Re: Red Rice Yeast

[Guest guest]

On 12/30/05, fourume2003 <mdrgnolan@...> wrote:

> Anyone out there have any experience with this? I'm not overly

> concerned about my cholesterol being at 268. What I'm concerned with

> is that my ratios aren't very good. My Nurse Practitioner has

> recommended Red Rice Yeast, taken as directed. She didn't mention

> anything about how it affects the ratios. She also didn't mention,

> nor probably knows, that you need to take CoQ10 with RRY, just as you

> do with statins.

Red rice yeast, is, of course, as you may know, a statin. It is not

something different. It is the same thing.

[snip] Hopefully, by

> then, my bio-identical compounded T4 will have kicked in enough to

> also help the cholesterol. I really feel so much like a guinea pig

> here!

I question the value of inhibiting cholesterol synthesis. Using the

thryoid hormone is going to accomplish something entirely different

and in many ways opposite, not the same thing " naturally. " Using your

thyroid hormone will increase the conversion of cholesterol into

steroid hormones. Using the red yeast rice will inhibit the synthesis

of cholesterol, CoQ10, and all other of the ubiquitous isoprene

compounds that are used in your body for basically everything, and

thus inhibit the synthesis of steroids, vitamin D, and everything that

lies downward in that biosynthetic pathway.

In the case of the thryoid hormone, you are hastening and advancing

this biosynthetic pathway. In the case of the red yeast rice, you are

stopping it, throwing a wrench in its wheel.

> Any recommendations for helping the ratios? I know that exercise is

> supposed to help. Any other *cheap* ideas? I really don't want to

> spend any more on supplements than I'm doing already - not to mention

> that I'm loathe to popping any more additional pills at dinner.

Exactly which ratio is the issue?

Many of us would question the relevance of the ratios. If anything is

particularly relevant, I'd guess it would be the ratio of oxidized LDL

to LDL. It seems to me that LDL is particularly protective of many

things, but that higher LDL usually results in higher oxidized LDL if

antioxidant status is too low, hence the conflicting studies and

inconsistent associations in many studies between LDL and diseases

that are likely related to oxidative stress.

For example, the higher your LDL, the more protected you are from

losing mobility when you become elderly. On the other hand, the

higher your oxidized LDL, the more likely you are to lose mobility

when you are elderly. See my comment here:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/The_Cholesterol_Times-Issue-8.html#Mobilit\

y

I would think that the best strategy would be to increase your

antioxidant intake, including selenium and pre-formed vitamin A from

cod liver oil in addition to fresh vegetables and fruits, etc, (maybe

palm oil for vitamin E unless, and if you could afford it a balanced

tocopherol/tocotrienol complex) to exclude vegetable oils from your

diet, have a generally low PUFA intake, and so on, and to ignore the

cholesterol numbers.

Vitamin A and boosting your thyroid status (through iodine-rich foods

and coconut oil and avoidance of excessive PUFA, or through

supplemental thyroid hormone or however it is approached), exercise,

relaxation and lowering stress, and so on, will probably " improve "

your cholesterol, but that's probably not wherein their benefit lies,

so to take the " shortcut " of using statins such as red yeast rice or

Lipitor is probably not going to do the same good, and might have

harmful effects.

So, strive to be healthy, rather than striving for " good " cholesterol

ratios or numbers. That's how I see it.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

> Exactly which ratio is the issue?

~~~Thanks for the lengthy reply!

Here are the numbers:

Cholesterol 268

HDL Cholesterol 51

Triglycerides 136

LDL 190

Using the scenario that Dr Cowen uses in his article:

http://www.westonaprice.org/askdoctor/highcholesterol.html

Total Cholesterol/HDL

No risk: less than 3.5

Low risk: 3.5 - 4.5

Medium risk: 4.5 - 5.5

High risk: greater than 5.5

Your patient's ratio is 290/79 or 3.7

.. . . Thus I find my ratio is at high end of the Medium Risk at 5.25

Also another reason for me to feel a little alarmed is that my CRP

was 7.00 mg/L which is apparently over twice the *high* range

0.00-3.00

> I would think that the best strategy would be to increase your

> antioxidant intake, including selenium and pre-formed vitamin A from

> cod liver oil in addition to fresh vegetables and fruits, etc,

>(maybe palm oil for vitamin E unless, and if you could afford it a

>balanced tocopherol/tocotrienol complex) to exclude vegetable oils

>from your diet, have a generally low PUFA intake, and so on, and to

>ignore the cholesterol numbers. Vitamin A and boosting your thyroid

>status (through iodine-rich foods and coconut oil and avoidance of

>excessive PUFA, or through supplemental thyroid hormone stress, and

>so on, will probably " improve " your cholesterol

~~~Just about the only vegetable oil in my diet is some mayo in my

(nearly) daily salad - currently Safflower mayo. I'll be upping my

CLO this month, but reducing my raw Guernsey cream by about half

(I've got to cut some excess calories somewhere!)Selenium and E

currently come from a supplement. Iodine comes from canned salmon

(for my salads) and from Bladderwrack - although I have no idea just

how much iodine is in bladderwrack. Coconut oil is approx 2 Tbls a

day. Stress should be decreased in Jan (Dec I put in FAR too much

overtime at work averaging 62 hours a week) Exercise has been very

far down on the priority list to this point - although I know that I

HAVE to make it a priority. Sugars have been off and on in Dec.

It's time to rid them (or drastically reduce them) from my diet.

I think you're right - concentrate on good health and stop being

concerned about the numbers. I've read enough articles to really not

be concerned with the numbers - I just get caught up in the moment

when cornered by the Nurse Practitioner.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

On 1/1/06, fourume2003 <mdrgnolan@...> wrote:

> Also another reason for me to feel a little alarmed is that my CRP

> was 7.00 mg/L which is apparently over twice the *high* range

> 0.00-3.00

Hi Rhonda,

I just posted an abstract that found a negative correlation between

CRP and Vitamin A status. You may be quickly using up all your

vitamin A. You may benefit from increasing your cod liver oil A LOT.

How much CLO are you taking?

If I remember correctly, CoQ10 can also help with CRP. I'll check

that for sure later. In any case your two choices to get a lot of

CoQ10 are supplements or to eat heart regularly.

By the way, doesn't Dr. Cowan actually say in that article that he

doesn't believe the numbers are actually that important, but uses them

because his pateints do, and because high triglycerides are a good

marker for excessive carbohydrate intake?

> ~~~Just about the only vegetable oil in my diet is some mayo in my

> (nearly) daily salad - currently Safflower mayo. I'll be upping my

> CLO this month, but reducing my raw Guernsey cream by about half

> (I've got to cut some excess calories somewhere!)Selenium and E

> currently come from a supplement. Iodine comes from canned salmon

> (for my salads) and from Bladderwrack - although I have no idea just

> how much iodine is in bladderwrack. Coconut oil is approx 2 Tbls a

> day. Stress should be decreased in Jan (Dec I put in FAR too much

> overtime at work averaging 62 hours a week) Exercise has been very

> far down on the priority list to this point - although I know that I

> HAVE to make it a priority. Sugars have been off and on in Dec.

> It's time to rid them (or drastically reduce them) from my diet.

A medicinal dose of coconut oil is considered 6 tbsp a day. An easy

way to take it is 2 tbsp dissolved in warm water or tea before each

meal. That may help your thryoid, and l-tyrosine could too, I guess

depending on the reason why your thyroid is low. I'm curious how much

CLO you are taking and what you are going to up it to. Like I said,

your high CRP may indicate you need a LOT. But I don't know how much.

High CRP indicates inflammation. Is it possible you have an

autoimmune disorer, that you are reacting to the dairy or grains if

you eat them? Or that you have a systemic infection?

> I think you're right - concentrate on good health and stop being

> concerned about the numbers. I've read enough articles to really not

> be concerned with the numbers - I just get caught up in the moment

> when cornered by the Nurse Practitioner.

Heh. Well the CRP does seem to indicate an inflammatory condition

that something should probably done about. I've never had mine

checked. I bet it doesn't look good for myself.

Happy New Year!

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

>

> > Also another reason for me to feel a little alarmed is that my CRP

> > was 7.00 mg/L which is apparently over twice the *high* range

> > 0.00-3.00

> I just posted an abstract that found a negative correlation between

> CRP and Vitamin A status. You may be quickly using up all your

> vitamin A.

~~~From the lab form for the CRP:

Cut-points for coronary risk assessment (mg/L):

<1.0=low risk

1.0 to 3.0=average or intermediate risk

>3.0=high risk

The high risk tertile has an approximate 2-fold increase in

relative risk compared with the low-risk tertile.

>10.0 mf/L generally associated with no-cardiac inflammation. Not

applicable for coronary risk assesment.

I take that to mean that in the case of an autoimmune disease the

numbers would be over 10.0.

>You may benefit from increasing your cod liver oil A LOT.

> How much CLO are you taking?

~~~I've read that people with hypothyroid don't convert carotenes

into Vit A very well. I really don't eat that many foods high in

carotenes anyway - ie no carrot juice, etc. As for the CLO I am

taking Garden of Life (my budget can afford this from Vitacost.com)

The bottle says that 1 teaspoon is 5,000 IU Vit A and 200 IU Vit D.

I take 1 1/2 teaspoons daily - so that would be about 7,500 IU

daily. I was thinking of doubling it. Think that's not enough?

> If I remember correctly, CoQ10 can also help with CRP. I'll check

> that for sure later. In any case your two choices to get a lot of

> CoQ10 are supplements or to eat heart regularly.

~~~I grind up heart, put in small balls and freeze to later add to

hamburger. Because of my long overtime hours in Dec, heart

consumption was down simply because I wasn't cooking much. Do we

know how much coQ10 is in heart? As for supplementing, now that

hours at work are lower so is my paycheck - I'll be scrambling to buy

the supplements I'm already buying.

> By the way, doesn't Dr. Cowan actually say in that article that he

> doesn't believe the numbers are actually that important, but uses

them

> because his pateints do, and because high triglycerides are a good

> marker for excessive carbohydrate intake?

I really don't consider my carb intake all that high. Typical for a

day would be 1/2 sprouted wheat bagel or 1 slice homemade toast,

approx 1/4 cup crispy walnuts, whatever carbs are in my kefir

smoothie, (made usually with frozen berries, and sweetened with

stevia & a little bit of agave nectar) less than 1 oz of 88% cocoa

chocolate bar per day (sorry, can't give up my chocolate LOL), and at

dinner maybe a small/med serving of a carb along with a glass of raw

milk. Of course there are the occasional goodies at our house - I've

been known to make some pretty incredible desserts, although they are

made with sprouted, dehydrated, freshly ground wheat and lowered

sugars.

> A medicinal dose of coconut oil is considered 6 tbsp a day. That

>may help your thryoid, and l-tyrosine could too, I guess

> depending on the reason why your thyroid is low.

~~~I'm not sure WHY the hypothyroid - although I'm assuming due to

first perimenopause and now *officially* menopausal, which I

understand are milestones with women for thyroid problems. When I

was losing weight, I was consuming approx 3 Tbls of coconut oil a day.

> High CRP indicates inflammation. Is it possible you have an

> autoimmune disorer, that you are reacting to the dairy or grains if

> you eat them? Or that you have a systemic infection?

~~~No systemic infections that I'm aware of. As for grains, I don't

rely on them much in my diet-and when I consume them I properly

soak/sprout them. My bread is made with a little unbleached white

flour added (ratio sprouted whole wheat to white 6:2) as my DH

requires a semi-fluffy bread for sandwiches. Dairy consists of raw

Guernsey, raw cheese, with the only pastuerized dairy being old

fashioned whipping cream which I mix with raw milk to make half 'n

half for my decaff coffee.

> Heh. Well the CRP does seem to indicate an inflammatory condition

> that something should probably done about. I've never had mine

> checked. I bet it doesn't look good for myself.

~~~sometimes I think it's best not to get these stupid tests as it

causes us to *question* everything we are doing. As for me, I

suspect that losing some weight and getting off my duff will help my

health all the way around.

I would be interested in finding out about the CoQ10/CRP connection.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

On 1/1/06, fourume2003 <mdrgnolan@...> wrote:

> ~~~From the lab form for the CRP:

> Cut-points for coronary risk assessment (mg/L):

> <1.0=low risk

> 1.0 to 3.0=average or intermediate risk

> >3.0=high risk

> The high risk tertile has an approximate 2-fold increase in

> relative risk compared with the low-risk tertile.

> >10.0 mf/L generally associated with no-cardiac inflammation. Not

> applicable for coronary risk assesment.

>

> I take that to mean that in the case of an autoimmune disease the

> numbers would be over 10.0.

I take it to mean that above 10 there is no dose-response relationship

between CRP increase and relative risk increase. It's a statement

limiting the interpretation of what happens over 10, not limiting the

interpretation of under 10. I don't think it says anything about

autoimmune diseases. Moreover, cardiac inflammation always has some

cause. It isn't a cause of itself.

> >You may benefit from increasing your cod liver oil A LOT.

> > How much CLO are you taking?

>

> ~~~I've read that people with hypothyroid don't convert carotenes

> into Vit A very well. I really don't eat that many foods high in

> carotenes anyway - ie no carrot juice, etc. As for the CLO I am

> taking Garden of Life (my budget can afford this from Vitacost.com)

> The bottle says that 1 teaspoon is 5,000 IU Vit A and 200 IU Vit D.

> I take 1 1/2 teaspoons daily - so that would be about 7,500 IU

> daily. I was thinking of doubling it. Think that's not enough?

I don't know. I can't say anything quantitatively. What you're

taking now is probably sufficient for a healthy person, but an

inflammatory condition might cut your serum levels in half. I don't

know what increased intake it would take to compensate. I'm sorry.

But you might want to try seeing how it makes you feel, and consider

going up more if needed.

> > If I remember correctly, CoQ10 can also help with CRP. I'll check

> > that for sure later. In any case your two choices to get a lot of

> > CoQ10 are supplements or to eat heart regularly.

>

> ~~~I grind up heart, put in small balls and freeze to later add to

> hamburger. Because of my long overtime hours in Dec, heart

> consumption was down simply because I wasn't cooking much. Do we

> know how much coQ10 is in heart? As for supplementing, now that

> hours at work are lower so is my paycheck - I'll be scrambling to buy

> the supplements I'm already buying.

In order to get comparable CoQ10 to supplements, you need to eat whole

servings of heart. Like a heart steak. My website has a table with

CoQ10 amounts:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Coenzyme-Q10.html#Table

The amounts are per gram, so you need to multiply it by the grams you

are getting. There are 1000 mcg for every 1 mg. So if you were to

eat a 100 gram steak of heart, move the decimal two places to the

right to represent 100 grams, then move it three places to the left to

go from mcg to mg. So 100 g pork heart has between 12.7mg and

20.3mg.

> I really don't consider my carb intake all that high. Typical for a

> day would be 1/2 sprouted wheat bagel or 1 slice homemade toast,

> approx 1/4 cup crispy walnuts, whatever carbs are in my kefir

> smoothie, (made usually with frozen berries, and sweetened with

> stevia & a little bit of agave nectar) less than 1 oz of 88% cocoa

> chocolate bar per day (sorry, can't give up my chocolate LOL), and at

> dinner maybe a small/med serving of a carb along with a glass of raw

> milk. Of course there are the occasional goodies at our house - I've

> been known to make some pretty incredible desserts, although they are

> made with sprouted, dehydrated, freshly ground wheat and lowered

> sugars.

Right, but I was saying Dr. Cowan didn't really seem to agree with the

importance of the ratios that he was discussing in the article. That

was my sense.

> > High CRP indicates inflammation. Is it possible you have an

> > autoimmune disorer, that you are reacting to the dairy or grains if

> > you eat them? Or that you have a systemic infection?

>

> ~~~No systemic infections that I'm aware of. As for grains, I don't

> rely on them much in my diet-and when I consume them I properly

> soak/sprout them. My bread is made with a little unbleached white

> flour added (ratio sprouted whole wheat to white 6:2) as my DH

> requires a semi-fluffy bread for sandwiches. Dairy consists of raw

> Guernsey, raw cheese, with the only pastuerized dairy being old

> fashioned whipping cream which I mix with raw milk to make half 'n

> half for my decaff coffee.

Well wheat and dairy can be problematic, unfortunately. I'm just

throwing out possible reasons for inflammation.

> I would be interested in finding out about the CoQ10/CRP connection.

I'll look it up when I get some extra time. I really need to get a

move on finishing this A/bone article at the moment though. Search my

website for it, there might be something there. The review of _Dr.'s

Heart Cure_ probably has it if it's there.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

I can't trace who sent you this email, but I want to know how

she or he made those bread recipes with the sprouted, then dehydrated

grains.

Thanks,

On Jan 2, 2006, at 9:10 AM, Masterjohn wrote:

> On 1/1/06, fourume2003 <mdrgnolan@...> wrote:

>

>> ~~~From the lab form for the CRP:

>> Cut-points for coronary risk assessment (mg/L):

>> <1.0=low risk

>> 1.0 to 3.0=average or intermediate risk

>>> 3.0=high risk

>> The high risk tertile has an approximate 2-fold increase in

>> relative risk compared with the low-risk tertile.

>>> 10.0 mf/L generally associated with no-cardiac inflammation. Not

>> applicable for coronary risk assesment.

>>

>> I take that to mean that in the case of an autoimmune disease the

>> numbers would be over 10.0.

>

> I take it to mean that above 10 there is no dose-response relationship

> between CRP increase and relative risk increase. It's a statement

> limiting the interpretation of what happens over 10, not limiting the

> interpretation of under 10. I don't think it says anything about

> autoimmune diseases. Moreover, cardiac inflammation always has some

> cause. It isn't a cause of itself.

>

>>> You may benefit from increasing your cod liver oil A LOT.

>>> How much CLO are you taking?

>>

>> ~~~I've read that people with hypothyroid don't convert carotenes

>> into Vit A very well. I really don't eat that many foods high in

>> carotenes anyway - ie no carrot juice, etc. As for the CLO I am

>> taking Garden of Life (my budget can afford this from Vitacost.com)

>> The bottle says that 1 teaspoon is 5,000 IU Vit A and 200 IU Vit D.

>> I take 1 1/2 teaspoons daily - so that would be about 7,500 IU

>> daily. I was thinking of doubling it. Think that's not enough?

>

> I don't know. I can't say anything quantitatively. What you're

> taking now is probably sufficient for a healthy person, but an

> inflammatory condition might cut your serum levels in half. I don't

> know what increased intake it would take to compensate. I'm sorry.

> But you might want to try seeing how it makes you feel, and consider

> going up more if needed.

>

>>> If I remember correctly, CoQ10 can also help with CRP. I'll check

>>> that for sure later. In any case your two choices to get a lot of

>>> CoQ10 are supplements or to eat heart regularly.

>>

>> ~~~I grind up heart, put in small balls and freeze to later add to

>> hamburger. Because of my long overtime hours in Dec, heart

>> consumption was down simply because I wasn't cooking much. Do we

>> know how much coQ10 is in heart? As for supplementing, now that

>> hours at work are lower so is my paycheck - I'll be scrambling to buy

>> the supplements I'm already buying.

>

> In order to get comparable CoQ10 to supplements, you need to eat whole

> servings of heart. Like a heart steak. My website has a table with

> CoQ10 amounts:

>

> http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Coenzyme-Q10.html#Table

>

> The amounts are per gram, so you need to multiply it by the grams you

> are getting. There are 1000 mcg for every 1 mg. So if you were to

> eat a 100 gram steak of heart, move the decimal two places to the

> right to represent 100 grams, then move it three places to the left to

> go from mcg to mg. So 100 g pork heart has between 12.7mg and

> 20.3mg.