Re: Metals as 'cause' of viral/immune issues?

[Guest guest]

Have they checked to determine if the metal

accumulation is occuring because of the viral immune

issues? Or that the viral and metal immune issues are

not occuring because of the primary dysfunction? The

studies being done all seem to be in an effort to

prove the connection based on an already believed

hypothesis.

A very important point to make: there are published

documented case studies of children (at least two in

the literature) developing sudden onset of full-blown

autism at the age of 12 after a bout of

viral-encephalitis. The proposed connection to

mercury and vaccines is not a sudden onset like this.

And don't forget about PANDAS - another sudden onset

of acute psych-type diagnosis (and Tourette's as well)

with some types of symptoms similarly related to

autism - as a result of infection and abberant immune

response, with findings of very elevated ASO - and

other immune issues.

Not to mention the strong family histories of

autoimmunity associated with autism - and not just

maternal, but fraternal as well. Mercury didn't cross

over from the father to build up in the fetus, but his

genes with the autoimmunity susceptibility did. And

what if mom had mercury buildup in her system? Again,

immune dysfunction and chronic infections disable

pathways that are involved in eliminating metals. So

if metals are accumulated, no surprise if they want to

blame that as the cause rather than effect of the

dysfunction, but I can guarantee that there would be

little prior documentation to determine if the person

'full of metals' had a pre-existing immune dysfunction

or chronic infection or autoimmunity prior to the

'study'. ** They have, however, been able to go back

to stored umbilical cord blood and find abnormal

balances of immune cells in children w/autism.

Maternal antibodies abound in mothers of autistic

children, but they have not been able to show that all

mothers of autistic children had a mercury burden that

was passed on to their child. The genes and risk

factors were, though.

I would have to look back at the studies on how

mercury affects the immune system and how they were

done. But there is a great deal of research showing

how the immune system is corrupted by microbial

pathogens, and this matches the immune findings in

.

Could anyone post info on the genetic studies of the

glutathione gene? I would be curious to read more

regarding this. First, it's only one part of the

metal excretion pathway. Is this gene confirmed

absent? Or is the gene disabled? Viral infections

are capable of disabling a lot of genes, which is why

I'm curious to read about it. Were these findings

published in reputable journals on genetics?

We know that eosiniphils in food reactions have an

effect on the brain - it was mistaken before (by the

same believers in mercury) as an opiod problem, but

the real research points to the immune system. I've

heard it said that " mercury damaged the bowel " and so

the food was able to cross over. But eosiniphilic

food reactions occur even without 'mercury-damaged'

guts, and occur in a great deal of other autoimmune

disorders like Type I Diabetes (not related to

mercury), MS, asthma, eczema, etc. But the immune

system can sure damage a bowel, as anyone with celiac,

ulcerative colitis, or Crohn's could tell you. It's

amazing the inflammatory reaction that can happen in a

gut trying to fight off yeast or having food

reactions.

Yeast overgrowths so common in these children - and

they were likely common way before any " mercury

buildup from vaccines " hypothetically occured (so then

blame momma's body for being full - I know), but

immune dysfunction (not to mention even the impact on

the body's ability to fight other illness since

Candida blocks Interleukin-12 - another chronic

infection that can tweak the immune system to avoid

it) is far more likely responsible. The abnormal

inflammatory immune response to candida is more

connected to and autoimmunity than it can ever be

found connected to mercury. Because it's not just

some subtle immune deficiency responsible for candida

overgrowths. You have to have a reason for them...

and viral infection and stressed immune system is a

huge one.

Mercury doesn't cause iron depletion, but chronic

immune activation does, and tons of these kids are

anemic but not many people are checking.

If someone wants to try to prove that mercury is

causing all of this, there sure are a lot of ways to

try since acute mercury poisoning and acute viral

infections can have a lot of similar presentations.

But there is so much more overwhelming data pointing

towards the immune dysfunction that when it is all

compared, the mercury view is very very narrow-minded.

When it is pointed out that the MMR is the biggest

trigger, they say " Well all the buildup of mercury

prior to that one caused it " . That is not nearly as

logical as the immune reactions to all the previous

vaccines were dysfunctional (they have similar immune

reactions to vaccines just like the disease but on a

much smaller scale - few would survive all those

infections in early childhood), and the child, for

example already genetically predispositioned or

harboring an active HHV6 virus from mom whose immune

system also isn't recognizing it and allowing it to

pass thru to the child has a stressed immune system

(either from antibiotics, chronic ear infections,

allergies, dairy intolerance, yeast, etc) ... so they

already have a shifted immune system - and we give

this live virus vaccine and the system goes into

overdrive... For instance, a strong shift of

immunity could cause a negative delayed

hypersensitivity skin test - in which a live virus

vaccine was contra-indicated. Also, a negative DHT

can explain why yeast overgrowths are present, or

chronic infections, etc.

The vaccination theory and mercury hypothesis is never

going to stand in the mainstream medical community.

The fight to prove it is only going to meet deaf ears.

To prevent possible vaccine related exacerbations on

an illness that could occur anyway if the stressors

stack up right, it is going to be identifying those

children who would respond negatively to a vaccine

because their immune systems are already in a stressed

state, either due to prenatal factors, delivery

factors (maternal antibiotics setting the stage for

yeast issues in a baby that could be resolved with

probiotics), colic (which I'd bet is an inflammatory

tummy ache from something like a vigorous immune

reaction to yeast or horrible headache from

neuro-inflammation). Just about every mom I've talked

to saw their child get over colic immediately when

they were told to give probiotics. (BTW - Vulvadynia

-not sure of spelling - is an example of a disorder

where the membranes can have such a strong reaction to

Candida that it causes inflammation and pain and some

women benefit from long-term antifungals.)

Sorry to just go on and on - I'm actually trying to be

concise and I just can't seem to shut up. I sound

like I'm defending vaccines, and I won't even finish

my youngest son's. I know my sons had horrible

reactions to vaccines - they both dumped mucous from

their intestines after DTP, and my oldest did

immediately have a significant regression after his

MMR (which little brother hasn't and won't receive

until an epidemic officially breaks out), but it was

the flu that truly pushed my son over the edge. But

in my own childhood, I only had one vaccination at 5

yrs old, and most of my problems were present before

then, and continued to progress without vaccinations,

and I was just as 'sick' as my oldest son is at this

stage and worse off than my youngest. I believe my

kids would still have suffered these problems, just

that they suffered more stress due to their vaccines,

but not because of them.

I don't mean for my debate to be offensive to anyone,

because I also believed in the mercury connection

prior to learning about , and I was just as angry

about it as any parent who has ever considered the

possibility that vaccines that were forced on us

damaged our kids. After understanding , it has

become clear that it is far more complicated than

that. On a very positive note, it is also something

that has a much better chance to be resolved than if

it were truly related to this substance that is

polluting every part of our world and widespread

throughout our environment.

But I do believe that our industrialized food supply,

farming, animal raising and food preparation factors

are even more significant issues facing our health

than pollution, and that reform on that level could

benefit our kids so much. The changes in our food

industry has been going on several generations now,

and the longer it goes this way the sicker we all get

and the more allergies increase, etc. If we have

healthier bodies from healthier food (and I'm not

talking about 'organic' but more about our animals and

failure to rotate crops), our bodies can endure the

pollution much better. We're so focused on what

pollution does that we ignore our biggest controllable

health crisis aside from all the faults with our

medical system. And we hardly hear anything about it.

I'll get off my soapbox now... sorry about that guys.

And I honestly hope I don't offend anyone but rather

simply open up possibilites and further increase

interest in looking beyond one factor and seeing a

much bigger picture that is more understandable, and

perhaps for some, less anger-inducing than a

wide-spread money-based medically careless conspiracy,

which I certainly don't need - not that they are NOT

looking closely enough at the crisis and properly

researching the impact of vaccines on our kids' newly

developing immune systems.

Whew. The end. Sorry again.

Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...> wrote:

> Not , but the reason that both an

> accumulation of metals and viral/immune issues could

> cause autistic behaviours is that metal

> accumulation, particularly mercury, results in

> viral/immune issues.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

....no need to apologise for writing this down..

I appreciate it and am sure many others do to.

thank you for doing so,

best wishes

>

> > Not , but the reason that both an

> > accumulation of metals and viral/immune issues could

> > cause autistic behaviours is that metal

> > accumulation, particularly mercury, results in

> > viral/immune issues.

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

I was putting off the last DTP and Polio for my son....afraid of

sending the immune system off. Finally did it in February, because

the schoool nurse kept eyeing me when I was at school. Did the 2

shots and NOT ONE SIGN or symptom of any reaction. Helped me really

believe his immune system is inching closer to normal. (Did NOT do

the 2nd MMR.)

>

> > Not , but the reason that both an

> > accumulation of metals and viral/immune issues could

> > cause autistic behaviours is that metal

> > accumulation, particularly mercury, results in

> > viral/immune issues.

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

That's awesome. Dr G has promised in the past that my

son wouldn't react like that again when he approved

getting the rest of his vaccines (after age 2 and a

long time on the protocol).

I would bet that the reason my son reacted so badly

would partly be due to the yeast overgrowth he had

since birth, and lactose intolerance, and probably

food sensitivities from something in my breastmilk as

well (although by then I was eating very few things

afraid of setting his tummy off, and all the while it

was probably lactose intolerance.)

But after the countless hours of horrible screaming

and agony that child went thru, I literally start

throwing up on the way to the doctor's office if I had

sheduled a vaccine, which is the biggest reason I

haven't done them. The panic attack just won't let

me.

--- meljackmom <meljackmom@...> wrote:

> ,

> I was putting off the last DTP and Polio for my

> son....afraid of

> sending the immune system off. Finally did it in

> February, because

> the schoool nurse kept eyeing me when I was at

> school. Did the 2

> shots and NOT ONE SIGN or symptom of any reaction.

> Helped me really

> believe his immune system is inching closer to

> normal. (Did NOT do

> the 2nd MMR.)

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

I made it to the bottom of your post!!!

Just wondering if you (or others) remember the movie Awakenings with Robin

and DeNiro? Didn't those people all fall into their catatonic

state after viral-encephalitis? Remember the scene where the doctor reviews all

of their medical records to find a common link?

-

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

Have they checked to determine if the metal

accumulation is occuring because of the viral immune

issues? Or that the viral and metal immune issues are

not occuring because of the primary dysfunction? The

studies being done all seem to be in an effort to

prove the connection based on an already believed

hypothesis.

A very important point to make: there are published

documented case studies of children (at least two in

the literature) developing sudden onset of full-blown

autism at the age of 12 after a bout of

viral-encephalitis. The proposed connection to

mercury and vaccines is not a sudden onset like this.

And don't forget about PANDAS - another sudden onset

of acute psych-type diagnosis (and Tourette's as well)

with some types of symptoms similarly related to

autism - as a result of infection and abberant immune

response, with findings of very elevated ASO - and

other immune issues.

Not to mention the strong family histories of

autoimmunity associated with autism - and not just

maternal, but fraternal as well. Mercury didn't cross

over from the father to build up in the fetus, but his

genes with the autoimmunity susceptibility did. And

what if mom had mercury buildup in her system? Again,

immune dysfunction and chronic infections disable

pathways that are involved in eliminating metals. So

if metals are accumulated, no surprise if they want to

blame that as the cause rather than effect of the

dysfunction, but I can guarantee that there would be

little prior documentation to determine if the person

'full of metals' had a pre-existing immune dysfunction

or chronic infection or autoimmunity prior to the

'study'. ** They have, however, been able to go back

to stored umbilical cord blood and find abnormal

balances of immune cells in children w/autism.

Maternal antibodies abound in mothers of autistic

children, but they have not been able to show that all

mothers of autistic children had a mercury burden that

was passed on to their child. The genes and risk

factors were, though.

I would have to look back at the studies on how

mercury affects the immune system and how they were

done. But there is a great deal of research showing

how the immune system is corrupted by microbial

pathogens, and this matches the immune findings in

.

Could anyone post info on the genetic studies of the

glutathione gene? I would be curious to read more

regarding this. First, it's only one part of the

metal excretion pathway. Is this gene confirmed

absent? Or is the gene disabled? Viral infections

are capable of disabling a lot of genes, which is why

I'm curious to read about it. Were these findings

published in reputable journals on genetics?

We know that eosiniphils in food reactions have an

effect on the brain - it was mistaken before (by the

same believers in mercury) as an opiod problem, but

the real research points to the immune system. I've

heard it said that " mercury damaged the bowel " and so

the food was able to cross over. But eosiniphilic

food reactions occur even without 'mercury-damaged'

guts, and occur in a great deal of other autoimmune

disorders like Type I Diabetes (not related to

mercury), MS, asthma, eczema, etc. But the immune

system can sure damage a bowel, as anyone with celiac,

ulcerative colitis, or Crohn's could tell you. It's

amazing the inflammatory reaction that can happen in a

gut trying to fight off yeast or having food

reactions.

Yeast overgrowths so common in these children - and

they were likely common way before any " mercury

buildup from vaccines " hypothetically occured (so then

blame momma's body for being full - I know), but

immune dysfunction (not to mention even the impact on

the body's ability to fight other illness since

Candida blocks Interleukin-12 - another chronic

infection that can tweak the immune system to avoid

it) is far more likely responsible. The abnormal

inflammatory immune response to candida is more

connected to and autoimmunity than it can ever be

found connected to mercury. Because it's not just

some subtle immune deficiency responsible for candida

overgrowths. You have to have a reason for them...

and viral infection and stressed immune system is a

huge one.

Mercury doesn't cause iron depletion, but chronic

immune activation does, and tons of these kids are

anemic but not many people are checking.

If someone wants to try to prove that mercury is

causing all of this, there sure are a lot of ways to

try since acute mercury poisoning and acute viral

infections can have a lot of similar presentations.

But there is so much more overwhelming data pointing

towards the immune dysfunction that when it is all

compared, the mercury view is very very narrow-minded.

When it is pointed out that the MMR is the biggest

trigger, they say " Well all the buildup of mercury

prior to that one caused it " . That is not nearly as

logical as the immune reactions to all the previous

vaccines were dysfunctional (they have similar immune

reactions to vaccines just like the disease but on a

much smaller scale - few would survive all those

infections in early childhood), and the child, for

example already genetically predispositioned or

harboring an active HHV6 virus from mom whose immune

system also isn't recognizing it and allowing it to

pass thru to the child has a stressed immune system

(either from antibiotics, chronic ear infections,

allergies, dairy intolerance, yeast, etc) ... so they

already have a shifted immune system - and we give

this live virus vaccine and the system goes into

overdrive... For instance, a strong shift of

immunity could cause a negative delayed

hypersensitivity skin test - in which a live virus

vaccine was contra-indicated. Also, a negative DHT

can explain why yeast overgrowths are present, or

chronic infections, etc.

The vaccination theory and mercury hypothesis is never

going to stand in the mainstream medical community.

The fight to prove it is only going to meet deaf ears.

To prevent possible vaccine related exacerbations on

an illness that could occur anyway if the stressors

stack up right, it is going to be identifying those

children who would respond negatively to a vaccine

because their immune systems are already in a stressed

state, either due to prenatal factors, delivery

factors (maternal antibiotics setting the stage for

yeast issues in a baby that could be resolved with

probiotics), colic (which I'd bet is an inflammatory

tummy ache from something like a vigorous immune

reaction to yeast or horrible headache from

neuro-inflammation). Just about every mom I've talked

to saw their child get over colic immediately when

they were told to give probiotics. (BTW - Vulvadynia

-not sure of spelling - is an example of a disorder

where the membranes can have such a strong reaction to

Candida that it causes inflammation and pain and some

women benefit from long-term antifungals.)

Sorry to just go on and on - I'm actually trying to be

concise and I just can't seem to shut up. I sound

like I'm defending vaccines, and I won't even finish

my youngest son's. I know my sons had horrible

reactions to vaccines - they both dumped mucous from

their intestines after DTP, and my oldest did

immediately have a significant regression after his

MMR (which little brother hasn't and won't receive

until an epidemic officially breaks out), but it was

the flu that truly pushed my son over the edge. But

in my own childhood, I only had one vaccination at 5

yrs old, and most of my problems were present before

then, and continued to progress without vaccinations,

and I was just as 'sick' as my oldest son is at this

stage and worse off than my youngest. I believe my

kids would still have suffered these problems, just

that they suffered more stress due to their vaccines,

but not because of them.

I don't mean for my debate to be offensive to anyone,

because I also believed in the mercury connection

prior to learning about , and I was just as angry

about it as any parent who has ever considered the

possibility that vaccines that were forced on us

damaged our kids. After understanding , it has

become clear that it is far more complicated than

that. On a very positive note, it is also something

that has a much better chance to be resolved than if

it were truly related to this substance that is

polluting every part of our world and widespread

throughout our environment.

But I do believe that our industrialized food supply,

farming, animal raising and food preparation factors

are even more significant issues facing our health

than pollution, and that reform on that level could

benefit our kids so much. The changes in our food

industry has been going on several generations now,

and the longer it goes this way the sicker we all get

and the more allergies increase, etc. If we have

healthier bodies from healthier food (and I'm not

talking about 'organic' but more about our animals and

failure to rotate crops), our bodies can endure the

pollution much better. We're so focused on what

pollution does that we ignore our biggest controllable

health crisis aside from all the faults with our

medical system. And we hardly hear anything about it.

I'll get off my soapbox now... sorry about that guys.

And I honestly hope I don't offend anyone but rather

simply open up possibilites and further increase

interest in looking beyond one factor and seeing a

much bigger picture that is more understandable, and

perhaps for some, less anger-inducing than a

wide-spread money-based medically careless conspiracy,

which I certainly don't need - not that they are NOT

looking closely enough at the crisis and properly

researching the impact of vaccines on our kids' newly

developing immune systems.

Whew. The end. Sorry again.

Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...> wrote:

> Not , but the reason that both an

> accumulation of metals and viral/immune issues could

> cause autistic behaviours is that metal

> accumulation, particularly mercury, results in

> viral/immune issues.

>

__________________________________________________