Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Lana Gibbons wrote: >Hello all, > >I've been finding more and more foods without preservatives which have > " Lactic Acid Starter " listed. Does this mean there's a chance these >foods are lactofermented? > > > LAS *is* the preservative. I had quite extensive conversations with Applegate Farm Hotdogs over this one when they started adding LAS. Technically, I suppose, one could say that the meat is lacto-fermented, since the starter culture is added to the meat on processing and I'm guessing that the starter is to meat what Donna Gates' powder is to kefir. If you're avoiding corn, however, I've never contacted a company asking about their culture that it didn't turn out to be corn. HTH! --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Suzanne- >If you're avoiding corn, however, I've never contacted a company >asking about their culture that it didn't turn out to be corn. Do you mean their starter has a corn base for the bacteria, or that they're just calling some kind of corn product " lactic acid starter culture " ? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Idol wrote: >Suzanne- > > > >>If you're avoiding corn, however, I've never contacted a company >>asking about their culture that it didn't turn out to be corn. >> >> > >Do you mean their starter has a corn base for the bacteria, or that >they're just calling some kind of corn product " lactic acid starter culture " ? > > > Sorry, I never asked them about the specifics of that, but I have the impression that it is the first. Corn is a very common medium for such things like starter culture, citric acid, ascorbic acid, etc.....it fact, it is the *usual* medium. And I'll bet it isn't non-GMO, either. --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 > > >>Do you mean their starter has a corn base for the bacteria, or that >>they're just calling some kind of corn product " lactic acid starter culture " ? >> >> >> >> >> >Sorry, I never asked them about the specifics of that, but I have the >impression that it is the first. Corn is a very common medium for such >things like starter culture, citric acid, ascorbic acid, etc.....it >fact, it is the *usual* medium. And I'll bet it isn't non-GMO, either. > >--s > > Do you think it's only a problem for those with corn allergies, or do ya think it would also be problematic for those trying to avoid grains altogether? Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Steph wrote: >Do you think it's only a problem for those with corn allergies, or do ya >think it would also be problematic for those trying to avoid grains >altogether? > >Steph > > > That's a good question. I wish Elaine Gottschall were alive to answer that question. Never having taken chemistry, I don't know if the SCD status of grains change with the refinements. I can only speak for my family, of whom most have IgG reactions to corn....the worst reactions being specific to the most refined forms of corn. But now that you bring it up, I do wonder if the problems with non-GMO corn would carry over into the super refined forms. --s, for whom corn is part of the unholy four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Suzanne- >Never having taken chemistry, I don't know if the SCD >status of grains change with the refinements. It doesn't. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Idol wrote: >Suzanne- > > > >>Never having taken chemistry, I don't know if the SCD >>status of grains change with the refinements. >> >> > >It doesn't. > > > > >- > > Okay, so, , Applegate Farms has added this corn based lactic acid starter to their formerly SCD compliant turkey hot dogs. Would you consider them legal? No one on the SCd lists that I'm on has commented on this particular additive and I'd really like to know because we really liked being able to use those on occasion. Thanks! Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Idol wrote: >Suzanne- > > > >>Never having taken chemistry, I don't know if the SCD >>status of grains change with the refinements. >> >> > >It doesn't. > > > I had a feeling. I got to thinking about this from the frame of reference to allergies....like you can remove the gliadin from wheat, but still have an allergic reaction to the remaining wheat starch. I know that my children will react to anything that even thought about being corn in a previous life, despite chemists' insistence that the citric acid is pharamceutical grade and they can't possibly be reacting to that. So, yeah, for me that pretty much substantiates what you're saying there. Steph, the representative at Applegate was pretty adamant that the LAS was in to stay. Still, she was pretty adamant that the switch to sugar was permanent, too, until the wave of response I told her to expect from the SCD community hit and then they switched back to honey. It is possible that if enough of them complained about the LAS, it might make a difference. The reason they are adding it is because of the small stores (like HFS's) who were losing product because it wasn't selling before it went bad. The LAS was added so to extend the shelf life of the product. WRT the legality of the ingredient, my guess is that the SCD community has breezed past the ingredient without scrutinizing what it is. Most people don't scrutinize arcane ingredients. Heck, a friend of mine contacted a company, who told her that their product was corn-free when distilled vinegar was right on the label.... --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Steph- >Okay, so, , Applegate Farms has added this corn based lactic acid >starter to their formerly SCD compliant turkey hot dogs. Would you >consider them legal? I can't say definitively without knowing exactly what it is, but unless it's a small amount of corn sugar which is used up by the bacteria, it's not SCD-legal. Have they also added it to their beef hot dogs? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Idol wrote: >Steph- > > > >>Okay, so, , Applegate Farms has added this corn based lactic acid >>starter to their formerly SCD compliant turkey hot dogs. Would you >>consider them legal? >> >> > >I can't say definitively without knowing exactly what it is, but >unless it's a small amount of corn sugar which is used up by the >bacteria, it's not SCD-legal. > >Have they also added it to their beef hot dogs? > > > If they have not already added it to everything, they will soon, according to the representative. --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Suzanne- >If they have not already added it to everything, they will soon, >according to the representative. Blast. Those stinkers. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 >>Have they also added it to their beef hot dogs? >> >> >> >If they have not already added it to everything, they will soon, >according to the representative. > >--s > > They also added cane sugar to the beef and chicken hot dogs, but they are in the process of removing that after the huge uproar that it caused. They have already removed it from their production facility, and the cane sugar free stuff should be on the shelves in the next few months. If the LAS is an SCD problem, then they may get enough feedback to take it out too. (We can always hope). :-) Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 What is the quality of the meat used in the applegate products? jafa --------------------------------- Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Steph wrote: >They also added cane sugar to the beef and chicken hot dogs, but they >are in the process of removing that after the huge uproar that it >caused. > <nodding> It is giving me great satisfaction to say, " I told you so " to them. Heh. When I was begging and pleading that they not change the recipe, I told them about the Pecanbread and SCD communities who depend so heavily on their hotdogs. I'm glad the backlash succeeded.....I wouldn't have believed it, tbh. >They have already removed it from their production facility, >and the cane sugar free stuff should be on the shelves in the next few >months. If the LAS is an SCD problem, then they may get enough feedback >to take it out too. (We can always hope). :-) > >Steph > > > I was astounded at the speed of the response.....I don't have much confidence in boycotts, but I suppose if the company is small enough, then the sensitivity to smaller groups is crucial. -Meyer need not heed us, but I guess Applegate Farms isn't there yet (though if they keep tweaking their ingredients, they won't be far away!). If the SCD communities probe more persistently into the LAS aspect, they may find again that they have clout..... --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 >> >>Have they also added it to their beef hot dogs? >> >> >If they have not already added it to everything, they will soon, >according to the representative. > >--s > It's in the beef dogs. I ate some yesterday. From the label: " Ingredients: organic beef, water, sodium lactate (from beets), sea salt, organic honey, organic evaporated cane juice, organic spices, celery juice, organic paprika, lactic acid starter culture (not from dairy. " Honey *and* sugar, oh boy. What irks me is the changing of the ingredients. So now I have to read the label all the time. PITA. Deanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 jafa wrote: > What is the quality of the meat used in the applegate products? > > jafa > > > > http://www.applegatefarms.com/ They have 2 lines, one organic and the other natural. Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Suzanne- >If the SCD >communities probe more persistently into the LAS aspect, they may find >again that they have clout..... Unfortunately, " lactic acid starter " may not sound like an obvious enough problem to mobilize enough people to make a difference. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Idol wrote: > >Unfortunately, " lactic acid starter " may not sound like an obvious >enough problem to mobilize enough people to make a difference. > > >- > > > Can you tell me any more about how you think it would negatively affect those on SCD? I emailed the pecanbread list telling them that people with corn allergies are reacting to see if that would get any of the higher up people interested, but so far there's been no response. Of course, it is a holiday weekend, so that could be the reason. I'd love to be able to stick this on their radar screen because a whole lot of parents are using the Applegate products for their ASD kids. So, anything that you could tell me that would help me convince them to look into this further would be most helpful. :-) Thanks! Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Idol wrote: >Suzanne- > > > >>If the SCD >>communities probe more persistently into the LAS aspect, they may find >>again that they have clout..... >> >> > >Unfortunately, " lactic acid starter " may not sound like an obvious >enough problem to mobilize enough people to make a difference. > > > > Well, my wistful hope was that if it came up on their radar that LAS is technically SCD illegal, they would again wield that clout we've recently seen work and effect even more change. My pitiful pleas were insufficent. --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 >Well, my wistful hope was that if it came up on their radar that LAS is >technically SCD illegal, they would again wield that clout we've >recently seen work and effect even more change. My pitiful pleas were >insufficent. > >--s > > > Where did you pitifully plea? Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Steph wrote: >>Well, my wistful hope was that if it came up on their radar that LAS is >>technically SCD illegal, they would again wield that clout we've >>recently seen work and effect even more change. My pitiful pleas were >>insufficent. >> >>--s >> >> >> >> >> > >Where did you pitifully plea? > > > To Applegate. She was sweet and sympathetic, but convinced that the ingredient changes were there to stay....until Pecanbread struck. When the honey came back in, I called her back and asked about the LAS. She was sweet and sympathetic, but convinced the LAS was there to stay. <whistling coaxingly> Heeeeeere, Pecanbread...... --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Suzanne Noakes wrote: >Steph wrote: > > > >>>Well, my wistful hope was that if it came up on their radar that LAS is >>>technically SCD illegal, they would again wield that clout we've >>>recently seen work and effect even more change. My pitiful pleas were >>>insufficent. >>> >>>--s >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Where did you pitifully plea? >> >> >> >> >To Applegate. She was sweet and sympathetic, but convinced that the >ingredient changes were there to stay....until Pecanbread struck. When >the honey came back in, I called her back and asked about the LAS. She >was sweet and sympathetic, but convinced the LAS was there to stay. > ><whistling coaxingly> Heeeeeere, Pecanbread...... > >--s > > > Hee hee. I mistakenly thought that you had plead with another SCD list somewhere. I'll keep at it when I get more info. :-) Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Steph- >Can you tell me any more about how you think it would negatively affect >those on SCD? It depends on exactly what it is, but if it contains starch or disaccharides (or both) it's going to cause dysbiosis flares and all the many consequences of dysbiosis, same as any other substances that's not allowed on the SCD for digestive reasons. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Idol wrote: >Steph- > > > >>Can you tell me any more about how you think it would negatively affect >>those on SCD? >> >> > >It depends on exactly what it is, but if it contains starch or >disaccharides (or both) it's going to cause dysbiosis flares and all >the many consequences of dysbiosis, same as any other substances >that's not allowed on the SCD for digestive reasons. > > > >- > > > My understanding is that corn dextrose is being used to feed the starter. So, the starter feeds off the dextrose in the same way that yogurt bacteria feed off the lactose in milk. People that are allergic to corn are reacting to it, so there is some element of corn left in the final product. So, given that, what do you think the chances are that some of this SCD illegal dextrose is left in the final product? And, would *you* eat their stuff right now with this LAS in it? I'm trying to come up with something to get someone's attention. So far, my posts are being completely ignored on pecanbread. A whole lot of people on that list use these products. I haven't tried them since they added this new culture myself. Steph -- www.praisemoves.com The Christian alternative to yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Steph- >My understanding is that corn dextrose is being used to feed the >starter. So, the starter feeds off the dextrose in the same way that >yogurt bacteria feed off the lactose in milk. People that are allergic >to corn are reacting to it, so there is some element of corn left in the >final product. Well, dextrose is just glucose, a monosaccharide, so the real question then is how pure it is, and if people are getting allergic reactions to it, it may not be very pure at all. >So, given that, what do you think the chances are that some of this SCD >illegal dextrose is left in the final product? Dextrose itself isn't illegal. It's unwise to go consuming lots of sugar, but that's a separate issue and not entirely relevant to the question of probiotic starters. >And, would *you* eat >their stuff right now with this LAS in it? I'd like to learn more about it -- and about how much sugar is left after whatever fermentation is happening. Many of these foods don't appear to be fermented at all. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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