[Guest guest]

I agree with what you said and how you said it. I am passing on just

such sentiments to the doctor and his wife. She tells me that

sometimes that is enough for her to make it through another day, to

know that someone is being supportive. They are but just 2 players in

the larger scheme which is this whole mess of untreated, undertreated

pain and the hoops one must jump through to get it.

So now that there is help I must face losing it? That is not right.

When I spoke earlier of people not knowing what they're in for- I

meet people offline from time to time, one girl I introduced to these

support groups. Her new husband is an anesthesist technician (sp?)

and she had no trouble from the beginning getting treatment for her

pain. However, they have her on Morphine injections, and I wonder how

long that will last until she will require medicine in a bottle or if

she realizes what other people must go through to get help. That is

in no way putting her or anyone down, it's just the way things are. I

hope she doesn't have to go through what I have or other people do

because nobody should.

> Think about it--we are a minority group and we deserve

> to be heard. We did not choose this, yet we can be

> discriminated against. People do not understand the

> plight of the chonically pained. If they walked in our

> shoes for even a short time, there would be national

> legislation like you would not believe. I really think

> this has the potential of a civil rights movement. I

> know what my sis and cousin go thru--I am aware at any

> rate--I don't think I can truly know--with their RA.

> They need all the support and help they can get.

>

> who would advocate black armbands

>

> =====

> faroe and the springfield crew

>

>

> what part of our history's reinvented and under rug swept?

> what part of your memory is selective and tends to forget?

> .......Alanis ette

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi & ,

I know this message is for and I haven't met you or -

hello, but I just wanted to say that I have felt this way a lot and

still do quite often.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

> -- who would I have been if I had truly been loved?

> What would I be if someone had cared enough to give me

> self esteem?

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

I started feeling that way when I was about 30-35 I guess- . It was

from working in offices where I met people from what seemed to me to

be from a different " species " - people I had never known existed. And

I began to realize that I couldn't be who I wanted to be without

gaining those qualities somehow.

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

I can't quite put my

> finger on that I don't have

QQQQQQQQQQQ>

I know the can't put my finger on it feeling too. I'm 41 now, my

fingering started at 25- for me now, I call it people who are

comfortable in their own skin- they have a grace and a serenity and a

maturity perhaps.

For me, I think I have always felt that I had to earn love. And if

the love came free- I didn't want it. Actually, if the love came at

all, I didn't want it. It's like, as soon as someone loves me- I

don't want it anymore. I really want to change that. I feel it

changing... but I'm not there yet.

And I have no idea what that means.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/03 3:04:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

hnjstaff@... writes:

Hey ,

I know exactly what you mean when you say you were an object to your nada. I

feel the same way about my relationship to my mom. I was an object, destined

to make her look good, make her feel good about herself. A tool to help her

fill out that terrible painful void inside herself.

I wasnt me, a person, myself someone with needs, desires, abilities and

qualities away from my mom.

Warm regards

Malene

> I think this is from growing up with a narcissistic BP who saw me as an

> object to be used to build their self worth. That's funny, I finally see that

I

> was never a person to my nada. I was just an object. ~

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> This sounds " crazy, " but I have recently found myself looking at

> other women who seem to have a girlishness or softness or something

> that I can't quite put my finger on that I don't have and thinking

> to myself " someone loved them. " I know it's odd, but I feel like I

> can just tell. It's almost like they have a demeanor about them

> that lets me know they have always been loved and respected and

> expected love and respect from the world.

It doesn't sound crazy at all. In fact, I have always felt this

way. I have, for as long as I can remember, been drawn to friends

who were more feminine that I was ( I was a bit of a tomboy), and yet

I would have a love/hate relationship with them. I would want to be

around them, but I resented that their femininty came naturally for

them. The common denominator is that they all had close

relationships with a nurturing mother. I find that I have used them

as models, and sometimes I have used their moms as surrogates.

> Whereas, I have always felt like I had to fight for love and

> respect and by feeling that way, created situations where I really

> did.

I always felt that way too. I am also struggling with the deep-

seeded notion that I don't deserve that love and respect, despite how

hard I 'fight' for it.

Yet another situation where I thought I was alone - and I'm not.

Trish

[Guest guest]

,

Posting on this list helps me a lot. I don't know why. Maybe it's

the mere act of typing and getting the whole " thing " out

there..talking about the garbage and having people understand. For

example, after nada's death an old friend e-mailed me so concerned

that I was falling apart over nada's death. I wrote and told her I

was relieved that nada was gone..that nada was a terrible mother. I

am sure my friend was clueless as to how I could feel relief. Her

only basis for " how I should feel " was how she would feel if her

mother passed away. And she would feel bad because her mother was

normal.

But, I know that many on the list here could understand my sense of

relief.

The list gives me a chance to talk about my horrors with nada and

my triumphs since leaving nada 12 years ago. The list is a blessing.

Elyse

> >>Also, my husband's sister just had a baby. She's in her early

30's and I'm 43. She had a normal life, with normal parents, and

normal siblings. As much as I love to see the baby, and hold him...

it's after we go home that I

> completely fall apart. Because of this, I have been avoiding

seeing him lately... which means avoiding the whole family. I don't

know how long I can keep this up. I used to like family occasions

there, since they were SO

> different from my FOO occasions. They are not perfect but, these

people actually LIKE each other, and ME.So, I am actually depriving

myself of something by not going... yet, at the same time I feel less

devastated by not witnessing the life I should have had.

>

> This is so very hard for you to deal with. Your longing must be

overwhelming. I suppose your therapist is helping you to deal with

this.

>

> and , none of us are perfect. We just hope for a degree of

mormalcy, no viscious hatred coming at us like a war every day. I

just never knew when the next mine would go off.

>

> >>a clueygynaecologist is a great specialist to know.

> I've never heard of that specialty. What would the equivalent of

that be in

> the US?

>

>

> So sorry my typing isn't the greatest . I meant a cluey

Gynaecologist, meaning a good one.

>

>

> >>Oh, and this is " interesting, " she just recently mailed me a

bunch of newspaper clippings (on topics that I am interested in) with

a note saying, " I love you very much and I always will. Love, Mom. "

Simultaneously, her distortion campaign wages on. I have never

responded to any of her notes. I just hope that it is KILLING her

that I don't respond... that she is NOT getting what she wants. Yet,

at the same time, I am wretching over wanting one of my therapists to

call the witch up and tell her how the things she has done have

damaged me. Both therapists think this will just feed her ego, or

not have the effect I want it to have. (Although, one of them will

do it, if I really want her to). But, I really think I am not

looking for an effect... I am pretty sure I just want someone who the

witch thinks is an " authority " (i.e. a doctor-- she worships them) to

tell her that what she did was HORRIBLE. As I mentioned above, MY

telling her this is what started

> her overt viciousness toward me. So, I feel if someone ELSE told

her... I would at least feel a little better... knowing that she

won't die without this on her head. Every month, when I see that I'm

not pregnant, I re-live

> all the terror that woman and her son put me through, even though

I've been doing EMDR for a year now... and I actually have improved

significantly... the baby issue is just too hard for anyone to help

me with.

>

>

> I am sure it IS killing her with your lack of response. They can't

stand to lose control of you. Annoys the hell out of them, and I

believe that's why my exBPD both started and has continued with his

campaign of hatred against me. He has made his anger and cruelty and

abuse into MY anger cruelty and abuse!!! Plus I had affairs

apparently continuously throughout the marriage. Funny thing that. I

was a virgin when I met him at 18, and had one partner the entire

marriage!!!!!

>

> My exBPD is always sending the kids newspaper clippings through the

mail. I think it is so I see the envelope is from him, and he is able

to invade my home that way, considering I had to get a court order to

stop him from ringing the home phone. The kids usually do not open

them any more. ha ha

>

>

> >>What do you think about having someone talk to the old bat, on my

behalf? Is that a gigantic no-no? It would only be

an " informational " thing... they would not delve into her evil

personality. They would just tell her how the physical abuse has

affected my body, and hence, my life. We'd leave the emotional part

out of it... since the woman has no emotions. I know... just writing

this down... it's seems futile, and so stupid. She should just be on

death row... with the other murderers.

>

> In my experience this just prolongs the agony, gives them more

stuff to disort and manipulate, more ammunition to use against you.

Your Nada can share the adjoining cell to my exBPD on death row!

Other people on this list can probably tell you what their experience

with this has been. My exBPD spoke to his nada just before she died,

and told her how nasty and hateful she was to him (and me) and her

grandchildren. She looked like death at him. She had a brain tumour

and was not able to speak, but she could hate with her eyes. It was

so scarey to see. You see that sort of thing in movies, and yet I saw

her and felt her viscious hate with her eyes.

>

> >>And, what do you think of her note? " ... and I always will. "

Isn't that a tad bizarre to say to your CHILD? WHY would a mother

ever say to their child I ALWAYS will love you? WHAT is that

supposed to mean? Is she DYING?

> Isn't that what 16 year olds say to each other? Is this just part

of her sick incestuousness showing up again? Is she saying I

don't " deserve " it, but she will ANYWAY? I'm sure SHE doesn't even

know what it means. I'm sure SHE still thinks she's the best person

on earth.

>

>

> My exbPD always said no one would love me the way he did, and said

he would always love me, told the kids to tell me the same, and was

still doing the nastiest most despicable things to get his revenge on

me at the same time. How dare I destroy his perfect family!!!!???

>

>

> >>Yeah, me too. I wonder how (and why) I am still alive.

>

> I think of my great auntie, a wonderful lady who I really only got

to know well in her later years as she lived in Europe. She sisn't

have children, and had a wonderful full life, and a husband who

adored her. My mum said she thought she'd had a miscarriage when she

was in her twenties, but she never spoke of it. We became her family,

like her grandchildren. Maybe you could spend time with this little

nephew when he is out of the baby phase, look after him over night

with your husband. Is adoption out of the question where you live.

There are age limits here, though I guess you may have thought of

that already.

>

> I have several friends who have never married though they would

have liked to. I see them now living a full life. I have children,

and am new to being single, and am trying to create a life for

myself. I don't feel I am very good at it yet, and work full time

which keeps me very tired!

>

> I don't think it's silly to get it all out. You can vent here, and

you are with those who fully understand, so there's no need for

embarrassment telling it how it really is.

>

> Take care

>

> Ellie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Mobile

> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone

mobile.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear :

I have been thinking and praying for . I am so glad to hear he is ok.

I did not want to seem nosy, but have been wondering and hoping you let us

know. Hugs to all, Josie

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for asking about .

He had a grumbling appendix, eventually stopped vomiting and now is well on the

road to recovery.

.x

Hi, ,

I hope is feeling better. I will be thinking of both of you and

praying it is not his appendix. Take care and let us know how he is doing.

Big bear hugs to you and ,

Piper

[Guest guest]

Janet,

Welcome,

As I said in a previous post, you can go to the Alzheimers Assoc. in

your area and they serve dementia. You can also put Area on Aging in

the search, they will also be helpful. And it sounds like it is most

important to find an attorney and get some legal help. The book called

" The 36 hour day " is good and has good help. I ordered it right from

the Alzheimers Book store and with my credit card, they shipped it to me

in short order.

Hope this helps.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan:

Welcome to the group. Your husband sounds like my dad. He could also walk

withouth falling by paying attention, which he didn't do consistently. It must

be really difficult not having more help, I am sorry. I hope that the social

worker's suggestions work. We did not find out about LBD until the last

month and a half of my dad's life, my mom took care of him by herself until

then.

They had live in help for a couple of days, but my dad spent most of that

time in the hospital, being " stabilized " with his medications. We are here to

give you all the support we can. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Hugs,

Josie

[Guest guest]

Thanks for writing this , I feel like I know more about you. Your job

sounds interesting and you must meet some of the UK's more popular

personalities, no?

Please let us know how your dad is doing.

Sending you and yours strength

Courage

>

>

> Dear

> What are you doing in Evesham for the BBC?

> Nevermind, I thought your comments about the critical necessity of

>'sharing' the LBD heartbreak with others is a wonderful reminder that we

are

>all in this together.

> I have thought about backing out from the group on several occasions -

>after all, my dad died nearly a year ago now - but I just can't walk away.

>If there is any chance that anything I write might be even remotely helpful

>to others then I have to stay!

> I could not have survived without the genuine love, support and honesty

>here. This group is so precious.

> Yes, we should meet up. Let's think about dates.

> Sally

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, we get UK News at 6:00 pm every weeknight on PBS here in Toronto and

I especially tuned in during the Iraqi war. I'm usually not home on time to

catch it anymore. I must also admit that I love to hear accents and was

entertained when the female lead reporter would say " Pentagin " instead of

the North American " Pentagon " - every so silly of me but hey, I liked it. We

also get a program in the late evening called " Out of Ireland " which I also

enjoy watching when I'm not dragging my butt to bed.

COurage

>>

>>

>> Dear

>> What are you doing in Evesham for the BBC?

>> Nevermind, I thought your comments about the critical necessity of

>> 'sharing' the LBD heartbreak with others is a wonderful reminder

>that we are

>> all in this together.

>> I have thought about backing out from the group on several

>occasions -

>> after all, my dad died nearly a year ago now - but I just can't

>walk away.

>> If there is any chance that anything I write might be even remotely

>helpful

>> to others then I have to stay!

>> I could not have survived without the genuine love, support and

>honesty

>> here. This group is so precious.

>> Yes, we should meet up. Let's think about dates.

>> Sally

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Sally, sending love to you on the first anniversary of Colin's passing.

.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Welcome to the group . Glad you found us.

As, like me, you are a UK contact I immediately get 'nosey' and want to know

where you are geographically, and who/how did you get a diagnosis of LBD?

How's the care package re support/NHS/medication?

My dad died 21st Oct last year and I have to say we got some good and much

lousy help. The so called 'experts' made some howling mistakes - it was all

rather hit and miss. Do you have a neurologist or specialist geriatrician?

Sadly I'm no help as regards the medical application of dope. I thought of it

for my dad especially when the rigidity and stiffness curtailed his mobility so

badly.

My dad did well on Exelon (Rivastigmine) but once the cocktail of Seroquel

(Quetiapine) and Levadopa was introduced all hell broke loose. In the end my dad

spat them all out and refused to take anything. They tried sedating him with

Ativan (epam) - that was a huge mistake and increased his suffering

profoundly. I would argue to steer clear of all benzodiazepam drugs.

Hard to say how long my dad had LBD - maybe 7, 8 or 9 years. He certainly

deteriorated after aneasthesia.

He just about managed to live independently until the final 6 months when he

declined VERY rapidly.

Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job!

Keep smiling!!

Sally (Tonbridge, Kent)

[Guest guest]

Dear nne,

I appreciate your feedback. I recognize that I am not being good to myself by

attaching to my story that he should love me because I decided that it is good

for me and for him, just because of my strong feelings. But, eventhough I am

aware that it is not my job to choose for him who he should love, I feel like a

helpless little child who wants this story to be true when it cannot be. And

that is what hurts, that attachment that it is so hard to let go of.

I do not know how to arrive to a point that I can easily accept and feel OK if

somebody that my heart opens to and wants to love so deeply, cannot feel the

same way. I feel like I am capable of loving so deeply and being faithful to

that person, give all the support in life to grow together. My minds wonders

why can it not be possible to have that in return from him? It hurts and I hate

it, and it depresses me. But, it is my path to love myself entirely with all of

this pain. It is to heavy on me. I do the work, and I am aware that it is not

my business who he chooses or what he feels. It has been my fantasy in my own

mind that that person should be me because I have give him all my heart.

My friends can all easily say to drop him, not to care for him, to detach, yeah!

it is easy to say when your heart is not involved. But, it is difficult for me

not to care about him. Well, my lesson is to love me enough to have the courage

to let go of my fantasies that have only produced pain for me in a deep level.

It is quite comforting to hear your feedback and experience. Thank you again.

Love,

--

--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:06:26

To: Loving-what-is

Cc:

Dear ,

When I was in a relationship with a man that was called *not good for

me* by my other friends I had to listen. What were they saying that I

defended against. I sure didn't want to hear those words *He's not

good for you*! " But I love him " I yelled back! I didn't want to see

that they were right!

If he didn't call when I thought he *should* it meant that he didn't

love me enough. So I noticed when I believed that he didn't love me

enough I felt like shit...tormenting myself, doubting that my love was

good enough, starting to hate him.(Lots of pain and stress) He really

wasn't good for me! I wasn't good for me! Because of what I did to

myself when I attached meaning to how he was behaving.

Sending you love,

nne

> Dear Helen,

> Thank you so much for posting those words from . It

> surely is a reminder for me too. There is war on my mind

> constantly these days that causes me to feel split in choices

> I need to make. I do not love the thought of letting go of

> a relationship eventhough all my friends think it is the best

> for me. Some days my mind thinks Yes, I should, other days it

> thinks, no, I shouldn't. And it causes me so much pain.

> It is hard for me to know the true choice in my life.

> Any suggestions?

> Thank you.

> --

>

> --------- Original Message ---------

> DATE: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:00:28

> From: " Helen Triggs " <helen@h...>

> To: <Loving-what-is >

> Cc:

>

> Dear All

> I just came across some notes I took when was in Amsterdam

this summer - this is what I heard (Not necessarily what she said! I

know I am not necessarily an accurate recorder - I tried to type

verbatim a section

of the tape from the School as wanted to check on something she

said - they didn't know where it was so I had to type a lot - and

discovered that even typing 'verbatim' my mind is so quick to correct

the grammar, change it slightly - AND I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT!)

>

> So for what it's worth, this is what I think I heard ....

> The heart mind - when the mind begins to understand itself, there is

a great unveiling - Mind loves it. It's a seeker. When it finds

answers for itself, it begins to listen and the war with Self ends and

the result is self love.

>

> The creative wild child - the I know mind - doesn't stop, in the

illusion.

>

> When questioned, the mind doesn't believe everything it thinks. End

of War.

>

> When you love everything you think, there's no war.

>

> Mind loves to be right.

> Ask mind questions and wait for heart to answer.

>

> Just some things I needed to hear again!

> Love

> Helen

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Well, your story is my story. I see you as a woman with a lot of love

to give who has great courage. Sweetheart, just love yourself.

nne

> > Dear Helen,

> > Thank you so much for posting those words from . It

> > surely is a reminder for me too. There is war on my mind

> > constantly these days that causes me to feel split in choices

> > I need to make. I do not love the thought of letting go of

> > a relationship eventhough all my friends think it is the best

> > for me. Some days my mind thinks Yes, I should, other days it

> > thinks, no, I shouldn't. And it causes me so much pain.

> > It is hard for me to know the true choice in my life.

> > Any suggestions?

> > Thank you.

> > --

> >

> > --------- Original Message ---------

> > DATE: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:00:28

> > From: " Helen Triggs " <helen@h...>

> > To: <Loving-what-is >

> > Cc:

> >

> > Dear All

> > I just came across some notes I took when was in Amsterdam

> this summer - this is what I heard (Not necessarily what she said! I

> know I am not necessarily an accurate recorder - I tried to type

> verbatim a section

> of the tape from the School as wanted to check on something she

> said - they didn't know where it was so I had to type a lot - and

> discovered that even typing 'verbatim' my mind is so quick to correct

> the grammar, change it slightly - AND I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT!)

> >

> > So for what it's worth, this is what I think I heard ....

> > The heart mind - when the mind begins to understand itself, there is

> a great unveiling - Mind loves it. It's a seeker. When it finds

> answers for itself, it begins to listen and the war with Self ends and

> the result is self love.

> >

> > The creative wild child - the I know mind - doesn't stop, in the

> illusion.

> >

> > When questioned, the mind doesn't believe everything it thinks. End

> of War.

> >

> > When you love everything you think, there's no war.

> >

> > Mind loves to be right.

> > Ask mind questions and wait for heart to answer.

> >

> > Just some things I needed to hear again!

> > Love

> > Helen

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/2003 2:45:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, gaat@...

writes:

Interesting thing here is that I've tried to find a word that

doesn't belong to the subject matter and sometimes she'll call me on it.

Courage and :

The last few weeks of my dad's life he started loosing his speech. Both the

strength of his voice and the words. Sometimes he tried to say something that

he thought was important, and we tried to gess the word, and he would very

emphatically say no when it was wrong. it was the connection from the brain to

the mouth that was faulty, he knew what he wanted to say, although it could be

from one of his numerous delusions. Josie

[Guest guest]

Hi, Steve. Welcome to The Work. I love how you jumped into it so

easily and completely.

On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 08:36:52PM +1100, steve nicholls wrote:

> I joined the group a few days ago and have enjoyed following some of the

> conversations, so I thought I would like to quickly introduce myself and

> share a little bit of my 'work'

> ...

> My favourite word at the moment is 'notice'. Sometimes I notice even

> when I am in the middle of the work I am still in my story - 'mind' is

> still working away in the background.

Yes, that's my experience also.

> If I allow them, the questions, direct me towards noticing my story

> and to just observing it.

Yes.

> Mind still wants to rush in and change it, make it better, sort it

> out for me, find 'the answer' and change the story, even hate my

> story.

Yes.

> Just recently I've been looking at some of the thoughts below and

> wondered if anyone else had been around this one and maybe add to my

> list [or maybe there's a turnaround i haven't yet found]

>

> My thinking is wrong

....when I think my thinking is wrong, yes it is.

My thinking is confused. Can I meet it with compassion?

> I should stop attatching to my thoughts

.... especially the thought that I should stop attaching to my

thoughts.

> If only could sort out my thinking then things would be fine

Really? Can you absolutely know that's true?

> I need to change

In my experience, trying to change myself is hopeless! I've been

trying to change myself with little or no success now for 43 years.

Whew! What a relief to give it up! (and to notice that I'm trying

again, and give it up yet again... and again... and again...)

> I need to get rid of my limiting beliefs

Yes, especially the limiting belief that I have limiting beliefs. But

I noticed, after pointed it out to me in Loving What Is (the

book) and the tapes I've listened to, that I've never been able to

" get rid " of a belief -- they come and go as they please, outside my

control. The best I can do is to meet them with compassion and

understanding, befriending them and recognizing that they only have

the power over me that I give them. If I don't buy into a belief, it's

just a thought floating through. It only seems to becomes painful when

I attach to it and either cling to it seriously or try to " get rid " of

it.

> If only I cold do the work properly, then things would be fine

" I can't do The Work properly. " Can you really know that that's true?

" ...then things would be fine. " Can you really know that *that's* true?

> I should stop making these same mistakes

I am willing to keep making these same mistakes. I might as well, here

they come.

I look forward to to continuing to make these same mistakes. If I do,

and it hurts, they'll put me back into The Work so I can undo the

beliefs that drive them.

> I really need to sort out my thinking

....especially the belief that I really need to sort out my thinking.

> My thinking is wrong

>

> Is this true? Yes

>

> Can I absolutely know it's true? No

>

> How do I react when I think this thought?

>

> I see the whole of my life as a series of wrong thinking. I think about

> how things could have been some much better if only I could have been a

> bit more sorted out at the time. I feel like there is a big weight

> pressing down on me, like I'm walking uphill, through sludge. I know

> this is a familiar feeling and I hate it. I feel tired, frustrated and

> helpless. I have to find the answer I think I have to sort this out

> now. I think of how I have to get this right from now on, I feel a bit

> frightened at the thought of it

So, can you see a reason to let go of this thought that " My thinking

is wrong " ? (But don't try to let it go, just notice whether you see a

reason to.)

Can you see a peaceful reason to keep the thought that " My thinking is

wrong? "

> Who would you be without that thought

> Very different. A lot lighter.

Perhaps a friend to your thinking, rather than its judge?

> Turnarounds

>

> My thinking is right - true - it has only ever been right, only ever

> the best it could be, only ever an invitation to go inside, only ever me

> trying to make sense of my world as best i can.

Yes.

> Nothing is wrong - true - there are no mistakes. Even my thinking is

> 'God standing in front of me'. Even my own confusion is a gift.

Yes!

>

> Would love some feedback on this.

I love what you did with your Work.

I've gone back a re-read the book a couple of times, and found new

stuff I didn't notice before each time. I'd encourage you to go ahead

and get yourself a copy of the book. It's a great resource.

Also, there are lots of tapes available that contain material that's

not in the book. Even the audiobook version of the the book contains

different dialogs from the ones recorded in the paper book (if I

remember correctly). You can order tapes from the website:

http://www.thework.org.

There are also other resources available at the website -- the Judge

Your Neighbor worksheet, audio clips of people doing the work, contact

information for Inquiry Circles, and so forth. You can also find some

useful materials in the Files section of this Yahoo Group

(http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Loving-what-is/files/) -- more

worksheets in various formats, lists of questions for inquiry,

articles, workshop schedules, etc.

Welcome, Steve. I look forward to your participation here. Thank you

for joining us.

Tom

[Guest guest]

dear steve,

welcome! thanks for writing. what you experience seems to be what i have

going on with my wild puppy (mind) too. i like to think that my ego is

fighting for its survival. it will bring me all the ideas and facts related

to the subject in order to convince me. " lets leave things the way they are.

... its working "

anyway, i thought i would answer your letter because i got the impression

that you may have never bought the book. in the book katie explains that you

should do the work on paper. (at least in the beginning or until the work

begins to work within you automatically) she talks about how the mind is too

fast to capture, and that if you write down your work the thought-process

will slow down, and you can much easier complete your work.

i thought i share this information with you because it has helped me a lot

in doing the work myself.

love,

andrea

--

I joined the group a few days ago and have enjoyed following some of the

conversations, so I thought I would like to quickly introduce myself and

share a little bit of my 'work'

I discovered the work a little while ago now, browsing through my local

bookstore. I skimmed 'loving what is', noted the questions and walked

away not buying the book. For the rest of that day I walked around

asking the four questions. Wow, I was bowled over.

My favourite word at the moment is 'notice'. Sometimes I notice even

when I am in the middle of the work I am still in my story - 'mind' is

still working away in the background. If I allow them, the questions,

direct me towards noticing my story and to just observing it. Mind

still wants to rush in and change it, make it better, sort it out for

me, find 'the answer' and change the story, even hate my story. Just

recently I've been looking at some of the thoughts below and wondered if

anyone else had been around this one and maybe add to my list [or maybe

there's a turnaround i haven't yet found]

My thinking is wrong

I should stop attatching to my thoughts

If only could sort out my thinking then things would be fine

I need to change

I need to get rid of my limiting beliefs

If only I cold do the work properly, then things would be fine

I should stop making these same mistakes

I really need to sort out my thinking

My thinking is wrong

Is this true? Yes

Can I absolutely know it's true? No

How do I react when I think this thought?

I see the whole of my life as a series of wrong thinking. I think about

how things could have been some much better if only I could have been a

bit more sorted out at the time. I feel like there is a big weight

pressing down on me, like I'm walking uphill, through sludge. I know

this is a familiar feeling and I hate it. I feel tired, frustrated and

helpless. I have to find the answer I think I have to sort this out

now. I think of how I have to get this right from now on, I feel a bit

frightened at the thought of it

Who would you be without that thought

Very different. A lot lighter.

Turnarounds

My thinking is right - true - it has only ever been right, only ever

the best it could be, only ever an invitation to go inside, only ever me

trying to make sense of my world as best i can.

Nothing is wrong - true - there are no mistakes. Even my thinking is

'God standing in front of me'. Even my own confusion is a gift.

Would love some feedback on this.

Thanks

Steve N

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I would like to add that strongly suggests that anyone new to the Work

avoid the temptation to write about yourself. When you start out by judging

yourself, according to : " your answers come with a motive and with

solutions that haven't worked. Judging someone else, then inquiring and

turning it around, is the direct path to understanding. " (LWI page 10).

Also, I found another turnaround to " My thinking is wrong. "

My thinking is neither right nor wrong; it's just what is.

says thoughts aren't personal.

They come and go like breath. The mind either attaches to or questions them.

And even the mind is innocent. It is only doing its job - to prove that it's

right.

Who would you be without the thought I am the thinker?

Welcome to the group.

[Guest guest]

On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 06:58:11AM +1100, steve nicholls wrote:

>

> I realise I may have only shared half a story here. I did go back and

> buy the book (a now very dog-eared copy)

Hi, Steve. Thanks for letting us know. I had a good laugh over all

the advice we were giving you. Pay no attention to the peanut gallery!

You're doing fine.

Tom

[Guest guest]

, you do it because you love your mom and your dad. You can't change a

damn thing, yet day after day, you (and the rest of us here) do the best

that we can to make what they have left, better for them. It isn't about

failing to help them, it is about trying to help them (even when we can't).

It is giving with all your heart, because you aren't able to do any less, it

is going on when there is no hope and there is no turning back because we

are all they have. Even when they drive us crazy, when the disease advances

and causes them pain and suffering, we are there for them, however we can

be, because WE ARE THERE FOR THEM.

It is not about them knowing, or God knowing, it is about what is inside of

us, and you and me and all the rest do what we have to do because there is

no choice. We are their advocates, and the ones that they trust the most.

They can get angry and cry, and show how bad the " beast " is affecting them,

they can let their guard down around us instead of putting on a " show " , at

least for a little while, and for those in more advanced stages, they depend

on us like no other.

You are doing the best that you can. You are doing a great job. Please

don't be so hard on yourself. Yes, your dad will likely end up in a nursing

home, but you can say that if it weren't for you he would end up there much

sooner...you can't stop them from dying either. And neither of those things

are your fault. It is just the way life goes. You have to remember that

they had a life, and you are still living yours. There must be time for

. There must be time for .

I said it twice so it will sink in. If there is not time for you, then you

will have failed them because without taking care of you first, you will

have nothing left to take care of them.

Chin up, and there is nothing you have done to be forgiven for. We are all

here to help each other. I hope I have helped you.

Kath in Toronto

> Hello.

>

> Been to look after my dad this weekend. Oh crap.

> Well he's better than I thought he was going to be but not good enough to

be

> home on his own. I had to put him to bed last night or he'd still be

sitting

> on the sofa looking blank. He was better today but he spilled some water

in

> the kitchen and fell on his bum trying to clear it up. And then he tripped

> over in the hall and covered me in tea. I took him back to the hospital

> tonight. I think one of his cats may have left home. Didn't see it all

> weekend. The other is ok though. The lady next door is feeding them. I

guess

> Barney puss got fed up with not having people around.

> I cried half the way there on Friday night. I tried not to cry when I left

> mum crippled in her bed at the nursing home. I tried not to cry when I

left

> the one remaining cat in the house (she looked so lonely), I tried not to

> cry when I left dad at the hospital, and I cried half the way back home

> again. Now I'm here and the only thing I can't do is have a good cry. Oh

and

> sleep, I won't be able to sleep either.

> The missus told me off for not looking after the cats well enough when I

got

> home. She wasn't too thrilled about the can of coke that exploded in the

> back of the car either. And I think I'm in the dog house 'cos I want to go

> away next weekend for a bit of ' time'.

> What is it all for? That's what I want to know. Why am I bothering? Why am

I

> struggling to keep dad out of a nursing home when I know without question

> that I won't suceed. Why am I trying to help set up a charity over here?

> Nothing I can do can actually save anyone. Or even get them to live a

little

> longer. Do I think God will be impressed or something? When I die and go

to

> heaven he's going to say " james you useless little shit. You failed to

help

> your parents, you failed to look after your girlfriend and you even

failed

> the bloody cat. now piss off. i don't want you here. "

>

> i'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

>

>

> Welcome to LBDcaregivers.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

I forgot to mention in my post that my dad says that he now can

hardly see anything at all. I think that also is part of the

problem.

I am definitely going to suggest someone feed him given how he is

spilling food all over himself and given the fact that he cannot see

clearly.

This is so horrible...

Abby

[Guest guest]

Yes, welcome to our cozy little group. We hope to make you feel at

home. I weighed your weight, had the same 2 maladies - and am now so

happy and healthy. Only issues I have are totally unrelated to weight,

mostly to age and what is really expected as we " mature. " You'll find

lots of answers, even more opinions, but we all agree this is the best

thing we've ever done for ourselves ( & /or our families).

Bobbe in Paso Robles. 5th grade thru college = 152 lb.

5/98 retired at 285 lbs. & size 24/3X. 3/12/03 DS from 268 lbs. &

size 22/24 down to 137 & 12/14. Today - 153.5 lbs. Will settle for

permanent 148.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am so sorry to hear how sick Tracilyn is and I am hoping for a speedy

recovery. You family is in my thoughts and prayers.

Danni

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[Guest guest]

Welcome Harry

Sorry you found us because of stills but glad you did also. I am 5

years younger then you .read a lot here as there is great info and lots

of thing to think about and ask your doc about. One thing I also say to

any one with this is look into concealing for your self and every one

that lives in your home as it can and some times dose change the way we

live. It can help you and others understand how things change and how to

understand it. I know I needed it and did not do it tell later as I was

against it tell forced to get help and after that I also found it made a

world of deference in my life .

I do not work any more and have not for over 6 years now. there have

been many changes in my life from what I do and how to even being

married then divorced and now married again all and much more from the

time I came down with stills to this day again welcome and to all the

other new people I did not say it to welcome also

Marty the redneck dragon fighter that is just dragon poop right now as

the dragon toke a big old bit out of me again

Dear Group,

I am a 53 year old male with recently diagnosed Stills Disease. I just

finished 2 hospitalizations and the diagnosis was made the second time

around. The first hospitalization included 8 days in the ICU with

meningo-encephalitis of unknown origin.

I am currently on a tapering steroid dose and most of my symptoms have

disappeared except for those related to anemia.

I hope to return to work in December on a gradual basis.

I look forward to sharing my experiences, feelings, and any pertinent

medical information with all.

Sincerely,

Harry S.. Cyclurahotmail (DOT) <mailto:Cyclura%40hotmail.com> com

[Guest guest]

Harry,

Welcome to the group. I am glad to hear you are doing better and a diagnosis

was made.

Danni

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tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free

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