Re: Changed to therapy and metal excretion

[Guest guest]

Was that a Steiner listening therapy? I think I've

heard of that.

The immune system can be strongly affected by

emotions. While I was really ticked off at an

infectious disease doctor who told me I just needed to

" think healthy " , I decided it certainly doesn't hurt

and would be a nice relief for a change, and literally

meditated on it and focused very hard on it. I had

been running a low grade temp at 100 for well over a

year. The fever ended within a few days.

Again, I asked Dr G about this, and he said " Thought

processes are very important, but it is nowhere near

that simple " .

But don't forget to bring joy into your lives and your

children's lives. Don't forget to play and provide

positive experiences even though your kids are sick.

It certainly has an effect on my 5 yr old too.

There is an overlap of symptoms between acute metal

poisoning and acute viral infection, although they

would be very separate diagnosis. I wonder if that

has been misconstrued by some as being linked? The

overlap of symptoms could be explained by the

neurological reaction to both and not necessarily

going hand in hand, although we do know that when the

immune system is fighting a virus, pathways that

eliminate metals are disabled. However, they are

supposed to be re-enabled when the infection is past.

What about all the other minerals that are being

removed, though, by chelation, as well as how common

pretty severe GI infections that occur during therapy,

requiring constant monitoring? Our goal is to reduce

the infectious burdon on our kids until the immune

system can pick up and do the job, and it seems very

scarey to be adding yeast and otherwise seriously

disrupting the mineral balance and GI tract by this.

I've always read that with chelation, this and that

and this has to be monitored very carefully... I

wouldn't want that risk personally.

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> Here's an interesting concept. Dr. Klinghardt MD,

> PhD has done emotional work (as a piece of the

> puzzle) with very ill people that he has found to

> have heavy metal accumulation. He has done before

> and after urine tests on patients that undergo a

> very cathartic type of psychotherapy that is used in

> Europe, but pretty uncommon here in the USA (he is

> German, but practices in the USA). After the 2-day

> therapy, the patients dumped mercury and other heavy

> metals in their urine. They were not using any type

> of chelation. He explains (in ways that I cannot)

> how metal and viruses are bound together, but a

> person's emotional state cannot be ignored either.

> I don't think he has done this before/after test

> with viral treatment per say, because he is big on

> " what ever you do, do not stop your child's mercury

> detox until they are cured (for ASD kids). "

>

> -

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

This particular therapy was popularized by Bert Hellinger and it is known as

Family Constellation Therapy. It has a bit of a psycho-drama flair to it if

that means anything to you.

I was talked out of chelation therapy for myself by a very caring and very

brilliant (IMO) holistic dentist who removed my amalgams at my request back in

the early 90s. He had me do selenium and vitamin C instead. He was not

altogether against chelation, just didn't feel he could recommend any of the

doctors available to do it. I turned down TD-DMPS when my son was 3 and it was

offered to us. I did not want him to be a lab rat and the product was too new.

He has just turned 5 and I would consider it, although to be honest I haven't

been too impressed with the results. Like all ASD treatments it helps some,

does not help others. There is a new chelator developed by Boyd Hailey (Univ of

Kentucky I think) that does not cause yeast flare ups of remove beneficial

minerals. I am curious to see how that one fairs once it gets past animal

testing!

I did terrible on anti-virals myself, so I am not sure that my son would do

well on . We will decide what to do soon. Does Dr. G consider ASD kids to

be primary immunodeficient or secondary or does he even use those terms? How

does he deal with virus that become resistant to the anti-viral medications?

Also does he advise immunity boosters like whey? What does he do to promote

immunity while he is giving medication to disable the viruses?

-

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

Was that a Steiner listening therapy? I think I've

heard of that.

The immune system can be strongly affected by

emotions. While I was really ticked off at an

infectious disease doctor who told me I just needed to

" think healthy " , I decided it certainly doesn't hurt

and would be a nice relief for a change, and literally

meditated on it and focused very hard on it. I had

been running a low grade temp at 100 for well over a

year. The fever ended within a few days.

Again, I asked Dr G about this, and he said " Thought

processes are very important, but it is nowhere near

that simple " .

But don't forget to bring joy into your lives and your

children's lives. Don't forget to play and provide

positive experiences even though your kids are sick.

It certainly has an effect on my 5 yr old too.

There is an overlap of symptoms between acute metal

poisoning and acute viral infection, although they

would be very separate diagnosis. I wonder if that

has been misconstrued by some as being linked? The

overlap of symptoms could be explained by the

neurological reaction to both and not necessarily

going hand in hand, although we do know that when the

immune system is fighting a virus, pathways that

eliminate metals are disabled. However, they are

supposed to be re-enabled when the infection is past.

What about all the other minerals that are being

removed, though, by chelation, as well as how common

pretty severe GI infections that occur during therapy,

requiring constant monitoring? Our goal is to reduce

the infectious burdon on our kids until the immune

system can pick up and do the job, and it seems very

scarey to be adding yeast and otherwise seriously

disrupting the mineral balance and GI tract by this.

I've always read that with chelation, this and that

and this has to be monitored very carefully... I

wouldn't want that risk personally.

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> Here's an interesting concept. Dr. Klinghardt MD,

> PhD has done emotional work (as a piece of the

> puzzle) with very ill people that he has found to

> have heavy metal accumulation. He has done before

> and after urine tests on patients that undergo a

> very cathartic type of psychotherapy that is used in

> Europe, but pretty uncommon here in the USA (he is

> German, but practices in the USA). After the 2-day

> therapy, the patients dumped mercury and other heavy

> metals in their urine. They were not using any type

> of chelation. He explains (in ways that I cannot)

> how metal and viruses are bound together, but a

> person's emotional state cannot be ignored either.

> I don't think he has done this before/after test

> with viral treatment per say, because he is big on

> " what ever you do, do not stop your child's mercury

> detox until they are cured (for ASD kids). "

>

> -

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I mixed in with the text below:

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> I did terrible on anti-virals myself, so I am not

> sure that my son would do well on .

**** Which antiviral? How long were you on them?

What type of problems? If Valtrex, did you wash off

the blue dye?

We will

> decide what to do soon. Does Dr. G consider ASD

> kids to be primary immunodeficient or secondary or

> does he even use those terms?

*** There are the occasional children with

immunodeficiencies - however, they are referred to be

treated as such by standard medicine, and are not

necessarily a hallmark of . Occasionally there

will be abnormalities in the levels of immunoglobulins

like IgG, IgM, IgE, and they can indicate a problem

with infections or immune response to them (in fact,

IgM is another of the major markers for chronic viral

infections, although lack of significant levels does

not rule it out) - sometimes low IgG can get IMGG

(intramuscular immunoglobulins instead of IVIG which

of course if intravenous). Immunoglobulins are

occasionally checked to see how the protocol is going.

Treatment can often bring about major improvements.

But anyway, it is basically more often a dysfunction

than an immunodeficiency. It primarily centers around

cytokines and which cells are being expressed.

Cytokines appear to be at the heart of the disorder,

and it is the percentages/ratios of the types of cells

expressing those cytokines that seem to be the most

significant marker - something very few doctors know

much about yet and even fewer are able to interpret.

How does he deal with

> virus that become resistant to the anti-viral

> medications? Also does he advise immunity boosters

> like whey? What does he do to promote immunity

> while he is giving medication to disable the

> viruses?

>

> -

>

> <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> Was that a Steiner listening therapy? I think

> I've

> heard of that.

>

> The immune system can be strongly affected by

> emotions. While I was really ticked off at an

> infectious disease doctor who told me I just needed

> to

> " think healthy " , I decided it certainly doesn't hurt

> and would be a nice relief for a change, and

> literally

> meditated on it and focused very hard on it. I had

> been running a low grade temp at 100 for well over a

> year. The fever ended within a few days.

> Again, I asked Dr G about this, and he said " Thought

> processes are very important, but it is nowhere near

> that simple " .

>

> But don't forget to bring joy into your lives and

> your

> children's lives. Don't forget to play and provide

> positive experiences even though your kids are sick.

>

> It certainly has an effect on my 5 yr old too.

>

> There is an overlap of symptoms between acute metal

> poisoning and acute viral infection, although they

> would be very separate diagnosis. I wonder if that

> has been misconstrued by some as being linked?

> The

> overlap of symptoms could be explained by the

> neurological reaction to both and not necessarily

> going hand in hand, although we do know that when

> the

> immune system is fighting a virus, pathways that

> eliminate metals are disabled. However, they are

> supposed to be re-enabled when the infection is

> past.

> What about all the other minerals that are being

> removed, though, by chelation, as well as how common

> pretty severe GI infections that occur during

> therapy,

> requiring constant monitoring? Our goal is to

> reduce

> the infectious burdon on our kids until the immune

> system can pick up and do the job, and it seems very

> scarey to be adding yeast and otherwise seriously

> disrupting the mineral balance and GI tract by this.

>

> I've always read that with chelation, this and that

> and this has to be monitored very carefully... I

> wouldn't want that risk personally.

>

> --- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

> wrote:

>

> > Here's an interesting concept. Dr. Klinghardt MD,

> > PhD has done emotional work (as a piece of the

> > puzzle) with very ill people that he has found to

> > have heavy metal accumulation. He has done before

> > and after urine tests on patients that undergo a

> > very cathartic type of psychotherapy that is used

> in

> > Europe, but pretty uncommon here in the USA (he is

> > German, but practices in the USA). After the

> 2-day

> > therapy, the patients dumped mercury and other

> heavy

> > metals in their urine. They were not using any

> type

> > of chelation. He explains (in ways that I cannot)

> > how metal and viruses are bound together, but a

> > person's emotional state cannot be ignored either.

>

> > I don't think he has done this before/after test

> > with viral treatment per say, because he is big on

> > " what ever you do, do not stop your child's

> mercury

> > detox until they are cured (for ASD kids). "

> >

> > -

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

(and April),

I was on Acyclovir, and I don't remember how long or why I feel that I did

terribly. Let me explain that... During the high point of my CFS days, I

remember very little. It is all a big fog! What I took away from my many CFS

treatments is this -- after tens of thousands of dollars worth of allopathic and

alternative treatments someone sold me a $4.95 book on food combining. I cut

wheat, dairy and sugar out of my diet and used the food combining techniques in

the book and regained aproximately 70% of my health ( & cognitive abilities)

back. I decided to take my 70% and run as far away as I could from doctors of

every kind and stayed away for many years! Doctors are more knowledgable now

and I am very good at separating out the talented ones, so I am not so fearful

anymore.

As far as your explaination about immune deficiency vs. disregulation. How

does Dr. G decide which it is for the individual child or does he not think any

ASD kids are immune deficient?

Just curious -- what would a debate between Dr. Sudhir Gupta and Dr. G look

like? And is Dr. G only against IVIG because of the possibility of tainted

plasma or is he opposed to IVIG because deciding to use it does not completely

mesh with his theory of the basis of autism? I am confused about this, because

I believe I read that one of the IVIG proponants (Gupta or Singh-sp?) is a

member of , which does not make sense to me.

-

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

I mixed in with the text below:

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> I did terrible on anti-virals myself, so I am not

> sure that my son would do well on .

**** Which antiviral? How long were you on them?

What type of problems? If Valtrex, did you wash off

the blue dye?

We will

> decide what to do soon. Does Dr. G consider ASD

> kids to be primary immunodeficient or secondary or

> does he even use those terms?

*** There are the occasional children with

immunodeficiencies - however, they are referred to be

treated as such by standard medicine, and are not

necessarily a hallmark of . Occasionally there

will be abnormalities in the levels of immunoglobulins

like IgG, IgM, IgE, and they can indicate a problem

with infections or immune response to them (in fact,

IgM is another of the major markers for chronic viral

infections, although lack of significant levels does

not rule it out) - sometimes low IgG can get IMGG

(intramuscular immunoglobulins instead of IVIG which

of course if intravenous). Immunoglobulins are

occasionally checked to see how the protocol is going.

Treatment can often bring about major improvements.

But anyway, it is basically more often a dysfunction

than an immunodeficiency. It primarily centers around

cytokines and which cells are being expressed.

Cytokines appear to be at the heart of the disorder,

and it is the percentages/ratios of the types of cells

expressing those cytokines that seem to be the most

significant marker - something very few doctors know

much about yet and even fewer are able to interpret.

How does he deal with

> virus that become resistant to the anti-viral

> medications? Also does he advise immunity boosters

> like whey? What does he do to promote immunity

> while he is giving medication to disable the

> viruses?

>

> -

>

> <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> Was that a Steiner listening therapy? I think

> I've

> heard of that.

>

> The immune system can be strongly affected by

> emotions. While I was really ticked off at an

> infectious disease doctor who told me I just needed

> to

> " think healthy " , I decided it certainly doesn't hurt

> and would be a nice relief for a change, and

> literally

> meditated on it and focused very hard on it. I had

> been running a low grade temp at 100 for well over a

> year. The fever ended within a few days.

> Again, I asked Dr G about this, and he said " Thought

> processes are very important, but it is nowhere near

> that simple " .

>

> But don't forget to bring joy into your lives and

> your

> children's lives. Don't forget to play and provide

> positive experiences even though your kids are sick.

>

> It certainly has an effect on my 5 yr old too.

>

> There is an overlap of symptoms between acute metal

> poisoning and acute viral infection, although they

> would be very separate diagnosis. I wonder if that

> has been misconstrued by some as being linked?

> The

> overlap of symptoms could be explained by the

> neurological reaction to both and not necessarily

> going hand in hand, although we do know that when

> the

> immune system is fighting a virus, pathways that

> eliminate metals are disabled. However, they are

> supposed to be re-enabled when the infection is

> past.

> What about all the other minerals that are being

> removed, though, by chelation, as well as how common

> pretty severe GI infections that occur during

> therapy,

> requiring constant monitoring? Our goal is to

> reduce

> the infectious burdon on our kids until the immune

> system can pick up and do the job, and it seems very

> scarey to be adding yeast and otherwise seriously

> disrupting the mineral balance and GI tract by this.

>

> I've always read that with chelation, this and that

> and this has to be monitored very carefully... I

> wouldn't want that risk personally.

>

> --- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

> wrote:

>

> > Here's an interesting concept. Dr. Klinghardt MD,

> > PhD has done emotional work (as a piece of the

> > puzzle) with very ill people that he has found to

> > have heavy metal accumulation. He has done before

> > and after urine tests on patients that undergo a

> > very cathartic type of psychotherapy that is used

> in

> > Europe, but pretty uncommon here in the USA (he is

> > German, but practices in the USA). After the

> 2-day

> > therapy, the patients dumped mercury and other

> heavy

> > metals in their urine. They were not using any

> type

> > of chelation. He explains (in ways that I cannot)

> > how metal and viruses are bound together, but a

> > person's emotional state cannot be ignored either.

>

> > I don't think he has done this before/after test

> > with viral treatment per say, because he is big on

> > " what ever you do, do not stop your child's

> mercury

> > detox until they are cured (for ASD kids). "

> >

> > -

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Again, I answer in the text below - easier for me to

keep my place!

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> (and April),

>

> I was on Acyclovir, and I don't remember how long

> or why I feel that I did terribly.

**** It seems like I remember an explanation why Dr G

uses Valtrex and Famvir over Acyclovir - although they

are converted to acyclovir (by the liver I think?) -

and I wish I could remember why, but I knew I didn't

want to try it myself. And also, the first couple of

weeks or more can give a horrible die-off. I sure

understand the fog sensation - I bet you still look

back and shudder!

I cut wheat,

> dairy and sugar out of my diet and used the food

> combining techniques in the book and regained

> aproximately 70% of my health ( & cognitive

> abilities) back.

**** That removal of dairy wheat and sugar is so

critical. I'm still having trouble staying off, but I

am going to take your comment and run with it and go

ahead and eliminate the last of my bad foods and see

if I don't get further back to where I was 3 yrs ago

(before PANDAS then CFS). At least my brain is

starting to function again, and like you, I'm grateful

for that 70% too - just ready to be 110% in the near

future. Finally believing it may be possible!

> As far as your explaination about immune

> deficiency vs. disregulation. How does Dr. G decide

> which it is for the individual child or does he not

> think any ASD kids are immune deficient?

**** Immune deficiencies are clearly defined and would

be identified in the labs. It is not that common,

really, for a patient to make it to Dr G and those

deficiencies not be identified, although it does

happen. The dysfunctions are much harder to identify,

but the medical history that goes along with autism -

the regression, loss of skills, or stalling in

development are hallmarks that in themselves identify

a disease process, and it all points to that

inflammatory process going on in the brain and body.

>

> Just curious -- what would a debate between Dr.

> Sudhir Gupta and Dr. G look like? .

*** Dunno.

And is Dr. G only

> against IVIG because of the possibility of tainted

> plasma or is he opposed to IVIG because deciding to

> use it does not completely mesh with his theory of

> the basis of autism? I am confused about this,

> because I believe I read that one of the IVIG

> proponants (Gupta or Singh-sp?) is a member of ,

> which does not make sense to me.

**** Dr Singh was on the board, I think? They

don't all have to agree to share info, I guess. Dr G

does prefer IMGG to IVIG because of the infectious

risks - not simply hypothetical as some say, because

cases have been published showing infections from

IVIG, but none for IMGG. Other nasty side effects

come w/ IVIG, too, and he just chooses the IMGG for

safety. First and foremost, he leans to the safest

methods. (I had a doctor scoff about the safety and

say " And yet he uses Diflucan like that?? " - we could

discuss that further). Singh has had a great deal of

contribution to . I can't remember details about

Gupta although the name is familiar. Was he one of

the researchers talked about in " The Virus Within " ?

> -

>

Hope that helps or that I answered the questions

enough... I'll try to re-post the IVIG abstract... and

there was a list of side effects but I didn't save

that one - usually the side effects are temporary -

like terrible headaches and stuff - but it was enough

to turn the doc off of it. And IMGG can be quite

successful for some, too.

Oh - I also remember -my pediatrician said he wouldn't

use IMGG on his dog - would ONLY use IVIG. He

couldn't tell me why, though, except that sometimes

kids had 'topical reactions' - but he was adamant, and

refused to let his nurse teach us how to use it. So

controversy abounds on that one too. Turned out we

never did use it, but it was alright because it was

just going to be a trial - labs weren't particularly

indicating it but we were going to see if it helped

him get over some chronic sinus infections, but they

resolved before I got around to finding someone else

to help me with them.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

My son has low IgG & IgM identified by his pediatrician (a few other

abnormalities as well). I will mail in my paperwork to Goldberg's office this

week and see when he is scheduling. I have had it completed for a while, but my

2 YO scribbled all over it, so I had to request a second copy and re-copy the

information. I need to check up on my cousin and see if she has followed

through and made an appointment for her daughter. She gave up on treatment for

her daughter after the VNS implant failed to reduce her 10 YO daughter's

irretractable -sp? seizures (severe epilepsy and MR following DPT vaccine), so I

am really pushing that she do this. My son has an appointment with Dr. Gupta

(Autism IVIG doc) at UC Irvine on Wednesday, and I am eager to pick his brain

and then see Dr. Goldberg and try to understand where their approaches are

similar and different.

If you are following some type of elimination diet, I highly encourage

throwing in the food combining element (do a search if you are unfamiliar). The

idea is that digestion becomes less taxing, freeing up your body's energy to fix

things/heal. I went from life as a house cat (sleeping most of the day) to

waking up full of energy once I did the food combining, whereas the elimination

itself had only minimal results. I only needed to do this temporarily. I don't

have the energy problems any longer (aches and pains -- that's an other story).

I am odd for someone with CFS, as I detest sugar. I actually crave things that

are bitter (stong teas, broccoli, asparagus and other dark greens). I can only

eat desert if I cover up the sweetness with a strong coffee. My ASD son is the

same. He likes the strangest foods for a child (raw mixed greens, raw onions,

spicey salsas). When he was a toddler (pre-special diet), we would get him a

piece of cake at a child's birthday

party and he would look at it like " gross -- you have got to be kidding!. " I

will never forget the look I got from a friend's husband when he looked down and

saw my son holding a bag of mixed baby green lettuce. He was munching on this

like it was a bag of potato chips & it wasn't my idea -- he picked it himself

for a snack. My daughters are like this too.

Isn't an IMGG injection extremely painful?

-

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

Hi -

Again, I answer in the text below - easier for me to

keep my place!

--- Rob or Sunseri <RobRose@...>

wrote:

> (and April),

>

> I was on Acyclovir, and I don't remember how long

> or why I feel that I did terribly.

**** It seems like I remember an explanation why Dr G

uses Valtrex and Famvir over Acyclovir - although they

are converted to acyclovir (by the liver I think?) -

and I wish I could remember why, but I knew I didn't

want to try it myself. And also, the first couple of

weeks or more can give a horrible die-off. I sure

understand the fog sensation - I bet you still look

back and shudder!

I cut wheat,

> dairy and sugar out of my diet and used the food

> combining techniques in the book and regained

> aproximately 70% of my health ( & cognitive

> abilities) back.

**** That removal of dairy wheat and sugar is so

critical. I'm still having trouble staying off, but I

am going to take your comment and run with it and go

ahead and eliminate the last of my bad foods and see

if I don't get further back to where I was 3 yrs ago

(before PANDAS then CFS). At least my brain is

starting to function again, and like you, I'm grateful

for that 70% too - just ready to be 110% in the near

future. Finally believing it may be possible!

> As far as your explaination about immune

> deficiency vs. disregulation. How does Dr. G decide

> which it is for the individual child or does he not

> think any ASD kids are immune deficient?

**** Immune deficiencies are clearly defined and would

be identified in the labs. It is not that common,

really, for a patient to make it to Dr G and those

deficiencies not be identified, although it does

happen. The dysfunctions are much harder to identify,

but the medical history that goes along with autism -

the regression, loss of skills, or stalling in

development are hallmarks that in themselves identify

a disease process, and it all points to that

inflammatory process going on in the brain and body.

>

> Just curious -- what would a debate between Dr.

> Sudhir Gupta and Dr. G look like? .

*** Dunno.

And is Dr. G only

> against IVIG because of the possibility of tainted

> plasma or is he opposed to IVIG because deciding to

> use it does not completely mesh with his theory of

> the basis of autism? I am confused about this,

> because I believe I read that one of the IVIG

> proponants (Gupta or Singh-sp?) is a member of ,

> which does not make sense to me.

**** Dr Singh was on the board, I think? They

don't all have to agree to share info, I guess. Dr G

does prefer IMGG to IVIG because of the infectious

risks - not simply hypothetical as some say, because

cases have been published showing infections from

IVIG, but none for IMGG. Other nasty side effects

come w/ IVIG, too, and he just chooses the IMGG for

safety. First and foremost, he leans to the safest

methods. (I had a doctor scoff about the safety and

say " And yet he uses Diflucan like that?? " - we could

discuss that further). Singh has had a great deal of

contribution to . I can't remember details about

Gupta although the name is familiar. Was he one of

the researchers talked about in " The Virus Within " ?

> -

>

Hope that helps or that I answered the questions

enough... I'll try to re-post the IVIG abstract... and

there was a list of side effects but I didn't save

that one - usually the side effects are temporary -

like terrible headaches and stuff - but it was enough

to turn the doc off of it. And IMGG can be quite

successful for some, too.

Oh - I also remember -my pediatrician said he wouldn't

use IMGG on his dog - would ONLY use IVIG. He

couldn't tell me why, though, except that sometimes

kids had 'topical reactions' - but he was adamant, and

refused to let his nurse teach us how to use it. So

controversy abounds on that one too. Turned out we

never did use it, but it was alright because it was

just going to be a trial - labs weren't particularly

indicating it but we were going to see if it helped

him get over some chronic sinus infections, but they

resolved before I got around to finding someone else

to help me with them.

__________________________________________________