prozac question

November 29, 1999

Dear Jim,

I'd dump the Prozac and go with 5-HTP, a tryptophan precursor which results

in increased serotonin.

It wouldn't hurt to try some melatonin, too.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Prozac question

> From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

>

> Howdy!

>

> A friend on another list has posed the following question. Anyone

> have any knowledge on this subject?

>

> " I cannot take Prozac or Paxil as I get a strange side effect

> like

> yawning - almost like muscle spasms where I feel like I can't

> expel the air

> from my lungs - sort of a frozen muscle sensation. It is not

> pleasant, and

> depression seems the better option. :-) I wonder if there is

> any link here

> between my reactions and serotonin levels? "

>

> jim

> --

> jim@... ICQ:16531148

> http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

>

> Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and

> taste good with catsup.

>

> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self- help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

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own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

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hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

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November 29, 1999

At 12:51 AM 11-30-1999 -0500, Marcus wrote:

>> " Saul Pressman " wrote:

>> I'd dump the Prozac and go with 5-HTP, a tryptophan precursor

>> which results in increased serotonin.

>

>Or even L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better,

>and I've heard the opposite, so who knows...

Anyone know where to get L-Tryptohan ?

The best article I've seen on using tryptophan vs. 5-HTP, with

exact protocols, is in an I.A.S. .PDF file (Adobe Acrobat).

(My GhostScript v4.03 wouldn't do a text extract on this file.)

You can download the .ZIP file from:

IAS ANTI-AGING BULLETINS

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/bulletins.htm

Go down 3/4 of the page, to: NOVEMBER 1997

and download this file.

See:

4. L-Tryptophan, nature's answer to Prozac.

Whatever happened to the essential amino acid L-Tryptophan?

And its importance in our regular diets by the biochemist,

South.

This file also contains:

1. Growth Hormone, the real fountain of youth!

Human Growth Hormone remains the most talked about anti-aging

medicine, and no wonder, as you will discover after reading

South MA's article.

2. NeySkin for new skin?

A unique combination skin cream that repairs and prevents skin

aging damage.

3. Modafinil, the ultimate stimulant?

Dr. Mason introduces us to a tiny class of drugs called

eugeroics that are going to reshape the way stimulants are used

and discussed.

Take care.

Bill

..

November 29, 1999

On 11/29/99 8:00 PM, Saul Pressman at saul@... wrote:

> From: " Saul Pressman " <saul@...>

>

> Dear Jim,

>

> I'd dump the Prozac and go with 5-HTP, a tryptophan precursor which results

> in increased serotonin.

>

> It wouldn't hurt to try some melatonin, too.

>

> Best of Health!

> Saul Pressman

Or even L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better, and I've

heard the opposite, so who knows...

--

Marcus

November 30, 1999

In a message dated 11/30/99 12:51:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,

cmarcus@... writes:

<< L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better, and I've

heard the opposite, so who knows... >>

Hi Marcus,

L- Tryptophan hasn't been available in the states in over 10 years due to a

bad batch at some point (stories say many people were seriously ill and some

permanently) or so I was led to understand. Anyone know of source for

L-Trytophan? I used it regularly until 1989 or so.

I'm also interested in knowing more about the 5 HTP that is supposed to be a

replacement for it?

Thanks,

Lash

November 30, 1999

In a message dated 11/29/99 6:59:18 PM Central Standard Time,

saul@... writes:

<< Dear Jim,

I'd dump the Prozac and go with 5-HTP, a tryptophan precursor which results

in increased serotonin.

It wouldn't hurt to try some melatonin, too.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman >>

I use both and they do work well. Take a little B-6 with them also. I take

them at night to sleep and then to carry over into the next day. I can sure

tell the difference between when I take them and when I don't.

Gene Downey

November 30, 1999

There are books out there on amino acids, but one book which has been

helpful to me has been

" The Diet Cure " - it covers more than 5htp but all the information in there

is very usable.

"

Re: Prozac question

> From: LASHLIN@...

>

> In a message dated 11/30/99 12:51:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> cmarcus@... writes:

>

> << L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better, and I've

> heard the opposite, so who knows... >>

> T> Hi Marcus,

> L- Tryptophan hasn't been available in the states in over 10 years due to

a

> bad batch at some point (stories say many people were seriously ill and

some

> permanently) or so I was led to understand. Anyone know of source for

> L-Trytophan? I used it regularly until 1989 or so.

> I'm also interested in knowing more about the 5 HTP that is supposed to be

a

> replacement for it?

> Thanks,

> Lash

>

> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self- help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can subscribe/unsubscribe via e-mail by sending AN e-mail to the

following address

> DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE

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>

November 30, 1999

L-Tryptophan was removed from the shwlves for HUMAN consumption, but it has

been available, in pure pharmaceutical grade (safe for human consumption)

from veterinarian suppliers ever since it was removed from the health food

stores...just don't tell them you are getting it for yourself. I told them I

had a depressed dog, and had no problem getting it.

Re: Prozac question

> From: LASHLIN@...

>

> In a message dated 11/30/99 12:51:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> cmarcus@... writes:

>

> << L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better, and I've

> heard the opposite, so who knows... >>

>

> Hi Marcus,

> L- Tryptophan hasn't been available in the states in over 10 years due to

a

> bad batch at some point (stories say many people were seriously ill and

some

> permanently) or so I was led to understand. Anyone know of source for

> L-Trytophan? I used it regularly until 1989 or so.

> I'm also interested in knowing more about the 5 HTP that is supposed to be

a

> replacement for it?

> Thanks,

> Lash

November 30, 1999

Veterinary, low-cost tryptophan supplier:

http://www.biochemicals.com

5-HTP reportedly causes gastronomical distress in some people.

L-Tryptophan blood-brain delivery is reportedly superior.

Reference: IAS ANTI-AGING BULLETINS

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/bulletins.htm

Go down 3/4 of the page, to 'NOVEMBER 1997' -- and download

this ZIP file (Adobe .PDF inside). Highly recommended reading!

The below from:

HEALTHY NEWS YOU CAN USE ISSUE #70 -- October 11, 1998

by J. Mercola, D.O. - http://www.mercola.com

[ Get on the HEALTHY NEWS mailing list at onelist.com ]

" ....I reached the conclusion about two months ago that

tryptophan seems to work much better [than 5-HTP]. This IS

available by prescription [from 'Compounding Pharmacies' --

see: http://www.ceri.com/sources.htm ], despite what many

pharmacists might tell you.

" The [FDA tryptophan] ban was lifted well over one year ago

and most pharmacists are unaware of that.

" I find that the tryptophan, even though it is further

removed from its serotonin end-product, seems to work

better for most people than 5-HTP. We sell 100 capsules of

tryptophan, 500 mg in our office for $47 which is much less

expensive than second generation antidepressants like

Prozac (unless one has prescription coverage). 100 5-HTP

100 mg, which is the equivalent dose to tryptophan sells

for $36.

" If one decides to use either of these treatments, vitamin

B6 at 100 mg twice a day and folic acid 2 mg twice a day

are useful to facilitate the conversion to serotonin.

A small amount of fruit taken before bedtime would be

helpful to move the tryptophan past the blood brain barrier

into the brain. If one uses tryptophan, the normal dose

is 1500 mg taken at bedtime. "

Take care.

Bill

_______________________________________________________________________

At 02:14 PM 11-30-1999 -0500, Marcus wrote:

>

> L-Tryptophan was removed from the shwlves for HUMAN consumption,

> but it has been available, in pure pharmaceutical grade (safe for

> human consumption) from veterinarian suppliers ever since it was

> removed from the health food stores...just don't tell them you are

> getting it for yourself. I told them I had a depressed dog, and

> had no problem getting it.

>

>----- Original Message -----

>> From: LASHLIN@...

>>

>> Hi Marcus,

>> L- Tryptophan hasn't been available in the states in over 10 years

>> due to a bad batch at some point (stories say many people were

>> seriously ill and some permanently) or so I was led to understand.

>> Anyone know of source for L-Trytophan? I used it regularly until

>> 1989 or so.

>>

>> I'm also interested in knowing more about the 5 HTP that is

>> supposed to be a replacement for it?

>> Thanks,

>> Lash

>

November 30, 1999

The metabolic pathway is

L-tryptophan =>> 5-HTP ==> Serotonin ==> Melatonin

The conversion requires methylating agents such as b-6,b-12,folate, and

SAMe. Actually L-tryptophan is preferential to 5-HTP, since too much 5-HTP

gets converted to serotonin in the bloodstream rather than the brain,

causing negative consequences. The studies using 5-HTP in europe also used

an agent (I don't recall the name of it) which blocked the conversion to

serotonin in the body, so actually there is some danger using 5-HTP alone.

Many believe the ban on tryptophan is to protect US manufacturers of AD

drugs based on verbage from an FDA meeting. One " bad " batch caused EMS, for

which the antidote was tryptophan. For more on this, see Smart Drugs and

Nutrients by Dean and thaler or www.CERI.com. It is just an amino

acid, which is found abundantly in bananas and turkey. If americans knew

chemistry, the marketplace would be quite different. Consider the case of

GHB (Gamma-Hydroxy Buterate, a naturally-ocurring neurotransmitter which

promotes GH release), which is being confused with the date-rape drug

Ropinerole (a benzodiazapiene like Valium). Heaven forbit GHB interfere with

the sale of injectable GH or ethanol (the top date-rape drug). I personally

am glad the FDA is there to protect me.

You can buy-tryptophan from QHI in the, same company as a few suggested to

buy smart drugs. They are really good, been dealing with them for a while.

Don't tell anyone LOL.

I might suggest you ask your doctor if you can take 200-400mg SAMe along

with your daily bananas (or 500 mg l-tryptophan). Finally, Dr. Jim '

formula, Intelliplex 2000, contains l-tryptophan along with SJW, pirecetam,

hydergine, centrophenoxine, and PS). Costs a bit though, but he's a great

doc.

If you never did a colon cleanse, you may try that as well. Mucoid covering

the intestinal walls can prevent the absorption of B vitamins, hence

reducing SAMe and methylation levels and causing CNS depression. Further, as

this material putrefies, the toxins produced (ammonia, indole, etc) often

disrupt metabolism in many ways. A blood tox panel may reveal this, or a $10

jar of " Perfect 7 " (psyliium husk and bentonite clay) may get rid of it. The

standard blood test will normally not show this as the bacteria are often in

the intestine, not the blood. The toxins are what makes a lot of people

sick.

Of course, this is not medical advise. My understanding is that most MD's

are quite familiar with natural detoxification strategies and oxygen

therapy, and prefer them over drugs and surgery (:

Good luck

Matt

|<< L-Tryptophan itself. I have heard that the 5-HTP is better, and I've

| heard the opposite, so who knows... >>

|

|Hi Marcus,

|L- Tryptophan hasn't been available in the states in over 10 years due to a

|bad batch at some point (stories say many people were seriously ill and

some

|permanently) or so I was led to understand. Anyone know of source for

|L-Trytophan? I used it regularly until 1989 or so.

|I'm also interested in knowing more about the 5 HTP that is supposed to be

a

|replacement for it?

| Thanks,

| Lash

|

||OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self- help subjects.

|

|THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

|

|This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

|

|You can subscribe/unsubscribe via e-mail by sending AN e-mail to the

following address

|DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE

| oxyplus-subscribeonelist - subscribe to a list.

| oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist - unsubscribe from a list.

| oxyplus-digestonelist - switch your subscription to digest mode.

| oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

|

June 8, 2001

just wondering if anyone here is currently on or have been on prozac....does

it make a difference....does it help????????????????

please any input will be greatly appreciated

thank you

sue...advocate for lyme

June 9, 2001

In a message dated 6/8/2001 11:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

despratmom@... writes:

> just wondering if anyone here is currently on or have been on prozac....does

> it make a difference....does it help????????????????

> please any input will be greatly appreciated

> thank you

> sue...advocate for lyme

>

Hi Sue,

When I was being thrown from Doctor to doctor and noone knew what was

wrong I went to a psychiatrist and he said allthough there was nothing wrong

with me mentally maybe Prozac wold make me feel better. Not knowing any

better at the time I took it. I did well on it for about 6 days then had a

horrible anxiety reaction. I know it helps alot of people but for me it was a

nightmare. They say when you're on Prozac it will get worse before it gets

better, meaning the anxiety but at the time I couldn't handle to worse.. Good

Luck...

June 9, 2001

Sue.

I am on Paxil, 40mg now, it is same class as Prozac. It helps me

tremendously to deal with my illness, as does this group. I know I would be

living in a dark room in a fetal position without it. My doctor recommended

it early in my treatment, so I have been on it almost 5 years now. When I

tell him I wish I was dead, he ups the dose.

Give it a try, but it takes several weeks to take affect, plus never try to

stop it cold turkey, need to wean off it.

Good luck,

Marta

----- Original Message -----

From: <despratmom@...>

>

> just wondering if anyone here is currently on or have been on

prozac....does

> it make a difference....does it help????????????????

> please any input will be greatly appreciated

> thank you

> sue...advocate for lyme

June 9, 2001

In a message dated 6/8/01 10:28:42 PM Central Daylight Time,

despratmom@... writes:

<< ust wondering if anyone here is currently on or have been on

prozac....does

it make a difference....does it help???????????????? >>

I used it when I first got sick...great for energy and fatigue...bad if you

happened to like sex

However, that was before my immune system became dysfunctional. Any time I

have SSRI anti-depressants since then they have been no help. Apparently,

the immune system change wouldn't let the anti-depressants do what they were

supposed to do.

June 10, 2001

Hi Sue,

Yes, I have been on Prozac.......not on it now though, because it can make

my Period Limb Movement Disorder worse.

I took the Prozac in the morning, because it was very stimulating, it would

jump start my body for the day, keep me out of the brain fog, and

functioning well. I found it to be wonderful. Everyone is different

though, some people complain that it makes them over stimulated and kind of

jumpy. I guess it acts on everyone differently..........its certainly worth

giving it a try.....

Connie nwnj

Leave no stone unturned.......

June 10, 2001

Hi Marta,

I'm not sure if they are the same class. I think Prozac is in a class

totally by itself...I think it works differently than all the other

anti-depressants.

Connie

Leave no stone unturned.......

June 10, 2001

Hi Sue,

Prozac worked well for depression, but I also had anxiety and insomnia. Had to

take anti-anxiety medication for that problem, and the nightmares and

sleeplessness were horrible. Better than dealing with the depression, but not

good. Paxil has helped me with those problems, however. Been taking it for about

3-4 years. No anti-anxiety meds anymore and no nightmares. Works well for

managing the depression.

These meds work differently on everyone. You may not experience any unpleasant

side effects. Many people have been helped tremendously by Prozac, so give it a

try. If it doesn't work, or you experience these side effects, talk to your

doctor. They may change you to Paxil, which seems to have less side effects on a

great many people. Perhaps because of Lyme our brains are more sensitive to

these anxiety and sleep problems?

Not treating the depression at all is certainly worse and more dangerous than

any of the side effects

Love ya, Rose

From: LymeDizzy@...

Subject: Re: prozac question

In a message dated 6/8/2001 11:28:32 PM Eastern

Daylight Time,

despratmom@... writes:

> just wondering if anyone here is currently on

or have been on prozac....does

> it make a difference....does it

help????????????????

> sue...advocate for lyme

Hi Sue,

When I was being thrown from Doctor to

doctor and noone knew what was

wrong I went to a psychiatrist and he said

allthough there was nothing wrong

with me mentally maybe Prozac wold make me feel

better. Not knowing any

better at the time I took it. I did well on it

for about 6 days then had a

horrible anxiety reaction. I know it helps alot

of people but for me it was a

nightmare. They say when you're on Prozac it will

get worse before it gets

better, meaning the anxiety but at the time I

couldn't handle to worse.. Good

Luck...

T.O.I.L. for Lyme!

T=Teach tolerance; O=Overcome ignorance; I=Initiate insurance reform; L=Labor

for Lyme literacy

*Our websites*

http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/RoseWriter or

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/romarkaraoke/james.html

---------------------------------

June 10, 2001

Hi Connie,

Thanks for pointing that out, I really wasn't sure and didn't take the

time to check it out. Well then, I would definitely advise people with LD

to take Paxil, I have done real well on it, but then again all of us are

different. To be certain that it is helping me though, I would have to wean

myself off of it to see what occurs, I just can't take that chance.

Hugs,

Marta

----- Original Message -----

From: " conniek " <conniek@...>

> Hi Marta,

> I'm not sure if they are the same class. I think Prozac is in a class

> totally by itself...I think it works differently than all the other

> anti-depressants.

> Connie

> Leave no stone unturned.......

June 10, 2001

nope, zoloft here.

sheryl

Re: [ ] prozac question

> In a message dated 6/8/01 10:28:42 PM Central Daylight Time,

> despratmom@... writes:

>

> << ust wondering if anyone here is currently on or have been on

> prozac....does

> it make a difference....does it help???????????????? >>

>

> I used it when I first got sick...great for energy and fatigue...bad if

you

> happened to like sex

>

> However, that was before my immune system became dysfunctional. Any time

I

> have SSRI anti-depressants since then they have been no help. Apparently,

> the immune system change wouldn't let the anti-depressants do what they

were

> supposed to do.

>

> Welcome to

>

> Easy Reference:

> Send a blank email message to:

>

> -Unsubscribe - Unsubscribe from the list

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format

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> Please send messages not related to Lyme disease (this includes humor and

information about other diseases) to -Offtopic

>

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>

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> /chat

>

June 10, 2001

Hi all, I do believe the antidepressant question is a hard one for we are all

different.....I have been on prozac and did quite well for a long time and

then wham....my anxiety level grew to an all time high.......then went to

welbutron......it worked well for a while and then I started having rage

fits......now I am on paxil......and to be honest am not crazy about

it.........it seems to make me eat all the time.....and I am not sure what it

is doing for my mood.........Dr D says that is one big problem he sees with a

lot of his lyme patients ........that these types of meds seem to have a

short duration often times.....and that patients must be swapped around quite

frequently........I think as anything it becomes an individual

thing......since everyone's body reacts so differently.......I personally

wish the prozac had kept working for I think it did the best job while it

lasted.......who knows I think I am going to ask my DR to try it again and

see how long it lasts

Hugs everyone

Amy

In a message dated 6/10/01 10:15:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

sjbeardaolcom@... writes:

> > Hi Connie,

> > Thanks for pointing that out, I really wasn't sure and didn't

> take the

> > time to check it out. Well then, I would definitely advise people

> with LD

> > to take Paxil, I have done real well on it, but then again all of

> us are

> > different.

> Just to let y'all know, Paxil has a lot more potential side effects

> than others...I began taking it for my " anxiety " (aka, vertigo while

> driving ) last year, and had a horrible reaction with convulsions and

> lights flashing in my eyes. While I'm in the minority of fpeople to

> have this reaction, my new dr says she almost never prescribes it

> because there are so many more effects than with some others. A

> suggestion is to take a very small amount of the normal dosage nad

> slowly build up, that way if there is an advers effect, it won't be

> as bad!

> Jenni

>

June 10, 2001

> Hi Connie,

> Thanks for pointing that out, I really wasn't sure and didn't

take the

> time to check it out. Well then, I would definitely advise people

with LD

> to take Paxil, I have done real well on it, but then again all of

us are

> different.

Just to let y'all know, Paxil has a lot more potential side effects

than others...I began taking it for my " anxiety " (aka, vertigo while

driving ) last year, and had a horrible reaction with convulsions and

lights flashing in my eyes. While I'm in the minority of fpeople to

have this reaction, my new dr says she almost never prescribes it

because there are so many more effects than with some others. A

suggestion is to take a very small amount of the normal dosage nad

slowly build up, that way if there is an advers effect, it won't be

as bad!

Jenni

June 11, 2001

Hi Jenni,

Sorry you had such a bad reaction, I had one similar to that when I took

Ambien for the first time, but now I can take it with no problem. Sometimes

I wonder if meds we take interact and cause these problems, probably so. I

guess I am lucky that I do so well on the Paxil, but I will look up possible

side effects to make sure some of these symptoms I blame on Lyme disease are

not really from the drug. I did start out with 20mg and gradually moved up

to the 40mg I am taking now.

Marta

----- Original Message -----

From: <sjbeardaolcom@...>

< >