Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dr Goldberg told me a long time ago that Prozac was first developed as an immune modulating drug which proved to have a " side effect " as an anti depressant. It got marketed as an anti depressant and a lot more SSRI's were developed. Children who are depressed kill themselves and sometimes they are taking antidepressants. Depression is a terrible illness to have and hard to treat in some people. At any rate SSRI's in the protocol are used for their medical affect and are not used for their psychiatric. This is why Dr .Goldberg has everyone start at small doses, work up, and stop when a good response is noted. We certainly have seen SSRI's advance children to a higher level and also in other children we have seen an escalation of undesirable symptoms. SSRI's are no panacea, and autism is a symptom of an underlying disease. Chelation- I am not going to write the long note about how rearranging charged particles in the body is not a terrific idea as I have in the past. I am not going to even point out that traditional medicine, which chelates in a hospital setting because it is considered such a dangerous procedure, has backed off and raised it's upper limits for acceptable levels for lead because the agents that are used for chelating are a danger in and of themselves. What I am going to say is that we have found, in our clinic, the same thing that Dr. Goldberg has found. Children who have been chelated will respond to the protocol but so much more slowly than children who were never chelated. Now you can argue that the high dosage of supplements that these children have also taken are responsible for this and that is something I can't argue against because I do not know. All I know is that if you take a child with comparable blood work at the same age and level the child who has not been chelated takes off and the child who has been chelated makes very, very, slow, erratic progress. Dr. Goldberg stopped taking children who had been chelated because the time it takes to treat one of these children could be spent on four other children who have not been chelated. A lot of children need to be treated and we all feel that we have to help as many as we can. It is a basic triage principle. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 We have never had a child not respond favorably if their parents stay long enough on the protocol to get them stabilized, so I can't answer that question. We have only been doing this for four years and perhaps there is a child we will see who will not respond. Time will tell. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Can this post be forwarded to other groups? - JOSKAT95@... wrote: Dr Goldberg told me a long time ago that Prozac was first developed as an immune modulating drug which proved to have a " side effect " as an anti depressant. It got marketed as an anti depressant and a lot more SSRI's were developed. Children who are depressed kill themselves and sometimes they are taking antidepressants. Depression is a terrible illness to have and hard to treat in some people. At any rate SSRI's in the protocol are used for their medical affect and are not used for their psychiatric. This is why Dr .Goldberg has everyone start at small doses, work up, and stop when a good response is noted. We certainly have seen SSRI's advance children to a higher level and also in other children we have seen an escalation of undesirable symptoms. SSRI's are no panacea, and autism is a symptom of an underlying disease. Chelation- I am not going to write the long note about how rearranging charged particles in the body is not a terrific idea as I have in the past. I am not going to even point out that traditional medicine, which chelates in a hospital setting because it is considered such a dangerous procedure, has backed off and raised it's upper limits for acceptable levels for lead because the agents that are used for chelating are a danger in and of themselves. What I am going to say is that we have found, in our clinic, the same thing that Dr. Goldberg has found. Children who have been chelated will respond to the protocol but so much more slowly than children who were never chelated. Now you can argue that the high dosage of supplements that these children have also taken are responsible for this and that is something I can't argue against because I do not know. All I know is that if you take a child with comparable blood work at the same age and level the child who has not been chelated takes off and the child who has been chelated makes very, very, slow, erratic progress. Dr. Goldberg stopped taking children who had been chelated because the time it takes to treat one of these children could be spent on four other children who have not been chelated. A lot of children need to be treated and we all feel that we have to help as many as we can. It is a basic triage principle. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 (or someone else who knows), If a child who has never been chelated tries and doesn't respond favorably. When they are released as a patient from Dr. Goldbergs or your clinic, are they given a recommnedation to try something else? If so what would that be? Thanks, JOSKAT95@... wrote: Dr Goldberg told me a long time ago that Prozac was first developed as an immune modulating drug which proved to have a " side effect " as an anti depressant. It got marketed as an anti depressant and a lot more SSRI's were developed. Children who are depressed kill themselves and sometimes they are taking antidepressants. Depression is a terrible illness to have and hard to treat in some people. At any rate SSRI's in the protocol are used for their medical affect and are not used for their psychiatric. This is why Dr .Goldberg has everyone start at small doses, work up, and stop when a good response is noted. We certainly have seen SSRI's advance children to a higher level and also in other children we have seen an escalation of undesirable symptoms. SSRI's are no panacea, and autism is a symptom of an underlying disease. Chelation- I am not going to write the long note about how rearranging charged particles in the body is not a terrific idea as I have in the past. I am not going to even point out that traditional medicine, which chelates in a hospital setting because it is considered such a dangerous procedure, has backed off and raised it's upper limits for acceptable levels for lead because the agents that are used for chelating are a danger in and of themselves. What I am going to say is that we have found, in our clinic, the same thing that Dr. Goldberg has found. Children who have been chelated will respond to the protocol but so much more slowly than children who were never chelated. Now you can argue that the high dosage of supplements that these children have also taken are responsible for this and that is something I can't argue against because I do not know. All I know is that if you take a child with comparable blood work at the same age and level the child who has not been chelated takes off and the child who has been chelated makes very, very, slow, erratic progress. Dr. Goldberg stopped taking children who had been chelated because the time it takes to treat one of these children could be spent on four other children who have not been chelated. A lot of children need to be treated and we all feel that we have to help as many as we can. It is a basic triage principle. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 , If I set up a Grand Rounds presentation at our Children's Hospital would you or someone from your clinic make a presentation? If not who should I ask? Dr. Goldberg's office told me he does not do this. I'm sure I could have at least 200 pediatricians in attendence if you came to us, so it does not make sense to have us come to you. - JOSKAT95@... wrote: We have never had a child not respond favorably if their parents stay long enough on the protocol to get them stabilized, so I can't answer that question. We have only been doing this for four years and perhaps there is a child we will see who will not respond. Time will tell. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Mmmmm - I have to share an experience, 'cause I think there is actually a tiny bit more to the suicide/SSRI connection, though still wouldn't want to discourage use by any means. I was given Paxil when I was 22 or 24 for fibromyalgia and restless leg syndrome. (I was also developing a bad state of dysautonomia, MVP and CFS at the time too but didn't quite know it yet.) I was not suffering that much depression at the time - but within 2 weeks on the med (I read this once as a 'danger period' for SSRI and suicide), I had developed a very untypical irritability and very negative outlook. I started picking out the tree that I intended to wrap my car around. I realized a couple of days into suicidal ideation that something was very wrong, called my doctor, and stopped the med abruptly, and the problem vanished. It was so frightening that I went 10 years without ever touching another SSRI. It was not until my own kids were under Dr G's care that I ever tried another SSRI again. I told him about this experience, and he said first, I had definitely been started at too high a dose for me, and that considering the symptoms I was having, I already had a lot of neurological inflammation, and the " jolt " of blood flow into that irritated area (and other things also suggest I have a good bit of hyperperfusion in areas too) could have accounted for the intense negative reaction. He said that is a major reason (the neuro-inflammation/irritation) for starting out at very low doses and slowly raising it as tolerated. I just wanted to share that, because suicidal depression in adolescents is also very possibly a situation. (I hope it's ok for me to mention this...) A doctor told me once of a child who recovered from severe depression because of the protocol. Also, severe biologically-based depression is wide-spread in autoimmune disease - yet another field of research that has given significant contributions to the knowledge behind cytokines and . (I can re-post examples of this if you want. I think I will...) --- JOSKAT95@... wrote: Children who are depressed kill > themselves and sometimes they are taking > antidepressants. Depression is a terrible illness to > have and hard to treat in > some people. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 , Thanks for your reply. How long is long enough on the protocol? Kristy Re: SSRIs and chelation We have never had a child not respond favorably if their parents stay long enough on the protocol to get them stabilized, so I can't answer that question. We have only been doing this for four years and perhaps there is a child we will see who will not respond. Time will tell. E. on RN, MSN LTC ® USA NNY Autism Center _www.nnyautismcenter.com_ (http://www.nnyautismcenter.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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