Re: --SCD

[Guest guest]

On the subject of chocolate and SCD, I have been on SCD for 4 years, for the

first 3, I stuck to it 100%. About a year ago, I added Scharffenberger

unsweetened cocoa powder, and their chocolate nibs, and for me personally, even

though SCD has not totally healed me, the chocolate does not seem to make me

worse, I actually started it durning a bad flare, and it seemed to make me feel

better. Other than the chocolate, and not heating my raw milk for yogurt,

and usually drinking raw milk kefir, I stick to scd all the time, ala NT, which

I started a few years before SCD. My new thing w/ the cocoa powder is to take

organic dried coconut, make coconut milk, and then put a spoonful of cocoa

in a cup of hot water, and then top it off w/ coconut milk. YUMMY! I dont need

any honey in this hot chocolate, and most of my family and friends love it

straight, although there are a few who find it needs to be sweetened.

As for the nibs, I grind them in my thermomix and bake w/ them, or just

munch on them. If you bake with them its best to bake at a low temp, for a

better

richer flavor.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

>I just recently started on the SCD an am reading as many back posts as I

>can find . don't want to go to any other lists right now, so I am

>hoping you can answer some question for me.

NP!

>why not stevia?

Elaine's reason had nothing to do with digestion, but because of its

resemblance to a wide variety of physiologically active

compounds. Here's her comment and another from the BTVC FAQ:

>>Elaine writes:

>>Stevia belongs to a family called Terpenoids. According to my book

>>called The Organic Constitutents of Higher Plants by Trevor

>>, 2nd edition, page 158, " This class of glycosides

>>(terpenoids) often have physiological effects on mammals and

>>microorganisms. " Perhaps the affect is good, perhaps it is bad; I

>>don't know, but its molecular structure resembles a steroid. It is

>>not SCD legal.

>>

>>Seth writes:

>>There are all kinds of steroids. The ones we take for IBD (ie

>>prednisone which mimicks cortisol) reduce inflammation and scale

>>down the immune system. But there are steroids that do the

>>opposite. I think the point is that plant steroids could have any

>>number of effect in humans and vice versa.

And as it turns out, stevia depresses testosterone and fertility in

male rats, per a study I posted a few days ago. I also came across

something indicating it depresses female fertility too, but I haven't

found it again to post yet.

IOW, it appears to be bad news all around.

>why not plain dark chocolate? I read that Elaine had " other " reasons

>for making it illegal. do you know what they are?

If you look at the nutritional breakdown for unsweetened chocolate

<http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c21Ow.html>

you'll see that there's a nontrivial amount of problem carb (total

carb minus fiber) though it's not clear exactly what the makeup of

that carb is.

That said, at least part of Elaine's objections to chocolate were

along the same lines as her objections to stevia and the WAPF's

objections to chocolate -- its physiological activity, some of which

is understood and some of which isn't.

Chocolate, however, seems to have much more support in traditional

diets than stevia or the WAPF alternative of carob (which is

digestively quite nasty and also tastes like crap) so I'd say that IF

your digestive health seems to be topnotch AND you stick strictly to

quality sugar-free chocolate and cocoa, you might experiment and see

how your gut responds to it. It's rich in good saturated fat, and a

little metabolic stimulation isn't bad for everyone. However, pay

very close attention to how your digestive system responds.

>why only yogurt and not kefir?

Yoghurt can be reliably made to be virtually free of lactose simply

by incubating it for 24 hours at the appropriate temperature, for

example in a yoghurt maker such as the Yogourmet (which now has glass

vessels available!). Kefir, being a heterogenous and variable mix of

organisms which is highly temperature-sensitive, can't be relied upon

to be lactose-free -- and if you ferment it long enough to make it

highly probably (but not at all certain) that it's effectively

lactose-free, it winds up being too vinegary for most people to tolerate.

>why does coffee and tea have to be weak?

To avoid stressing the gut with the tannins they contain.

>is coconut flour ok? i have been assuming it is.

It's SCD-legal, but as it's almost pure fiber, it's one of those

things which should be left until your digestion is in great shape

and then tried cautiously.

>what about guar gum and/or xanthan gum and cellulose?

Illegal, illegal and legal, respectively. Cellulose is simply

natural vegetable fiber.

HOWEVER, in my experience and that of many other people, there's

cellulose and then there's cellulose. Many vitamin companies are

using cellulose fillers which are actually refined wood pulp, and

so-called vegicaps (used to make supplements acceptable for

vegetarians and also supposedly safe from mad cow) are made out of a

highly refined cellulose product which dissolves slowly in the gut,

impairs absorption and can definitely cause some people problems. So

to the maximum degree possible, I'd stick to natural cellulose found in foods.

>I know carageenan

>is off limits. Right now I am doing a dairy free version, so am reliant

>on coconut milk. I use the tetra packs from WFN, but can't get any

>right now.

The tetra packs unfortunately have guar gum last I checked.

>So what I have access to is Thai Kitchen (cellulose gum and xanthan

>gum) and Native Forrest (guar gum). Do you think they are okay?

Nope. You might not notice immediate problems... or you might. And

long-term they're not wise.

> I am

>sure you will tell me to crack my own coconuts and I may yet get around

>to that, but would love to avoid it if possible.

Cracking your own would certainly be best, but obviously that can be

quite demanding. WFN does have a " pure and natural " coconut milk

which is gum free. Unfortunately, it's packed in the world's most

inappropriate bottles (they're very narrow-necked, and in cool

weather the coconut cream rises to the top and solidifies; also the

cap rusts on the inside) but product itself is pretty good.

Is there a specific reason you're doing the SCD dairy-free?

-

[Guest guest]

Every chocolate and chocolate powder I could find has soy lecithin as

an ingredient. Why is that and isn't it part of the soy taboo or is it

in such small quantities as to not cause too much concern? Does anyone

know of a chocolate with no soy?

On Jan 14, 2006, at 5:26 AM, Idol wrote:

>> why not plain dark chocolate? I read that Elaine had " other " reasons

>> for making it illegal. do you know what they are?

>

> If you look at the nutritional breakdown for unsweetened chocolate

>

> <http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c21Ow.html>

>

> you'll see that there's a nontrivial amount of problem carb (total

> carb minus fiber) though it's not clear exactly what the makeup of

> that carb is.

>

> That said, at least part of Elaine's objections to chocolate were

> along the same lines as her objections to stevia and the WAPF's

> objections to chocolate -- its physiological activity, some of which

> is understood and some of which isn't.

>

> Chocolate, however, seems to have much more support in traditional

> diets than stevia or the WAPF alternative of carob (which is

> digestively quite nasty and also tastes like crap) so I'd say that IF

> your digestive health seems to be topnotch AND you stick strictly to

> quality sugar-free chocolate and cocoa, you might experiment and see

> how your gut responds to it. It's rich in good saturated fat, and a

> little metabolic stimulation isn't bad for everyone. However, pay

> very close attention to how your digestive system responds.

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

>

>

>> I am

>>sure you will tell me to crack my own coconuts and I may yet get around

>>to that, but would love to avoid it if possible.

>>

>>

>

>Cracking your own would certainly be best, but obviously that can be

>quite demanding. WFN does have a " pure and natural " coconut milk

>which is gum free. Unfortunately, it's packed in the world's most

>inappropriate bottles (they're very narrow-necked, and in cool

>weather the coconut cream rises to the top and solidifies; also the

>cap rusts on the inside) but product itself is pretty good.

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

- do they ever actually have that coconut milk in stock?

Ellen - I buy dessicated coconut to make milk with. It's not quite as

rich as the canned stuff, but it works for making coconut milk yogurt.

Steph

--

www.praisemoves.com

The Christian alternative to yoga

[Guest guest]

> Cracking your own would certainly be best, but obviously that can be

> quite demanding. WFN does have a " pure and natural " coconut milk

> which is gum free. Unfortunately, it's packed in the world's most

> inappropriate bottles (they're very narrow-necked, and in cool

> weather the coconut cream rises to the top and solidifies; also the

> cap rusts on the inside) but product itself is pretty good.

/Ellen,

FWIW and just-in-case it helps someone out that can locate it, I buy

frozen coconut milk at the Asian grocery store. It comes from the

Philippines and as far as I can tell, has no added emulsifier because,

well, it's not emulsified.

Comes in six-inch plastic bags.

" A1 Tropics " and " Masagana " are the brands I get. Also they have

shredded coconut meat and young coconut juice w/pulp (and added sugar)

Look for stores that cater to Philippinos.

B.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> NP!

??? No problem? haha! Took me a minute. Think this is an age issue.

We don't use that in my cohort.

>

> And as it turns out, stevia depresses testosterone and fertility in

> male rats, per a study I posted a few days ago.

>

Yes, I did see that.

>

>

>

> Yoghurt can be reliably made to be virtually free of lactose simply

> by incubating it for 24 hours at the appropriate temperature, for

> example in a yoghurt maker such as the Yogourmet (which now has glass

> vessels available!). Kefir, being a heterogenous and variable mix of

> organisms which is highly temperature-sensitive, can't be relied upon

> to be lactose-free -- and if you ferment it long enough to make it

> highly probably (but not at all certain) that it's effectively

> lactose-free, it winds up being too vinegary for most people to

tolerate.

I do not seem to be lactose intolerant. But what you say about the

long fermenting kefir interests me. i am really in the dark about

yeasts and microbes. Would vinegar affect a Candida problem? I

enjoyed the taste of long fermented kefir, but it brought my bowels to

a halt. (I did not feel constipated. Just had no urge to go for a

week or so.) Another result of this type of kefir was that it seems

to have stirred up a problem I thought i had resolved, and which is

probably at the center of what I am trying to deal with here.

Specifically I am referring to a sleep disturbance. But it is more

than that. When this happens i have no trouble going to sleep, but

wake up in the middle of the night, wide awake, but not particularly

disturbed by anything..IOW not because something is on my mind. AND

the crucial part here is that I feel hung over the next day.

occasionally I have not had much sleep for one reason or another and

the next day i just feel tired. A very different reaction. So I have

always thought it had to do with what I ate that day. And (this

problem started about 10-12 years ago) by last year I pretty much

thought I had resolved it, by being very careful about my carbs. So

last year I got some real kefir grains (I had been making kefir from

raw milk, using Body Ecology powder) used them in my raw milk for a

long ferment and boom! suddenly started waking up again. After a

while it seemed that any ferment would cause this response. So since

early summer I have been avoiding them and sleeping well. I would like

to get back to good home fermented foods. I am going into all this

detail because it is part of why I am doing the SCD. Which i might as

well explain fully here.

Another strand is that I found my arthritis went away by staying very

low grain> Later I realized I needed to be completely gluten free.

My moods stabilized and it was easier to keep from overeating .

I am not sure if I need to be casein free or not. I am still

experimenting. Right now I am off casein and have been for about a

year. Every once in a while I test. My plan is to try the yogurt

after a while on SCD.

the third thing is that I have had this strange rash on my face. At

this point it is barely noticible and I am not conerned about it

because of how I look, but because I am sure it is indicative of

something not good going on inside. The most important thing to know

about it is that although the dermatologist admitted they don't know

what causes this they have found that anitbiotics can resolve it. But

that it may come back. I took the antibiotics, it went away, but it

came back again last year and I have been experimentg ever since. Some

things have seemed to help,but nothing has irradicated it. I am sure

it has to do with gut flora /yeast. And I am thinking that the sleep

thing does too. I have tried a lot of the yeast remedies and a few

probiotcs. They haven't helped. So I thought SCD might help.

restore the balance of my microbial population.

The other important thing to say I think, is that I have no obervable

digestive disturbance aside from the queasy stomach that accompanies

the hung over feeling I have referred to.

> >why does coffee and tea have to be weak?

>

> To avoid stressing the gut with the tannins they contain.

okay. Well i can't take much caffeine anyway. I was just curious.

>

> >is coconut flour ok? i have been assuming it is.

>

> It's SCD-legal, but as it's almost pure fiber, it's one of those

> things which should be left until your digestion is in great shape

> and then tried cautiously

So if my bowels function well, which they do, then there's no

problem.I guess my question is: can your bowels be funtioning well

even if you are not digesting disaccarides properly?

>

> to the maximum degree possible, I'd stick to natural cellulose found

in foods.

That make good sense.

>

>

> The tetra packs unfortunately have guar gum last I checked.

> cap rusts on the inside) but product itself is pretty good.

Okay, I will check again with WFN about the tetra packs. Meanwhile I

will just forego coconut milk. Oh wait, what about reconstittuing the

coconut cream? Not too tasty, but it amy solve some problems? Is

that safe?

>

> Is there a specific reason you're doing the SCD dairy-free?

I guess I more than answered this above. But simply put, here are my

goals:

Good sleep every night

Clear skin

If I have those, i suspect I will be functioning pretty darn well.

Ellen

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

>Every chocolate and chocolate powder I could find has soy lecithin as

>an ingredient. Why is that and isn't it part of the soy taboo or is it

>in such small quantities as to not cause too much concern? Does anyone

>know of a chocolate with no soy?

I don't think Droste cocoa has soy lecitithin, though it's Dutched

and not organic. Shiloh Farms doesn't list it either, though the

flavor of theirs sucks. I don't remember Valrhona (the best-tasting

cocoa I've ever had) listing it either. I suppose they could be

using too little to be required to list it, though. I think it's

used as a flow aid, which probably applies more to cocoa powder than

to chocolate, and it's definitely used as an

emulsifier. Unfortunately it's one of those terms that's used to

encompass a wide variety of compounds which have different effects in

the body. In this case, lecithin = phosphatidyl choline = any of a

number of phospholipids, meaning it can act as a choline source. All

lecithins aren't created equal, though, and egg lecithin is

definitely better than soy lecithin.

As to the question of whether soy lecithin is harmful, that depends

on two factors: whether it's pure, and how it fits into your overall

phospholipid consumption.

If it's pure, there should be no residual pesticides, phytoestrogens,

or other undesirables. I have no idea whether the lecithin used

commercially (or available as a supplement) is pure.

On the second count, the body incorporates dietary phospholipids into

the membranes of neurons and other cells as it finds them to some

extent, meaning that diet influences membrane composition. Eat too

much soy lecithin and you might adversely affect your brain

chemistry, though I don't know whether research has been done on

lecithin specifically as it affects brain phospholipids. If you're

eating plenty of egg yolks, though, and particularly if you're

supplementing with something useful like Alpha GPC choline or CDP

choline (AKA citicoline) then I don't know that a little incidental

soy lecithin would be worth worrying about at all.

-

[Guest guest]

Steph-

> - do they ever actually have that coconut milk in stock?

I haven't ordered in awhile, so I don't know.

>Ellen - I buy dessicated coconut to make milk with. It's not quite as

>rich as the canned stuff, but it works for making coconut milk yogurt.

I've been meaning to try this myself, except that I'm almost out of

desiccated. Gotta reorder soon.

-

[Guest guest]

-

> " A1 Tropics " and " Masagana " are the brands I get. Also they have

>shredded coconut meat and young coconut juice w/pulp (and added sugar)

>Look for stores that cater to Philippinos.

Thanks. I'll keep my eye peeled for something like this.

-

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

>I do not seem to be lactose intolerant. But what you say about the

>long fermenting kefir interests me. i am really in the dark about

>yeasts and microbes. Would vinegar affect a Candida problem?

Some people say yes, others say no, and I don't know that there's any

convincing research in one direction or the other.

>I

>enjoyed the taste of long fermented kefir, but it brought my bowels to

>a halt. (I did not feel constipated. Just had no urge to go for a

>week or so.)

Did you wind up proving to be backed up, so to speak?

>After a

>while it seemed that any ferment would cause this response.

Hmm... This could be glutamate sensitivity, and if so, it might

suggest damage from excitotoxins. Have you consumed MSG or aspartame

(or other excitotoxic compounds) in the past?

>the third thing is that I have had this strange rash on my face. At

>this point it is barely noticible and I am not conerned about it

>because of how I look, but because I am sure it is indicative of

>something not good going on inside. The most important thing to know

>about it is that although the dermatologist admitted they don't know

>what causes this they have found that anitbiotics can resolve it.

Could it be rosacea?

>The other important thing to say I think, is that I have no obervable

>digestive disturbance aside from the queasy stomach that accompanies

>the hung over feeling I have referred to.

Do you have any evidence of candida overgrowth?

>So if my bowels function well, which they do, then there's no

>problem.I guess my question is: can your bowels be funtioning well

>even if you are not digesting disaccarides properly?

The gut is an extremely complex system, and different people can have

breakdowns in different parts of that system, so the answer is yes

and no. The system is too complex to describe it simply as

" functioning well " or " functioning improperly " except on the far ends

of the spectrum.

IOW, you might do fine with coconut flour despite having trouble with

disaccharides... or you might not, or you might only think you do

when in fact you don't.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

>>Ellen - I buy dessicated coconut to make milk with. It's not quite as

>>rich as the canned stuff, but it works for making coconut milk yogurt.

>>

>>

>

>I've been meaning to try this myself, except that I'm almost out of

>desiccated. Gotta reorder soon.

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

It's not thick by any means, but it works for us. I suppose I could try

a ratio of more meat to less water, but I haven't had any reason to at

this point. Oh, also, I stir the yogurt a few times while it's

fermenting (for 12 hours). Otherwise, the fat separates out and becomes

hard in the fridge. I also run the meat through the processor dry first

to make it as small as possible before running it with the water.

Steph

--

www.praisemoves.com

The Christian alternative to yoga

[Guest guest]

>It's not thick by any means, but it works for us. I suppose I could try

>a ratio of more meat to less water, but I haven't had any reason to at

>this point. Oh, also, I stir the yogurt a few times while it's

>fermenting (for 12 hours). Otherwise, the fat separates out and becomes

>hard in the fridge. I also run the meat through the processor dry first

>to make it as small as possible before running it with the water.

Steph,

Do you have a recipe for your coconut milk yogurt? And how to make the milk

from dessicated coconut? Thanks much!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

>>It's not thick by any means, but it works for us. I suppose I could try

>>a ratio of more meat to less water, but I haven't had any reason to at

>>this point. Oh, also, I stir the yogurt a few times while it's

>>fermenting (for 12 hours). Otherwise, the fat separates out and becomes

>>hard in the fridge. I also run the meat through the processor dry first

>>to make it as small as possible before running it with the water.

>>

>>

>

>Steph,

>

>Do you have a recipe for your coconut milk yogurt? And how to make the milk

>from dessicated coconut? Thanks much!

>

>

>Suze Fisher

>

>

For the milk, I take the coconut and run it in the food processor to

make it as small as possible. Then, I run it again with an equal part

of warm/hot water. Then, I strain it through a cloth coffee filter

(bought at that same Asian store where I got the other coconut goodies).

For the yogurt, I use 4 cups of the milk (which means I did 4 cups

coconut meat and 4 cups water above), add 2 Tbsp. honey and 1/8 tsp. GI

Pro Health ProGurt (casein free) starter and just whisk it really well.

Then, stick it in the yogurt maker (I have the euro cuisine with all the

little jars) for 12 hours. I stir it at about 4 and 8 hours and again

right before sticking it in the fridge. It does separate again in the

fridge, but not into a hard layer of coconut oil like if it's not

stirred. It's definitely a liquid, not yogurt like at all in

consistency, but I just think of it as lassi. :-) It's very delicious!

I adapted it from a nut yogurt recipe. She says you can use 1/4 tsp. of

starter and ferment for 8 hours, but when I did that with the nut yogurt

once it didn't come out as well. I also don't know what the purpose of

the honey is. I'm guessing that it's just for flavor in the nut yogurt,

but I keep adding it anyway. Also, I think the milk isn't supposed to

be too hot when you add the starter, but it's always about room temp. by

the time I squeeze all the milk from the meat.

:-)

Steph

--

www.praisemoves.com

The Christian alternative to yoga

[Guest guest]

>

> Ellen-

>

> Did you wind up proving to be backed up, so to speak?

After about two weeks Ijust stopped the kefir. eventually I returned

to normal.

>

> >After a

> >while it seemed that any ferment would cause this response.

>

> Hmm... This could be glutamate sensitivity, and if so, it might

> suggest damage from excitotoxins. Have you consumed MSG or aspartame

> (or other excitotoxic compounds) in the past?

No, never . At least not that I know of . Yes I was thinking

glutatmate sensitivity too. In the last few weeks though i have been

able to have a tiny amount of home cultured veggies without a problem.

does glutamate sensitivity improve? And could it be caused by large

quntities of strong kefir? Or strong (made with twice as much

tea)kombucha? Really, I only care about what might have caused it

insofar as that migh help me get over it. I want to be able to eat

cultured foods.

>

> Could it be rosacea?

When it first occurred I went to the Dermatologist who called it

perioral dermatitis. At that point it was only around my mouth. So

the desigantion may only have had to do with location. It has since

migrated and is now on my cheeks where rosacea usually occurs. I

haven't been back to the doc so I don't know what he would call it

now. And afaik the treatment he would offer would be the same a

course of tetracycline. That's why I am interested in the SCD: as

another way of manipulating my microbes.

>

>.

>

> Do you have any evidence of candida overgrowth?

intermittant brain fog and low energy (better on low carb) long

standing case of toenail and foot fungus. And until recently I put

the not sleeping down to candida.

>

> disaccharides... or you might not, or you might only think you do

> when in fact you don't.

I hear ya. Which is why, at this point I would rather err on the side

of caution.

Thanks so much. this is helping me think this through.

Ellen

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

On Jan 14, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Tameer1@... wrote:

> On the subject of chocolate and SCD,

I must have missed the original email. What is SCD?

I never remember what letters mean so if not too much trouble, hope

most folks spell it out.

Thanks,

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

Parashis wrote:

>

>I must have missed the original email. What is SCD?

>I never remember what letters mean so if not too much trouble, hope

>most folks spell it out.

>

>Thanks,

>

>

> Parashis

>

>

Specific Carbohydrate Diet as outlined int the book _Breaking the

Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall. Here are two sites if you're

interested in more info:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/

www.pecanbread.com

Steph :-)

--

www.praisemoves.com

The Christian alternative to yoga

[Guest guest]

>

> -

>

> >Every chocolate and chocolate powder I could find has soy lecithin as

> >an ingredient. Why is that and isn't it part of the soy taboo or is it

> >in such small quantities as to not cause too much concern? Does anyone

> >know of a chocolate with no soy?

I have Dagoba organic chocolate cacao powder, and the ingredients just

say " Organic cacao powder. "

Also, unexpectedly, Hershey's unsweetened chocolate has chocolate and

cocoa, nothing else. But not organic, of course.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

> does glutamate sensitivity improve?

I'm not sure anyone knows. Inasmuch as it's possible to at least

partially rehabilitate a metabolism damaged by excitotoxins, it seems

like some improvement might be possible. Also, there are nutrients

which block the effects of excitotoxins, such as lithium and

selenium, and nutrients which rebuild neurons, such as lithium and

citicoline, so it seems reasonable to me that any effort to prevent

future damage and repair existing damage from excitotoxins should

involve many or all such nutrients.

>And could it be caused by large

>quntities of strong kefir? Or strong (made with twice as much

>tea)kombucha? Really, I only care about what might have caused it

>insofar as that migh help me get over it. I want to be able to eat

>cultured foods.

The former seems unlikely. The latter possibly less so since

kombucha can have such a strong detoxing/Herxing effect on many people.

-