Re: Social phobia with peers

July 5, 2006

Hi Donna-

I don't have any advice on how to help, but just

wanted to say that I experienced the same problems

when I was a kid - from about 5th grade thru 11th

grade. I had extreme anxiety around kids as well, and

there is no logic to it. I did grow out of it without

any kinds of treatment or 'help', but looking back and

re-experiencing some of it, I would have to say it is

probably more related to an overactive part of the

brain and more of an OCD-ish type symptom - as this

rares up again in me when I have a PANDAS attack (and

the age period that I suffered this the most was two

years after my first really severe PANDAS onset).

Even though I was a very 'asperger-ish' child, I still

think it was more OCD that contributed to those

symptoms.

Perhaps it isn't the SSRI area that needs adjusting

but rather adding or adjusting something like Tenex?

Dr G would know more of course! I wish I knew what

NeuroSpects showed with this particular symptom...

I would also recommend that you take a close look if

the opportunity arises to be on any antibiotics to see

if after a week or so, if the anxiety reduces any...

HTH-

--- princesspeach <donnaaron@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> We are absolutely stumped with something and I'm

> hoping some of you

> can help...my son is 8 and we have been with Dr. G

> for 4 years. There

> are a few areas that need " fine tuning " , so to

> speak, but overall,

> he's doing very well.

>

> His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in

> his development,

> is really severe social anxiety. Although the

> SSRI's have been

> helpful with a great many issues, none of them have

> done really done

> much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I

> would call it

> *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

> Adults don't seem

> to present the same problem for him. Once he gets

> " into " the

> situation, he can sometimes relax and have fun, but

> more often than

> not, he just shuts down and " goes to autism world "

> so that he won't

> have to interact with the peer or peers. More than

> once, I've heard

> him yell " GO AWAY " when a kid approaches him. The

> kids in his

> general-ed class actually LIKE him and have tried to

> engage him.

> There is one kid in the class whom he will

> *sometimes* play with; it

> depends on a lot of factors.

>

> We see Dr. G this Friday and we will most likely be

> changing the SSRI

> again (currently on Celexa). We've tried them all

> before. Anyone

> have additional suggestions to help my little guy?

>

> TIA,

> Donna

>

__________________________________________________

July 5, 2006

Hi ,

You are always a wealth of wisdom and information, thank you so much!!!

OCD is certainly an issue with him; Strep was negative. Even so, he's

been on erythromycin for several months due to something that is

underlying. Dr. G tested for mycoplasma on our last visit and I don't

know the result yet. I had OCD for years until I discovered Zoloft

ten years ago.

I also think adjusting Tenex might be beneficial, but for some reason,

Dr. G hasn't agreed with me on this. It's worked in the past.

Anyway...thanks again for your " first-hand " experience!

Donna

>

> Hi Donna-

> I don't have any advice on how to help, but just

> wanted to say that I experienced the same problems

> when I was a kid - from about 5th grade thru 11th

> grade. I had extreme anxiety around kids as well, and

> there is no logic to it. I did grow out of it without

> any kinds of treatment or 'help', but looking back and

> re-experiencing some of it, I would have to say it is

> probably more related to an overactive part of the

> brain and more of an OCD-ish type symptom - as this

> rares up again in me when I have a PANDAS attack (and

> the age period that I suffered this the most was two

> years after my first really severe PANDAS onset).

> Even though I was a very 'asperger-ish' child, I still

> think it was more OCD that contributed to those

> symptoms.

>

> Perhaps it isn't the SSRI area that needs adjusting

> but rather adding or adjusting something like Tenex?

> Dr G would know more of course! I wish I knew what

> NeuroSpects showed with this particular symptom...

>

> I would also recommend that you take a close look if

> the opportunity arises to be on any antibiotics to see

> if after a week or so, if the anxiety reduces any...

>

> HTH-

>

> --- princesspeach <donnaaron@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi all,

> >

> > We are absolutely stumped with something and I'm

> > hoping some of you

> > can help...my son is 8 and we have been with Dr. G

> > for 4 years. There

> > are a few areas that need " fine tuning " , so to

> > speak, but overall,

> > he's doing very well.

> >

> > His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in

> > his development,

> > is really severe social anxiety. Although the

> > SSRI's have been

> > helpful with a great many issues, none of them have

> > done really done

> > much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I

> > would call it

> > *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

> > Adults don't seem

> > to present the same problem for him. Once he gets

> > " into " the

> > situation, he can sometimes relax and have fun, but

> > more often than

> > not, he just shuts down and " goes to autism world "

> > so that he won't

> > have to interact with the peer or peers. More than

> > once, I've heard

> > him yell " GO AWAY " when a kid approaches him. The

> > kids in his

> > general-ed class actually LIKE him and have tried to

> > engage him.

> > There is one kid in the class whom he will

> > *sometimes* play with; it

> > depends on a lot of factors.

> >

> > We see Dr. G this Friday and we will most likely be

> > changing the SSRI

> > again (currently on Celexa). We've tried them all

> > before. Anyone

> > have additional suggestions to help my little guy?

> >

> > TIA,

> > Donna

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

July 6, 2006

Donna,

I'm curious....what is your son's state of social development? Does

he have the social language to interact with other kids? I mean

does he know what to say, and understand what they say, and have the

ability to go back and forth in play? Does he like interacting

socailly/playing with anyone other than peers?

I ask all of this because I think my son does not have all of these

tools so he avoids interaction. I also noticed in school there are

so many rules and things going on around him, he was so stressed out

about " toeing the line " so to speak he could not relax. Therapists

have mentioned to me to get him in a social skills group, but I

always worry about the mix of kids in such environments.

Here is another question...has he had bad social experiences in the

past? I know my son forgets *Nothing*, so he will avoid a situation

where he already knows he can't cope or be successful or really

understand what is going on. (Looking on when he interacts with

others, I can see how he is at a 3-4 yr old level, even though he is

6 yrs old.)

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > We are absolutely stumped with something and I'm

> > > hoping some of you

> > > can help...my son is 8 and we have been with Dr. G

> > > for 4 years. There

> > > are a few areas that need " fine tuning " , so to

> > > speak, but overall,

> > > he's doing very well.

> > >

> > > His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in

> > > his development,

> > > is really severe social anxiety. Although the

> > > SSRI's have been

> > > helpful with a great many issues, none of them have

> > > done really done

> > > much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I

> > > would call it

> > > *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

> > > Adults don't seem

> > > to present the same problem for him. Once he gets

> > > " into " the

> > > situation, he can sometimes relax and have fun, but

> > > more often than

> > > not, he just shuts down and " goes to autism world "

> > > so that he won't

> > > have to interact with the peer or peers. More than

> > > once, I've heard

> > > him yell " GO AWAY " when a kid approaches him. The

> > > kids in his

> > > general-ed class actually LIKE him and have tried to

> > > engage him.

> > > There is one kid in the class whom he will

> > > *sometimes* play with; it

> > > depends on a lot of factors.

> > >

> > > We see Dr. G this Friday and we will most likely be

> > > changing the SSRI

> > > again (currently on Celexa). We've tried them all

> > > before. Anyone

> > > have additional suggestions to help my little guy?

> > >

> > > TIA,

> > > Donna

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

July 6, 2006

Hi Donna,

We are new to this group.....am filling out paperwork to see if we can get an

appointment

with Dr. G......hope my info. for you is acceptable with the protocol......

My eldest son is 8 (53 lbs.)and he also had a lot of anxiety and fears (per a

professional) as

well as ADHD. It wasn't social anxiety per se, but just anxiety in general. We

tried both

Zoloft and Prozac. The neg. side effects greatly outweighed the positives.

Like you, since he was getting older, this was becoming al problem for him and

the whole

family. I came across Dr. Stoll's work from Harvard on EFA's and bipolar

and

thought it might apply in helping my son's anxiety (he is not bipolar).

As you may know, the EPA part of the essential fatty acids helps mood and

anxiety. We

are having GREAT success with giving him about 1 tsp. (a little over 3 gms of

EFAs) of

Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega liquid. It is much better than any SSRI we tried

without

any side effects. (OmegaBrite was used in the study and I now know personally

some

psychologists that use that; but NN we can get easily at Whole Foods and the EPA

is almost

the same. )

I wasn't expecting the results we got. (I am a bit of a skeptic until I see the

research and

the results.) After about 4 weeks of using the EFAs, his anxiety (social and

otherwise)

lessened considerably and all his intense fears of water running and dark clouds

just

vanished. (I am NOT overestimating here! ) We also saw other positives....higher

social/

emotional interaction, more creativity in play and drawing, more meeting of

other's needs

without being asked ( " Mom, the garbage is full. Would you like me to empty

it? " ), 4 lb.

weight gain (he was very skinny), more self-organization in completing school

work, and

constipation issues went away. We did not do any other protocol at this time.

We went to a party on Memorial Day and he had absolutely no social issues at

all. He

played extremely well and appropriately with the other children his age (he

didn't know the

children) and conversed as if he had never had a problem.

Also, we started the EFAs at 1/2 tsp. and realized 1 tsp. worked well for him.

We went a

little higher, but saw no further changes so we keep the dosage at 1 tsp/day.

(For years

prior, he had been on NN DHA for Children...a much lower strength EFA with much

lower

EPA and DHA. Now we know this was not nearly enough for him. )

It has been 3 1/2 months now that he has been on this regimen and all the

positives

remain. Sorry for the long post, but I know this is an issue with so many

mothers.

I hope this helps. It might be worth a try.......

The best of luck to you and your son! Anne

>

> His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in his development,

> is really severe social anxiety. Although the SSRI's have been

> helpful with a great many issues, none of them have done really done

> much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I would call it

> *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

July 6, 2006

>

> Donna,

> I'm curious....what is your son's state of social development? Does

> he have the social language to interact with other kids? I mean

> does he know what to say, and understand what they say, and have the

> ability to go back and forth in play? Does he like interacting

> socailly/playing with anyone other than peers?

> I ask all of this because I think my son does not have all of these

> tools so he avoids interaction. I also noticed in school there are

> so many rules and things going on around him, he was so stressed out

> about " toeing the line " so to speak he could not relax. Therapists

> have mentioned to me to get him in a social skills group, but I

> always worry about the mix of kids in such environments.

>

> Here is another question...has he had bad social experiences in the

> past? I know my son forgets *Nothing*, so he will avoid a situation

> where he already knows he can't cope or be successful or really

> understand what is going on. (Looking on when he interacts with

> others, I can see how he is at a 3-4 yr old level, even though he is

> 6 yrs old.)

>

Hi ,

These are great questions...He does still have some trouble with

pragmatic language, i.e., not always knowing the appropriate thing to

say in conversation. He definitely understands everything that is

said. The social situations that I set up are generally ones where

there doesn't have to be a lot of back-and-forth talking, but he is

even balking at those now. I do think that being in a regular-ed

classroom for the first time this past year has contributed a lot to

his anxiety. I think probably what he considers to be " failures " have

probably occurred at school, even with aides present. One thing I've

found frustrating is that he seems to experience the most fear *right

after a successful interaction*, like he's afraid he won't be able to

reproduce the same success. Instead of his confidence building, it

diminishes.

Incidentally, I've found social skills groups to be very, very

helpful, provided the group provides opportunities for generalization

into the community. Most social skills groups that I've been involved

with try to match kids and ability levels.

Donna

>

> > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > We are absolutely stumped with something and I'm

> > > > hoping some of you

> > > > can help...my son is 8 and we have been with Dr. G

> > > > for 4 years. There

> > > > are a few areas that need " fine tuning " , so to

> > > > speak, but overall,

> > > > he's doing very well.

> > > >

> > > > His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in

> > > > his development,

> > > > is really severe social anxiety. Although the

> > > > SSRI's have been

> > > > helpful with a great many issues, none of them have

> > > > done really done

> > > > much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I

> > > > would call it

> > > > *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

> > > > Adults don't seem

> > > > to present the same problem for him. Once he gets

> > > > " into " the

> > > > situation, he can sometimes relax and have fun, but

> > > > more often than

> > > > not, he just shuts down and " goes to autism world "

> > > > so that he won't

> > > > have to interact with the peer or peers. More than

> > > > once, I've heard

> > > > him yell " GO AWAY " when a kid approaches him. The

> > > > kids in his

> > > > general-ed class actually LIKE him and have tried to

> > > > engage him.

> > > > There is one kid in the class whom he will

> > > > *sometimes* play with; it

> > > > depends on a lot of factors.

> > > >

> > > > We see Dr. G this Friday and we will most likely be

> > > > changing the SSRI

> > > > again (currently on Celexa). We've tried them all

> > > > before. Anyone

> > > > have additional suggestions to help my little guy?

> > > >

> > > > TIA,

> > > > Donna

> > > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

July 6, 2006

Donna,

Thanks for the info. It is so helpful in understanding how our

kids develop, and they do develop it is just in a different way. I

too think the general ed class added to the stress....and that would

be so frustrating to have positive exchanges followed up by more

anxiety! This stuff is giving me lots of grays!

> > > >

> > > > > Hi all,

> > > > >

> > > > > We are absolutely stumped with something and I'm

> > > > > hoping some of you

> > > > > can help...my son is 8 and we have been with Dr. G

> > > > > for 4 years. There

> > > > > are a few areas that need " fine tuning " , so to

> > > > > speak, but overall,

> > > > > he's doing very well.

> > > > >

> > > > > His biggest problem, and what's holding him back in

> > > > > his development,

> > > > > is really severe social anxiety. Although the

> > > > > SSRI's have been

> > > > > helpful with a great many issues, none of them have

> > > > > done really done

> > > > > much to alleviate his extreme anxiety -- indeed, I

> > > > > would call it

> > > > > *fear* -- when he has to interact with other kids.

> > > > > Adults don't seem

> > > > > to present the same problem for him. Once he gets

> > > > > " into " the

> > > > > situation, he can sometimes relax and have fun, but

> > > > > more often than

> > > > > not, he just shuts down and " goes to autism world "

> > > > > so that he won't

> > > > > have to interact with the peer or peers. More than

> > > > > once, I've heard

> > > > > him yell " GO AWAY " when a kid approaches him. The

> > > > > kids in his

> > > > > general-ed class actually LIKE him and have tried to

> > > > > engage him.

> > > > > There is one kid in the class whom he will

> > > > > *sometimes* play with; it

> > > > > depends on a lot of factors.

> > > > >

> > > > > We see Dr. G this Friday and we will most likely be

> > > > > changing the SSRI

> > > > > again (currently on Celexa). We've tried them all

> > > > > before. Anyone

> > > > > have additional suggestions to help my little guy?

> > > > >

> > > > > TIA,

> > > > > Donna

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

July 7, 2006

Donna,

The only way to get our kids over the fears is to have them do what scares them.

Unfortunately we gently have to force them to have social interaction. The more

they do it the less afraid they become. Pick social situations where they will

be successful like playing Computer games or Nintendo. Going to the movies or

swimming with another kid is also good because they don't have to converse much.

I used to give my kid unlimited computer or things that he liked when he did

them with a friend. And I just made it a rule that he had to have a friend over

twice a week. He could pick who and when. If he didn't pick, I picked for him.

I would make the time short so he would be successful and leave wanting more.

Also we started with one kid at a time and I would facilitate the play so the

other kid had fun back when my kid wasn't too fun to play with. Lots of snacks

and fun activities. My house was the Kool-Aid house. All the kids wanted to

come play; not because my son was so social (far from the case) but because

there was great stuff to eat and do. They also got a lot of attention from me.

Marcia

July 7, 2006

I couldn't agree more. When we first brought our daughter home from China we

had no clue that she was autistic we believed that she was just reacting to her

isolation at the SWI and so we pushed her into everything even when she resisted

and believe me she did. WOW that girl has some lungs. Anyway after the first

few times of doing something she did them without battles. When I say that

everything was a battle in the beginning I can honestly say that it was

everything from stepping off a rug to walking into the kitchen. If we made her

change anything she was stressed. Needless to say she was one stressed out girl

for a while but today she is amazingly different with her own little quirky

ways. Sheri

hindssite@... wrote: Donna,

The only way to get our kids over the fears is to have them do what scares them.

Unfortunately we gently have to force them to have social interaction. The more

they do it the less afraid they become. Pick social situations where they will

be successful like playing Computer games or Nintendo. Going to the movies or

swimming with another kid is also good because they don't have to converse much.

I used to give my kid unlimited computer or things that he liked when he did

them with a friend. And I just made it a rule that he had to have a friend over

twice a week. He could pick who and when. If he didn't pick, I picked for him. I

would make the time short so he would be successful and leave wanting more. Also

we started with one kid at a time and I would facilitate the play so the other

kid had fun back when my kid wasn't too fun to play with. Lots of snacks and fun

activities. My house was the Kool-Aid house. All the kids wanted to come play;

not because my son was so

social (far from the case) but because there was great stuff to eat and do.

They also got a lot of attention from me.

Marcia

July 8, 2006

Marcia

These are great ideas. You have a lot of enthusiasm and energy. At

what age/ages did you do this, and for how long?

>

> Donna,

> The only way to get our kids over the fears is to have them do

what scares them. Unfortunately we gently have to force them to

have social interaction. The more they do it the less afraid they

become. Pick social situations where they will be successful like

playing Computer games or Nintendo. Going to the movies or swimming

with another kid is also good because they don't have to converse

much. I used to give my kid unlimited computer or things that he

liked when he did them with a friend. And I just made it a rule

that he had to have a friend over twice a week. He could pick who

and when. If he didn't pick, I picked for him. I would make the

time short so he would be successful and leave wanting more. Also

we started with one kid at a time and I would facilitate the play so

the other kid had fun back when my kid wasn't too fun to play with.

Lots of snacks and fun activities. My house was the Kool-Aid house.

All the kids wanted to come play; not because my son was so social

(far from the case) but because there was great stuff to eat and

do. They also got a lot of attention from me.

> Marcia

>

July 10, 2006

,

I started doing these social things when he was supposed to start interaction

with peers. About four or five. Back then we only had friends maybe once a

week. I know it takes tremendous energy to do this, but what choice do we have?

We are all they have. No one is going to do this for you. If I knew back then,

he would eventually get better I would have had the energy to do more. The

hardest part is getting up everyday and continuing when you think they will

always be autistic and nothing can help. For me, I did things so I wouldn't

have guilt later and so I could say I did all I could for my kid. Back then I

didn't have a clue he really would get better and recover. It was a long slow

process with three steps forward and ten steps back. But it worked and now I

have a kid with a 4.12 GPA, who drives and aced his ACT and SAT's.

I had no idea of all he was capable of when he was little extremely weird, in

the third percentile for speech,threw tantrums, bit his sister and screamed

whenever I introduced something new. However that hard work paid off. My kid

won't be in an institution like the psychiatrists told me. The only institution

he may be going to might be Stanford. That is where he wants to go to college,

although I warned him that hardly anyone gets accepted there. We are just so

proud of him and wherever he goes is more than I ever expected.

Marcia

Posted by: " meljackmom " meljackmom@... meljackmom

Sat Jul 8, 2006 6:01 pm (PST)