Re: Manzanero

[Guest guest]

In our quest to find docs who Rx Armour or Cytomel, we have found that a lot of those docs are too deeply into alternate therapies and supplements and not sufficiently thyro-centric. It is unfortunate that some folks have to submit to yeast testing, chelation therapy and . . . .uh. . . .high colonics(!). . . . .in order to get their Armour. A lot of those docs push the alternate therapies instead of giving adequate doses of thyroid meds.

I have not heard of Manzanero leaving anyone undermedicated, and he is one of the very few who is willing to treat adrenal fatigue. I would want to know how insistent he is about the "other" testing and therapies.

Can you list some of the tests he runs that insurance does not pay on?

>> I went to Dr. Manzanero a few months ago and he was really into a lot of > testing - not usual blood work but some different ones that were'nt usually > covered by insurance. He is also into chelation therapy which is costly and time > consuming....I wasn't sure about him although he is a nice man. are you > going to Debbie Winder or Dr. Manzanero?

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

Not sure what their follow up prices are, but the prices for an initial intake now is $350 whether you see Manzanero or Debbie Winder. I don't have insurance so my only option is to pay totally out of pocket and $1000 for appt. amd tests is a bit steep for me right now.

I shall ask Connie if she handles adrenals and go back to her if she does. She was pretty good about armour and her specialty is hormones, so probably will go there. I'll add her to the database today even though she's not a doc... she's a PA.

JaydenStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I am going to Debbie Winder. She has never (at least so far) suggested

chelation therapy to me. She did suggest some vitamin supplements the

first time I was there. I bought them the first visit, but have always

ordered the next supply from the internet. The only two test that I

have taken that were not covered by insurance was the saliva test and

the iodine load test. Blood work was covered by insurance. Now they

use Spectra Labs for their saliva test and Spectra is expensive. Canary

Club costs much less. (If memory serves me correctly ... a $100 less).

Never tried it, but if you ordered your own labs from Canary Club, I'll

bet she would use the results.

Pat

>

> I went to Dr. Manzanero a few months ago and he was really into a lot

of

> testing - not usual blood work but some different ones that were'nt

usually

> covered by insurance. He is also into chelation therapy which is

costly and time

> consuming....I wasn't sure about him although he is a nice man. are

you

> going to Debbie Winder or Dr. Manzanero?

>

>

>

> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

>

[Guest guest]

I was one of the unfortunate ones to have gotten stuck with a Dr. who pushed for chelation first (costly and time consuming it was for sure!!!) and years later was finally diagnosed with hashis... I believe he used to be on the list and is no longer on it... Once again, I'm just glad I found this place )Jan wrote: In our quest to find docs who Rx Armour or Cytomel, we have found that a lot of those docs are too deeply into alternate therapies and supplements and not sufficiently thyro-centric. It is unfortunate that some folks have to submit to yeast testing, chelation therapy and . . . .uh. . . .high colonics(!). . . . .in order to get their Armour. A lot of those docs push the alternate therapies instead of giving adequate doses of thyroid meds. I have not heard of Manzanero leaving anyone undermedicated, and he is one of the very few who is willing to treat adrenal fatigue. I would want to know how insistent he is about the "other" testing and therapies. Can you list some of the tests he runs that insurance does not pay on? >> I went to Dr. Manzanero a few months ago and he was really into a lot of > testing - not usual blood work but some different ones that were'nt usually > covered by insurance. He is also into chelation therapy which is costly and time > consuming....I wasn't sure about him although he is a nice man. are you > going to Debbie Winder or Dr. Manzanero?

Imelda Macias

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

hi Jayden,

I am a bit miffed that when I rescheduled my appointment last month

that they didnt mention that they were going up on their prices. can

you imagine the shock of being billed $100 more than you planned?

I am going to cancel my appointment due to the price rise. I will be

calling Connie as well.

>

> Hi Pat,

>

> Not sure what their follow up prices are, but the prices for an

initial

> intake now is $350 whether you see Manzanero or Debbie Winder. I

don't have

> insurance so my only option is to pay totally out of pocket and

$1000 for appt.

> amd tests is a bit steep for me right now.

> I shall ask Connie if she handles adrenals and go back to her

if she

> does. She was pretty good about armour and her specialty is

hormones, so

> probably will go there. I'll add her to the database today even

though she's not a

> doc... she's a PA.

>

> Jayden

>

>

>

> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in

shape.

> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?

NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

>

[Guest guest]

I will let y'all know how my follow up appointment goes on Jan 29. When

I went there a year ago (for the first time), my hour appt cost $240

plus the cost of the saliva test, which was $220, plus two vitamin

suppliments (another $50. I know that my GP is paid for by insurance,

but my GP charges $79 for an office visit, of which I get about 5

minutes of his time, if I am lucky. For that I pay a $15 co-pay and

insurance picks up the negotiated remaining cost. If I had no

insurance, I would have to pay the $79. Specialist are even more

expensive. Looking at it from that point of view, $320 for about an

hours time (which is what you will spend with either Dr. Manzanero or

Debbie Winder) doesn't seem so bad. At $320 for an hour it would cost

about $27 for 5 minutes of their time. The same amount of time that I

would have paid my GP $79 for without insurance.

If you have insurance, then they will give you the sheet to file against

your own insurance. If you have blood work done it will probably either

be done by CPL or Quest. Both will file with your insurance. Saliva

test are paid for up front and sent to Spectra Labs. You can get it

done cheaper through Canary Club.

For comparison, does anyone out there that uses Dr. R know what is

initial visits cost if you don't have insurance? Just wondering, since

Dr R. and Manzanero seem to be two reliable doctors that treat adrenals

and sex hormones.

The doctors that don't file insurance do so for a reason. If they had

to abide by insurance standards then they couldn't give you an hour of

their time and the have to abide by more standard practices.

Pat

> >

> > Hi Pat,

> >

> > Not sure what their follow up prices are, but the prices for an

> initial

> > intake now is $350 whether you see Manzanero or Debbie Winder. I

> don't have

> > insurance so my only option is to pay totally out of pocket and

> $1000 for appt.

> > amd tests is a bit steep for me right now.

> > I shall ask Connie if she handles adrenals and go back to her

> if she

> > does. She was pretty good about armour and her specialty is

> hormones, so

> > probably will go there. I'll add her to the database today even

> though she's not a

> > doc... she's a PA.

> >

> > Jayden

> >

> >

> >

> > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in

> shape.

> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?

> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For the initial visits with Dr. R I was charged:

First visit $340 for new paitent. I spent approx. 1 1/2 hours there. Also, initial labs were $1817.

Second visit (2 weeks later) $310 for OV. I spent approx. 1 1/2 hours there.

First three month visit was $150. I was there about 1 1/2 hours.

Hope this helps.

I will let y'all know how my follow up appointment goes on Jan 29. WhenI went there a year ago (for the first time), my hour appt cost $240

plus the cost of the saliva test, which was $220, plus two vitaminsuppliments (another $50. I know that my GP is paid for by insurance,but my GP charges $79 for an office visit, of which I get about 5minutes of his time, if I am lucky. For that I pay a $15 co-pay and

insurance picks up the negotiated remaining cost. If I had noinsurance, I would have to pay the $79. Specialist are even moreexpensive. Looking at it from that point of view, $320 for about anhours time (which is what you will spend with either Dr. Manzanero or

Debbie Winder) doesn't seem so bad. At $320 for an hour it would costabout $27 for 5 minutes of their time. The same amount of time that Iwould have paid my GP $79 for without insurance.If you have insurance, then they will give you the sheet to file against

your own insurance. If you have blood work done it will probably eitherbe done by CPL or Quest. Both will file with your insurance. Salivatest are paid for up front and sent to Spectra Labs. You can get it

done cheaper through Canary Club.For comparison, does anyone out there that uses Dr. R know what isinitial visits cost if you don't have insurance? Just wondering, sinceDr R. and Manzanero seem to be two reliable doctors that treat adrenals

and sex hormones.The doctors that don't file insurance do so for a reason. If they hadto abide by insurance standards then they couldn't give you an hour oftheir time and the have to abide by more standard practices.

Pat> >

> > Hi Pat,> >> > Not sure what their follow up prices are, but the prices for an> initial> > intake now is $350 whether you see Manzanero or Debbie Winder. I> don't have

> > insurance so my only option is to pay totally out of pocket and> $1000 for appt.> > amd tests is a bit steep for me right now.> > I shall ask Connie if she handles adrenals and go back to her

> if she> > does. She was pretty good about armour and her specialty is> hormones, so> > probably will go there. I'll add her to the database today even> though she's not a

> > doc... she's a PA.> >> > Jayden> >> >> >> > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in> shape.> >

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489> >>

[Guest guest]

I see in-network for my $15 copay. All labs are billed through his office and depending on my plan at the time, may be included in the copay or I may be billed 20% of the negotiated price. I have at times had to pay a $25 out-of-town blood draw fee. Except for that fee, all of my blood work has been covered. He des not use saliva tests at all.

Folks who see him out of network will have to pay full price for the labs, even if those labs are in-network for their insurance.

We have seen insurance companies, especially BCBS, dump good docs left and right because these docs are costing them too much money. This is why is no longer in-network for most BCBS plans. That was not his choice.

Another thing about insurance companies. . . . .It is often they who initiate complaints with the state board in cases where there was no harm to a patient. This happens most often when a doc submits for payment and alternative treatment or test that they do not want to pay for.

The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about Medicare? This is all about the New World Order controlling and rationing medical care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug when THEY think the unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did I remind you not to get me started?

> >> > hi Jayden,> >> > I am a bit miffed that when I rescheduled my appointment last month> > that they didnt mention that they were going up on their prices. can> > you imagine the shock of being billed $100 more than you planned?> >> > I am going to cancel my appointment due to the price rise. I will be> > calling Connie as well.> >> >

[Guest guest]

Way to go Jan! You are absolutely right. Just talk to some Thyroid

patients that are in Canada, Europe, Austraila, or other countires where

medical care has been nationalized. They often can't get anything other

than the gold standard (Synthroid) and they can't pick which doctor they

go to. Our system is far from perfect, and there are millions don't

have heath insurance because they can't afford it. But, so far we can

pick who we want to see, even if we have to pay more.

I did a little math (being the technology geek that I am). I pay for

Aetna PPO $1,479.92 per month, of that my company pays $1,165.60, so I

am actually paying $314.32 out of my monthly pay check. (This is for a

family of 3) That adds up to $3,768 per year. If there were two office

visits a month then the insurance cost would be $157 plus a $15 co-pay

or $172 for each of the two visits, or $344 per month. We actually

don't usually have 2 office visits per month, so it is really more

expensive per visit. If each visit is $172 and I only get 5 - 15

minutes of the doctor's time, then I am paying between $34.40 and $11.46

for each minute I am in the doctor's office that is paid for by

insurance. Unfortunately we tend to look at only th $15 copay and

forget about what is taken out of our pay check each month. By

comparison Manzanero's per minute cost is $5.33 per minute. So if I

were to consider what is taken out of my paycheck plus the co-pay, I am

paying more for less quality time. I don't think that I would ever get

an hour from my GP. Looking at these numbers, Jan gets a real bargin

since Dr. R takes her insurance and gives her an hour plus. By the time

I file my own out of network insurance, the $320 cost becomes $64 for

the hour's time from Debbie Winder.

Pat

> > >

> > > hi Jayden,

> > >

> > > I am a bit miffed that when I rescheduled my appointment last

month

> > > that they didnt mention that they were going up on their prices.

can

> > > you imagine the shock of being billed $100 more than you planned?

> > >

> > > I am going to cancel my appointment due to the price rise. I will

be

> > > calling Connie as well.

> > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder why he doesnt use saliva test? Those are suppose to be the

most reliable for hormones and adrenels. Not sure about the thyroid

though.

Will Dr except testing done elsewhere? What kinds of labs is

he doing for over 1800? That seems crazy for labs.

> > >

> > > hi Jayden,

> > >

> > > I am a bit miffed that when I rescheduled my appointment last

month

> > > that they didnt mention that they were going up on their

prices. can

> > > you imagine the shock of being billed $100 more than you

planned?

> > >

> > > I am going to cancel my appointment due to the price rise. I

will be

> > > calling Connie as well.

> > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

will not treat based on tests done elsewhere.

Besides Free, T3, Free T4 and TSH, he runs antibodies, S*E*X* and adrenal hormones, ferritin and related tests. He may also order B6, B12, folacin, lipids, etc.

> >> > > > I see in-network for my $15 copay. All labs are billed > through> > his office and depending on my plan at the time, may be included in > the> > copay or I may be billed 20% of the negotiated price. I have at > times> > had to pay a $25 out-of-town blood draw fee. Except for that fee, > all of> > my blood work has been covered. He des not use saliva tests at all.> > > > Folks who see him out of network will have to pay full price for the> > labs, even if those labs are in-network for their insurance.> > > > We have seen insurance companies, especially BCBS, dump good docs > left> > and right because these docs are costing them too much money. This > is> > why is no longer in-network for most BCBS plans. That was > not> > his choice.> > > > Another thing about insurance companies. . . . .It is often they who> > initiate complaints with the state board in cases where there was no> > harm to a patient. This happens most often when a doc submits for> > payment and alternative treatment or test that they do not want to > pay> > for.> > > > The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about > Medicare?> > This is all about the New World Order controlling and rationing > medical> > care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug when THEY think > the> > unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did I remind you not > to> > get me started?

[Guest guest]

He does let those of us out of town use a specific lab called CPL before we come to see him, just not for the first visit. Luckily, there is one close to my home.

will not treat based on tests done elsewhere.

Besides Free, T3, Free T4 and TSH, he runs antibodies, S*E*X* and adrenal hormones, ferritin and related tests. He may also order B6, B12, folacin, lipids, etc.

> >> > > > I see in-network for my $15 copay. All labs are billed > through> > his office and depending on my plan at the time, may be included in > the> > copay or I may be billed 20% of the negotiated price. I have at > times> > had to pay a $25 out-of-town blood draw fee. Except for that fee, > all of> > my blood work has been covered. He des not use saliva tests at all.

> > > > Folks who see him out of network will have to pay full price for the> > labs, even if those labs are in-network for their insurance.> > > > We have seen insurance companies, especially BCBS, dump good docs > left> > and right because these docs are costing them too much money. This > is> > why is no longer in-network for most BCBS plans. That was > not> > his choice.

> > > > Another thing about insurance companies. . . . .It is often they who> > initiate complaints with the state board in cases where there was no> > harm to a patient. This happens most often when a doc submits for

> > payment and alternative treatment or test that they do not want to > pay> > for.> > > > The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about > Medicare?

> > This is all about the New World Order controlling and rationing > medical> > care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug when THEY think > the> > unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did I remind you not > to> > get me started? -- CauleyHome Cell

[Guest guest]

The truth was never more evident. The insurance companies are not our friends, though they pretend to be. It is so obvious. The object is to get the monthly premiums from millions of people, if not a billion, and keep everything they can. Like you said, New World Order. Who cares who feels bad, it's the business that counts, not people's lives.

Re: Manzanero

I see in-network for my $15 copay. All labs are billed through his office and depending on my plan at the time, may be included in the copay or I may be billed 20% of the negotiated price. I have at times had to pay a $25 out-of-town blood draw fee. Except for that fee, all of my blood work has been covered. He des not use saliva tests at all.

Folks who see him out of network will have to pay full price for the labs, even if those labs are in-network for their insurance.

We have seen insurance companies, especially BCBS, dump good docs left and right because these docs are costing them too much money. This is why is no longer in-network for most BCBS plans. That was not his choice.

Another thing about insurance companies. . . . .It is often they who initiate complaints with the state board in cases where there was no harm to a patient. This happens most often when a doc submits for payment and alternative treatment or test that they do not want to pay for.

The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about Medicare? This is all about the New World Order controlling and rationing medical care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug when THEY think the unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did I remind you not to get me started?

[Guest guest]

And if you think it's bad now, it would be much worse with any kind of

universal health care...

Marti

<snip>

>

> The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about

> Medicare? This is all about the New World Order controlling and

> rationing medical care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug

> when THEY think the unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did

> I remind you not to get me started? 

>

[Guest guest]

Health insurance, Medicare and Medicaid are just stepping stones to universal health care, which puts our very lives in the hands of the power elite. I would note that when Oregon was voting on assisted suicide, the HMOs came out in favor of it. Don't you know that will be their treatment of choice. . . . .instead of just dragging their feet on approving payment until it is too late. . . . . Martha L Lovejoy wrote: And if you think it's bad now, it would be much worse with any kind of

universal health care...Marti>> The insurance company is not your friend. You wanna talk about > Medicare? This is all about the New World Order controlling and > rationing medical care. . . . .THEY want to be able to pull the plug > when THEY think the unwashed masses have become too uppity. . . . .Did > I remind you not to get me started?

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