Re: raaw cHICKEN

[Guest guest]

Anne,

I had a "heinz 57 get that thin bone on the leg bone stuck in between her teeth when she was about a year old... it bled but we got in out... so since then I do not give my dogs chicken. I use Flints for the dry... but they get a variety of beef stuff. and sometimes organ meats. (livers/hearts, that kind of stuff).. when I get by the butcher shop.Anne Bird <irishfox@...> wrote:

>If you have never fed RAW chix and have no experiencxe how can you agree or disagree? I have fed RAW chicken including legs and tighs since 1997 and have never had one single problem. No problem with puppies or adults or newcomers to RAW feeding. I always start Rescue dogs out on RAW Chix and they have never had a problem...they were having tremdous problems with that horrible cooked grain slop they call dog food in a bag.By not feeding RAW to your dogs, you are denying them their heritage and just going along with all of the brain washing. I'm a free thinker and my dogs are healthy, I feed them a species appropriate diet, not what some vet dreamed up to make money.Anne

[Guest guest]

I am sorry if anyone felt personally offended by my experience

regarding the retrieval of bones from dog’s GI tracts.

I know what I know and I can’t help that .

J

I think Don and have hit on a couple of major issues as to

why it’s more of a risk for a domestic dog than a wild canine, and btw-

according the vet the wild one DO get bones stuck occasionally too. They just die with out medical

care.

Don’t ask me how he knew this, cause I don’t remember

<g> I DO remember asking him that very same question as I had always

held the belief dogs could handle those things. I come from a long line of

animal lovers and we always let them eat the bones.

Anyway- sorry- back to my main point-dogs today are FAR from wild

animals. Between breeding , confinement for generations, they do not possess the

same skills as their wild counterparts do. Many behaviors are learned, not

instinctive.

We had a breeder of Abyssian cats who took a liking

to me and would give me his less than perfect or ill cats and it was SO

FUNNY…. Those guys wouldn’t know what a do with a mouse if their

lives depended on it. So it’s really not surprising that

dogs would be having some of the same issues.

With regards to feeding, I don’t see anything wrong with

feeding raw. I am only saying that those bones can and often do cause problems.

Dogs do need some grains, greens and veggies too. Even in the wild they get

those things simply by eating their prey’s stomach contents. Same

principal as gut

loading crickets with goodies before you feed them to your lizard or hedgie. J

I have always fed our animals a high quality food such and Eukanuba , Iams and the like with out any problems and have

had animals who lived very long healthy lives. Those cheap brands of dog foods

and the ones skimping on the protein are not healthy and cause lots of gastric

upsets in the animals.

Carol in IL

[Guest guest]

It happened across the board, but dogs left

to roam and raid the trash were frequent visitors. We had one dog who

had surgery twice during the time I worked there.

He always recommended a high quality brand

food. If you do that, supplements shouldn’t be needed and now they have all

those specialty choices out there for all ages, sizes and even some health problems.

He recommended supplements for those who made

home made foods and tended to use the same types of ingredients each time, or for

sick and pg animals.

Another interesting little factoid is cats

are really susceptible to choking and getting things caught in

their throats. Once something is in

a cat’s mouth their rough tongue propels it backward sometimes despite

their best effort to move it forward.

Yarn is not a good thing for cat’s

to play with and needles on the end of thread often catch a cat’s fancy and

then get stuck in their throat. Watch a cat when they get something in their

mouth they don’t really want there. It’s a struggle for them to get

it out and they will often take a paw and wipe it out.

I will never forget one poor cat during

Christmas, she had swallowed tinsel off the tree and it made it to her

intestinal tract and as it was moved along it straightened out, became very

taut and literally sawed holes into the side of the cat’s intestine

causing the contents to leak out. She died of peritonitis L

In a message dated 10/14/2004 2:36:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time,

doihavtasay@... writes:

I am sorry if anyone felt personally

offended by my experience regarding the retrieval of bones from dog’s GI

tracts.

Carol,

Was there any consistency as to size of

dog or breed that had the stuck bones most of the time?

I know there are risks with

anything. There are so many options when it comes to pet foods.

Sometimes I like the fact that dry dog food is so easy. Dip a couple cups

of food in a bowl and give it to them. Then when I am not so tired I do

other things that I know are better for them. I only wish we could open a

bag of food for ourselves and be done and have all the nutrition we need!

I am a firm believer in we have overtaxed

our soil and there are no nutritional benefits in the soil any

longer. We are to let the soil rest every 7 years and that certainly

isn't being done. So, no doubt we aren't getting the nutrition we need

from our foods, but also in the pets foods as it comes from the same sources.

Did the Vet you worked for suggest

supplements? What brand of food did

(s)he recommend?

Pet nutrition is a concern for me and an

interest to me. I learn everything I possibly can about it. Just

wanting to know what you learned and what they recommended to their clien'ts

pets.

Thanks,

Deborah

Klassi Kritters

Klassi Kritters Kage Krippers (coming soon)

Klassi Kritters ?????(personalized) (coming soon)

·

subject to the

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

Okay....let's take this discussion to an appropriate venue. I co-moderate a list called NaturalRawDog (you can subscribe by sending an email to NaturalRawDog-subscribe ). It espouses the prey model of feeding and is pretty stringent in that regard....no grains, no commercial food, etc. discussed on the list. If you'd like to discuss prey model raw feeding, come on over!<G>

Sharyn

From: Anne Bird [mailto:irishfox@...] I feed them a species appropriate diet, not what some vet dreamed up to make money.

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[Guest guest]

A stool for a dog depends on what it's eaten. It can be any color (if Cedar has had lamb, for example, it's very light); it probably will be compact and fairly tight -- however, if she has a meal of fish or offal, it's generally darker and fairly soft.

Bones make a compact, tight stool.

Sharyn

From: doihavtasay [mailto:doihavtasay@...]

A healthy stool for a dog should be fairly dark in color, compact and pretty tight. Those large light colored kinda soft stools mean too much grains in the food.

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[Guest guest]

http://www.api4animals.org/79print.htm

Three of the five major pet food companies in the United States are

subsidiaries of major multinational companies: Nestlé (Alpo, Fancy

Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, and Ralston Purina products such as Dog

Chow, ProPlan, and Purina One), Heinz (9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train,

Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe), Colgate-Palmolive (Hill's Science

Diet Pet Food). Other leading companies include Procter & Gamble

(Eukanuba and Iams), Mars (Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba,

Waltham's), and Nutro. From a business standpoint, multinational

companies owning pet food manufacturing companies is an ideal

relationship. The multinationals have increased bulk-purchasing

power; those that make human food products have a captive market in

which to capitalize on their waste products, and pet food divisions

have a more reliable capital base and, in many cases, a convenient

source of ingredients.

There are hundreds of different pet foods available in this country.

And while many of the foods on the market are similar, not all of

the pet food manufacturing companies use poor quality or potentially

dangerous ingredients.

=========================================

> Oh ya!!!

> DON'T feed your dog that brand!

> Caused severe diarrhea and horribly smelly stools. Poor dogs on

that

> stuff. Not nearly enough protein in there to maintain a healthy

dog.

> A healthy stool for a dog should be fairly dark in color, compact

and

> pretty tight. Those large light colored kinda soft stools mean

too much

> grains in the food.

>

> Carol in IL

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharyn

I am 100% with you on that one. I have 4 Dobermann's, and indeed have bred them for years.

Just one point, I put a teaspoon of dry seaweed in their food every day, keeps their coat in wonderful condition.

Kind regards

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: Sharyn Cerniglia

health

Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:47 PM

Subject: RE: raaw cHICKEN

I'm sorry to disagree with you, Carol, but this is just plain wrong. Dogs are NOT far from wild animals. At least, not DNA-wise. Their digestive systems and teeth are identical to wolves. They have the same scientific classification as wolves....canis lupis vs. canis lupis familiaris. What you are talking about with your cats is behavioral, not physical. They may not know what to do with a mouse, but believe me, their digestive systems would. I do have scientific abstracts and studies to back this up.

As for feeding "high quality food such as Eukanuba, Iams," ICK!!!! Have you ever read the ingredients?!?!? There is no nutrition in that food....they are comprised of grains, fillers, 3D meat (diseased, decayed and dead animals), more fillers, and cancerous toxins as preservatives. Talk about skimping on the protein -- look at the ingredients! If the first three ingredients aren't MEAT, the food is not optimal for your dog.

Sharyn