Re: Uncooperative GP

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug

A couple of things popped into my mind as I read your post.

First...as the others have told you there are a few men on this list, but they

don't post often. I don't know if they are intimidated by all us women or if as

you stated being men they aren't as vocal as women tend to be. Maybe if they

see you posting, they will appreciate the presence of another male and start to

post more often.

Regarding your mother and her GP. She probably feels more comfortable with her

GP since he is older and therefor closer in age to her. Probably most older MDs

aren't quite as knowledgable re BP since it was added to the DSM later and

therefor to them is on the fringe of medical thought. But those of us who have

lived with a BP know exactly what you are talking about and WE BELIEVE.

It appears to me that you and your family are taking a lot of steps to help your

mother. I think that as children we feel it is our responsibility to and we

want to help our parents. But what I have discovered is that most BP parents

will not admit that it is them. It is always someone else. Therefor they do

not usually get help even when they are shown how. It's that old saying " you

can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink " .

Instead of worrying about my nada...I have had to take steps to protect me and

my family. My nada also makes suicide threats, especially when we are mean to

her. They were tearing me up emotionally. I had to learn to distance myself

from her so she could not control me. I had to learn to not answer the phone

when I didn't feel like it. I use caller ID. I had to learn to end phone

conversations when I started getting upset. My nada lives in a world of chaos

and crazy making. She loves to bring that world into mine. I had to find a way

to stop that.

Of course during all this she would go to her therapist and tell her how mean we

were to her. Then she would call us and tell us how her therapist said we

needed to become her support group etc.. I was always shocked that her

therapist bought into her story. But I had to learn not to be influenced by

this. Luckily I have a sister who I was able to go to and bounce things off of.

Between the two of us we kept each other straight.

Uncooperative GP

Hello folks,

I'm new to this group, and just wondering what advice some might

offer for our family's predicament.

First, what does KO stand for? And is it proper here to refer to a

BPD mother as " nada " ?

As briefly as I can, due to her bizarre behavior a few health

professionals advised that I have my 78 year old mother assessed.

Exactly what kind of assessment they didn't make clear, but they

spoke in terms to her " emotional " and " behavioral " problems. This

behavior has taken an enormous emotional toll on her family for many

years. We just didn't know what was wrong.

Her regular GP has been uncooperative, brushing off the issues I

bring to him as merely a conflict between a disgruntled son and his

oh so charming mother. Perhaps he saw that I was angry. If he had to

endure what her family has, he would be angry too. Strange because I

have even told him about her suicide threats.

I managed to get nada to another GP for an interview and referral. He

concluded, with personal certainty, that nada was BPD, and referred

her to a psychiatrist.

She broke the appointment twice, first because there was no guarantee

that the psychiatrist would assess HER family members (my brother, my

wife and I, we're all crazy, you know). Note that she's alienated all

family members and believes that they conspire against her. The next

time she cancelled because it was not her regular GP who made the

referral. Apparently the intake nurse agreed with her. Both doctors

later opined that it didn't matter who made the referral, and her

regular GP felt that the intake nurse didn't handle things properly.

So my brother, wife and I all head to see her regular GP. We are

very, very concerned and try to impress upon him that we need his

help. Though he seemed more receptive now that THREE family members

confronted him, he believes that my mother is not " psychotic " . I

inferred from this that he doesn't believe that she needs a

psychiatrist. Also, he seems to think that the whole issue of

personality disorders is on the fringe of medical thought.

I'm wondering what others might think about this doctor's opinion and

how I might counter it or what a next step might be. He seems to

thinks that a person must lose touch with reality before it's

necessary to make a referral to a psychiatrist. This does not sound

right to me. Her behavior is ripping an entire family apart. Is this

not significant? What about the interests and concerns of the

family? And it's not just us, it's ALL family members that are

affected.

I think that he has been hoodwinked by nada's charms and/or might not

care much since he's biding time before retirement. He's older like

my mother, and my mother can come across as a sweet, charming and

attractive individual when she wants to. But to her family she's the

devil in disguise. Is this man just blind?

Thanks for listening. It's been a nightmare.

Doug

To get off the list, send a blank message to

ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot; a primer

for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of

contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug

A couple of things popped into my mind as I read your post.

First...as the others have told you there are a few men on this list, but they

don't post often. I don't know if they are intimidated by all us women or if as

you stated being men they aren't as vocal as women tend to be. Maybe if they

see you posting, they will appreciate the presence of another male and start to

post more often.

Regarding your mother and her GP. She probably feels more comfortable with her

GP since he is older and therefor closer in age to her. Probably most older MDs

aren't quite as knowledgable re BP since it was added to the DSM later and

therefor to them is on the fringe of medical thought. But those of us who have

lived with a BP know exactly what you are talking about and WE BELIEVE.

It appears to me that you and your family are taking a lot of steps to help your

mother. I think that as children we feel it is our responsibility to and we

want to help our parents. But what I have discovered is that most BP parents

will not admit that it is them. It is always someone else. Therefor they do

not usually get help even when they are shown how. It's that old saying " you

can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink " .

Instead of worrying about my nada...I have had to take steps to protect me and

my family. My nada also makes suicide threats, especially when we are mean to

her. They were tearing me up emotionally. I had to learn to distance myself

from her so she could not control me. I had to learn to not answer the phone

when I didn't feel like it. I use caller ID. I had to learn to end phone

conversations when I started getting upset. My nada lives in a world of chaos

and crazy making. She loves to bring that world into mine. I had to find a way

to stop that.

Of course during all this she would go to her therapist and tell her how mean we

were to her. Then she would call us and tell us how her therapist said we

needed to become her support group etc.. I was always shocked that her

therapist bought into her story. But I had to learn not to be influenced by

this. Luckily I have a sister who I was able to go to and bounce things off of.

Between the two of us we kept each other straight.

Uncooperative GP

Hello folks,

I'm new to this group, and just wondering what advice some might

offer for our family's predicament.

First, what does KO stand for? And is it proper here to refer to a

BPD mother as " nada " ?

As briefly as I can, due to her bizarre behavior a few health

professionals advised that I have my 78 year old mother assessed.

Exactly what kind of assessment they didn't make clear, but they

spoke in terms to her " emotional " and " behavioral " problems. This

behavior has taken an enormous emotional toll on her family for many

years. We just didn't know what was wrong.

Her regular GP has been uncooperative, brushing off the issues I

bring to him as merely a conflict between a disgruntled son and his

oh so charming mother. Perhaps he saw that I was angry. If he had to

endure what her family has, he would be angry too. Strange because I

have even told him about her suicide threats.

I managed to get nada to another GP for an interview and referral. He

concluded, with personal certainty, that nada was BPD, and referred

her to a psychiatrist.

She broke the appointment twice, first because there was no guarantee

that the psychiatrist would assess HER family members (my brother, my

wife and I, we're all crazy, you know). Note that she's alienated all

family members and believes that they conspire against her. The next

time she cancelled because it was not her regular GP who made the

referral. Apparently the intake nurse agreed with her. Both doctors

later opined that it didn't matter who made the referral, and her

regular GP felt that the intake nurse didn't handle things properly.

So my brother, wife and I all head to see her regular GP. We are

very, very concerned and try to impress upon him that we need his

help. Though he seemed more receptive now that THREE family members

confronted him, he believes that my mother is not " psychotic " . I

inferred from this that he doesn't believe that she needs a

psychiatrist. Also, he seems to think that the whole issue of

personality disorders is on the fringe of medical thought.

I'm wondering what others might think about this doctor's opinion and

how I might counter it or what a next step might be. He seems to

thinks that a person must lose touch with reality before it's

necessary to make a referral to a psychiatrist. This does not sound

right to me. Her behavior is ripping an entire family apart. Is this

not significant? What about the interests and concerns of the

family? And it's not just us, it's ALL family members that are

affected.

I think that he has been hoodwinked by nada's charms and/or might not

care much since he's biding time before retirement. He's older like

my mother, and my mother can come across as a sweet, charming and

attractive individual when she wants to. But to her family she's the

devil in disguise. Is this man just blind?

Thanks for listening. It's been a nightmare.

Doug

To get off the list, send a blank message to

ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot; a primer

for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of

contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

> >>>>> Her regular GP has been uncooperative, brushing off the issues I

> bring to him as merely a conflict between a disgruntled son and his

> oh so charming mother. Perhaps he saw that I was angry. If he had to

> endure what her family has, he would be angry too. Strange because I

> have even told him about her suicide threats.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Doug, this is what I've experienced from even my family members and

close family friends. Only a few years ago did nada turn on an aunt and

voila - she finally understood what I was trying to say. This has got

to be the worst mental illness for both the victim and the family. the

victim won't admit there's a problem and if they are very high

functioning they can hide it, so that no one believes you. If that

lovely GP was to tell her she had a problem or criticize her in any way,

he'd probably find out real fast that she had a problem...lol...I asked

my therapist at one time if I could take my to court and have her

declared unstable and he didn't think I could win, so.....I don't know

how bad your nadas problems are, but maybe you and the family need to

just set some very firm, tall, wide boundaries with her.

Read SWOE and UTBM!!!!!!!! Also I enjoyed (wrong word possibly!) " Toxic

Parents " , " Emotional Blackmail " and " Boundaries " . Nadas are very sick

and their thoughts are so off the wall, that it does hurt and this list

can really help you to heal. It certainly has helped me the last 2 yrs.

Ilene

>

>

>

>

> To get off the list, send a blank message to

> ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

> ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot;

> a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL ().

> For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Memories coming back..........

Back in the mid-90s, when mother was seriously mismanaging her finances,

I spoke with an attorney-friend about it, and he gave me some very

practical advice. He said the only thing I could do was file for a

conservatorship, which would be a very costly and time-consuming

process. Mother's financial ability would be assessed by various social

workers, psychologists, doctors, etc. If the conservatorship was

granted, every penny I spent on her behalf would be reviewed by the

courts, which would be a nightmare. On the other hand, if the " experts "

determined that she didn't need a conservatorship, AND if mother

subsequently did something financially irresponsible, such as " quit

claiming " her house to a bunch of con-artists while drunk, the only

recourse I'd have would be to sue the courts for redress. And I'd lose,

because it would be determined that at the time she was evaluated, she

was " perfectly fine " , and that her problem developed " later " . What a

fine kettle of fish!

At that time in my life, when I was hell-bent on fixing mother's

problems, this only added to my deepening frustrations. Mother needed

help, I wanted to help her, mother was determined to remain autonomous,

and the whole world seemed to be in favor of keeping her that way. If

con-artists did her in, oh well. She'd already signed away her $40,000

IRA to some con-artists one evening while drunk, so I knew what could

happen. I managed to recover the entire thing for her, but how long

could I continue to perform miracles? Not very long, given how little

support I received by people in authority (doctors, social workers,

etc), as I tried my best to do what was right by her.

All the thanks I got for all my efforts was being the butt of a

distortion campaign and getting disowned and disinherited. If only I

had known years ago, I could have saved myself a lot of grief and

aggravation. Dealing with BPDs is a losing battle, almost always!

SmileS!

Carol

Ilene Pedersen wrote:

> I asked my therapist at one time if I could take my to court and

> have her declared unstable and he didn't think I could win,

[Guest guest]

Hi Ilene,

This has got

> to be the worst mental illness for both the victim and the family.

the

> victim won't admit there's a problem and if they are very high

> functioning they can hide it, so that no one believes you. If that

> lovely GP was to tell her she had a problem or criticize her in any

way,

> he'd probably find out real fast that she had a problem.

My mother did make threats against the other GP who first referred

her. As I've told some, she is a legend in her own mind. When someone

threatens that illusion she goes on the warpath. In fact I warned the

GP to be on the lookout. Our attorney tells us that she would get no

where.

The insight those in this group have into the behavior of these ill

individuals is amazing. So happy to be here.

warm regards,

Doug

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

I read your post with great interest because, again, someone has had

an almost identical experience as I have.

My nada has lost several tens of thousands of dollars to home

renovator con artists. She married two of them. She seems to fall for

them and other men of ill repute very easily (not so much now that

she's pushing 80). More recently in the mid 1990's she lost $40,000

to a crook home renovator, then had to spend that amount again to

repair the shoddy work the crook left behind. Naturally she wouldn't

listen to the family when we told her to fire him, and at one point

expressed concern for the sob.

In Canada where I reside, the conservatorship is called a

committeeship. We consulted an attorney as well but decided against

it because of the cost and likelihood of failure. Legal fees would be

up to $20,000. Two physicians must state that nada in not capable of

handling her financial affairs, and they must be paid for the

assessment. The courts are never keen to grant a committeeship, so

for all our efforts we would likely get nowhere.

I'm sorry to hear that you had little support from the professionals.

It goes against all reason. A family member's opinion should hold

great weight. Perhaps they thought you had an ulterior motive.

I've been accused of being just plain mean and vindictive. I've been

accused of trying to get nada into a psychiatrist to have

her declared incompetant so that I could grab her money. My nada has

poor judgment but it would be tough to show that she's incompetant. I

suspect most BP's at least project the image of competance very well.

Also, a committeship or conservatorship is NOT a money grab. Her

assests are simply handled by a trustee for her benefit.

My nada played the disinheritance card also after her GP validated

her, telling her she didn't need to see a psychiatrist. But as I've

mentioned he changed his tune somewhat when my wife and I accompanied

him. I know it's trite to say hindsight is 20/20, but were you able

to get support from other family members at the time? It seems to

make an enormous difference.

Finally, like you, through the whole process I was a victim of a

smear campaign. This is all so very difficult.

Doug

> > I asked my therapist at one time if I could take my to court and

> > have her declared unstable and he didn't think I could win,

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug!

It's so frustrating, isn't it?

I had the full support and backing of my immediate family (husband and

adult children), but hubby would say things like, " Just ignore her " ,

" Don't let her get to you! " , " Will you just forget about it! " , " Move

on " . I'm sure you know the rhetoric. I hated " dumping " on my children,

but I often couldn't hold back. My only sibling, a brother three years

younger, who lives 3000 miles away, is also BPD (I suspect) and

alcoholic, just like mother. We've never been close over the years, and

he refused to even talk to me when things were very difficult with

mother during the late 90s. Dad, who lives with my brother, basically

didn't want to listen to me wail, so the topic was off-limits, more or

less. Friends got sick of me crying in my beer (couldn't blame them).

That was the sum total of my support system. No one had any answers,

and I was sinking in the quicksand. I didn't know about BPD or this

list.

No one had any answers, not my children, or friends, or even hubby. I

was encouraged to help her as best I could, because I'd live to regret

it after she was gone, if I didn't. I thought I was the only person

with this problem, and I couldn't understand why. No one really knew

mother the way I did, except my father and brother, and they weren't

there for me when the going got tough.

In 1999 things culminated in a blowup, followed by a divorce. I

floundered for 1.5 years afterwards, trying to figure out why, why,

why. Since then, I've done a lot of healing. It's taken a long time,

but the pieces of the puzzle are falling together very nicely.

Holding on to hell seems better than risking the unknown. Mother

dragged me into hell, but I got up, dusted myself off, and began the

long climb out. She's still way down there imprisoned in her own

Self-made hell, but I'm no longer there by her side. Life is grand

without her.

SmileS!

Carol

Doug wrote:

> were you able

> to get support from other family members at the time? It seems to

> make an enormous difference.

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug!

It's so frustrating, isn't it?

I had the full support and backing of my immediate family (husband and

adult children), but hubby would say things like, " Just ignore her " ,

" Don't let her get to you! " , " Will you just forget about it! " , " Move

on " . I'm sure you know the rhetoric. I hated " dumping " on my children,

but I often couldn't hold back. My only sibling, a brother three years

younger, who lives 3000 miles away, is also BPD (I suspect) and

alcoholic, just like mother. We've never been close over the years, and

he refused to even talk to me when things were very difficult with

mother during the late 90s. Dad, who lives with my brother, basically

didn't want to listen to me wail, so the topic was off-limits, more or

less. Friends got sick of me crying in my beer (couldn't blame them).

That was the sum total of my support system. No one had any answers,

and I was sinking in the quicksand. I didn't know about BPD or this

list.

No one had any answers, not my children, or friends, or even hubby. I

was encouraged to help her as best I could, because I'd live to regret

it after she was gone, if I didn't. I thought I was the only person

with this problem, and I couldn't understand why. No one really knew

mother the way I did, except my father and brother, and they weren't

there for me when the going got tough.

In 1999 things culminated in a blowup, followed by a divorce. I

floundered for 1.5 years afterwards, trying to figure out why, why,

why. Since then, I've done a lot of healing. It's taken a long time,

but the pieces of the puzzle are falling together very nicely.

Holding on to hell seems better than risking the unknown. Mother

dragged me into hell, but I got up, dusted myself off, and began the

long climb out. She's still way down there imprisoned in her own

Self-made hell, but I'm no longer there by her side. Life is grand

without her.

SmileS!

Carol

Doug wrote:

> were you able

> to get support from other family members at the time? It seems to

> make an enormous difference.

[Guest guest]

Hi Doug!

It's so frustrating, isn't it?

I had the full support and backing of my immediate family (husband and

adult children), but hubby would say things like, " Just ignore her " ,

" Don't let her get to you! " , " Will you just forget about it! " , " Move

on " . I'm sure you know the rhetoric. I hated " dumping " on my children,

but I often couldn't hold back. My only sibling, a brother three years

younger, who lives 3000 miles away, is also BPD (I suspect) and

alcoholic, just like mother. We've never been close over the years, and

he refused to even talk to me when things were very difficult with

mother during the late 90s. Dad, who lives with my brother, basically

didn't want to listen to me wail, so the topic was off-limits, more or

less. Friends got sick of me crying in my beer (couldn't blame them).

That was the sum total of my support system. No one had any answers,

and I was sinking in the quicksand. I didn't know about BPD or this

list.

No one had any answers, not my children, or friends, or even hubby. I

was encouraged to help her as best I could, because I'd live to regret

it after she was gone, if I didn't. I thought I was the only person

with this problem, and I couldn't understand why. No one really knew

mother the way I did, except my father and brother, and they weren't

there for me when the going got tough.

In 1999 things culminated in a blowup, followed by a divorce. I

floundered for 1.5 years afterwards, trying to figure out why, why,

why. Since then, I've done a lot of healing. It's taken a long time,

but the pieces of the puzzle are falling together very nicely.

Holding on to hell seems better than risking the unknown. Mother

dragged me into hell, but I got up, dusted myself off, and began the

long climb out. She's still way down there imprisoned in her own

Self-made hell, but I'm no longer there by her side. Life is grand

without her.

SmileS!

Carol

Doug wrote:

> were you able

> to get support from other family members at the time? It seems to

> make an enormous difference.