Re: Die off? (or appropriate?)

[Guest guest]

Hey Sheri -

The pouring off of the milk may be considered a study

in physics! LOL. This may be more than difficulty of

impulse control. This may be a developmentally

appropriate milestone. The same with all the dumping.

That just might be a GREAT thing. One thing about

when these kids start " waking up " ... they start doing

all the things they should have been doing during

infancy, and they may revisit some of these behaviors.

On the downside, the tendency may be a little worse

for you (the walking nightmare) because at this point,

they can physically do more, and don't have all of

that brain functioning properly to limit themselves.

As that brain starts waking up more (if it won't work

immediatelyk, which it might)... the typical

discipline techniques starting now may be necessary

.... not punishment, of course, but having her " help "

you clean them back up. At least then, she can dump

and put back, but she might not be " there " yet where

she can do this consistently. She is doing what she

should have (may have) done at just over a year old.

Most kids have already started sliding back by this

time whether we noticed or not and may have to revisit

some of those developmental milestones. Even calling

you only when she's angry is the first part of infant

development in connecting with us... they initially

seek us out for comfort when something's wrong before

they start seeking us out just for the joy.

The tantrums will be out of proportion sometimes, but

you may want to consider the possibility that soy is a

trigger here. My child has big-time rages w/soy, but

it sneaks up. One way to tell is if her pupils seem

just slightly dilated... not so much that anyone but a

mom would be able to tell... and if you've not seen

them normal then maybe you wouldn't be able to tell,

either. You can take her outside into bright light

and if they don't go to pinpoints, you may have a soy

problem. (Yes, neurological irritation could also be

it but this test has worked for others.) If you

decide to try removing soy (I highly recommend it),

you should allow 5 days to see the results (very

consistent for us). If you allow 7-10 days to pass

and decide to retest it, you need to allow another 5

days ON the soy to see if tantrums and rages increase

again - although in smaller amounts it can take a week

or two - not w/soy milk though. Soy is a difficult

protein to digest just like milk, and at the very

least, 25% of dairy intolerance crosses over to soy

intolerance, but I really think that is higher. If

you want immediate improvement in your child's

behavior, pull out that soy. Worry about protein

later. It's worth it!

Sounds like your girl is doing awesome despite some

behaviors that will really start to level out. And if

you start contemplating some of these behaviors as

possibly developmentally appropriate, it may make this

period easier to adjust to. It's going to be a

while before she can control that impulse to explore

and experience her environment thru new eyes.

HTH-

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

>

> My daughter started Valtrex two weeks ago since day

> 10 I have seen behavior changes that are very

> different from those from yeast die off. When she

> had die off from yeast she was spinning, banging her

> head and digging at her skin and itching, her

> behavior changes this die off seems to be more along

> the lines of impulse control. For instance she

> spilled her soy milk off her cereal and onto the

> floor to watch it fall. (I have carpet in my dining

> room eeks) today she dumped over the cabinet int he

> bathroom, she opened her closet and pulled down all

> of her clothes, she dumped all the toys from the

> bins in my son's room, this girl has been a walking

> nightmare. But she has began calling for me and

> using Mama Mama but only when she is mad but it has

> been consistent. LOL Die off is killing

> me......ROFL I know that this too shall pass but

> how quickly? Sheri

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You know I had though about that. does seem to be doing more and more

and getting into EVERYTHING!!! and now she is not happy to just feel things she

wants to explore them. She will dumb out everything, roll in it, put her feet

in or on things, She is climbing like a monkey, playing in food the list goes on

and on on. I know it may be a good sign and being 5 years old but

developmentally only 2 she doesn't have that far to regress too LOL so maybe

this time will go quickly. One can hope....

As for the pupils. I will have to check that one out. Keep in mind that my

daughter not only has autism but she has albinism and she is adopted and lived

in an institution for the first 4 years of her life. Talk about 3 big strikes

but she is progressing all the time.

When I say that the first six months with her home were the hardest in my life

I am not kidding. She was scared of everything and she screamed almost

non-stop, if she wasn't screaming she was rocking or staring at her hand. Today

she is a very happy girl in comparison. She only has fits when she doesn't want

to do something like go inside. Who would have thought that the little girl who

was scared to go outside would be crying when she had to come inside.

Now tell me about the discipline that I should be starting with her... Sheri

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

Hey Sheri -

The pouring off of the milk may be considered a study

in physics! LOL. This may be more than difficulty of

impulse control. This may be a developmentally

appropriate milestone. The same with all the dumping.

That just might be a GREAT thing. One thing about

when these kids start " waking up " ... they start doing

all the things they should have been doing during

infancy, and they may revisit some of these behaviors.

On the downside, the tendency may be a little worse

for you (the walking nightmare) because at this point,

they can physically do more, and don't have all of

that brain functioning properly to limit themselves.

As that brain starts waking up more (if it won't work

immediatelyk, which it might)... the typical

discipline techniques starting now may be necessary

.... not punishment, of course, but having her " help "

you clean them back up. At least then, she can dump

and put back, but she might not be " there " yet where

she can do this consistently. She is doing what she

should have (may have) done at just over a year old.

Most kids have already started sliding back by this

time whether we noticed or not and may have to revisit

some of those developmental milestones. Even calling

you only when she's angry is the first part of infant

development in connecting with us... they initially

seek us out for comfort when something's wrong before

they start seeking us out just for the joy.

The tantrums will be out of proportion sometimes, but

you may want to consider the possibility that soy is a

trigger here. My child has big-time rages w/soy, but

it sneaks up. One way to tell is if her pupils seem

just slightly dilated... not so much that anyone but a

mom would be able to tell... and if you've not seen

them normal then maybe you wouldn't be able to tell,

either. You can take her outside into bright light

and if they don't go to pinpoints, you may have a soy

problem. (Yes, neurological irritation could also be

it but this test has worked for others.) If you

decide to try removing soy (I highly recommend it),

you should allow 5 days to see the results (very

consistent for us). If you allow 7-10 days to pass

and decide to retest it, you need to allow another 5

days ON the soy to see if tantrums and rages increase

again - although in smaller amounts it can take a week

or two - not w/soy milk though. Soy is a difficult

protein to digest just like milk, and at the very

least, 25% of dairy intolerance crosses over to soy

intolerance, but I really think that is higher. If

you want immediate improvement in your child's

behavior, pull out that soy. Worry about protein

later. It's worth it!

Sounds like your girl is doing awesome despite some

behaviors that will really start to level out. And if

you start contemplating some of these behaviors as

possibly developmentally appropriate, it may make this

period easier to adjust to. It's going to be a

while before she can control that impulse to explore

and experience her environment thru new eyes.

HTH-

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

>

> My daughter started Valtrex two weeks ago since day

> 10 I have seen behavior changes that are very

> different from those from yeast die off. When she

> had die off from yeast she was spinning, banging her

> head and digging at her skin and itching, her

> behavior changes this die off seems to be more along

> the lines of impulse control. For instance she

> spilled her soy milk off her cereal and onto the

> floor to watch it fall. (I have carpet in my dining

> room eeks) today she dumped over the cabinet int he

> bathroom, she opened her closet and pulled down all

> of her clothes, she dumped all the toys from the

> bins in my son's room, this girl has been a walking

> nightmare. But she has began calling for me and

> using Mama Mama but only when she is mad but it has

> been consistent. LOL Die off is killing

> me......ROFL I know that this too shall pass but

> how quickly? Sheri

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheri,

makes some good points, about soy protein and behaviours that many

kids have at some time or another.

My son dumps things and/or crumbles things in front of his eyes and throws

things when he has gluten (but he doesn't do it with enzymes with gluten).

For discipline, I've used " Happiest Toddler on the Block " and 1-2-3 Magic,

and they've been helpful with my twins. I also try to give them a lot of

choices and let them know what they can do (in place of what they cannot).

Kristy

Re: Die off? (or appropriate?)

Hey Sheri -

The pouring off of the milk may be considered a study

in physics! LOL. This may be more than difficulty of

impulse control. This may be a developmentally

appropriate milestone. The same with all the dumping.

That just might be a GREAT thing. One thing about

when these kids start " waking up " ... they start doing

all the things they should have been doing during

infancy, and they may revisit some of these behaviors.

On the downside, the tendency may be a little worse

for you (the walking nightmare) because at this point,

they can physically do more, and don't have all of

that brain functioning properly to limit themselves.

As that brain starts waking up more (if it won't work

immediatelyk, which it might)... the typical

discipline techniques starting now may be necessary

... not punishment, of course, but having her " help "

you clean them back up. At least then, she can dump

and put back, but she might not be " there " yet where

she can do this consistently. She is doing what she

should have (may have) done at just over a year old.

Most kids have already started sliding back by this

time whether we noticed or not and may have to revisit

some of those developmental milestones. Even calling

you only when she's angry is the first part of infant

development in connecting with us... they initially

seek us out for comfort when something's wrong before

they start seeking us out just for the joy.

The tantrums will be out of proportion sometimes, but

you may want to consider the possibility that soy is a

trigger here. My child has big-time rages w/soy, but

it sneaks up. One way to tell is if her pupils seem

just slightly dilated... not so much that anyone but a

mom would be able to tell... and if you've not seen

them normal then maybe you wouldn't be able to tell,

either. You can take her outside into bright light

and if they don't go to pinpoints, you may have a soy

problem. (Yes, neurological irritation could also be

it but this test has worked for others.) If you

decide to try removing soy (I highly recommend it),

you should allow 5 days to see the results (very

consistent for us). If you allow 7-10 days to pass

and decide to retest it, you need to allow another 5

days ON the soy to see if tantrums and rages increase

again - although in smaller amounts it can take a week

or two - not w/soy milk though. Soy is a difficult

protein to digest just like milk, and at the very

least, 25% of dairy intolerance crosses over to soy

intolerance, but I really think that is higher. If

you want immediate improvement in your child's

behavior, pull out that soy. Worry about protein

later. It's worth it!

Sounds like your girl is doing awesome despite some

behaviors that will really start to level out. And if

you start contemplating some of these behaviors as

possibly developmentally appropriate, it may make this

period easier to adjust to. It's going to be a

while before she can control that impulse to explore

and experience her environment thru new eyes.

HTH-

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

>

> My daughter started Valtrex two weeks ago since day

> 10 I have seen behavior changes that are very

> different from those from yeast die off. When she

> had die off from yeast she was spinning, banging her

> head and digging at her skin and itching, her

> behavior changes this die off seems to be more along

> the lines of impulse control. For instance she

> spilled her soy milk off her cereal and onto the

> floor to watch it fall. (I have carpet in my dining

> room eeks) today she dumped over the cabinet int he

> bathroom, she opened her closet and pulled down all

> of her clothes, she dumped all the toys from the

> bins in my son's room, this girl has been a walking

> nightmare. But she has began calling for me and

> using Mama Mama but only when she is mad but it has

> been consistent. LOL Die off is killing

> me......ROFL I know that this too shall pass but

> how quickly? Sheri

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheri -

(I mixed in comments in the text below:)

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

I know it may be a

> good sign and being 5 years old but developmentally

> only 2 she doesn't have that far to regress

> so maybe this time will go quickly. One can

> hope....

*** It can be shocking how fast! But a slow and steady

is good too. Even though you're starting back, it

doesn't seem to take the entire time it would take a

normally developing child to meet some of the

milestones (could, but doesn't seem to) - because they

have been learning and experiencing, but not fully of

course. Some parents have mentioned that when older

kids come out of 'that cloud', the parents started

discovering all these things that the kid already knew

and had absorbed, but had been unable to use or

communicate properly.

Keep in mind that my daughter not only has

> autism but she has albinism and she is adopted and

> lived in an institution for the first 4 years of her

> life. Talk about 3 big strikes but she is

> progressing all the time.

**** That is a lot to deal with! I know nothing of

albinism and it's impact on development. But I do

remember a geneticist saying that Downs patients

(referred to since isn't albinism a genetic disorder,

and do they have developmental issues?) had some

similarities to autism in that they are capable of so

much more than thought, and that they also seem to

have some of the immune issues and dietary issues

associated with autism... So even dramatic

improvements in a genetic disorder were possible.

> When I say that the first six months with her home

> were the hardest in my life I am not kidding.

**** I would imagine you have post traumatic stress

from that! I know I do, and I couldn't have had it

quite as hard.

>

> Now tell me about the discipline that I should be

> starting with her... Sheri

I am no expert on discipline! I am forever 'messing

it up', but they're just so doggone flexible once I

figure it out. I would start out like she's 1yr old

and assume she has about that much memory. Right now,

repetition and redirection would probably be helpful.

If you describe what you're up against, we can offer

what worked for us, since you really do have to adjust

for the state she's been in. I wouldn't imagine

time-outs would help one bit or that she would

understand them. I'm only guessing that considering

what you say she's been doing - sounds a lot like

infant/toddler exploration and learning, so discipline

may have to start on that level. The best advice Dr G

regularly gave me (discipline wise) was to treat them

like normal kids at their appropriate developmental

level.

Happy days!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Amazingly today was a wonderful day. When woke up at 5:30 am, since she

went to bed so early, I told her that I expected her to make good choices. I

told her that she was not allowed to go into her closet or to get in any

cupboards including the bathroom cupboards. I asked her if she understood and

she signed yes. Before every meal I told her that she was to use her fork and

not her hands and to wipe her hands on her napkin. Of course I again asked her

if she understood and she told me yes. We had a wonderful day. She didn't

spin, or pick nothing. It is so strange.... Her BM's have turned darker in

color already and for her that normally means good behavior. Never in my life

did I think that I would be able to tell so much about my child by smelling her

breath and looking at her feces. LOL My kinds tell me I am on poop patrol...

LOL Today I noticed when made eye contact with me her eyes were more

open. Sometimes I think that I am imagining things

and then when we travel home my brother says the things that I have been

thinking so it is not just me.

Could die off only last 5 days or so? I was expecting it to last longer.

Sheri

Kristy Nardini <krnardini@...> wrote:

Hi Sheri,

makes some good points, about soy protein and behaviours that many

kids have at some time or another.

My son dumps things and/or crumbles things in front of his eyes and throws

things when he has gluten (but he doesn't do it with enzymes with gluten).

For discipline, I've used " Happiest Toddler on the Block " and 1-2-3 Magic,

and they've been helpful with my twins. I also try to give them a lot of

choices and let them know what they can do (in place of what they cannot).

Kristy

Re: Die off? (or appropriate?)

Hey Sheri -

The pouring off of the milk may be considered a study

in physics! LOL. This may be more than difficulty of

impulse control. This may be a developmentally

appropriate milestone. The same with all the dumping.

That just might be a GREAT thing. One thing about

when these kids start " waking up " ... they start doing

all the things they should have been doing during

infancy, and they may revisit some of these behaviors.

On the downside, the tendency may be a little worse

for you (the walking nightmare) because at this point,

they can physically do more, and don't have all of

that brain functioning properly to limit themselves.

As that brain starts waking up more (if it won't work

immediatelyk, which it might)... the typical

discipline techniques starting now may be necessary

.... not punishment, of course, but having her " help "

you clean them back up. At least then, she can dump

and put back, but she might not be " there " yet where

she can do this consistently. She is doing what she

should have (may have) done at just over a year old.

Most kids have already started sliding back by this

time whether we noticed or not and may have to revisit

some of those developmental milestones. Even calling

you only when she's angry is the first part of infant

development in connecting with us... they initially

seek us out for comfort when something's wrong before

they start seeking us out just for the joy.

The tantrums will be out of proportion sometimes, but

you may want to consider the possibility that soy is a

trigger here. My child has big-time rages w/soy, but

it sneaks up. One way to tell is if her pupils seem

just slightly dilated... not so much that anyone but a

mom would be able to tell... and if you've not seen

them normal then maybe you wouldn't be able to tell,

either. You can take her outside into bright light

and if they don't go to pinpoints, you may have a soy

problem. (Yes, neurological irritation could also be

it but this test has worked for others.) If you

decide to try removing soy (I highly recommend it),

you should allow 5 days to see the results (very

consistent for us). If you allow 7-10 days to pass

and decide to retest it, you need to allow another 5

days ON the soy to see if tantrums and rages increase

again - although in smaller amounts it can take a week

or two - not w/soy milk though. Soy is a difficult

protein to digest just like milk, and at the very

least, 25% of dairy intolerance crosses over to soy

intolerance, but I really think that is higher. If

you want immediate improvement in your child's

behavior, pull out that soy. Worry about protein

later. It's worth it!

Sounds like your girl is doing awesome despite some

behaviors that will really start to level out. And if

you start contemplating some of these behaviors as

possibly developmentally appropriate, it may make this

period easier to adjust to. It's going to be a

while before she can control that impulse to explore

and experience her environment thru new eyes.

HTH-

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

>

> My daughter started Valtrex two weeks ago since day

> 10 I have seen behavior changes that are very

> different from those from yeast die off. When she

> had die off from yeast she was spinning, banging her

> head and digging at her skin and itching, her

> behavior changes this die off seems to be more along

> the lines of impulse control. For instance she

> spilled her soy milk off her cereal and onto the

> floor to watch it fall. (I have carpet in my dining

> room eeks) today she dumped over the cabinet int he

> bathroom, she opened her closet and pulled down all

> of her clothes, she dumped all the toys from the

> bins in my son's room, this girl has been a walking

> nightmare. But she has began calling for me and

> using Mama Mama but only when she is mad but it has

> been consistent. LOL Die off is killing

> me......ROFL I know that this too shall pass but

> how quickly? Sheri

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am so familiar with albinism as my oldest bio son has albinism. Albinism is a

genetic disorder but it does not cause any impairments cognitively, albinism

causes vision related challenges, and a need for sunscreen. My son has an IQ of

131 and he can spend the entire day in the sun with proper precautions. Many

people who have albinism have more challenges socially but I am pleased to say

that this is not the case with my son. I have been told that Zack is one of the

most popular kids in his class and by the way my phone rings I am sure that they

are right. LOL He normally gets A's and B's in the regular ed classroom as

long as he turns in his homework.

I am active in the albinism community and have many friends who have

albinism. Some are doctor's, lawyers, teachers, nurses, you name they do it,

although I am sure that there are no brain surgeons. LOL Here is some

interesting trivia the man who helped develop the CAT scan and High Definition

Television has albinism. He is from London England and a gem of a person.

As for PTS maybe? I am pretty resilient, I have had to be. I will tell you

that I am more tired than I have ever been in my life and there are times that I

can not finish a tough. I have never been like that before. I will admit that

I am happy that is going to be going to school full time this year so

that I can have some much needed me time. Sadly once she is there I will lay

money that I will worry about her all day. I hate the fact that she can not

tell me if something is wrong at school but I feel sure that if there is

something wrong I will know in her behaviors. Sheri

<thecolemans4@...> wrote:

Hi Sheri -

(I mixed in comments in the text below:)

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

I know it may be a

> good sign and being 5 years old but developmentally

> only 2 she doesn't have that far to regress

> so maybe this time will go quickly. One can

> hope....

*** It can be shocking how fast! But a slow and steady

is good too. Even though you're starting back, it

doesn't seem to take the entire time it would take a

normally developing child to meet some of the

milestones (could, but doesn't seem to) - because they

have been learning and experiencing, but not fully of

course. Some parents have mentioned that when older

kids come out of 'that cloud', the parents started

discovering all these things that the kid already knew

and had absorbed, but had been unable to use or

communicate properly.

Keep in mind that my daughter not only has

> autism but she has albinism and she is adopted and

> lived in an institution for the first 4 years of her

> life. Talk about 3 big strikes but she is

> progressing all the time.

**** That is a lot to deal with! I know nothing of

albinism and it's impact on development. But I do

remember a geneticist saying that Downs patients

(referred to since isn't albinism a genetic disorder,

and do they have developmental issues?) had some

similarities to autism in that they are capable of so

much more than thought, and that they also seem to

have some of the immune issues and dietary issues

associated with autism... So even dramatic

improvements in a genetic disorder were possible.

> When I say that the first six months with her home

> were the hardest in my life I am not kidding.

**** I would imagine you have post traumatic stress

from that! I know I do, and I couldn't have had it

quite as hard.

>

> Now tell me about the discipline that I should be

> starting with her... Sheri

I am no expert on discipline! I am forever 'messing

it up', but they're just so doggone flexible once I

figure it out. I would start out like she's 1yr old

and assume she has about that much memory. Right now,

repetition and redirection would probably be helpful.

If you describe what you're up against, we can offer

what worked for us, since you really do have to adjust

for the state she's been in. I wouldn't imagine

time-outs would help one bit or that she would

understand them. I'm only guessing that considering

what you say she's been doing - sounds a lot like

infant/toddler exploration and learning, so discipline

may have to start on that level. The best advice Dr G

regularly gave me (discipline wise) was to treat them

like normal kids at their appropriate developmental

level.

Happy days!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheri -

It is very unlikely that you are imagining anything.

Die off varies with every single child. Die off is

only a " may happen " thing, but if every parent is

expecting it to happen, they can easily attribute

anything bad after a med change to die-off or reaction

to that med. I've found in the past that my

expectations will change my behavior towards my kids

and make my prophetic expectations come true. Sounds

like you're not having that problem, though, as you're

concerned re the lack of them coming true (so far) .

That in itself is a pretty good indicator that you're

seeing what you think you are.

Comparisons and other experiences are very helpful

when you do have negatives, but they don't always

follow the same path. I know some parents have even

been devastated to not witness a die off, because they

have been told that die-off signals that that med is

going to work, so the absence of die-off to them meant

that it wasn't going to help their child, but they

quickly discovered that they did.

How exciting! Keep a good journal of these

observations... you will be so glad you did.

--- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

Sometimes I think that I

> am imagining things

> and then when we travel home my brother says the

> things that I have been thinking so it is not just

> me.

> Could die off only last 5 days or so? I was

> expecting it to last longer.

> Sheri

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I thought I'd " chime in " about my son's experience

with the anti-fungal & anti-viral. He's been on the

anti-viral for almost 2 months now and he has become

much more interactive with us & everyone else, has

become more aware of his enivronment, just seems more

alert & brighter. He also seems more relaxed. He's

stopped standing on his head as much, literally.

He's only been on the anti-fungal for about a week and

a half. He has had some of the laughing fits, but

sometimes I think he's just laughing at a video that

strikes him funny, but at other times, there doesn't

seem to be any " reason " for the sudden burst of

laughter. There have been a few times, especially in

the mornings, when it seems harder for him to get

going or just seems to be a little less with it. I'm

assuming these are all just die-off reactions he is

experiencing.

We are really pleased with his progress, ... we'll

take whatever we get! I was just thinking to myself

how much I can't wait to have him speak to us and have

a conversation with him. :-)

--- <thecolemans4@...> wrote:

> Hi Sheri -

>

> It is very unlikely that you are imagining anything.

>

>

> Die off varies with every single child. Die off is

> only a " may happen " thing, but if every parent is

> expecting it to happen, they can easily attribute

> anything bad after a med change to die-off or

> reaction

> to that med. I've found in the past that my

> expectations will change my behavior towards my kids

> and make my prophetic expectations come true.

> Sounds

> like you're not having that problem, though, as

> you're

> concerned re the lack of them coming true (so far)

> .

> That in itself is a pretty good indicator that

> you're

> seeing what you think you are.

>

> Comparisons and other experiences are very helpful

> when you do have negatives, but they don't always

> follow the same path. I know some parents have even

> been devastated to not witness a die off, because

> they

> have been told that die-off signals that that med is

> going to work, so the absence of die-off to them

> meant

> that it wasn't going to help their child, but they

> quickly discovered that they did.

>

> How exciting! Keep a good journal of these

> observations... you will be so glad you did.

>

>

>

> --- Sheri <eszbi5@...> wrote:

> Sometimes I think that I

> > am imagining things

> > and then when we travel home my brother says the

> > things that I have been thinking so it is not just

> > me.

> > Could die off only last 5 days or so? I was

> > expecting it to last longer.

> > Sheri

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>