeding, breed of cow, etc?

It may be true that even the worst of breast milk is better than the

best commercial formula-- but if it is, that's a reflection of the

horrible quality of most formulas. Granted, if a mother was willing

to go to the lengths to procure a quality formula, she'd probably be

as willing to change her own diet. But I certainly wouldn't have a

baby with someone who lived off of veggie burgers and oreos if I

wasn't absolutely sure she was going to do one or the other!

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>And now I feel guilty because I should have said something about it,

>which I didn't because I didn't want to offend anyone, which is silly,

>and I will say something later (since the doctor obviously won't.)

>

Perhaps it was a poor climate in which to preach nutrition. I hope you

will share with your cousin and his wife soon, as the baby is only a

couple of months old. Is it a boy or a girl?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

A lot of women do this because they don't have sufficient breastmilk. That

was my problem and several people I know.

Irene

At 07:59 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:

>My cousin and his wife just had a baby a couple months ago, and for

>some reason she uses both breastmilk AND formula.

[Guest guest]

On 8/24/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

>

>

> >And now I feel guilty because I should have said something about it,

> >which I didn't because I didn't want to offend anyone, which is silly,

> >and I will say something later (since the doctor obviously won't.)

> >

> Perhaps it was a poor climate in which to preach nutrition. I hope you

> will share with your cousin and his wife soon, as the baby is only a

> couple of months old. Is it a boy or a girl?

She's a girl-- Ariana.

Although I don't consider that to have one iota of weight in terms of

the wisdom of loading her with estrogens during her rapid

developmental phase, if you may have been hinting in that direction.

I don't need to preach. I can just provide information. Like, " Just

so you know, in case your doctor didn't tell you, soy has enough

estrogen that feeding it to your baby is basically like giving her

birth control pills, and babies aren't normally exposed to estrogens,

and we have no idea what the long-term effects are. It also contains

enzyme-inhibitors and chemicals that decrease the absorption of

minerals, in addition to not having cholesterol or galactose, which

infants need a constant supply of for brain development. I wasn't

sure if you knew that, and I thought you might find it useful

information in choosing food for your baby. "

Or something like that.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

>She's a girl-- Ariana.

>

>Although I don't consider that to have one iota of weight in terms of

>the wisdom of loading her with estrogens during her rapid

>developmental phase, if you may have been hinting in that direction.

>

>

Ariana was referred to as " the baby " throughout your previous post. No

pronouns anywhere, lol.

I would have no idea the difference in terms of soy's effect on girls

vs. boys, but I would suspect that 1) it wouldn't be good either way,

and 2) there may be gender specific issues.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/24/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> Ariana was referred to as " the baby " throughout your previous post. No

> pronouns anywhere, lol.

Oh, sorry about that. :-) I think it might be " Arianna " with two n's,

although I just inquired over email about this.

> I would have no idea the difference in terms of soy's effect on girls

> vs. boys, but I would suspect that 1) it wouldn't be good either way,

> and 2) there may be gender specific issues.

Well I just sent them an email. I basically said that soy contains

estrogens, and we don't know what the effects are, but babies don't

usually encounter any such estrogens in breast milk or formula, so

it's better to err on the safe side. I also noted that this is

similar to 1) birth control pills, and 2) environmental pollutants

like dioxins and PCBs.

And I added that soy is high in phytates, enzyme inhibitors, and has

neither cholesterol nor galactose.

I'm sure their doctor, who recommended trying soy formula, didn't tell

them any of this, so I'm sure they'd be interested to know.

The pregnancy wasn't intentional, as far as I know (the marriage

followed), but they seem to be very interested in doing all sorts of

great things for her health and mental development. (the

mother) even got a book about yoga for babies! :-)

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

>Well I just sent them an email. I basically said that soy contains

>estrogens, and we don't know what the effects are, but babies don't

>usually encounter any such estrogens in breast milk or formula, so

>it's better to err on the safe side. I also noted that this is

>similar to 1) birth control pills, and 2) environmental pollutants

>like dioxins and PCBs.

>

>And I added that soy is high in phytates, enzyme inhibitors, and has

>neither cholesterol nor galactose.

>

>I'm sure their doctor, who recommended trying soy formula, didn't tell

>them any of this, so I'm sure they'd be interested to know.

>

>

Oh good. I was going to comment that it is good for you say something

.... it's good you wrote.

>The pregnancy wasn't intentional, as far as I know (the marriage

>followed), but they seem to be very interested in doing all sorts of

>great things for her health and mental development. (the

>mother) even got a book about yoga for babies! :-)

>

That's usually the case with pregnancies. It's one of those

life-changing events, planned or not, that makes you do things like eat

healthy and avoid bad things. It's fantastic that and Your

Cousin have become responsible parents. I bet they will be very happy

to have the information on soy. Did you give them the NT formula

recipe? I do advocate nursing above all, but for folks who can't do

that, NT substitute is better than the rest, I think.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/24/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> That's usually the case with pregnancies. It's one of those

> life-changing events, planned or not, that makes you do things like eat

> healthy and avoid bad things. It's fantastic that and Your

> Cousin have become responsible parents. I bet they will be very happy

> to have the information on soy. Did you give them the NT formula

> recipe? I do advocate nursing above all, but for folks who can't do

> that, NT substitute is better than the rest, I think.

Nope. As far as I know, she doesn't have any problem breast feeding.

She's breast feeding more often than formula feeding, so, even if it

was because she has insufficient milk (I doubt it), I imagine that

could be tweaked with various methods without resorting to formula.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

*Warning*: graphic poop talk follows. Read at your own risk.

Talk about a post resurrection! Suze wrote the following back around

August, 2005:

---------------------<snip>

It was about a 8 inch string of mucous with disk like poop rings along

it's length. They seemed almost like accordian flaps, but not that flat.

I looked at it and hoped it wasn't indicative of the shape of my colon -

pretty scary. There was also a smallish light-colored round hard poop

with it, which reminded of my dog's stool when he consumes chicken

necks. In any case, there were a few small undigested pieces

of...dunno..maybe nuts? in the accordian section. I haven't eaten nuts

in maybe a week or two.

---------------------<snip>

Hey Suze,

Do you recall if you had consumed any bentonite and/or psyllium on that

water fast over the summer? Looking into this mucoid plaque stuff, I

have seen some factions claim that this gunk is psyllium. I think,

yeah, that's possible. But then, this stuff that came out of me today

and yesterday was encased in rubbery hard stuff that could not be cut

with a chopstick. Wouldn't it be mixed in with the other contents more

if it were the psyllium? Why yes, I took a picture of today's variety:

shall I post it? It was the tail end of like 2 feet of material and was

pretty fecal free, as compared to the stuff I left alone. All of it was

rubbery and did not break up with chopstick cutting techniques <g>. I

have put some psyllium in water and left it to see if it becomes similar

in nature. It is mucousy, but not unbreakable or even rubbery so far.

Of course, I can't reproduce what goes on in my digestive track. But if

you were psyllium free on that fast (which I am inclined to think since

you were doing enemas), then I am thinking the mucoid is, well, mucoid.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Can't we get some of these in the photo section?

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: Deanna <hl@...>

> *Warning*: graphic poop talk follows. Read at your own risk.

>

> Talk about a post resurrection! Suze wrote the following back around

> August, 2005:

> ---------------------<snip>

> It was about a 8 inch string of mucous with disk like poop rings along

> it's length. They seemed almost like accordian flaps, but not that flat.

> I looked at it and hoped it wasn't indicative of the shape of my colon -

> pretty scary. There was also a smallish light-colored round hard poop

> with it, which reminded of my dog's stool when he consumes chicken

> necks. In any case, there were a few small undigested pieces

> of...dunno..maybe nuts? in the accordian section. I haven't eaten nuts

> in maybe a week or two.

> ---------------------<snip>

>

> Hey Suze,

>

> Do you recall if you had consumed any bentonite and/or psyllium on that

> water fast over the summer? Looking into this mucoid plaque stuff, I

> have seen some factions claim that this gunk is psyllium. I think,

> yeah, that's possible. But then, this stuff that came out of me today

> and yesterday was encased in rubbery hard stuff that could not be cut

> with a chopstick. Wouldn't it be mixed in with the other contents more

> if it were the psyllium? Why yes, I took a picture of today's variety:

> shall I post it? It was the tail end of like 2 feet of material and was

> pretty fecal free, as compared to the stuff I left alone. All of it was

> rubbery and did not break up with chopstick cutting techniques <g>. I

> have put some psyllium in water and left it to see if it becomes similar

> in nature. It is mucousy, but not unbreakable or even rubbery so far.

> Of course, I can't reproduce what goes on in my digestive track. But if

> you were psyllium free on that fast (which I am inclined to think since

> you were doing enemas), then I am thinking the mucoid is, well, mucoid.

>

>

> Deanna

[Guest guest]

>

> But then, this stuff that came out of me today

> and yesterday was encased in rubbery hard stuff that could not be cut with

> a chopstick.

Deanna, ah... the ol' chop sewage technique! The very same thing happened to

me a year and a half or so ago. I fasted and I wasn't taking any psyllium. I

dunno what it was but I can vouch for the strange rubbery kind of shiny

aspect also the fact that it seemed rather " clean " It hasn't happened since.

BTW, mine wasn't totally encased but was kind of like a half or

partial encasement and about 10 inches long. Damnedest thing. Can you put it

under a microscope? Y'know, to tell if it's necrotic tissue or something

less... well... human?

~Robin

[Guest guest]

> Can't we get some of these in the photo section?

Yeah, due to enthuiastic requests, as soon as I find the cable for the

camera, I'll upload it to my photo folder.

In the meantime, I just wanted to mention that this stuff was dense -

heavy. Also, all of it floated. I have dropped some of the sludgy

water psyllium mixture into another glass of water - it sinks, fyi.

What you will see is the most benign of the samples, as I was well

grossed out and didn't want this stuff falling off the chopstick and

running around the house, lol.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Robin,

[RA] Deanna, ah... the ol' chop sewage technique! The very same thing

happened to me a year and a half or so ago. I fasted and I wasn't

taking any psyllium. I dunno what it was but I can vouch for the

strange rubbery kind of shiny aspect also the fact that it seemed

rather " clean " It hasn't happened since.

[D] I read that to ds and he says, " I'll never eat Chinese food

again! " So no psyllium for you, vedy interesting.

[RA]BTW, mine wasn't totally encased but was kind of like a half or

partial encasement and about 10 inches long. Damnedest thing. Can you

put it under a microscope? Y'know, to tell if it's necrotic tissue or

something less... well... human?

The sample I am trying to post is pretty empty. It's like nylons

without a leg in them. Like an empty elastic tube. You'll see. The

stuff yesterday looked like colon, a few pieces a few inches complete

with the centerline. I am drinking water today as food is really not

my thing right now, lol. And it's been flushed. If I expel any more,

maybe I'll pack and ship it off to <weg>. Don't you have access

to a good scope, Chris?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 1/26/06, yoginidd <hl@...> wrote:

> Don't you have access

>to a good scope, Chris?

At the moment, no. I could probably use the lab at my old school --

they just gave me some dialysis tubing and silver nitrate for free

yesterday -- but I'd probably have to deal with toxicity concerns and

I'm really not looking forward to open a package of shit. LOL.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

I heard of something that makes a rubbery coating on the inside of

the ?? colon? large intestine? I think it may have been giardia

colonies. They say giardia is on the rise, water treatment doesn't

quite get rid of the stuff. If that's what it was, better out than

in as I've heard the coating is impermeable to nutrients and can

result in malnutrition.

Would you mind sharing with me maybe privately how you did this

water fast???

--- In , Robin Ann <grainwreck@g...>

wrote:

>

> >

> > But then, this stuff that came out of me today

> > and yesterday was encased in rubbery hard stuff that could not

be cut with

> > a chopstick.

>

>

> Deanna, ah... the ol' chop sewage technique! The very same thing

happened to

> me a year and a half or so ago. I fasted and I wasn't taking any

psyllium. I

> dunno what it was but I can vouch for the strange rubbery kind of

shiny

> aspect also the fact that it seemed rather " clean " It hasn't

happened since.

> BTW, mine wasn't totally encased but was kind of like a half or

> partial encasement and about 10 inches long. Damnedest thing. Can

you put it

> under a microscope? Y'know, to tell if it's necrotic tissue or

something

> less... well... human?

>

> ~Robin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Hey Suze,

>

>Do you recall if you had consumed any bentonite and/or psyllium on that

>water fast over the summer?

Hmmmm...no, I really don't remember. Sorry! I did stop taking Psyllium

either in the summer of fall because it makes me bloat. And I may have taken

it for the first few days of that fast, but I just can't recall.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>