Re: Menu posted for scrutiny

[Guest guest]

I used to be reactive hypoglycemic, and hypothyroid, and I'm not any

more. But if I ate like your sample menus, I'd be back there in a New

York minute!

What helped me was stretching out the intervals between meals. And to

do that I had to have mixed meals: protein, fibrous carbs, fat, and

just a little starchy/sugary carbs.

There's a whole blurb in " Mastering Leptin " (there I go again,

quoting it) that absolutely meshed with my lived experience. I'll

type it in if you want.

What's sposed to happen is, you have a meal. During the next 2-3

hours, insulin does its thing, then the next 2-3 hours, glucagon

kicks in. They take turns. But if you snack, then all you have is

insulin high all the live long day; glucagon doesn't get to play; and

no wonder you crave sugary things, that's what high insulin feels

like. The insulin makes blood sugar drop but then insulin doesn't go

down fast enough. So glucagon can't come to the rescue and help your

blood sugar. Now you have low blood sugar and high insulin and still

want to snack, perpetuating the cycle.

I also would have gotten in trouble from that much cheese. Some is

okay but multiple times a day, every day, and it seemed to trigger

overexposure symptoms. And yes, it was imported unpasteurized whole

milk cheese. Raw is too hard to find in my state (Oregon) as it's

illegal to buy retail and farms are hours away.

Connie

" The " need " to snack, reflected by dropping energy levels between

meals, is a sign of how out of shape the pancreas/liver/muscle system

is...

>

> > I was reading in NT that if you are hypoglycemic you should have

a

> > > high fat diet and if you are hypothyroid you should restrict

fat

> > > some. What if you are both?

> >

> > K,

> > Would you mind posting a few days sample menu of what you eat?

> > We'd love to criticize, eh, comment.

> > B.

> >

> ,

>

> I owe you big time for asking me to do this. The reason is looking

> back on my food journal, I'm not eating as well as I could be. I

> don't think I would have looked at it as critically as I have if

not

> asked to post it on here amongst people who score in the 99th

> percentile of eating perfectly. I noticed I'm leaning toward sweet

> things as much as I can sneak in (honey, macaroons, sometimes

> worse. I " m also top heavy in eating more as the day goes on. I

> definitely eat often (every 3 hours to stay sane) b/c of the blood

> sugar thing.

>

> I " m not a great cook so I keep things very simple. Like I was

using

> sprouted tortillas for any variety of burrito type stuff you can

> think of. I recently cut these out b/c I " m trying to eliminate all

> wheat including sprouted wheat. Anyway here goes:

>

> Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's bran

> cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw milk

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ya, more balanced meals will help. I have good amounts of properly

prepared whole grains (in various forms) with both of my meals, along

with lots of saturated fat (from butter, coconut oil), and some animal

products, and I don't get hungry for at least 5 hours. I only eat a

big breakfast and lunch, and sometimes eat a small snack for dinner. I

did use to be a ravenous eater and would snack constantly if something

sweet was around.

If you want to snack, drink a lacto-fermented drink, something like

kombucha would work wonders here. It can bring up toxins, and you may

not feel that great but you certainly won't feel like eating again

right away. Beet Kvass would also be a great choice.

-

> >

> > > I was reading in NT that if you are hypoglycemic you should have

> a

> > > > high fat diet and if you are hypothyroid you should restrict

> fat

> > > > some. What if you are both?

> > >

> > > K,

> > > Would you mind posting a few days sample menu of what you eat?

> > > We'd love to criticize, eh, comment.

> > > B.

> > >

> > ,

> >

> > I owe you big time for asking me to do this. The reason is looking

> > back on my food journal, I'm not eating as well as I could be. I

> > don't think I would have looked at it as critically as I have if

> not

> > asked to post it on here amongst people who score in the 99th

> > percentile of eating perfectly. I noticed I'm leaning toward sweet

> > things as much as I can sneak in (honey, macaroons, sometimes

> > worse. I " m also top heavy in eating more as the day goes on. I

> > definitely eat often (every 3 hours to stay sane) b/c of the blood

> > sugar thing.

> >

> > I " m not a great cook so I keep things very simple. Like I was

> using

> > sprouted tortillas for any variety of burrito type stuff you can

> > think of. I recently cut these out b/c I " m trying to eliminate all

> > wheat including sprouted wheat. Anyway here goes:

> >

> > Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's bran

> > cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw milk

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm more confused now then ever. Maybe there is some book out there

on how to eat for adrenal,thyroid problems. I always heard to eat

every couple of hours small meals to keep your blood sugar on an

even keel. More significantly if I don't eat this way I feel sick

and other people have written on here that they feel the same way

and have to carry food with them etc. I don't know how to segue

into eating 3 meals a day.

When I eat the sprouted grains in the morning the raw milk, I

thought that was pretty balanced with fat, protein and carbs. Also,

I sometimes eat the soaked oatmeal but I feel more satiated after

eating something like sausage or some animal product which is why I

have been doing eggs more often in the morning. Maybe I should do

body ecology diet. I need something that tells me what I can eat

instead of a big list of what I can't!

any input is appreciated,

-- In , " gdawson6 " <gdawson6@y...>

wrote:

>

> Ya, more balanced meals will help. I have good amounts of properly

> prepared whole grains (in various forms) with both of my meals,

along

> with lots of saturated fat (from butter, coconut oil), and some

animal

> products, and I don't get hungry for at least 5 hours. I only eat

a

> big breakfast and lunch, and sometimes eat a small snack for

dinner. I

> did use to be a ravenous eater and would snack constantly if

something

> sweet was around.

>

> If you want to snack, drink a lacto-fermented drink, something like

> kombucha would work wonders here. It can bring up toxins, and you

may

> not feel that great but you certainly won't feel like eating again

> right away. Beet Kvass would also be a great choice.

>

> -

>

>

> > >

> > > > I was reading in NT that if you are hypoglycemic you should

have

> > a

> > > > > high fat diet and if you are hypothyroid you should

restrict

> > fat

> > > > > some. What if you are both?

> > > >

> > > > K,

> > > > Would you mind posting a few days sample menu of what you

eat?

> > > > We'd love to criticize, eh, comment.

> > > > B.

> > > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > I owe you big time for asking me to do this. The reason is

looking

> > > back on my food journal, I'm not eating as well as I could

be. I

> > > don't think I would have looked at it as critically as I have

if

> > not

> > > asked to post it on here amongst people who score in the 99th

> > > percentile of eating perfectly. I noticed I'm leaning toward

sweet

> > > things as much as I can sneak in (honey, macaroons, sometimes

> > > worse. I " m also top heavy in eating more as the day goes on.

I

> > > definitely eat often (every 3 hours to stay sane) b/c of the

blood

> > > sugar thing.

> > >

> > > I " m not a great cook so I keep things very simple. Like I was

> > using

> > > sprouted tortillas for any variety of burrito type stuff you

can

> > > think of. I recently cut these out b/c I " m trying to

eliminate all

> > > wheat including sprouted wheat. Anyway here goes:

> > >

> > > Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's

bran

> > > cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw

milk

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Comments below...

> I'm more confused now then ever. Maybe there is some book out

there

> on how to eat for adrenal,thyroid problems.

I'd recommend " Mastering Leptin " if you want a " just eat this " book.

It talks about healing adrenal and thyroid along with all the other

hormonal imbalances.

> I always heard to eat

> every couple of hours small meals to keep your blood sugar on an

> even keel.

that is symptom management, yes, but it makes metabolism worse over

time. How long have you been eating every 3 hours, and do you feel

great yet? I'd say constant craving is not great.

> More significantly if I don't eat this way I feel sick

> and other people have written on here that they feel the same way

> and have to carry food with them etc. I don't know how to segue

> into eating 3 meals a day.

You would start with every 4 hours.

Say, 7:00 am, 11:00, 3:00, and 7:00.

A real simple outline for that plan, is, for each meal:

At least 1/8 your bodyweight in grams of protein. So if you weigh

160, then 20 grams of protein at each meal. that's like 3 ounces of

animal protein.

1/2 cup of starch or fruit

1+ cups of fibrous veg

fat for energy & satiety (butter, nuts)

> When I eat the sprouted grains in the morning the raw milk, I

> thought that was pretty balanced with fat, protein and carbs.

It would be wayyyy too much starch for me, in relation to the

protein. Grains are huge and then there's the milk sugar. I too can't

have that much starch and fruit sugar and dairy - they all make me

super hungry (craving).

Connie

[Guest guest]

,

Ooh, I'm top-posting.

Your 3-day sample menu is nice, and shows a lot of time taken and care

for yourself. The problem I see is that it doesn't seem to be serving

your needs, which are, among others, I assume, meal timing/resolving

your blood sugar instability. I didn't realize you have hypo

thyroid/glycemia and I don't see how this food is helping you heal

other than not poisoning you and symptom management, as cbrown said.

Other than that, it looks pretty tasty, although I confess that

halfway through I was muttering, " where's the meat? " And I picture you

as this lovely little sparrow, picking at a small meal here and there

and trying to stay warm in the winter. I'm so relieved you're in Florida.

So I'm wondering how big a serving the sausage entry comprised and if

the lack of meat is an economic, ethical, or simple distaste,

situation. Oh, wait, you mentioned food-combining, which I also

practice, so I'm guessing you don't care to mix meat with

grains/starches and because you don't wish to give up grains, either

because you dig them, or can't afford to, you are sticking with the

complex carbs and hoping for the best. Hopefully I'm not being too

indiscreet. (And if anyone wants to criticize my food-combining let

me qualify by saying I find it more practical and economical than

buying and taking various and sundry enzyme capsules which would be

necessary for me imo if I mixed all those foods together in one meal.

Cha! At some point, I presume, my digestion will be fierce enough to

enable me to eat whatever in whatever combination appeals to me, but

not yet.)

Anyway, if what you wish is to lower your meal frequency, I would

suggest eating a hefty enough meal to enable that to happen. I'm not

sure how much food you can manage at one sitting, but plan for a four

hour respite at first and eat accordingly. you will, of course, have

to carry some cheese/nuts/sausage with you in case you miss the mark,

which you will do, at first. You will eat more substantial meals, at

fewer intervals, but it could be fun experimenting with it, and seeing

your progress, and it is so very gratifying when you can go long

periods of time without crashing and/or throwing righteous temper

tantrums. Frees up quite a bit of time and enables more spontanaeity

in your life.

Are you taking high-vitamin clo?

ly, if it were me eating your meals, I'd probly add some cream to

the milk, or ghee if it's warm milk at night time. And when I ate

meat, I'd eat as much as I could, in my case, almost a pound at a

time, once/day but I somehow doubt a delicate young lady as yourself

could cope with that. Pour some ghee on it, take your clo, and baby

you won't be getting hungry for five hours.

Then eat your porridge/gruel or whatever for supper and maybe a milk

later and be content. I think you may need to rely on more dense

animal foods to heal. But it's gonna take time to accustom yourself,

and I'm not saying what you're eating is bad food, just that I think

your needs are beyond what it can support.

B.

> Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's bran

> cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw milk

>

>

> Lunch: turkey/chicken sausages

>

> Snack: goat yogurt

>

> Dinner:fermented beets/baba ghanouj, celery/ date

>

> green tea/coconut oil/honey

>

> Snack: raw milk

>

> Sample day 2

>

> Breakfast 2 scrambled eggsin ghee w/ raw blue cheese

> dates(probably eaten too close to the animal protein meal and

> probably too high in sugar)

>

> Lunch fermented beets/saurkraut/alta dena cheese

>

> organic food bar

>

> Dinner: French meadows spelt pizza crust with organic Valley

> mozzarella cheese and Muir Glen tomato sauce

>

> Green tea w/coconut Oil/ stevia

>

> 2 cubes Alta Dena cheese

>

> Sample 3

> breakfast: bowl of muesli/ raw milk

>

> snack1:raw goat yogurt/2 tsp maple syrup

>

> snack2:cashews 3 handfuls

>

> Lunch: fried eggs/blue cheese

>

> Dinner:bowl of buckwheat w/ raw cheese

>

> crispy cashews

>

> raw milk

>

[Guest guest]

Hey you reminded me that I tried food combining too! but it

was before NT prep of grains and I never, ever could get my system

stable on it. I kept screwing up the time intervals and amounts and

what not. Also I think I was overdoing it on grains, dairy, and

fruit, based on what I eat now and feel great on. Oh well. There

probably is a way to do it but I never found it.

Connie

> So I'm wondering how big a serving the sausage entry comprised and

if

> the lack of meat is an economic, ethical, or simple distaste,

> situation. Oh, wait, you mentioned food-combining, which I also

> practice, so I'm guessing you don't care to mix meat with

> grains/starches and because you don't wish to give up grains, either

> because you dig them, or can't afford to, you are sticking with the

> complex carbs and hoping for the best. Hopefully I'm not being too

> indiscreet. (And if anyone wants to criticize my food-combining let

> me qualify by saying I find it more practical and economical than

> buying and taking various and sundry enzyme capsules which would be

> necessary for me imo if I mixed all those foods together in one

meal.

> Cha! At some point, I presume, my digestion will be fierce enough

to

> enable me to eat whatever in whatever combination appeals to me, but

> not yet.)

>

> Anyway, if what you wish is to lower your meal frequency, I would

> suggest eating a hefty enough meal to enable that to happen. I'm

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey you reminded me that I tried food combining too! but it

> was before NT prep of grains and I never, ever could get my system

> stable on it. I kept screwing up the time intervals and amounts and

> what not. Also I think I was overdoing it on grains, dairy, and

> fruit, based on what I eat now and feel great on. Oh well. There

> probably is a way to do it but I never found it.

Connie,

Well, I feel funny saying I practice/follow it because what it comes

down to is I eat meat, fat and greens, like the other NN-ers. I find

it keeps the belly flat and discomfort down. If I ate at the grain

end of food-combining, Lord knows what trouble I might get myself into.

B.

[Guest guest]

...I kept screwing up the time intervals and amounts and

> what not. Also I think I was overdoing it on grains, dairy, and

> fruit, based on what I eat now and feel great on. Oh well. There

> probably is a way to do it but I never found it.

Connie,

For clarity, I've never read a book on " proper food combining " , but

mor-or-less follow the Ayurvedic rules. I'm not sure how they compare

or to which system you refer. For me, I attempt to eat between 10 AM

and 6 PM--or about sundown--and about six hours between meals.

Generally a large noon meal and a small this-or-that in the evening

but sometimes I switch for social reasons or just eat more or less

according to need/situation.

B.

[Guest guest]

and since I'm

> pretty much not worth the trouble, top post away...

...almost enough to make me stay on this list rather than unsubscribing.

> Almost - but not quite.

> ...On more than one occasion I have mentioned food combining for both

> weight loss and digestive efficiency, as an alternative to some of the

> supplement/enzyme micromanaging I see at times on this list. Doesn't

> seem to ring a bell with anyone. Until now.

>

....I can now depart in peace.

,

Do you need a hug?

Why are you leaving? We don't want you to leave. Look, I'm even

bottom-posting for effect.

B.

[Guest guest]

You might try what you are already beginning to try, that is, upping

the protein and decreasing carbohydrates. Because protein will keep

blood sugar stable.

Personally I love to have cereal or bread in the morning, but I want

to snack all day if I do. As an insulin dependent diabetic with

insulin resistance, I have to take a big shot of insulin if I eat more

than 20 grams of carb at a meal, and then I have all that insulin

making me hungry! Even the fact that I will drink raw milk and have

raw butter along with it apparently is not enough protein, maybe

because milk also has milk sugar in it, about 11 grams for whole milk,

so adding that to cereal or bread makes a fair amount of carbs.

I'd love a list to say how to eat also, but the fact is, everyone is

different, so you have to experiment to see what works. I find I do

need a little more carb than most low carbers, or I don't feel well --

but it's a challenge to keep the carbs limited so the cravings don't

start.

Ann

> > > >

> > > > > I was reading in NT that if you are hypoglycemic you should

> have

> > > a

> > > > > > high fat diet and if you are hypothyroid you should

> restrict

> > > fat

> > > > > > some. What if you are both?

> > > > >

> > > > > K,

> > > > > Would you mind posting a few days sample menu of what you

> eat?

> > > > > We'd love to criticize, eh, comment.

> > > > > B.

> > > > >

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > I owe you big time for asking me to do this. The reason is

> looking

> > > > back on my food journal, I'm not eating as well as I could

> be. I

> > > > don't think I would have looked at it as critically as I have

> if

> > > not

> > > > asked to post it on here amongst people who score in the 99th

> > > > percentile of eating perfectly. I noticed I'm leaning toward

> sweet

> > > > things as much as I can sneak in (honey, macaroons, sometimes

> > > > worse. I " m also top heavy in eating more as the day goes on.

> I

> > > > definitely eat often (every 3 hours to stay sane) b/c of the

> blood

> > > > sugar thing.

> > > >

> > > > I " m not a great cook so I keep things very simple. Like I was

> > > using

> > > > sprouted tortillas for any variety of burrito type stuff you

> can

> > > > think of. I recently cut these out b/c I " m trying to

> eliminate all

> > > > wheat including sprouted wheat. Anyway here goes:

> > > >

> > > > Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's

> bran

> > > > cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw

> milk

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I can't believe how much action I have been getting with all

these wonderful responses. It's moving, really. Oh, wait that's

just my blood sugar making me emotional; I haven't eaten in 2.5

hours (just kidding.) I really appreciate the input.

So what I'm getting is this, my meals should be bigger with a huge

emphasis on meat. Also I need to be getting more fiber with the

meals if I'm going by Mastering Leptin but if I'm food combining

properly, I don't want something like fruit (although it contains

fiber) with my meat meals. So I guess I have to make a choice.

My diet pre-katrina in New Orleans was steamed vegetables with

butter and sea salt and some animal product (eggs, chicken, ground

bison, fish) for lunch and dinner. For breakfast I had steel cut

oats or manna bread with berries and some sort of nut butter for

some fat warmed slightly in the oven. Man that tasted good. At the

conference I asked Sally what she thought of nut butters and she

didn't like them, I guess b/c the nuts arent' soaked first. Also at

the conference after hearing about food allergies to certain grains,

I thought I better avoid wheat and yeast so I gave up the manna

bread and the nut butters. I don't really eat fruit b/c of the " eat

it alone or leave it alone " principle and because if I ate it alone

I fear it's too much sugar without any fat. I " m going broke from my

15 dollars a gallon for raw milk and I had been flustered about what

to eat so I turned to the spelt pizza for comfort. I knew I was

pushing my luck with it!

My point in bringing all this up is that I felt really full when I

ate the lunch and dinner as I wrote. I was always wondering if I

was eating too much. Before I started WAP eating with all the fat,

I was very lean and muscular. I started putting on more fat and i

always wondered if that's just how it is when you eat fat and of

course it's better to be healthier or was this just, in fact, the

same time that my thyroid was quitting on me so my metabolism was

slowing down. If anyone is still reading this after all my

meanderings I'm curious about other people's experiences when they

switched over.

-- In , " downwardog7 "

<illneverbecool@g...> wrote:

>

>

> ,

> Ooh, I'm top-posting.

>

> Your 3-day sample menu is nice, and shows a lot of time taken and

care

> for yourself. The problem I see is that it doesn't seem to be

serving

> your needs, which are, among others, I assume, meal

timing/resolving

> your blood sugar instability. I didn't realize you have hypo

> thyroid/glycemia and I don't see how this food is helping you heal

> other than not poisoning you and symptom management, as cbrown

said.

>

> Other than that, it looks pretty tasty, although I confess that

> halfway through I was muttering, " where's the meat? " And I picture

you

> as this lovely little sparrow, picking at a small meal here and

there

> and trying to stay warm in the winter. I'm so relieved you're in

Florida.

>

> So I'm wondering how big a serving the sausage entry comprised and

if

> the lack of meat is an economic, ethical, or simple distaste,

> situation. Oh, wait, you mentioned food-combining, which I also

> practice, so I'm guessing you don't care to mix meat with

> grains/starches and because you don't wish to give up grains,

either

> because you dig them, or can't afford to, you are sticking with the

> complex carbs and hoping for the best. Hopefully I'm not being too

> indiscreet. (And if anyone wants to criticize my food-combining

let

> me qualify by saying I find it more practical and economical than

> buying and taking various and sundry enzyme capsules which would be

> necessary for me imo if I mixed all those foods together in one

meal.

> Cha! At some point, I presume, my digestion will be fierce

enough to

> enable me to eat whatever in whatever combination appeals to me,

but

> not yet.)

>

> Anyway, if what you wish is to lower your meal frequency, I would

> suggest eating a hefty enough meal to enable that to happen. I'm

not

> sure how much food you can manage at one sitting, but plan for a

four

> hour respite at first and eat accordingly. you will, of course,

have

> to carry some cheese/nuts/sausage with you in case you miss the

mark,

> which you will do, at first. You will eat more substantial meals,

at

> fewer intervals, but it could be fun experimenting with it, and

seeing

> your progress, and it is so very gratifying when you can go long

> periods of time without crashing and/or throwing righteous temper

> tantrums. Frees up quite a bit of time and enables more

spontanaeity

> in your life.

>

> Are you taking high-vitamin clo?

>

> ly, if it were me eating your meals, I'd probly add some

cream to

> the milk, or ghee if it's warm milk at night time. And when I ate

> meat, I'd eat as much as I could, in my case, almost a pound at a

> time, once/day but I somehow doubt a delicate young lady as

yourself

> could cope with that. Pour some ghee on it, take your clo, and

baby

> you won't be getting hungry for five hours.

>

> Then eat your porridge/gruel or whatever for supper and maybe a

milk

> later and be content. I think you may need to rely on more dense

> animal foods to heal. But it's gonna take time to accustom

yourself,

> and I'm not saying what you're eating is bad food, just that I

think

> your needs are beyond what it can support.

> B.

>

>

> > Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's

bran

> > cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw

milk

> >

> >

> > Lunch: turkey/chicken sausages

> >

> > Snack: goat yogurt

> >

> > Dinner:fermented beets/baba ghanouj, celery/ date

> >

> > green tea/coconut oil/honey

> >

> > Snack: raw milk

> >

> > Sample day 2

> >

> > Breakfast 2 scrambled eggsin ghee w/ raw blue cheese

> > dates(probably eaten too close to the animal protein meal and

> > probably too high in sugar)

> >

> > Lunch fermented beets/saurkraut/alta dena cheese

> >

> > organic food bar

> >

> > Dinner: French meadows spelt pizza crust with organic Valley

> > mozzarella cheese and Muir Glen tomato sauce

> >

> > Green tea w/coconut Oil/ stevia

> >

> > 2 cubes Alta Dena cheese

> >

> > Sample 3

> > breakfast: bowl of muesli/ raw milk

> >

> > snack1:raw goat yogurt/2 tsp maple syrup

> >

> > snack2:cashews 3 handfuls

> >

> > Lunch: fried eggs/blue cheese

> >

> > Dinner:bowl of buckwheat w/ raw cheese

> >

> > crispy cashews

> >

> > raw milk

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, $15 a gallon for raw milk! I pay $6!

Anyway, I hoped to lose weight when I started this, and I can only say

I have not gained -- my weight has stabilized at a point that I think

is high, but my genetic heritage shows as normal for my genes, as far

as I can tell (i.e., old pictures show my Dutch and Hawaiian ancestors

as weighing much more than I do). But my health is greatly improved.

I have definitely fallen into " evil ways " of eating the SAD diet at

times, when life gets hectic, but by and large, I have been eating

WAPF since 1997 or 1998. When I am in about 80 to 90% compliance with

it, I never catch colds, flu, anything, and I used to catch them all.

I used to have a chronic sinus infection, and that is gone. I am 53,

and although I am a bit stiffer than 20 years ago, I don't have the

joint problems, arthritis, or wrinkles that my contemporaries have.

When I keep up with my yoga, my joints do very well.

I did have to have a hysterectomy for a cancer that runs in my family,

but when they ran all the blood tests and tests of everything (my

naturopath and also the hospital to see how I would do with

anesthesia), everyone was shocked by the excellent levels of

everything in my blood, especially for someone in her 50's. Well, of

course they don't think my cholesterol is low enough, but I ignore

that. I healed very quickly and completely from the surgery, enough

to astonish my doctor. The cancer is gone.

I have decided that our country is unhealthily obsessed with people's

weight, and if I don't have better things to worry about at my age,

that is sad. So I just try to eat organic, grass-fed, raw dairy, clo,

etc., etc, and let my weight fall where it may. Lately I have been

very lazy and giving in to Christmas treats, so I gained about 10

pounds, but I know it will settle back where it was when I clean up my

act.

We are going to dig clams for New Year's, so that should work some

off, plus getting me fresh, wild clams I dug myself!

Ann

> > ,

> > Ooh, I'm top-posting.

> >

> > Your 3-day sample menu is nice, and shows a lot of time taken and

> care

> > for yourself. The problem I see is that it doesn't seem to be

> serving

> > your needs, which are, among others, I assume, meal

> timing/resolving

> > your blood sugar instability. I didn't realize you have hypo

> > thyroid/glycemia and I don't see how this food is helping you heal

> > other than not poisoning you and symptom management, as cbrown

> said.

> >

> > Other than that, it looks pretty tasty, although I confess that

> > halfway through I was muttering, " where's the meat? " And I picture

> you

> > as this lovely little sparrow, picking at a small meal here and

> there

> > and trying to stay warm in the winter. I'm so relieved you're in

> Florida.

> >

> > So I'm wondering how big a serving the sausage entry comprised and

> if

> > the lack of meat is an economic, ethical, or simple distaste,

> > situation. Oh, wait, you mentioned food-combining, which I also

> > practice, so I'm guessing you don't care to mix meat with

> > grains/starches and because you don't wish to give up grains,

> either

> > because you dig them, or can't afford to, you are sticking with the

> > complex carbs and hoping for the best. Hopefully I'm not being too

> > indiscreet. (And if anyone wants to criticize my food-combining

> let

> > me qualify by saying I find it more practical and economical than

> > buying and taking various and sundry enzyme capsules which would be

> > necessary for me imo if I mixed all those foods together in one

> meal.

> > Cha! At some point, I presume, my digestion will be fierce

> enough to

> > enable me to eat whatever in whatever combination appeals to me,

> but

> > not yet.)

> >

> > Anyway, if what you wish is to lower your meal frequency, I would

> > suggest eating a hefty enough meal to enable that to happen. I'm

> not

> > sure how much food you can manage at one sitting, but plan for a

> four

> > hour respite at first and eat accordingly. you will, of course,

> have

> > to carry some cheese/nuts/sausage with you in case you miss the

> mark,

> > which you will do, at first. You will eat more substantial meals,

> at

> > fewer intervals, but it could be fun experimenting with it, and

> seeing

> > your progress, and it is so very gratifying when you can go long

> > periods of time without crashing and/or throwing righteous temper

> > tantrums. Frees up quite a bit of time and enables more

> spontanaeity

> > in your life.

> >

> > Are you taking high-vitamin clo?

> >

> > ly, if it were me eating your meals, I'd probly add some

> cream to

> > the milk, or ghee if it's warm milk at night time. And when I ate

> > meat, I'd eat as much as I could, in my case, almost a pound at a

> > time, once/day but I somehow doubt a delicate young lady as

> yourself

> > could cope with that. Pour some ghee on it, take your clo, and

> baby

> > you won't be getting hungry for five hours.

> >

> > Then eat your porridge/gruel or whatever for supper and maybe a

> milk

> > later and be content. I think you may need to rely on more dense

> > animal foods to heal. But it's gonna take time to accustom

> yourself,

> > and I'm not saying what you're eating is bad food, just that I

> think

> > your needs are beyond what it can support.

> > B.

> >

> >

> > > Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's

> bran

> > > cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw

> milk

> > >

> > >

> > > Lunch: turkey/chicken sausages

> > >

> > > Snack: goat yogurt

> > >

> > > Dinner:fermented beets/baba ghanouj, celery/ date

> > >

> > > green tea/coconut oil/honey

> > >

> > > Snack: raw milk

> > >

> > > Sample day 2

> > >

> > > Breakfast 2 scrambled eggsin ghee w/ raw blue cheese

> > > dates(probably eaten too close to the animal protein meal and

> > > probably too high in sugar)

> > >

> > > Lunch fermented beets/saurkraut/alta dena cheese

> > >

> > > organic food bar

> > >

> > > Dinner: French meadows spelt pizza crust with organic Valley

> > > mozzarella cheese and Muir Glen tomato sauce

> > >

> > > Green tea w/coconut Oil/ stevia

> > >

> > > 2 cubes Alta Dena cheese

> > >

> > > Sample 3

> > > breakfast: bowl of muesli/ raw milk

> > >

> > > snack1:raw goat yogurt/2 tsp maple syrup

> > >

> > > snack2:cashews 3 handfuls

> > >

> > > Lunch: fried eggs/blue cheese

> > >

> > > Dinner:bowl of buckwheat w/ raw cheese

> > >

> > > crispy cashews

> > >

> > > raw milk

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> So what I'm getting is this, my meals should be bigger with a huge

> emphasis on meat. Also I need to be getting more fiber with the

> meals if I'm going by Mastering Leptin but if I'm food combining

> properly, I don't want something like fruit (although it contains

> fiber) with my meat meals. So I guess I have to make a choice.

What I see lacking--and forgot to mention--is liver and coconut.

Liver is a terrific way to level mood swings/blood sugar crashes and

coconut oil keeps one steadily-fueled. For your sweet tooth, you

might consider making some vco candies. For liver, I don't know how

ya wanna get it down, but it's very powerful, and one of my own secret

weapons, learned the hard way, mind you. (I used to eat six meals/day

and throw dishes, so I've put in my time, child.) You can always order

the freeze-dried stuff or freak out your mom and make homemade

Liv-a-Snaps with the *dreaded* Nesco dehydrator.

Uh, I, myself didn't mean to imply a *huge* emphasis on meat,

although I do eat about a pound of flesh each day. But I didn't mean

to predict that would solve your woes.

Oh, and what's with the fiber in _Mastering Leptin_? I am unschooled

in that. Can anyone expound, please?

> My diet pre-katrina in New Orleans was steamed vegetables with

> butter and sea salt and some animal product (eggs, chicken, ground

> bison, fish) for lunch and dinner. For breakfast I had steel cut

> oats or manna bread with berries and some sort of nut butter for

> some fat warmed slightly in the oven. Man that tasted good. At the

> conference I asked Sally what she thought of nut butters and she

> didn't like them, I guess b/c the nuts arent' soaked first. Also at

> the conference after hearing about food allergies to certain grains,

> I thought I better avoid wheat and yeast so I gave up the manna

> bread and the nut butters. I don't really eat fruit b/c of the " eat

> it alone or leave it alone " principle and because if I ate it alone

> I fear it's too much sugar without any fat. I " m going broke from my

> 15 dollars a gallon for raw milk and I had been flustered about what

> to eat so I turned to the spelt pizza for comfort. I knew I was

> pushing my luck with it!

$15/gallon? no wai! I didn't think anyone paid more than what L.A.

pays! I'm paying twelve for milk shipped into L.A. from PA. In the

land of Mark McAfee, no less.

Back to the food, the LA diet sounds better to me than the FL diet.

What is your experience? What was more stable? Was the breakfast

holding you over? Were you eating as many snacks? Feeling sick?

I wouldn't rush to ban properly prepared wheat if it wasn't causing

you any problems. You seemed happy enough with it at the conf. Have

you been having any symptoms? I hate to see you limiting yourself out

of anxiety. Further, I don't think a little nut butter is so bad. It

doesn't sound like you were eating it in any kind of excess. Or you

could make the nut butter in NT with the added coconut oil.

>

> My point in bringing all this up is that I felt really full when I

> ate the lunch and dinner as I wrote. I was always wondering if I

> was eating too much. Before I started WAP eating with all the fat,

> I was very lean and muscular. I started putting on more fat and i

> always wondered if that's just how it is when you eat fat and of

> course it's better to be healthier or was this just, in fact, the

> same time that my thyroid was quitting on me so my metabolism was

> slowing down. If anyone is still reading this after all my

> meanderings I'm curious about other people's experiences when they

> switched over.

My experience with WAPF principles is that I can't eat a lot of carbs

if I'm going to eat a lot of fat without getting fat. Otherwise, with

food-combining and occasional carb/fruit meals/treats, I'm fine. I

also don't care to eat as much fat as many people here, but about

2 - 2 1/2 oz./day.

B.

[Guest guest]

I do take coconut oil every day in green tea. I try to use stevia

instead of honey but sometimes I get sick of stevia. I am actually

going to eat liver tonight. The problem is where I buy it they only

sell it in lb increments. That's a lot of liver so I guess I could

just make it and freeze it since I have to defrost the whole thing

at once. , I know you're thinking " just eat the whole thing in

one sitting "

I just read the reviews for Mastering Letpin and the warrior Diet.

The reviews on amazon for Warrior diet are fascinating. It appeals

to me since I am always inclined to eat so much more at night. I

like to exercise at night too. Maybe i'll do mastering leptin for a

while and try warrior diet later. I read some back comments on

here about it and Sally doesn't seem in agreement with it though.

Ann, your story is great. By the way I can get my milk for like a

dollar fifty cheaper if I get it in plastic containers instead of

glass. It's sold for pet consumption only and now they want to put

purple dye in it. How crazy.

>

> > So what I'm getting is this, my meals should be bigger with a

huge

> > emphasis on meat. Also I need to be getting more fiber with the

> > meals if I'm going by Mastering Leptin but if I'm food combining

> > properly, I don't want something like fruit (although it

contains

> > fiber) with my meat meals. So I guess I have to make a choice.

>

> What I see lacking--and forgot to mention--is liver and coconut.

> Liver is a terrific way to level mood swings/blood sugar crashes

and

> coconut oil keeps one steadily-fueled. For your sweet tooth, you

> might consider making some vco candies. For liver, I don't know

how

> ya wanna get it down, but it's very powerful, and one of my own

secret

> weapons, learned the hard way, mind you. (I used to eat six

meals/day

> and throw dishes, so I've put in my time, child.) You can always

order

> the freeze-dried stuff or freak out your mom and make homemade

> Liv-a-Snaps with the *dreaded* Nesco dehydrator.

> Uh, I, myself didn't mean to imply a *huge* emphasis on meat,

> although I do eat about a pound of flesh each day. But I didn't

mean

> to predict that would solve your woes.

>

> Oh, and what's with the fiber in _Mastering Leptin_? I am

unschooled

> in that. Can anyone expound, please?

>

> > My diet pre-katrina in New Orleans was steamed vegetables with

> > butter and sea salt and some animal product (eggs, chicken,

ground

> > bison, fish) for lunch and dinner. For breakfast I had steel cut

> > oats or manna bread with berries and some sort of nut butter for

> > some fat warmed slightly in the oven. Man that tasted good. At

the

> > conference I asked Sally what she thought of nut butters and she

> > didn't like them, I guess b/c the nuts arent' soaked first.

Also at

> > the conference after hearing about food allergies to certain

grains,

> > I thought I better avoid wheat and yeast so I gave up the manna

> > bread and the nut butters. I don't really eat fruit b/c of

the " eat

> > it alone or leave it alone " principle and because if I ate it

alone

> > I fear it's too much sugar without any fat. I " m going broke

from my

> > 15 dollars a gallon for raw milk and I had been flustered about

what

> > to eat so I turned to the spelt pizza for comfort. I knew I was

> > pushing my luck with it!

>

> $15/gallon? no wai! I didn't think anyone paid more than what

L.A.

> pays! I'm paying twelve for milk shipped into L.A. from PA. In

the

> land of Mark McAfee, no less.

>

> Back to the food, the LA diet sounds better to me than the FL

diet.

> What is your experience? What was more stable? Was the breakfast

> holding you over? Were you eating as many snacks? Feeling sick?

>

> I wouldn't rush to ban properly prepared wheat if it wasn't causing

> you any problems. You seemed happy enough with it at the conf.

Have

> you been having any symptoms? I hate to see you limiting yourself

out

> of anxiety. Further, I don't think a little nut butter is so

bad. It

> doesn't sound like you were eating it in any kind of excess. Or

you

> could make the nut butter in NT with the added coconut oil.

> >

> > My point in bringing all this up is that I felt really full when

I

> > ate the lunch and dinner as I wrote. I was always wondering if

I

> > was eating too much. Before I started WAP eating with all the

fat,

> > I was very lean and muscular. I started putting on more fat and

i

> > always wondered if that's just how it is when you eat fat and of

> > course it's better to be healthier or was this just, in fact,

the

> > same time that my thyroid was quitting on me so my metabolism

was

> > slowing down. If anyone is still reading this after all my

> > meanderings I'm curious about other people's experiences when

they

> > switched over.

>

> My experience with WAPF principles is that I can't eat a lot of

carbs

> if I'm going to eat a lot of fat without getting fat. Otherwise,

with

> food-combining and occasional carb/fruit meals/treats, I'm fine. I

> also don't care to eat as much fat as many people here, but about

> 2 - 2 1/2 oz./day.

>

> B.

>

[Guest guest]

> Ann, your story is great. By the way I can get my milk for like a

> dollar fifty cheaper if I get it in plastic containers instead of

> glass. It's sold for pet consumption only and now they want to put

> purple dye in it. How crazy.

Purple dye -- yuck. You would think raw milk drinkers are Satan

worshippers or something. (no offense to any Satan worshippers!) I

am crossing my fingers, because the state dept. is after our cow share

programs. The guy I bought my cow share from is working to get

licensed, but who knows what hoops they will try to make him jump

through. And right now they are claiming an e.coli outbreak in

southwestern Washington state is linked (notice -- " linked " ) to a raw

dairy. Who knows what the repercussions of that will be. But so far,

I get my milk the day it comes from the grassfed cow, in glass

containers, for a very reasonable price, and I know the cows.

I would probably pay the $1.50 for glass, although does plastic leach

if it isn't heated? I can't remember if I ever read anything about

that. I do freeze things in plastic, otherwise glass containers break.

It turns us back into hunter/gatherers, as we hunt through the

American food supply to find actual, real food!

Ann

[Guest guest]

> P.S. , please don't leave!! You're such a great part of this

> group. Plus, would have one less guy to flirt with and that's

> one of my favorite things about this group. :-D

Steph,

Well, I never!

B.

/lying

[Guest guest]

, I know you're thinking " just eat the whole thing in

> one sitting "

Nah, I'm not thinking that. I used to do what Steph does, freeze it

in little bits and eat some everyday or so, because I could only buy

in one lb. packages as well, and eating more than a little fried liver

is too heavy! I dehydrate it now, but maybe I'll try cooking it again

and see how it tastes.

>

> I just read the reviews for Mastering Letpin and the warrior Diet.

> The reviews on amazon for Warrior diet are fascinating. It appeals

> to me since I am always inclined to eat so much more at night. I

> like to exercise at night too. Maybe i'll do mastering leptin for a

> while and try warrior diet later. I read some back comments on

> here about it and Sally doesn't seem in agreement with it though.

Sally likes to have a big breakfast with her next two meals

progressively smaller. What I read, she seemed most opposed to not

eating breakfast. The way some people " Warrior Diet " they eat two

small meals then a large dinner--it doesn't really matter when one

takes the large meal as long as one is undereating when one is not

" feasting " .

> ... By the way I can get my milk for like a

> dollar fifty cheaper if I get it in plastic containers instead of

> glass. It's sold for pet consumption only and now they want to put

> purple dye in it...

That's pathological.

B.

[Guest guest]

Micheal, I second , please don't go! I've

> always enjoyed your imput! C'mon, group hug!

will he stay or go?

scent'd cyber-air hangs heavy

this girl's baited breath.

B.

[Guest guest]

Another thought- I recall reading in The Schwarzbein Principle that

a part of metabolic healing (which occurs when one improves their

diet, esp. adding good fats) for many people results in weight gain

as the body goes into a rebuild/repair mode. The body eventually and

naturally finds its ideal weight.

>

> > Before I started WAP eating with all the fat,

> >I was very lean and muscular. I started putting on more fat and

i

> >always wondered if that's just how it is when you eat fat and of

> >course it's better to be healthier or was this just, in fact, the

> >same time that my thyroid was quitting on me so my metabolism was

> >slowing down. If anyone is still reading this after all my

> >meanderings I'm curious about other people's experiences when

they

> >switched over.

> >

> >

> >

> It's not the fat, IMO. I've been eating tons more fat and have

lost

> weight. Like said, it seems to be related more to carbs.

We did

> Maker's Diet (which is NT based) and I started to lose weight.

Then,

> giving up gluten and dairy because of allergies took off more

weight.

> Doing SCD melted off the last 5 pounds and my weight has

stabilized - at

> a point lower than I ever thought I'd be again!

>

> A number of people who gave up gluten, but didn't want to consider

> problems with dairy (especially with NT's huge emphasis on it)

found

> that it did have an effect on their weight. Many more of us have

> problems with dairy than would like to admit. :-(

>

> Steph

>

[Guest guest]

Sally likes to have a big breakfast with her next two meals

> progressively smaller. What I read, she seemed most opposed to not

> eating breakfast. The way some people " Warrior Diet " they eat two

> small meals then a large dinner--it doesn't really matter when one

> takes the large meal as long as one is undereating when one is not

> " feasting " .

>

>National Geographic did an article in Novemeber on Longevity and

interviewed the Okinawans on the secrets of their success. Many of

them live by the

confucian-inspired adage eat until your stomach is 80 percent full. I

thought that was wise but after trying those big meals recommended in

the last 2 days, I have been able to go longer in between meals. I

really stuffed myself today with liver,sausage,steamed kale with

butter and a little fermented pepper and cabbage, some dulse and for

dessert green tea and coconut milk with a little honey. Coconut milk

in the tea is really awesome. With all these weston price foods I

almost expected my dental arch to start widening!

[Guest guest]

> >National Geographic did an article in Novemeber on Longevity and

> interviewed the Okinawans on the secrets of their success. Many of

> them live by the

> confucian-inspired adage eat until your stomach is 80 percent full. I

> thought that was wise but after trying those big meals recommended in

> the last 2 days, I have been able to go longer in between meals. I

> really stuffed myself today with liver,sausage,steamed kale with

> butter and a little fermented pepper and cabbage, some dulse and for

> dessert green tea and coconut milk with a little honey. Coconut milk

> in the tea is really awesome. With all these weston price foods I

> almost expected my dental arch to start widening!

K,

That looks like a bricks-n-mortar meal, gee. You could host Idol

with a spread like that.

B.

[Guest guest]

> ...But...there is one additional private reason I would be leaving NN

> anyway, even if the above were not true, that does not apply to any

> other list I was/am on, including Beyond Price, ChapterLeaders, and

> any other NN related list...

,

You are such a teaser.

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>I

>don't think I would have looked at it as critically as I have if not

>asked to post it on here amongst people who score in the 99th

>percentile of eating perfectly.

There's always a tension between realism (which includes

acknowledging the dismal fact that it's all but impossible to eat

perfectly or even half-perfectly due to the state of the available

soil) and idealism, but while I'd be the first to argue that it's

eminently worthwhile to do your best to improve your diet and eat as

well as you can, it can also turn absurd -- and unsupportable.

> I noticed I'm leaning toward sweet

>things as much as I can sneak in (honey, macaroons, sometimes

>worse. I " m also top heavy in eating more as the day goes on. I

>definitely eat often (every 3 hours to stay sane) b/c of the blood

>sugar thing.

Eating sweet things will exacerbate your blood sugar problems,

unfortunately. As an off-the-scale hypoglycemic with long and bitter

experience with this problem, I recommend boosting your (saturated)

fat intake and cutting your sugar intake. I used to have to eat

frequently to keep on something like an even keel. Now I eat two meals a day.

>Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's bran

>cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw milk

Unfortunately, not good for a hypoglycemic! (Maybe not good for

anyone, but that's getting into a separate argument.)

>Lunch: turkey/chicken sausages

Why turkey/chicken and not pork?

>Lunch fermented beets/saurkraut/alta dena cheese

Seems kind of low in protein and fat to me.

>organic food bar

I could be mistaken, but I don't think there's a single

food/energy/whatever bar on the market that's not a total disaster,

so I'd reluctantly recommend avoiding them all entirely.

I still haven't managed to make an acceptable pemmican, but I'm at

least making progress with jerky, so portable foods aren't completely

impossible.

-

[Guest guest]

,

> What leads you to say that about liver? I find that since it's so

> lean, it has virtually no sating effect. By the time I finish my

> half pound of raw liver to open my post-workout meal, I'm generally

> quite eager to get onto the rest of the food I'll be

> eating. Nutritionally speaking, of course, it has long-term positive

> effects on mood and health and energy, but I get the impression

> you're referring to something else.

I guess I'm referring to the vitamin B content, at least partially.

So yes, I'm not referring to something else. I remember when I was an

anxious wreck and Cowan prescribed the Quantum B vitamins and they

really helped. I'm also thinking there is much I don't know about the

content and wondrous effects of liver, so I leave it as a mystery.

You know much more about these things.

I eat it as a raw prelude to the main meal and I've found, over time,

I need no B supplements and since I've lately been training with

different people instead of alone I've discovered I display an

impressive stamina.

> CO, being saturated fat, is certainly helpful for providing stable

> energy, though.

I'm so grateful my statement is Idol-approved. I worry about these things.

B.

[Guest guest]

> >Breakfast:1 bowl of sprouted cinnamon cereal (This is Lydia's bran

> >cereal which is mainly sprouted buckwheat or Quinoa) with raw milk

>

> Unfortunately, not good for a hypoglycemic! (Maybe not good for

> anyone, but that's getting into a separate argument.)

, I know this meal got the most criticism but what is the

difference b/w sprouted buckwheat and ,say, oatmeal? A few people

have suggested oatmeal to me for breakfast and that it keeps them

full, etc. I've heard Sally Fallon say this too. Doesn't that have

a lot of carbs too? Or maybe there's another reason you are against

the sprouted buckwheat.

> >Lunch: turkey/chicken sausages

>

> Why turkey/chicken and not pork?

I'm getting applegate organic sausages from wild oats and these are

the choices.

I wish I had read your comments to Connie before I ordered Mastering

Leptin. I was really excited to get it. She was the one that

really pointed out to me that I shouldn't be snacking. I have been

trying to go longer without eating and today I went 5 hours b/w

breakfast and lunch. I didn't mean to go that long but I didn't

have snacks with me. Let me tell you something, you aren't joking

about starting slow. My knees were knocking. Even after eating I

felt so sick and nauseous. If I was a dog, I would have been shot

to be put out of my misery. I also get this wierd pressure in my

ears and pressure in the back of my throat that stays with me for a

while afterwards (my dental arches narrowing?) Also on Saturday I

was trying to go longer in b/w meals and I started feeling sick and

drank coconut milk and then I had an asian pear. I did't feel that

great. I know you say sat. fats but for me protein makes me feel

better.

I just got tropical traditions coconut cream today for another

source of sat. in my diet. This stuff has to be bad for you. It's

like ice cream to me, I love it. There has to be a down side.